Divorce / More Therapy / Expecting to much?

February 26, 2019 8:34 AM

Trying to figure out if my expectations are too high, if we should head back to therapy, or if it's just time for divorce?

Posting anon as my username is easily traceable back to me.

I'm wondering at what point do I admit that things will never change and file for divorce, try more therapy, or just realize my expectations are too high?

Some backstory:
TDLR; I've been with my wife for a bit over 10 years, married for the last 2 (both mid-late 30s). ALmost immediate dead bedroom and lots of fights regarding hours worked.

Without getting into too many details or rehashing the past 10 years, we have been through alot of extremely stressful family situations (we don't have children together) and ended up in therapy as our breaking point finally came due to the hours she worked. At the time, I was open and hopeful that the trouble was actually stemming from this stress and I was just lashing out at the one thing we could actually control. We went to counseling and we both agreed to adjust our expectations with me being more understanding and her cutting down on the hours. Flash forward 6 months, and she's working more hours then ever and we break up (this was about 6 years into the relationship); we take some time apart and agree to head back to therapy which again, expectations are set and things are good. It should be noted she has a regular office job and the hours she works is purely on her and not required (so nothing like an MD, cop, or anything like that).

We eventually have a better relationship then ever with a healthy sex life and end up getting engaged throwing in some premarital counseling due to general best practice, the hours starting up again, and the fact that it's clear we both have unresolved issues between us regarding everything. We plow ahead with getting married (8 years into the relationship) and almost immediately, it turns into a dead bedroom situation. To put it into perspective, we slept together once on our honeymoon and we've had sex less then once a month since where before we had a normal, healthy sex life. I understand libidos change but this seems extreme and add on top of that since getting married she's now working even longer then ever. It's not cheating because I've tried to catch her and honestly, she is just always at the office. Home life is her falling asleep on the couch, not coming to bed, getting up late and then just always working (queue more fights but this time I can't leave). Therapists she's worked with don't think she's depressed and she refuses to even try antidepressants. Overall, I'm terrible for admitting this, but I'm just over it and really just want to get the hurt and disappointment out of the way now to start healing and finding someone new but I was also raised that you should do everything in your power to save your marriage.

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (23 answers total)

If you want it over, that's enough reason to end things. Do it sooner rather than later. She may not be depressed, but she doesn't sound happy, and neither do you.

You do not need to do everything in your power to save your marriage at this point. When I decided to end my marriage, I looked at all the marriages I knew that had endured and asked myself whether hanging onto the distant hope of finding happiness with my partner again was something I could do. I could not. I really wish this idea of "saving the marriage" at all costs would die already. You both deserve happiness.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 8:48 AM on February 26, 2019 [19 favorites]

You can leave. Stuff and houses are so much easier to deal with than kids. Go and be happy. Ps - you are not put on earth simply to suffer through a bad marriage. Don’t you want a partner who actually desires time with you? Everyone deserves that. Let her stay married to her job.
posted by 41swans at 9:05 AM on February 26, 2019 [10 favorites]

"Expectations too high" applies, IMO, to specific and smaller issues - you might have to accept that have too high expectations around your partner's ability to remember birthdays without prompting, or you might think, "my partner is really good about taking care of pet-related chores except for cleaning the fur out of the cat's brush; it's annoying but I will adjust my expectations because you can't expect one person to do everything perfectly". If your partner is otherwise a good partner but has a quirk or failing that they just can't seem to manage without some help, that's where you adjust.

"I am seriously unhappy about many aspects of my relationship, but that's just how it is so I should adjust to serious unhappiness" isn't what you should be thinking.
posted by Frowner at 9:10 AM on February 26, 2019 [11 favorites]

There are some relationship areas where getting what you want can be like pulling teeth but that's okay because the thing you want isn't a huge and central part of the relationship. But when it's like pulling teeth to get traction on a huge and central part of the relationship (like sex or her being physically present in your life at all) I don't think it's worth it.

Source: I left a marriage where being treated with kindness or even cordiality was like pulling teeth. I left when I realized that having to ask and argue and negotiate for such a basic relationship component as "spouse should seem to like having me around" was dangerously eroding my self worth.
posted by MiraK at 9:20 AM on February 26, 2019 [14 favorites]

It sounds like you don't want to be married to someone who works the kind of hours your wife habitually works. And it also sounds like she's tried to address this in the past and inevitably regresses back to working all the hours and then some. Even without the sex stuff, this doesn't sound like an area where she's seriously capable of cutting back in the long term (and potentially she doesn't even want to). I think it would be reasonable for you guys to divorce based on this alone; it's a serious and persistent incompatibility.
posted by terretu at 9:24 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]

Divorce isn't just for disaster. It's for when you need to not be in the marriage. It sounds like your needs aren't compatible with her life.

