IB diploma
March 1, 2006 6:29 PM Subscribe
Should I finish getting an IB diploma, or would I be ok with a whole bunch of certificates?
I'm a junior, and as of now a diploma candidate. Despite what my counsellors (who seem to think that everyone needs an IB diploma) say, I'm beginning to think that I'd be better off without it for several reasons.
1: I've heard from a number of sources that IBH Math is not much harder than pre-calculus. Does anyone with experience taking/teaching IBH math know how true this is? I've asked some math teachers and they all danced around my question and judging from previous math-related suggestions I've received from my counsellor, I don't think she knows. I currently have an A in BC calculus (the harder AP class, equivalent to a year of college calculus) and I'm looking in to taking another calculus class (either at a community college or through some sort of distance learning program) instead.
2: I really want to take IB physics. I'm taking IBH chemistry for my science and IBH computer science for my elective, neither of which I want to drop. There's no way for me to take physics and get a diploma from Virginia and get an IB Diploma, because I can only take 7 classes. If I decide to give up on the IB diploma, I could drop either Spanish (This is my 4th year) or theory of knowledge. My school has broken up TOK so that you take it 2nd semester junior year and 1st semester senior year, which means that you essentially lose the opportunity to take a year long class.
Sorry this is kind of long, it's something I've already put a lot of thought into. Can anyone think of any more reasons why I should or shouldn't go for a full IB diploma?
I'm a junior, and as of now a diploma candidate. Despite what my counsellors (who seem to think that everyone needs an IB diploma) say, I'm beginning to think that I'd be better off without it for several reasons.
1: I've heard from a number of sources that IBH Math is not much harder than pre-calculus. Does anyone with experience taking/teaching IBH math know how true this is? I've asked some math teachers and they all danced around my question and judging from previous math-related suggestions I've received from my counsellor, I don't think she knows. I currently have an A in BC calculus (the harder AP class, equivalent to a year of college calculus) and I'm looking in to taking another calculus class (either at a community college or through some sort of distance learning program) instead.
2: I really want to take IB physics. I'm taking IBH chemistry for my science and IBH computer science for my elective, neither of which I want to drop. There's no way for me to take physics and get a diploma from Virginia and get an IB Diploma, because I can only take 7 classes. If I decide to give up on the IB diploma, I could drop either Spanish (This is my 4th year) or theory of knowledge. My school has broken up TOK so that you take it 2nd semester junior year and 1st semester senior year, which means that you essentially lose the opportunity to take a year long class.
Sorry this is kind of long, it's something I've already put a lot of thought into. Can anyone think of any more reasons why I should or shouldn't go for a full IB diploma?
I recieved the IB diploma last year.
It is by no means worth it unless you're applying to schools internationally. College credit is the only thing the IB diploma is good for. The school and your counselor only want you to stay in the program because they get more money.
I would not hesitate dropping TOK. The curriculum is absolutely ridiculous.
Have you done the extended essay or CAS documentation yet?
posted by mr.dan at 6:48 PM on March 1, 2006
It is by no means worth it unless you're applying to schools internationally. College credit is the only thing the IB diploma is good for. The school and your counselor only want you to stay in the program because they get more money.
I would not hesitate dropping TOK. The curriculum is absolutely ridiculous.
Have you done the extended essay or CAS documentation yet?
posted by mr.dan at 6:48 PM on March 1, 2006
By taking a regular program (and opting into AP courses when you want), you'll have the time and energy to devote to mastering courses, volunteering, having a social life, and working part-time to save for college. Also, if you take the AP courses and then *don't* use them in college, you can take some first year courses that you know you're going to get an A in. This will give you a solid GPA foundation, helping you maintain or acquire scholarship status. You can then focus on adjusting to college life or even have a part-time job. Sure, AP courses may save you on college credit, but could you also make money from easy courses and time to work at a job? I found that scholarships and part-time work more than offset this. I have never wished that I'd done IB or transferred the AP courses to my university. YMMV.
posted by acoutu at 6:59 PM on March 1, 2006
posted by acoutu at 6:59 PM on March 1, 2006
College credit is the only thing the IB diploma is good for.
