Home temperature, long visit - what's fair
February 25, 2019 10:48 PM   Subscribe

My elderly father has been unwell. We visited him for a week at his home in a very warm climate. This autumn he's coming to visit us in our cold climate for almost 3 months. What's fair in terms of home temperature and heating bills?

My father and I don't have the best relationship - he abandoned me as a child but has tried over the past 20+ years to make up for that for the most part. I only say that to put the question into the context that I don't feel I really "owe" him all that much.

When we visited it was quite tense as he had a ton of rules for us staying in his home - no eating on the couch, no touching the thermostat, up and beds made by 6am, no cooking "smelly" foods like veggie burgers, if something fell on the floor while eating we had to jump up and immediately clean with bleach, etc etc. I finally said something because my husband who is from a cold climate just couldn't bear the heat anymore. He turned the thermostat down 2 degrees for the last 3 days of our visit and was much nicer after I explained that he wasn't making us feel welcome in his home. The visit ended much better than it started.

The trouble is I had invited him to spend almost 3 months in my home as it will be hurricane season where he lives and he doesn't want to stay home through it. After he turned down the heat he said "Ok but this means when I visit you I get the temperature how I want it." I was at the end of my rope so just said okay, fine. But it's not really fine at all!

He has a 1 bed condo. I have a large 5 bedroom Victorian home with single pane original windows in a cold climate. My heating bills are usually very high even though we're careful with the thermostat and are at work 5 days a week. I have no idea how many hundreds or possibly even thousands it's going to cost me to keep the house at his preferred temperature 7 days a week!

There is also resentment on my part because he pays all my sister's living expenses (she is unemployed and has BPD) but gives nothing to me. I don't really want his money but I would like an inheritance to be honest - the money he and my sister are burning through was inherited by him from my grandmother. My sister would not allow him to stay in her home in a million years, probably not even for a single night.

So it's all a bit of a mess and I feel tired of getting what I perceive as walked all over. My question is how do I address this? What I could really use is some help wording an email to him so that I don't have to pay for all this heating and ideally so he stays less time with us. The problem comes from going back on what I agreed to too hastily in order to be nice and keep the peace.
posted by hazyjane to Human Relations (29 answers total) 3 users marked this as a favorite
 
This sounds challenging but also something that can have a happy end. It's your house so you can do what you want: comfortable temperature, foods you like, etc. It'd be one thing for you to insist upon no heat and live in filth BUT I'm sure your home is at a standard that would be fine for most people. You do not need to crank up the heat or make your bed or do any of the other bullshit your dad insisted upon when you were a guest. You can buy a space heater or two for your dad, make sure there are extra blankets and slippers, etc.

Hosting him is very kind but will likely be very hard on you both, at least at first while you adjust. Having honest conversation will help if not solve everything. You are nice to have him there but you don't "owe" him anything, just like you wrote. He can always leave, really. It'll be hard to set boundaries with your father after years of struggling but it's possible. I recommend the book Where to Draw the Line: How to Set Healthy Boundaries Every Day by Anne Katherine. You can download it on Amazon, for example; it's a quick read and would probably be worth reading before he arrives.

Good luck!!
posted by smorgasbord at 11:15 PM on February 25, 2019 [4 favorites]


Oh, no, something is wrong with the furnace and it won't go above 65. Are you sure you still want to come out? We can put a space heater in your room just for you. Or maybe we should all make other plans to meet.
posted by dum spiro spero at 11:18 PM on February 25, 2019 [6 favorites]


Oh dear, what a mess! I feel very sorry for you, awful situation, trying the do the right thing.

However, I feel that your father has inadvertently shown you your path. "Up and beds made by 6:00 a.m." What!! In a pig's eye. I'm amazed you stayed one night in his house, frankly. But most importantly, your father does not get to set the rules in your house.

Here it is: Dad, I am sending you a list of rules you will abide by in our home. We will provide you a space heater and heated throw in your bedroom. The rest of the house will be under our control. We will eat what we usually do; we will clean on our schedule. If something might make you more comfortable please let us know and we will consider it. If this is not satisfactory, you have both my sister and your condo (maybe it will be a calm hurricane season).

Up and beds made by 6:00! CHRIST ON A CRUTCH!
posted by kestralwing at 11:18 PM on February 25, 2019 [46 favorites]


As for the email, you can be honest: "Dear Dad, I look forward to having you visit but realize I just can't afford to keep the house at the temperature you'd like. However, I will have blankets and a space heater for you. I'm writing this to you now because I said yes too quickly before. I want you to come but have to set these limits. Are you still interested? Thank you!"
posted by smorgasbord at 11:19 PM on February 25, 2019 [50 favorites]


A compromise may be to kit up just the one guest bedroom for his preferred temperature - winterize the window and door with plastic sheeting and draught excluders, then add a space heater, maybe provide warm clothes to be worn in the rest of the house. Should work out much cheaper than heating the whole house and may avoid outright conflict.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 11:22 PM on February 25, 2019 [12 favorites]


Also, please don't expect any sort of inheritance from your dad. It's OK and natural to want one but it's not a guarantee or something anyone really "deserves." That's hard, I get it. Believe me, I've been through lots of hard family money drama myself. Families can be so tough!

