Cheap unsafe neighborhood vs expensive safeish neighborhood. Do I jump?
March 27, 2019 10:42 PM Subscribe
How do I make this decision? What made you decide to stay or leave?
I'm living in a not-very-safe, not-very-walkable part of Richmond, California (the city, not the San Francisco neighborhood) and I'm tired of it. So far, nothing has actually happened directly to me, but I'm worried that it's only a matter of time. For instance, while standing in the backyard on one of the fireworks holidays a stray bullet fell out of the sky and hit my friend in an extremity; if it had hit his head, it could have had life-altering consequences. I can hear people doing donuts on an adjacent street, which freaks me out, but I've been told this is nothing to worry about. A neighbor's house burned down, but it was across the street and we were not in danger. And so on. I finally got up the nerve to look at a crime map of the area recently and it was Not Good. But I rarely even see people on the street around here.
I'm generally not dealing with people wandering around screaming, or hearing gunshots, or seeing drug deals or sex work on the street (that I can tell). In other words, the hip neighborhoods I lived in before likely experienced a lot more crime. Nothing resembling a house break-in has ever occurred, going back at least eight years. I've heard that cars are frequently rifled around here, but that's never happened to me either. Yet. Most of the neighbors are friendly and law-abiding except for one house of young white men who somehow got a noise permit to perform extremely loud music at a volume you can hear down the street.
The landlord is semi-responsive, but performs repairs themselves and not up to code. The fire alarms they installed completely stopped working after a few months. I don't even know how that's possible.
What's keeping me here? The rent is below market and we have a lot of space, and both are luxuries in the Bay Area. Everything mostly works.
I've been offered a spot in Berkeley, CA that's on a quiet street but nevertheless close to everything I need. Crucially, it's close to work. My current commute would probably be enviable to many, but it's still working out to at least an hour a day total. Moving to Berkeley would make it a pleasant 15-minute stroll. But I have lived there and it also has its share of property crimes.
What made you decide to leave an unpleasant but affordable neighborhood, or why did you stay? Anything I'm not thinking of?
I'm living in a not-very-safe, not-very-walkable part of Richmond, California (the city, not the San Francisco neighborhood) and I'm tired of it. So far, nothing has actually happened directly to me, but I'm worried that it's only a matter of time. For instance, while standing in the backyard on one of the fireworks holidays a stray bullet fell out of the sky and hit my friend in an extremity; if it had hit his head, it could have had life-altering consequences. I can hear people doing donuts on an adjacent street, which freaks me out, but I've been told this is nothing to worry about. A neighbor's house burned down, but it was across the street and we were not in danger. And so on. I finally got up the nerve to look at a crime map of the area recently and it was Not Good. But I rarely even see people on the street around here.
I'm generally not dealing with people wandering around screaming, or hearing gunshots, or seeing drug deals or sex work on the street (that I can tell). In other words, the hip neighborhoods I lived in before likely experienced a lot more crime. Nothing resembling a house break-in has ever occurred, going back at least eight years. I've heard that cars are frequently rifled around here, but that's never happened to me either. Yet. Most of the neighbors are friendly and law-abiding except for one house of young white men who somehow got a noise permit to perform extremely loud music at a volume you can hear down the street.
The landlord is semi-responsive, but performs repairs themselves and not up to code. The fire alarms they installed completely stopped working after a few months. I don't even know how that's possible.
What's keeping me here? The rent is below market and we have a lot of space, and both are luxuries in the Bay Area. Everything mostly works.
I've been offered a spot in Berkeley, CA that's on a quiet street but nevertheless close to everything I need. Crucially, it's close to work. My current commute would probably be enviable to many, but it's still working out to at least an hour a day total. Moving to Berkeley would make it a pleasant 15-minute stroll. But I have lived there and it also has its share of property crimes.
What made you decide to leave an unpleasant but affordable neighborhood, or why did you stay? Anything I'm not thinking of?
I've been offered a spot in Berkeley, CA that's on a quiet street but nevertheless close to everything I need. Crucially, it's close to work.