Do the colleges you'll be applying to give you college credit for IB classes? Some don't.
posted by clarahamster at 7:00 PM on March 1, 2006
Do the colleges you'll be applying to give you college credit for IB classes? Some don't.
posted by clarahamster at 7:00 PM on March 1, 2006
You won't get the opportunity to do it again if you ever regret it. *that is all*
posted by mhuckaba at 7:03 PM on March 1, 2006
posted by mhuckaba at 7:03 PM on March 1, 2006
I am currently on an "elite" university admissions committee reading applications (this is not my normal job, I got roped in). We are regularly one of the top 10 most selective universities in the US. I can tell you that we do notice the IB diploma. But we also notice good AP scores, particularly in the area you are applying when they are accompanied by a strong rec from the teacher. So I would do what you want to, then take a moment to explain the decision you made in an accompanying letter when you apply to colleges. It is your life, do what you want to do with it, not what you think schools expect you to do.
posted by procrastination at 7:04 PM on March 1, 2006
posted by procrastination at 7:04 PM on March 1, 2006
Response by poster: Unles you're going for the elite of the elite colleges I want to apply to MIT, but wouldn't they rather see more math and science than what is essentially a liberal arts program?
My motives for not doing the IB diploma are to make my schedule harder, with more math, not easier but I'm worried people (college admissions officers) will see that I don't have the diploma and think I slacked off.
Half a quarter into TOK and I like it, and I'd be torn between dropping Spanish, which is useful and I will probably take at least a year of in college and dropping TOK, which is fun.
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 7:06 PM on March 1, 2006
My motives for not doing the IB diploma are to make my schedule harder, with more math, not easier but I'm worried people (college admissions officers) will see that I don't have the diploma and think I slacked off.
Half a quarter into TOK and I like it, and I'd be torn between dropping Spanish, which is useful and I will probably take at least a year of in college and dropping TOK, which is fun.
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 7:06 PM on March 1, 2006
Response by poster: mr. dan- which IB math class did you take? From what I've heard, none of them are particularly worthwhile to a really serious math student. Is that true?
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 7:25 PM on March 1, 2006
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 7:25 PM on March 1, 2006
MIT? Take more math. Either linear algebra or a formal introduction to analysis would be good, I think. If you're going outside of your school to get extra coursework, it's not going to look like you slacked off. And take a calculus-based physics class.
posted by mr_roboto at 7:57 PM on March 1, 2006
posted by mr_roboto at 7:57 PM on March 1, 2006
I want to apply to MIT, but wouldn't they rather see more math and science than what is essentially a liberal arts program?
MIT has slightly more of a business focus than some tech schools so they might like to see a liberal arts program on your record, though you should also have a strong math/science background. The appropriate balance probably depends on your intended major. If you contact the admissions department, they can probably give you some more specific guidance.
If you're currently taking BC calc, i'd second the advice to consider taking linear algebra. Even if you end up taking it again in college, it's something you want a really solid foundation in, 'cause it's going to come up again and again in math and physics. Plus, it's fun. :)
posted by clarahamster at 8:05 PM on March 1, 2006
MIT has slightly more of a business focus than some tech schools so they might like to see a liberal arts program on your record, though you should also have a strong math/science background. The appropriate balance probably depends on your intended major. If you contact the admissions department, they can probably give you some more specific guidance.
If you're currently taking BC calc, i'd second the advice to consider taking linear algebra. Even if you end up taking it again in college, it's something you want a really solid foundation in, 'cause it's going to come up again and again in math and physics. Plus, it's fun. :)
posted by clarahamster at 8:05 PM on March 1, 2006
I took Math Methods SL, and it was alright. At my school it was approximately equal to AB Calc plus some Stat. My math teacher taught Math HL previously and said it was pretty close to BC. So take that for what it's worth.
I got the diploma, but honestly, it didn't mean anything for college. Exam scores helped with getting credit, of course, but the diploma itself didn't come out until July, after all US universities make their decisions. So, as a friend of mine's older sister put it, "It's a nice piece of paper". Which it is, but (though I hate to say it) it might be better for you to take the classes you want to take.
FWIW, though, I'd keep TOK. You like it and I know I learned a lot. So stick with it. Can you clarify for me exactly what your diploma subjects are? Am I right to assume that the only problem you have is that you want to take calc rather than Math HL?
posted by SuperNova at 8:17 PM on March 1, 2006
I got the diploma, but honestly, it didn't mean anything for college. Exam scores helped with getting credit, of course, but the diploma itself didn't come out until July, after all US universities make their decisions. So, as a friend of mine's older sister put it, "It's a nice piece of paper". Which it is, but (though I hate to say it) it might be better for you to take the classes you want to take.
