Help me understand this hippie/Libertarian term I heard?

March 7, 2019 11:19 AM

I was listening to people ahead of me in the coffee shop talk about how they got to Vermont. They were using terms like "The Glorious People's Republic of New York" and "The People's Democratic Republic of Massachusetts" and one more term I didn't understand (placed below the fold b/c of general offensiveness). Do you know what they meant?

They were all in their 20s-30s and were youngish hippie types (though it's so hard to tell in Vermont in the Winter) and one was telling the other two how he had to come to Vermont because New York State had made him a "paper cripple." I'm not sure what this mean or, honestly what it might mean. He went on to talk about how he had hobbies/activities that while "technically legal" might not soon be. I assumed maybe it was a weed thing but I am honestly baffled. Is this a term some group of people uses?

posted by jessamyn to Grab Bag (22 answers total)

Maybe he needed a medical marijuana card?
posted by amanda at 11:22 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]

Yeah, it sounds to me like he was concerned that he would lose access to medical marijuana, which he only had because he had something certifying him as having a medical need. Is there some sort of push in New York to tighten up eligibility? Or maybe a rumor that there will be?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:31 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]

I've often heard people describe a place they think of as too liberal as "The People's Republic of X" (like China is the PRC), or the "Democratic People's Republic of X" (like North Korea is the DPRK).

I've heard X as Massachusetts, California, Oregon, or even Maryland (I heard that one growing up in Virginia). I imagine almost every place with a more liberal neighbor has been described this way. Never heard of the other one though.
posted by skewed at 11:40 AM on March 7, 2019 [2 favorites]

I wonder if he meant that he was getting disability payments from New York State while not actually being disabled in reality, only on paper. And maybe the state was changing the rules so that he could no longer expect to be considered disabled if he was engaging in his hobbies/activities.

But the medical marijuana eligibility idea also makes sense.
posted by Redstart at 11:47 AM on March 7, 2019 [10 favorites]

I'm assuming the 'paper' bit means that he's technically a 'cripple' of some kind on paper, but may not actually be so. The 'technically legal' activities would mean those things which on their faces are OK, but wouldn't go over well.

So what kind of 'cripple' are we talking about? Insurance fraud? Welfare fraud? Disability? Parole? Could be anything.

(Or it could be a weed thing.)

[Or what redstart said]
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:50 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]

I've definitely never heard that term before, but based on the context I agree with the others that he seems to have been resentful about "needing" to obtain a bogus diagnosis in order to access legal weed. (How about just don't smoke it if it bugs you that much, brah?)

The extra weird part there is that NY State is talking about making recreational use and sales legal, so the situation there is unlikely to change for the worse any time soon.

The only other possibility is, as Redstart suggests, that he has some kind of profitable side-gig that he can't (legally) do because it would render him ineligible for disability payments. It wouldn't be out of character for a libertarian to complain about a government service that he himself benefits from directly, but OTOH I kind of doubt that eligibility rules for collecting disability are that different between NY and Vermont.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:55 AM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]

They were using terms like "The Glorious People's Republic of New York" and "The People's Democratic Republic of Massachusetts"

The ‘joke’ here is that these places are so liberal, and therefore so socialist, that they are actually communist.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 12:03 PM on March 7, 2019 [5 favorites]

Best answer: I think it might have to do with gun laws. I've seen:

"greetings comrades from the glorious peoples republic of new York. the registration deadline has come and gone, and now I'm a felon." (from a gun talk forum, about needing a permit for firearms in NYC, I think?)

and

"The dealer told me all I had to do was hand over my driver's license for an "Insta-Check." "They call this an Insta-Check, but really it takes about 15 minutes," she said, referring to the background check she would have to do. As long as I didn't have a criminal record or live in the "People's Republic of New York City," so called among gun dealers because it's one of the few cities where it is illegal to possess any kind of firearm without a permit, the gun would be mine. I told her I did live in New York City, but that my driver's license was issued in California. In that case, she said, I'd probably be fine.

and do you think he might have said "paper criminal" instead of "paper cripple"? Because I also noted this (in an article about Canadian firearms-related paperwork):

Implement a six-month grace period for individuals to renew their firearms licence without fear of becoming a "paper criminal."
posted by taz at 12:07 PM on March 7, 2019 [15 favorites]

Response by poster: The ‘joke’ here

Yeah and the confusing part of that to me is that from a Vermont perspective, these places are practically Republican. I just figured this was maybe a known term in circles other than the ones I travel in but perhaps not.
posted by jessamyn at 12:07 PM on March 7, 2019

Response by poster: Paper criminal is very promising!
posted by jessamyn at 12:10 PM on March 7, 2019

and do you think he might have said "paper criminal" instead of "paper cripple"?