Do it. I could elaborate but if you're asking, just do it. IT'S CLOSE TO WORK. Living close to work makes a difference. It will pay for itself in productivity. If you count the time you commute to work, you'd essentially be giving yourself a raise. Plus, it sounds so nice, etcetera. Do it.
posted by karmachameleon at 11:16 PM on March 27, 2019 [39 favorites]
Do it. I could elaborate but if you're asking, just do it. IT'S CLOSE TO WORK. Living close to work makes a difference. It will pay for itself in productivity. If you count the time you commute to work, you'd essentially be giving yourself a raise. Plus, it sounds so nice, etcetera. Do it.
posted by karmachameleon at 11:16 PM on March 27, 2019 [39 favorites]
it sounds like it's not the crime that's bugging you so much as the noise (and random bullets).
go for the quiet neighborhood. less stress.
(i'm in the east bay too. if you pm me the specific neighborhoods i can give you a more detailed analysis of nbhd a vs nbhd b)
posted by zippy at 12:25 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
go for the quiet neighborhood. less stress.
(i'm in the east bay too. if you pm me the specific neighborhoods i can give you a more detailed analysis of nbhd a vs nbhd b)
posted by zippy at 12:25 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
Being close to work is a huge plus for me. That means that I get to claw back free time every weekday and weekends will probably also be more fun locally considering all the options in the area. Move! You can always move back to Richmond if you regret it.
posted by quince at 12:33 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by quince at 12:33 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
When it comes to quality-of-life, US surveys inevitably show that people who live closer to work are much happier. You may eventually be priced out of Berkeley, as so many people have been, but if you can afford it now you should absolutely, totally, no-fooling move. Please note: Berkley is far from crime-free. But you will be closer to work, and within walkable distance of things, and that will make you much happier.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:38 AM on March 28, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 3:38 AM on March 28, 2019 [13 favorites]
If you can afford the place in Berkeley, move. A short commute is a godsend; walking to work is also better for your health and the Earth's health.
Definition of affordable may vary. Standard advice is rent/mortgage should be 30% of take-home income, but I've willingly spent a bit more on rent and been frugal in other areas.
posted by basalganglia at 3:45 AM on March 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
Definition of affordable may vary. Standard advice is rent/mortgage should be 30% of take-home income, but I've willingly spent a bit more on rent and been frugal in other areas.
posted by basalganglia at 3:45 AM on March 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
You sound creeped out just being at home, and what everyone else said about work. '
Standard advice is rent/mortgage should be 30% of take-home income, but I've willingly spent a bit more on rent and been frugal in other areas.
Not really a thing in the Bay Area or the populated areas of NorCal. I've never paid 30% in my life for rent.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:44 AM on March 28, 2019 [8 favorites]
Standard advice is rent/mortgage should be 30% of take-home income, but I've willingly spent a bit more on rent and been frugal in other areas.
Not really a thing in the Bay Area or the populated areas of NorCal. I've never paid 30% in my life for rent.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:44 AM on March 28, 2019 [8 favorites]
This seems like a no brainer--you don't like Richmond, you'd be moving to a nicer area (though be aware that Berkeley is not uniformly nice), the commute is way shorter. The risk is that you'll get priced out of Berkeley in a year or two. Investigating what sort of rent regulation the new place is subject to (if any) is probably your best way to assess that risk, as well as talking to the future roommates (this sounds like a roommate situation) what the history of rent increases has been like.
posted by hoyland at 5:58 AM on March 28, 2019
posted by hoyland at 5:58 AM on March 28, 2019
Honestly, I'd move for the commute alone. You can't get time back.
posted by spindrifter at 6:17 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by spindrifter at 6:17 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
Don't jump from the frying pan into another frying pan. Check out the roommates, make sure there are good house rules.
posted by theora55 at 7:12 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 7:12 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
WRT rent regulation, Berkeley actually has pretty good tenant regs about rent increases. I would move, too, just for proximity's sake.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 7:45 AM on March 28, 2019
posted by Lawn Beaver at 7:45 AM on March 28, 2019
25 years ago we were renting a two bedroom house for $300 per month. We also had a 2 year old. We noted that the local elementary school had a tall fence around it, with barbed wire. This, and the occasional burglary, convinced us that it was time to find a better place to live. Especially for the child's schools.