FWIW, though, I'd keep TOK. You like it and I know I learned a lot. So stick with it. Can you clarify for me exactly what your diploma subjects are? Am I right to assume that the only problem you have is that you want to take calc rather than Math HL?
posted by SuperNova at 8:17 PM on March 1, 2006
my sister did the full IB diploma at Mira Loma (in Sacramento) when we were growing up. She went to Reed College in Oregon, and they gave her enough credit that she ended up spending her junior year fucking around in South America.
I took a partial IB diploma (passed the english and some others -- was mostly too busy screwing around to take it seriously) and it allowed me to skip the dumbass intro classes at Berkeley (which was nice, because I would've hated to waste time in them -- I was able to waste my time failing other courses due to lack of effort).
My take? It's a little more challenging than AP courses, and you're definitely going to learn more and have more fun (IMHO). Plus, if you can trade buckling down when you're in HS and aren't really that independent, I'd say it's worth it to skip some courses later when you're in college and can really fuck off. Additionally, you'll be well prepared for college exams AND, if you want to save some money on college by not paying tution for a year, well -- it's a good bet (knew another grad who took a year at a JC in sac, then transferred to berkeley as a Junior, graduating in three years and saving some 16,000 dollars).
However, you will want to consider what others have said -- if the college you want to go to isn't going to give you credit for it, then that might mitigate its "pratical" value. Still, why shoot any lower when you are offered a more complete education?*
* that's how i feel now. I guess back in the day I would've rather been in classes with the people I was hanging out with, rather than the IB kids. It is a little separated, as far as HS culture goes.
that said, word up fellow IB kids. I haven't heard from IB for quite some time.
posted by fishfucker at 8:32 PM on March 1, 2006
I took a partial IB diploma (passed the english and some others -- was mostly too busy screwing around to take it seriously) and it allowed me to skip the dumbass intro classes at Berkeley (which was nice, because I would've hated to waste time in them -- I was able to waste my time failing other courses due to lack of effort).
My take? It's a little more challenging than AP courses, and you're definitely going to learn more and have more fun (IMHO). Plus, if you can trade buckling down when you're in HS and aren't really that independent, I'd say it's worth it to skip some courses later when you're in college and can really fuck off. Additionally, you'll be well prepared for college exams AND, if you want to save some money on college by not paying tution for a year, well -- it's a good bet (knew another grad who took a year at a JC in sac, then transferred to berkeley as a Junior, graduating in three years and saving some 16,000 dollars).
However, you will want to consider what others have said -- if the college you want to go to isn't going to give you credit for it, then that might mitigate its "pratical" value. Still, why shoot any lower when you are offered a more complete education?*
* that's how i feel now. I guess back in the day I would've rather been in classes with the people I was hanging out with, rather than the IB kids. It is a little separated, as far as HS culture goes.
that said, word up fellow IB kids. I haven't heard from IB for quite some time.
posted by fishfucker at 8:32 PM on March 1, 2006
Addendum after I actually read your question:
do NOT miss TOK. TOK is rad. It is one of the classes (along with Anthro) that IB offers which you usually don't see in HS. and just like anthro, after taking it, everyone wanted to major in philosophy (and that pipe-dream cost me a few semesters at college, albeit early ones, so maybe you should get the "OMG PHILOSOPHY IS RAD" bug out early).
posted by fishfucker at 8:34 PM on March 1, 2006
do NOT miss TOK. TOK is rad. It is one of the classes (along with Anthro) that IB offers which you usually don't see in HS. and just like anthro, after taking it, everyone wanted to major in philosophy (and that pipe-dream cost me a few semesters at college, albeit early ones, so maybe you should get the "OMG PHILOSOPHY IS RAD" bug out early).
posted by fishfucker at 8:34 PM on March 1, 2006
IB Math is completely and utterly uncomparable to AP math.
Here is my take on it, having taken both and known numerous people who have done so before me (and dropped the IB side):
IBH explores a bunch of interesting mathematics topics that are commonly taught in european secondary schools. Off the top of my head I remember statistics, matricies, trigonometry (not that much different from pre-calc), introduction to sets, graph theory related things. This varies of course, because your teacher has some choice in the curriculum. It does not however treat calculus in any substantial way (it certainly won't teach you anything if you are taking BC now), giving a brief introduction to the methods of differential calc (really simple... basic polynomials) and the concept of integral calculus. It will be a breeze if you are doing well in BC calc (I should be studying right now!)