It's fair to try therapy again if that will help you understand what you both need, and whether the two sets of needs are possible to mesh. But you don't have to do it to justify leaving the relationship.
posted by wellred at 9:32 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]

The thing about marriage unhappiness is, if nothing changes, it doesn't go away. You think you will get numb/get used to it/accept it. But you don't. You will never stop wanting something better. Because what you have is not enough, you are not happy (neither is she) and it's always going to hurt.

Leaving hurts too, don't get me wrong. But it's a hurt that does get better, a wound that heals instead of festering.

It's ok to just say "Enough." It's ok to end it and see what else life can be for you both.

I'm in the thick of this myself, so not exactly objective. I cared deeply for my ex. He cared for me. But we could not find happiness together and after awhile, being together was worse than splitting up, even though we were both scared of doing it.

I'm about 9 months in. It's been hard but good. I have not regretted it for a second. I really did try, but sometimes, it just doesn't work.
posted by emjaybee at 9:33 AM on February 26, 2019 [20 favorites]

You are not a bad person for wanting to be in a relationship where you have time to spend time with your partner, have sex, go on dates, pursue hobbies, see movies, etc. And she is not a bad person for being into her job and getting satisfaction from it.

You both have incompatible needs and you've both tried to find middle ground and compromise. You're not bad people for having tried and failed.

You can separate and still care for each other. You can divorce and still be friends if you want to. You can leave and not feel hate or bitterness.

I suspect you will both feel enormous relief at being able to move on and move forward in lives and with partners who meet your needs.
posted by brookeb at 9:36 AM on February 26, 2019 [10 favorites]

Overall, I'm terrible for admitting this, but I'm just over it and really just want to get the hurt and disappointment out of the way now to start healing and finding someone new but I was also raised that you should do everything in your power to save your marriage.

You are not terrible for wanting to stop hurting and start enjoying your life and primary relationship. It sounds like you've already tried to save the marriage, and she's not interested in doing more to fix it - and of course you can't do it without her participation. You only get this one life. So do the thing you know will help you live your life with less hurt and more healing.
posted by ldthomps at 10:30 AM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]

This has been a chronic issue that you've tried very hard to repair and it hasn't worked. It's fine to divorce and move on when your partner prefers a habit pattern that you find untenable.
posted by quince at 10:36 AM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]

It's not cheating because I've tried to catch her and honestly

This is no longer a relationship rooted in mutual trust and respect, and sounds like it hasn’t been for a while. It’s probably time to end it.
posted by mhoye at 10:56 AM on February 26, 2019 [7 favorites]

This is not a happy marriage, and I don't think inertia -- that is to say, being married already -- is enough of a reason to stay in it. Divorce is a bit of a hassle, but it's nothing like the emotional toll of being in an unhappy marriage.

If you were both trying really hard, and there was a lot of love, and it was just a rough patch -- then, yes, power through. But this sounds sad and exhausting. I want better for you. Time to move on.

Good luck.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:29 AM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]

*You* want to be sure you've done all you can. Tell her, not unkindly, that you are very unhappy. Ask her if this marriage is working for her. See a therapist with the idea of deciding if it's really over; that's a much safer space to have the discussion. I think you will be a bit happier if you end it after taking the extra step. I think it's almost certainly over.
posted by theora55 at 11:29 AM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]

This is what caught my eye, too. I'm not saying you're a bad person for doing it, but do you think she wants to be married to someone trying to catch her cheating?
posted by praemunire at 11:29 AM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]

I was the partner that worked all the time, stayed up late, prioritized my job over everything else.

Getting married might have been a way for her to consider the problem handled and now she’s free to go back to working all the time and ignore everything else (you). My husband and I literally almost did exactly that when we got engaged. I thought we were just going to get married and I would be able to go right back to work, that he was fine mostly on his own.

After about 6 months of it steadily getting worse, things kind of peaked and I got a blunt “Maybe this is the way you want to live your life but I’m not going to be around much longer if things continue this way.”

That was my come to jesus moment, because he was being honest and I respect him so I was willing to hear what he was trying to tell me. It sounds like you’re missing the respect that motivates partners to change when you say you’re not happy.

Something inside of me could not move forward until our deepest conflicts were resolved. Instead of rushing off to get married, we spent three years working very hard on our relationship together as a team before we signed the papers. I got a different job and we moved to another state where he is happier.