We ended up buying a small, old house in a good neighborhood. This house is on busy railroad tracks, and has needed lots of work over the years to keep it livable. Even so, the better schools, the more beautiful and peaceful neighborhood, the safe feeling while walking, and good nearby shopping have all made this a good choice for us. The cost to buy was considerable, but we had saved money while living cheap at the old place. We consider our move to be a good deal, overall.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 8:35 AM on March 28, 2019
We ended up buying a small, old house in a good neighborhood. This house is on busy railroad tracks, and has needed lots of work over the years to keep it livable. Even so, the better schools, the more beautiful and peaceful neighborhood, the safe feeling while walking, and good nearby shopping have all made this a good choice for us. The cost to buy was considerable, but we had saved money while living cheap at the old place. We consider our move to be a good deal, overall.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 8:35 AM on March 28, 2019
At one point, I had an about 45 minute commute (San Francisco to Oakland). Traffic wasn't especially bad, but still...45 minutes there, 45 minutes back, provided there was no jam-up.
Then a job popped up in SF, and I took it, and suddenly I was *so much* less stressed than I had been. I didn't even realize the commute was affecting me until I stopped doing it.
Provided the place in Berkeley has what you need, I'd jump on it, just for the decreased commute time.
posted by jasper411 at 9:05 AM on March 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
Then a job popped up in SF, and I took it, and suddenly I was *so much* less stressed than I had been. I didn't even realize the commute was affecting me until I stopped doing it.
Provided the place in Berkeley has what you need, I'd jump on it, just for the decreased commute time.
posted by jasper411 at 9:05 AM on March 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
Would your new place be rent controlled? If so, moving now would get you in at today's rent, not tomorrow's, potentially saving you some amount over what you'd have to pay when you finally did lose patience with Richmond and move.
posted by slidell at 9:18 AM on March 28, 2019
posted by slidell at 9:18 AM on March 28, 2019
It was the rats, mostly. The rats in the ceiling, the rats in the walls, the rats in the basement. More than the lack of heat, more than the drafty windows and broken lock, more than the absentee landlord and his once-murdered-a-guy-with-a-knife handyman.
It was cool and exciting and very very real but after a while you just want to feel secure, and you want a bagel place nearby and a store on the corner where everything isn't kept behind plexiglass. Ant there is nothing wrong with that! If you can afford it, you've earned it. Spend the money, that's what it's for. Living in a junky neighborhood, taking up space that some dumb punk 22-year-old just trying to get by could use, is doing nobody any favors, least of all you.
Move and enjoy it! You've earned it.
posted by Admiral Viceroy at 11:08 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
It was cool and exciting and very very real but after a while you just want to feel secure, and you want a bagel place nearby and a store on the corner where everything isn't kept behind plexiglass. Ant there is nothing wrong with that! If you can afford it, you've earned it. Spend the money, that's what it's for. Living in a junky neighborhood, taking up space that some dumb punk 22-year-old just trying to get by could use, is doing nobody any favors, least of all you.
Move and enjoy it! You've earned it.
posted by Admiral Viceroy at 11:08 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
"My current commute would probably be enviable to many, but it's still working out to at least an hour a day total. Moving to Berkeley would make it a pleasant 15-minute stroll."
Oof, I was leaning towards staying until this line. 15 minutes is the max any commute should ever take, anymore than that and you're just throwing your life away while also collecting massive undue amounts of stress and bad health. Move! An hour everyday thrown away on commute is inhumane, get thee a new home.
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:30 PM on March 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
Oof, I was leaning towards staying until this line. 15 minutes is the max any commute should ever take, anymore than that and you're just throwing your life away while also collecting massive undue amounts of stress and bad health. Move! An hour everyday thrown away on commute is inhumane, get thee a new home.
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:30 PM on March 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
Heh, facebook "on this day" showed me a memory from 2012 including the line "I need to get out of Inwood in the next year or two. It's killing my enjoyment of New York. Hold me to this." So that's how I felt about a boring and remote but cheap neighborhood after four years there.
posted by Smearcase at 1:52 PM on March 28, 2019
posted by Smearcase at 1:52 PM on March 28, 2019
FWIW, I'm another vote for jumping. A 15 minute commute gives you time back, and there's really no other way to get that.
And, personally, I've always paid a extra to ensure I'm in a safer area, but everyone has a different appetite for risk. Mine is low in this area.
posted by Citrus at 4:48 PM on March 28, 2019
And, personally, I've always paid a extra to ensure I'm in a safer area, but everyone has a different appetite for risk. Mine is low in this area.
posted by Citrus at 4:48 PM on March 28, 2019
I mean, do you find yourself less than willing to go out of the house because you don't feel comfortable in the neighborhood? Like, "oh I need to pop to the grocery store but it's after 7pm and there aren't very many commuters on the street" or "oh, let's go out of town for the 4th because I can't deal with the stress of a bullet possibly falling through the roof"?