IB is a joke as far as math and science goes. None of the science courses are calculus based, which is espescially tragic for physics.
posted by phrontist at 9:02 PM on March 1, 2006
Here is my take on it, having taken both and known numerous people who have done so before me (and dropped the IB side):
IBH explores a bunch of interesting mathematics topics that are commonly taught in european secondary schools. Off the top of my head I remember statistics, matricies, trigonometry (not that much different from pre-calc), introduction to sets, graph theory related things. This varies of course, because your teacher has some choice in the curriculum. It does not however treat calculus in any substantial way (it certainly won't teach you anything if you are taking BC now), giving a brief introduction to the methods of differential calc (really simple... basic polynomials) and the concept of integral calculus. It will be a breeze if you are doing well in BC calc (I should be studying right now!)
IB is a joke as far as math and science goes. None of the science courses are calculus based, which is espescially tragic for physics.
posted by phrontist at 9:02 PM on March 1, 2006
Oh, and unless you go to school outside the states it's almost certain that you won't get any credit in college for IB. I'd say less that 10% of IB students graduating from my school (one of the oldest IB schools in the country, and all the worse off for it) got any sort of credit.
posted by phrontist at 9:05 PM on March 1, 2006
posted by phrontist at 9:05 PM on March 1, 2006
phrontist -- My experience has been quite different from yours. As I said, I took Methods SL, and at my school it was very similar to (while still substantially different from) AP. Examples: One of my good friends took IB, made like a 6, then took an AP to get college credit (neither Math SL ever getting anything) and made either a 4 or a 5. Another friend took AP Stat, used that to help on the IB, and made much higher than anyone would have expected on the latter. If it matters, we did only SL Maths at our school, and spread them out over two years.
Also, where in the states did y'all not get credit for IB? If it was awhile ago, I can see it, but now most places do give credit, even if it sometimes seems like it's less than AP would have gotten. Out of my class, I doubt anyone (who had the scores, of course, which was a good many) didn't get credit for at least English or History HL. I know I certainly did.
posted by SuperNova at 11:14 PM on March 1, 2006
Also, where in the states did y'all not get credit for IB? If it was awhile ago, I can see it, but now most places do give credit, even if it sometimes seems like it's less than AP would have gotten. Out of my class, I doubt anyone (who had the scores, of course, which was a good many) didn't get credit for at least English or History HL. I know I certainly did.
posted by SuperNova at 11:14 PM on March 1, 2006
I got the IB diploma and it only counted for credits as individual tests. I got it the diploma mostly as a "Why not?" idea, and though I didn't get much out of it besides a cheap watch and a resume line, I don't regret taking any of the classes. In my case, I was already taking all of the classes and tests, so a few extra papers didn't hurt.
I do not know a single person who failed to get credit for their IB courses. Again, earning the diploma does not earn extra credit; it only came from the tests themselves.
My school offered calculus as an IB/AP course; by the end of the first year you were prepared for the IB standard level test and the AP AB calc test, and by the end of the second year you were prepared for the IB Higher level test and the AP BC test. This actually worked surprisingly well and taught us a good deal about the equivalency to AP curriculum--those who tested for IB in Pre-Cal, for example, took just the AP course. The IB/AP class was accelerated in that it also covered additional topics like statistics and probability.
Our teacher explained that the tests for calculus range in difficulty from low to high in this order:
IB Standard Level
AP AB
(small gap)
AP BC
(larger gap)
IB Higher Level
So if you're doing well in AP BC, take the IB test if you're looking to explore some additional topics and want to delve deeper into a few of the AP topics. It gives you a broader range of math knowledge.
Oh, and I personally adored my TOK class (mostly because the teacher was one of those fantastically soul-inspiring types that teaches you to look at the world anew). Find out about the teacher-- it can be a cut and dry dull philosophy course or a complete mind bender.
posted by cynthia_rose at 12:17 AM on March 2, 2006
I do not know a single person who failed to get credit for their IB courses. Again, earning the diploma does not earn extra credit; it only came from the tests themselves.
My school offered calculus as an IB/AP course; by the end of the first year you were prepared for the IB standard level test and the AP AB calc test, and by the end of the second year you were prepared for the IB Higher level test and the AP BC test. This actually worked surprisingly well and taught us a good deal about the equivalency to AP curriculum--those who tested for IB in Pre-Cal, for example, took just the AP course. The IB/AP class was accelerated in that it also covered additional topics like statistics and probability.
