Blistering in new exterior paint
August 30, 2019 8:53 PM Subscribe
I had my house painted, and now it's blistering. Should the painter fix this, or is it just bad luck? How would you handle this?
The new paint has developed bubbles in a dozen places in the two weeks since painting finished. The bubbles are generally narrow and several feet long and situated along the tops of the siding boards. If I cut into the bubbles, I can easily peel away big leathery chunks of paint (photo). It's actually the old paint separating from the cedar siding (i.e., the new paint sticks to the old paint and they both peel off).
Spouse: Is angry and blames the painter; wants to withhold partial payment (about 20% of the total job) until fixed, or simply not finish paying them and apply the money towards fixing it ourselves or hiring someone else.
Painter: Contends this is not his fault, blames the old paint. But at the same time, his contract came with a warranty that covers "blistering" for three years. Now he says that it doesn't cover this kind of blistering, although that distinction was not made in the warranty. He has fixed some earlier bubbles, but framed it as doing me a favor. More have appeared since (imagine the photo above multiplied by 15).
Me: I lack the expertise to decide if this is bad luck or bad craftsmanship, and that distinction seems pretty important. I'm uncomfortable with withholding payment. I don't want to screw anybody, but I also don't want to get screwed.
Details of the paint job:
* Prep was just pressure washing. No scraping or sanding. This is what the painter proposed in his bid, and what I agreed to.
* Three coats of SW Emerald were applied. This is expensive, high-end paint. There was no primer because the painter said this paint includes primer.
* Weather during painting was dry, sunny, in the low 80's. The blistering is happening on both sunny and shady sides of the house.
* The old paint was worn, but not peeling or flaking.
The new paint has developed bubbles in a dozen places in the two weeks since painting finished. The bubbles are generally narrow and several feet long and situated along the tops of the siding boards. If I cut into the bubbles, I can easily peel away big leathery chunks of paint (photo). It's actually the old paint separating from the cedar siding (i.e., the new paint sticks to the old paint and they both peel off).
Spouse: Is angry and blames the painter; wants to withhold partial payment (about 20% of the total job) until fixed, or simply not finish paying them and apply the money towards fixing it ourselves or hiring someone else.
Painter: Contends this is not his fault, blames the old paint. But at the same time, his contract came with a warranty that covers "blistering" for three years. Now he says that it doesn't cover this kind of blistering, although that distinction was not made in the warranty. He has fixed some earlier bubbles, but framed it as doing me a favor. More have appeared since (imagine the photo above multiplied by 15).
Me: I lack the expertise to decide if this is bad luck or bad craftsmanship, and that distinction seems pretty important. I'm uncomfortable with withholding payment. I don't want to screw anybody, but I also don't want to get screwed.
Details of the paint job:
* Prep was just pressure washing. No scraping or sanding. This is what the painter proposed in his bid, and what I agreed to.
* Three coats of SW Emerald were applied. This is expensive, high-end paint. There was no primer because the painter said this paint includes primer.
* Weather during painting was dry, sunny, in the low 80's. The blistering is happening on both sunny and shady sides of the house.
* The old paint was worn, but not peeling or flaking.
Best answer: This is the painter's fault and they should provide rework. The painter should have known to use a proper (separate) primer, which would have sealed the old paint (which had likely become porus over time). The old paint absorbed the moisture from the fresh paint and then once the fresh paint dried the moisture below had nowhere to go except into the subsurface, causing swelling and eventually the separation of the old paint from the siding. This may have been compounded by the pressure washing if adequate time wasn't given for drying or if humidity levels were high before application.
It might help your cause to submit a warranty claim to SW for the blistering and at least get some free paint for the repair. Sherwin-Williams Lifetime Limited Warranty (PDF).
posted by mezzanayne at 9:18 PM on August 30, 2019 [14 favorites]
It might help your cause to submit a warranty claim to SW for the blistering and at least get some free paint for the repair. Sherwin-Williams Lifetime Limited Warranty (PDF).
posted by mezzanayne at 9:18 PM on August 30, 2019 [14 favorites]
Best answer: As someone who's painted a lot of houses, I'd assert that this is mostly the painter's fault. Although it sorta sounds like you agreed to conditions that were bound to result in a poor job (prepping wood siding properly is significantly more intensive than a pressure wash, we're talking scraping and sanding), they should have known and been able to tell you that it wasn't adequate.
I'm not surprised at all, but it sure sounds like they either didn't know how to deal with wood siding and assumed they did, or intentionally underbid to get the job, knowing that it really should be scraped and sanded.
It sounds like you are peeling off the bubbles? If so, quit it. Leave them as bubbles. You've got a warranty, make them do the work. If you're not going to be able, get someone else to do the work, and make sure they actually know how to paint real wood siding.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:19 PM on August 30, 2019 [7 favorites]
I'm not surprised at all, but it sure sounds like they either didn't know how to deal with wood siding and assumed they did, or intentionally underbid to get the job, knowing that it really should be scraped and sanded.