If not, honestly, then I'd take a look at your bigger picture. What is cheaper rent helping you with? Are you saving for a down on a house? Do you need a new car? Does it help you afford insurance? Are you maxing your 401K? Do you have expensive hobbies (that you actively participate in - not "someday" hobbies)? Weigh all of those factors too. If you're still comfortable being in public in your neighborhood, you might it beneficial in the long run to stay.
But if your mental wellbeing truly is at stake, well, good mental health is priceless and you should make the move.
posted by vignettist at 8:46 PM on March 28, 2019
If not, honestly, then I'd take a look at your bigger picture. What is cheaper rent helping you with? Are you saving for a down on a house? Do you need a new car? Does it help you afford insurance? Are you maxing your 401K? Do you have expensive hobbies (that you actively participate in - not "someday" hobbies)? Weigh all of those factors too. If you're still comfortable being in public in your neighborhood, you might it beneficial in the long run to stay.
But if your mental wellbeing truly is at stake, well, good mental health is priceless and you should make the move.
posted by vignettist at 8:46 PM on March 28, 2019
I think it depends on whether you can afford market rent in a nicer place (and for how long) and what you are doing with the extra money now. FWIW I would move. You sound uncomfortable in your own home and you shouldn’t have to feel like that.
posted by plonkee at 12:24 AM on March 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by plonkee at 12:24 AM on March 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for the perspective, Smearcase. I also don't want to live in the Bay Area anymore, but I do like my job here so I'm tied down for now.
Fortunately, we don't have any problems with vermin in this house. In fact, before moving here I lived in one of the more affluent neighborhoods of Berkeley in terrible conditions, under the worst and most entitled landlord I've ever encountered. I'm aware that there's little incentive to maintain property in Berkeley while tenants are present.
My current house and the prospective house are single-family homes, so neither are protected from rent increases. I only moved here because the rent was incredibly low previously; it's jumped 25% since I moved in, but that still leaves it below market.
I have stopped walking around outside since I moved here; all transit is by car or bike, or using the car or bike to get to BART, and it's definitely affecting my mental health. I can't even tell you if the stores around here keep things behind plexiglass, because I still do most of my shopping in Berkeley. The nearest big chain grocery store definitely has an armed security guard stationed conspicuously near the entrance.
It looks like nearly everyone agrees: Move! Thanks for helping me feel better about this big decision.
posted by ziggly at 3:28 PM on March 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
Fortunately, we don't have any problems with vermin in this house. In fact, before moving here I lived in one of the more affluent neighborhoods of Berkeley in terrible conditions, under the worst and most entitled landlord I've ever encountered. I'm aware that there's little incentive to maintain property in Berkeley while tenants are present.
My current house and the prospective house are single-family homes, so neither are protected from rent increases. I only moved here because the rent was incredibly low previously; it's jumped 25% since I moved in, but that still leaves it below market.
I have stopped walking around outside since I moved here; all transit is by car or bike, or using the car or bike to get to BART, and it's definitely affecting my mental health. I can't even tell you if the stores around here keep things behind plexiglass, because I still do most of my shopping in Berkeley. The nearest big chain grocery store definitely has an armed security guard stationed conspicuously near the entrance.
It looks like nearly everyone agrees: Move! Thanks for helping me feel better about this big decision.
posted by ziggly at 3:28 PM on March 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
An hour everyday thrown away on a commute is inhumane, get thee a new home.
Financially, what is your time worth? If you're commuting an hour a day, multiply that by your salary/hour. Would that help with financial feasibility? What's your stress-level worth? Think about the emotional advantages there...
posted by bendy at 4:02 PM on March 29, 2019
Financially, what is your time worth? If you're commuting an hour a day, multiply that by your salary/hour. Would that help with financial feasibility? What's your stress-level worth? Think about the emotional advantages there...
posted by bendy at 4:02 PM on March 29, 2019
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I’m in Richmond a lot for work and it seems stressful and devoid of charm, which may reflect some of my own class and cultural bias. Anyway I don’t really see the point of living in an otherwise purportedly* appealing metro area if the part you spend your leisure hours in is one that you perceive as not a good place to hang out. You go to work so you can pay for things you want, including living where you want, right? I’d move.
*Sorry, I hate the Bay Area but am trying to answer the question usefully.
posted by Smearcase at 11:07 PM on March 27, 2019 [2 favorites]