Oh, that would make a lot of sense. I tried some web searches on the other term, and didn't get any hits. If it was common lingo, you'd think there would be at least a few.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:11 PM on March 7, 2019

Best answer: Yes, to me this sounds like a gun thing, not a marijuana thing. New York is generally becoming less restrictive around weed, not more so. There have been significant state-level gun control measures in New York under Cuomo and more have been passed this year with the newly-Democratic state legislature. There is widespread resentment of these laws in rural areas. (Even in 2019 "Repeal the SAFE Act" signs are by far the most common political sign in rural areas, outnumbering candidates' signs even during the height of election season—and the SAFE act was passed more than ten years ago now.) I know that Vermont is more progressive than New York in many ways but since it is an almost-entirely-rural state I would be surprised if its gun control policies are stricter than New York's.
posted by enn at 12:19 PM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]

Best answer: The fact that he said the People's Republic of New York and Massachusetts means this is almost undoubtedly a gun law thing. There are other lefty places on the east coast, but those are the two that have the most stringent gun laws. My bet is that one or the other of them is an extreme modder of AR-15s - it's kind of like this extreme sport for gun nerd dudes with too much money on their hands, where they tweak the platform like legos to make it as extreme as they can. Which would explain the 'paper criminal' thing.
posted by corb at 12:48 PM on March 7, 2019 [9 favorites]

I've heard this as a general leftist/"commie" thing, not specific to gun control. The first Google Books hit for "People's Republic of Massachusetts" is the first hit here, in 1987, in which a member of Congress says, "I would just say, Mr. Solomon, although many people have a hard time believing this fact, the State I represent is not called the People's Republic of Massachusetts. We do have the same kind of concerns that you have for the security of the country." So it appears that even 30 years ago, it was a well-known insult that suggested that Massachusetts citizens weren't "real" Americans.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:57 PM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]

...because it's one of the few cities where it is illegal to possess any kind of firearm without a permit...

"Few"? My knowledge of the subject is not comprehensive, but I think there are many cities in the US that require gun permits. If I'm not wrong, this sounds like gun-rights whining about their imaginary persecution.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:14 PM on March 7, 2019

This is definitely a gun law thing. I've heard these kinds of jokes about Massachusetts my whole life, Cambridge MA even has a bar called The People's Republic.
posted by cakelite at 2:17 PM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]

I've heard this as a general leftist/"commie" thing, not specific to gun control.

Yes, same here. I've definitely heard "People's Republic of Berkeley" more than once (Urban Dictionary has a listing for it too).
posted by JenMarie at 2:24 PM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]

At the risk of starting a derail...

Firearms laws vary widely between states, but state-level requirements for licensing or permits before owning or carrying a firearm are not particularly rare. There are only 15 states that have unrestricted concealed carry and 25 that have permissive open carry with no local restrictions (where "local restrictions" would mostly mean large cities have passed their own ordnances).

There are nine states which are considered "may-issue" concealed carry states, which means that local law enforcement in a prospective permit-holder's county or town of residence have to approve all issued permits, and in practice the law enforcement in most large cities will not issue a permit to anyone without some kind of employment-related reason to be carrying a firearm. New York State is one of these "may-issue" states. Some of the "shall-issue" states (i.e., permits are required, but everyone who meets the criteria gets one) allow licensing boards to reject a permit application on a case-by-case basis as well.

Where New York State is somewhat unique is that they completely forbid open carry of firearms. Only Florida, South Carolina, Illinois, California (mostly), and DC don't permit open carry at all. (New York permits the open carry of unloaded long guns... except in New York City.)

A lot of the hardcore gun people consider everything except unrestricted concealed and open carry to be tantamount to full Communism, though. Anyway, Vermont is indeed one of those so-called "constitutional carry" states.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:26 PM on March 7, 2019 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: OK this is very helpful. I am now certain that it was "paper criminal" which I would have heard if my hat hadn't been pulled SO FAR over my ears because it's 13˚ here. And I just somehow never equate hippie types with guns, though there's no reason why I shouldn't. Vermont does have very lax gun laws compared to our neighbors to the south and west and I can see being a gun toting hippie type and definitely wanting to be here and not there (as opposed to weed where MA is actually more progressive than Vermont, though Vermont's enforcement is probably fairly chill). Any other feedback, please do let me know but I think now I know what was being said.
posted by jessamyn at 5:25 PM on March 7, 2019 [3 favorites]

jessamyn: "...And I just somehow never equate hippie types with guns, though there's no reason why I shouldn't..."

Having lived in both upstate NY (Hamilton County - conservative) and Marin county (liberal) outside San Francisco, I would say never judge a book by its cover or never judge a gun owner by what they look like. My extremely liberal pot smoking hippy neighbors in Marin had all sorts of firearms. They were huge Deadheads. Neighbors up in the ADK are hunters, but would not own a semi-auto or a handgun if you gave it to them.

I have jumped through NY State gun licensing laws. I think these folks were talking about guns and gun laws.
posted by AugustWest at 7:56 PM on March 7, 2019 [1 favorite]

I just figured this was maybe a known term in circles other than the ones I travel

It is - I've heard the "People's Republic" joke apply to many places, but especially common in Cambridge, MA, and embedded in their local lore - you can buy a t-shirt. And that was long before reference to gun laws was this big a thing. It makes sense gun nuts would make use of it, but it isn't used exclusively in those circles - I've heard Cambridge residents laughingly use it to refer to themselves for at least a couple of decades.
posted by Miko at 4:42 AM on March 8, 2019 [1 favorite]

"People's Republic of San Francisco" (or Berkeley) and "People's Republic of California" are also common coinages. Used both negatively and sometimes affectionately.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:59 PM on March 8, 2019