It sounds like you are peeling off the bubbles? If so, quit it. Leave them as bubbles. You've got a warranty, make them do the work. If you're not going to be able, get someone else to do the work, and make sure they actually know how to paint real wood siding.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:19 PM on August 30, 2019 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I don’t think you withholding payment is screwing him, he’s done a really bad job and I’d be mad. If he didn’t know how to do this job so it wouldn’t bubble, he shouldn’t have taken it on, so that’s on him. He’s not doing you a favour by fixing his shoddy work, it shouldn’t have been shoddy in the first place. I’d be getting him back in to fix it and you shouldn’t have to pay again for that.
posted by Jubey at 9:26 PM on August 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 9:26 PM on August 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Take pictures, lots of pictures. The painter should be a professional, and should have assessed the job, discussed any issues. Contract doesn't specify types of blistering. The painter should have known that more prep was needed. You may end up in small claims court, so you may want to run this by a lawyer before you withhold payment.
posted by theora55 at 11:10 PM on August 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 11:10 PM on August 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
Best answer: 28 years as a painting contractor and I see your type of issue quite frequently.
For us to establish a failure in your painters work we would need to see his layer of paint peeling, From the picture you provided this doesn't seem like the case. It is peeling back to the original coat on the siding.
Each layer you add to a painted surface you change how the underlying layers react. We call it a toxic sandwich. You could have a layer of oil paint, then a latex, then another oil and maybe another layer of latex. Each one of these move differently than the next which puts stresses on adjoining layers and in your case the wood surface itself. Oil/Alkyd moves slow and Acrylic moves faster as it heats or cools.
This constant back and forth exposes weaknesses between layers especially if the initial surface was poorly prepared. You may not have any further peeling or you may have more. This really depends on that initial coat on your siding.
Contrary to what you are hearing this isn't a condition he could have identified on an initial visit. Primer is not the issue either it is that first coat of whatever, could be stain,paint or primer, that was applied.
We would want to feather those edges, prime and top coat those spots and continue a fresh coat of paint to a break in the clapboard to improve the look. You do not want another layer of paint or primer over everything.
As painting contractors we want you to have a good experience and be proud of the look of your home. Identifying problems and coming up with solutions that are fair to both parties are important as well.
Lastly, sorry it's bee a long one, with a good condition substrate three coats of a high build paint like emerald would be excessive. Not in the sense that it would have changed your issue but the durability would not have been improved past two coats of paint.
Good luck and I hope you can resolve this. MeMail me if you have further questions.
posted by ashtray elvis at 3:16 AM on August 31, 2019 [23 favorites]
For us to establish a failure in your painters work we would need to see his layer of paint peeling, From the picture you provided this doesn't seem like the case. It is peeling back to the original coat on the siding.
Each layer you add to a painted surface you change how the underlying layers react. We call it a toxic sandwich. You could have a layer of oil paint, then a latex, then another oil and maybe another layer of latex. Each one of these move differently than the next which puts stresses on adjoining layers and in your case the wood surface itself. Oil/Alkyd moves slow and Acrylic moves faster as it heats or cools.
This constant back and forth exposes weaknesses between layers especially if the initial surface was poorly prepared. You may not have any further peeling or you may have more. This really depends on that initial coat on your siding.
Contrary to what you are hearing this isn't a condition he could have identified on an initial visit. Primer is not the issue either it is that first coat of whatever, could be stain,paint or primer, that was applied.
We would want to feather those edges, prime and top coat those spots and continue a fresh coat of paint to a break in the clapboard to improve the look. You do not want another layer of paint or primer over everything.
As painting contractors we want you to have a good experience and be proud of the look of your home. Identifying problems and coming up with solutions that are fair to both parties are important as well.
Lastly, sorry it's bee a long one, with a good condition substrate three coats of a high build paint like emerald would be excessive. Not in the sense that it would have changed your issue but the durability would not have been improved past two coats of paint.
Good luck and I hope you can resolve this. MeMail me if you have further questions.
posted by ashtray elvis at 3:16 AM on August 31, 2019 [23 favorites]
Best answer: Although it sorta sounds like you agreed to conditions that were bound to result in a poor job (prepping wood siding properly is significantly more intensive than a pressure wash, we're talking scraping and sanding), they should have known and been able to tell you that it wasn't adequate.
I think that's key. Although you did agree to something that was inadequate and could have led to, well, this, you had no way of knowing this. They should have told you what could have happened and that's on them.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 7:56 AM on August 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
I think that's key. Although you did agree to something that was inadequate and could have led to, well, this, you had no way of knowing this. They should have told you what could have happened and that's on them.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 7:56 AM on August 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
Best answer: How long after pressure washing (driving water into the wood) did they apply the water based paint?
We see this all the time in my area. Painter pressure washes, waits not long enough, applies paint, sun hits building and causes water in wood to turn into vapor, pushing paint off.
And integral primer paint? Just no. Primer has a specific job to do, bond to the substrate and provide a good surface for the top coat. Top coats then protect the primer and seal the surface . Pouring both into one bucket leaves something that does a halfway job on both tasks.
posted by rudd135 at 10:59 AM on August 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
We see this all the time in my area. Painter pressure washes, waits not long enough, applies paint, sun hits building and causes water in wood to turn into vapor, pushing paint off.
And integral primer paint? Just no. Primer has a specific job to do, bond to the substrate and provide a good surface for the top coat. Top coats then protect the primer and seal the surface . Pouring both into one bucket leaves something that does a halfway job on both tasks.
posted by rudd135 at 10:59 AM on August 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
I wondered about the time between pressure washing and painting too. Very common around here also.
posted by fshgrl at 2:10 PM on August 31, 2019
posted by fshgrl at 2:10 PM on August 31, 2019
Response by poster: Time between pressure washing and painting was at least a day for the affected areas, and the weather was in the 80’s and low humidity. Weirdly, the section of the house painted first after washing doesn’t have this problem.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:14 AM on September 1, 2019
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:14 AM on September 1, 2019
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posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 8:57 PM on August 30, 2019