You can’t pull her head out of her ass for her, she has to want to see things differently and be willing to change. Find someone who hears you when you say yoy’re not happy.
posted by Snacks at 11:41 AM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]

Nthing the "just leave" train. Also, don't question what you are doing to cause or deserve this treatment - you are not at fault and you can leave. You don't need her permission, or us internet strangers, or anyone else. No one is going to prioritize your happiness but you, and the sooner you can start putting your efforts into YOU the better.
posted by FakeFreyja at 11:57 AM on February 26, 2019

Your wife's actions have continually demonstrated that she puts work ahead of you. And every day you stay, you choose that for yourself.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:47 PM on February 26, 2019 [7 favorites]

I think if anything this site does tend to make painfully clear how much guilt women feel about well everything, but especially so over leaving even the most horrendous relationships. The thought of leaving an actual good man who wants to spend time with them who's willing to do the work and get married... you are the needle in the haystack here, and that very thought would be too much for many women to take on in consideration of their own selfish happiness.
Now, I coukd be wrong here, but it sounds to me like your wife checked out of the marriage a while ago, and she may just be waiting for you to realize this and leave on your own.
Im not saying this is good or right of her to do, it just sounds like it could be the case here, but either way you are currently married to someone who's already married. to their job. Not to you. So give yourself permission to go find what you want and be with someone who'd be blissfully happy to find a devoted husband and partner.
posted by OnefortheLast at 12:53 PM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]

I'm just wondering if she's shared why she works all of these hours? What does she get out of it? More money? More satisfaction? Does she just like her job because she knows she's good at it and it's something she can control?

I'm not sure if it even matters at this point, because you sound tired and hurt and checked out of the relationship already. But, if it were me, I'd really want to know why.
posted by dancing_angel at 4:50 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

I was also raised that you should do everything in your power to save your marriage

The thing is, it's not in your power to save your marriage through unilateral effort -- both of you have to be putting in the effort. If you are unhappy about your wife not spending time much with you and not having much sex with you because she's either working very long hours or too tired and she refuses to address that, there's nothing you can do to resolve that problem on your own. Sure, you can give your wife an ultimatum and she might respond by cutting back her work hours for awhile, but you've already been through several rounds of that. It sounds like it's time to go, and that you are ready to bail. If you need reassurance that it's okay to walk away, well, the answers have been nearly unanimous that it is.
posted by orange swan at 4:54 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

In my experience, workaholics who choose to stay at work (ie not doctors etc who don’t have a choice) are doing it to avoid something. I would ask her what she’s avoiding. Is it you? Does she have some unresolved trauma in the past where she works constantly to avoid thinking about it? Does she have debt you’re not aware of that she’s trying to pay off?

Basically there’s a reason for it and generally mentally healthy people can love their job, work hard but still want balance, hobbies, relationships etc. If you’re interested in saving the relationship and she is too, I’d start by finding out why she does it. Of course, if you (or she) are just over it by now - and no one would blame you if you were - you know what to do.
posted by Jubey at 7:12 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

If explicit, good-faith efforts are made between the parties along the lines of, "When you say/do X, I feel Y" in order to truly work for solutions, you rightly expect that those actions will be followed. If the other person says they hear you, and steps are agreed upon or promised or whatever, you expect them to do it. You expect that the relationship's health matters, and they are there with you, wanting things to get better.

But if that person consistently does not make those changes... despite your conversations, counseling, and all of it, they keep returning to the specific behavior that was discussed...that's the reddest of flags. That says volumes about how that person views you in the context of their life.

When I tell you that your actions or words or behaviors deeply affect me in negative ways, and you don't do anything about it, you have told me quite clearly that for you, I do not matter. You have dismissed me, demoted me, de-prioritized me. Once is bad enough, but multiple times? It's decision time.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 4:17 AM on February 27, 2019

Uhhh assuming this is the US are you aware it's not just doctors and cops who actually have to put in crazy hours just to keep their jobs? Do you make enough money to support the both of you, both now and through your deaths? If not, some of your phrasing seems ludicrous to me. Many jobs expect people to be basically on call 24/7 and if you don't do that, you get fired or laid off, especially if you're older, higher paid, etc. Why would someone who therapists agree, is not depressed, just try antidepressants? Have you looked up the side effects of antidepressants or how long it generally takes an actual confirmed depressed person to find one that works, or the overall effectiveness rate?

I'm not saying stay in the marriage; you seem set to go. I wonder why some of these things haven't come up in therapy, especially from your wife's point of view, but it doesn't really matter at this point. You're unhappy, she's unhappy, you're basically piling on at this point. Blame her if you must, but stop belaboring how she doesn't put out enough and works too much before you are both old, unhappy, and running out of time.
posted by love2potato at 4:56 PM on February 27, 2019