Our teacher explained that the tests for calculus range in difficulty from low to high in this order:
IB Standard Level
AP AB
(small gap)
AP BC
(larger gap)
IB Higher Level
So if you're doing well in AP BC, take the IB test if you're looking to explore some additional topics and want to delve deeper into a few of the AP topics. It gives you a broader range of math knowledge.
Oh, and I personally adored my TOK class (mostly because the teacher was one of those fantastically soul-inspiring types that teaches you to look at the world anew). Find out about the teacher-- it can be a cut and dry dull philosophy course or a complete mind bender.
posted by cynthia_rose at 12:17 AM on March 2, 2006
I took Studies SL because I could get an easy A and still get the diploma. I used the SATII to get college credit for calculus instead, and it looked better on my engineering application.
Nobody at the engineering dept. at my school has ever heard of IB. They all think very highly of AP though.
Also, I guess TOK is truly what your teacher makes it. For me it wasn't very good, mainly because the other students in my class couldn't get past square one so we never had an opportunity to do any higher level thinking.
I still maintain that the IB diploma has relatively little value and that you should not even bother with it.
posted by mr.dan at 12:25 AM on March 2, 2006
Nobody at the engineering dept. at my school has ever heard of IB. They all think very highly of AP though.
Also, I guess TOK is truly what your teacher makes it. For me it wasn't very good, mainly because the other students in my class couldn't get past square one so we never had an opportunity to do any higher level thinking.
I still maintain that the IB diploma has relatively little value and that you should not even bother with it.
posted by mr.dan at 12:25 AM on March 2, 2006
Response by poster: Am I right to assume that the only problem you have is that you want to take calc rather than Math HL?
Basically, and physics instead of Spanish, but the math is what will make it worth not getting the diploma. I would drop the social studies class but my schedule got messed up and I have to take 11th grade American next year or I can't graduate at all.
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 4:09 AM on March 2, 2006
Basically, and physics instead of Spanish, but the math is what will make it worth not getting the diploma. I would drop the social studies class but my schedule got messed up and I have to take 11th grade American next year or I can't graduate at all.
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 4:09 AM on March 2, 2006
I going to be a lone voice and say skip ToK. To echo mr.dan, unless you know that the teacher will be incredible, it's a pretty useless class. My college accepts IB credit, but you need a 6 or a 7 for most (all?) subjects. From experience, I think stressing to get the diploma is a waste of time. Better to take the classes you're most interested in and score highly on those tests.
Good luck!!
IB 4 LIFE, PLAYAZ
posted by youarenothere at 6:30 AM on March 2, 2006
Good luck!!
IB 4 LIFE, PLAYAZ
posted by youarenothere at 6:30 AM on March 2, 2006
yeah, I guess if it's a question between getting the diploma and taking different courses -- well, might as well take the courses you want to take, because most credits are course-based. You've already taken enough foreign language to probably skip it at most schools (i'd check first, of course), so why not take some of the other IB courses?
posted by fishfucker at 12:02 PM on March 2, 2006
posted by fishfucker at 12:02 PM on March 2, 2006
I dropped out of IB a third of the way through my senior year. The workload was ridiculous for high school, although the tests were fun (I got a 7 in English (hah!)). While I eventually wound up matriculating at an art school, making the whole thing rather pointless, I heard a lot from friends.
The general consensus was that it wasn't worth the work they did. I guess it might make a difference at a crazy-competitive school like MIT, but people didn't seem to think it made any impact on their admissions; most schools had never heard of the program. The schools who had heard of it, really only cared about it for college credit. Those who gave credit gave precious little. You're talking maybe 3 credits per course they accept, and each school seems to accept a random selection of classes.
What it's really nice for is getting you out of a few of the initial jerkoff freshman classes. They're terribly aggravating, honestly.
posted by Netzapper at 9:04 PM on March 2, 2006
The general consensus was that it wasn't worth the work they did. I guess it might make a difference at a crazy-competitive school like MIT, but people didn't seem to think it made any impact on their admissions; most schools had never heard of the program. The schools who had heard of it, really only cared about it for college credit. Those who gave credit gave precious little. You're talking maybe 3 credits per course they accept, and each school seems to accept a random selection of classes.
What it's really nice for is getting you out of a few of the initial jerkoff freshman classes. They're terribly aggravating, honestly.
posted by Netzapper at 9:04 PM on March 2, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by lychee at 6:38 PM on March 1, 2006