I can understand your resentment but your sister is unemployed and is living with borderline personality disorder, which is likely untreated or at least under supported. Her life is likely very hellish and I feel bad for her because the BPD is not her fault but something she must live with. It totally makes sense that she couldn't host your dad even for a night, you know? It doesn't mean she doesn't love or appreciate your dad; frankly, she probably is resentful of his generosity as much as she is appreciative of it. Would you want to trade lives with your sister? Probably not, even if it meant having your dad pay all of your expenses. You have freedom and have accomplished so much despite a rough start in life, and that is something to be proud of! You are generous when you don't need to be and that is also a strength!
posted by smorgasbord at 11:25 PM on February 25, 2019 [24 favorites]


I think making sure his room is warm is a good compromise. You can rely on being unable to heat the rest of the house as a good excuse for it being only his room. I don't see trying to keep a sick old man warm and comfortable is really on par with being walked all over, it's just basic human decency. How would you want to be treated in his place? Would you want to be cold while you were also sick and having fled your home?
posted by bleep at 11:43 PM on February 25, 2019 [4 favorites]


Clearly an outlier but here it goes. All the advice about space heaters is good and well but being in a house a good chunk of the day with a thermostat setting that assumes that nobody is home is frankly miserable in winter in parts of the world where it gets cold. It is not your guests’ fault, that you have a poorly insulated house that is expensive to heat. So please make sure that the default thermostat setting is whatever you normally have mornings/evenings/weekend daytime. If that is still too chilly for him sure, bring on jumpers and blankets and a space heater.

But setting the thermostat as if nobody is home when you know he is at home means you’re effectively confining him to the guest room. That is unlikely to make the experience any more pleasant for you all. So if you don’t want him to stay, tell him he won’t be able to stay. If you elect to have him stay and if you heat the house when you’re home it should be heated when he’s home. This is not a long weekend visit where you can expect somebody to just suck it up and be cold for a few days. So work out if you want him to stay or not but don’t punish him by keeping the house at a temperature you would not put up with yourself if you were home. Beyond that by all means blankets, jumpers, space heaters.
posted by koahiatamadl at 12:03 AM on February 26, 2019 [21 favorites]


It sounds like this is going to be a serious power struggle in many more ways than heat. What's happening with his house while he's staying with you for three months? Could he seek out a house trade so at least someone is staying there while he's away and he has somewhere to stay? If he's not staying there because of hurricane season, what happens if there is a hurricane? The house and all the belongings will still be damaged and still have to be taken care of. He just won't know about it in a timely way.

Your question left me absolutely horrified on your behalf. Your father felt absolutely at ease dictating to a horrifying degree your autonomy while in his house. What would actually make this a tolerable visit for you? What would you expect of a short-term roommate who wasn't biologically related? What expectations and cost sharing and chore sharing would make you willing to have a roommate? Communicate those things clearly and non-negotiablely.

Tell him that if those things are unacceptable, then he needs to be making different plans for his seasonal home. Perhaps he should consider a time share. Or literally anything that isn't giving you another full grown adult human you are going to have to battle in your own home. Tell him it's a take or leave it offer, and you truly won't be offended if he decides to seek other accommodations.
posted by stoneweaver at 1:10 AM on February 26, 2019 [15 favorites]


From his perspective you've already agreed with him that he can have the temperature set how he likes it when he visits - most older people seem to like it warmer in my experience. As he lives in only a one bedroom flat then I'm not surprised he coped with such a small space by having a lot of rules when two extra people were living there. He probably sees the impact of him visiting you in your large home as being less. Why not just turn down the radiators in rooms he won't be in?

It feels like the bigger issues in this question are more than the temperature. I come from a large family and me and my siblings have a wide range of different incomes / assets - I wouldn't be surprised or offended if my parents gave differing levels of financial support to them based on need, especially if one had a serious mental illness. I also think you should try to move on from thoughts of an inheritance - both out of principle as intergenerational unearned wealth transfers are a large source of inequality in society, but mainly that it's his money to spend/"burn" how he wishes. People vary in how comfortable they are talking about money but I'd find it very tacky to discuss the costs of hosting with a guest.

Good luck, three months living with parents again would be tough for most people - focus more on how to reduce total time, or time spent being home together.
posted by JonB at 3:33 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]


It does sound like it will be a challenging visit. If you all decide to proceed, you might take a look at your father’s clothing. My father-in-law was visiting us in June in Northern Wisconsin from Arizona and was miserably cold, until we bundled him up properly in borrowed long johns, a sweatshirt and smart wool socks, under what he deemed his “warm” clothes. His time in Arizona seemed to make him forget how to dress properly in the “north”, despite spending most of his life in Illinois.
posted by sarajane at 4:13 AM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]


Bottom line, you don't feel you owe him much and you now know that living with him is very unpleasant.

Autumn is a long way away - plenty of time for you to revoke the invite. You've thought more about what he needs to be comfortable, and it just won't be possible.

Plenty of time for him to find a short-term lease near you if he really wants to. Or to move entirely, if he's that done with hurricanes!
posted by mersen at 4:18 AM on February 26, 2019 [8 favorites]


I think this is something you need to talk with him about before his visit. (After all, if you had known his rules before visiting, one or both of you might not have come.)

So you need to tell him that you need to talk with him about some things, because if he comes it's important to you for everyone's needs to be meet. You tell him you have a large house with 5 rooms and many windows. You calmly tell him how much you spent on heating last year when you were mostly out of the house and kept the thermostat low. You tell him you know that temperature is important to him and that he's probably grown unused to colder temperatures anyway, so you are trying to figure how to keep things warm for him in a way you can afford. Tell him you want to keep the thermostat at temperature X, but have him supplement with a good portable space heater that can be moved from room to room. You'll get him electric heat blankets and hand/foot warmers and take him shopping for warm clothing. Ask him: Does he feel comfortable with that? Can he think of other things you can offer him?

He should know what he's getting into beforehand, he should feel that he's had some say in it, and he should be made aware of exactly how much it costs to keep the house warm.


He sounds like an ass and I can certainly understand your reluctance to accommodate him. That said, keep in mind that not everyone feels the effects of a given temperature in the same way, and the elderly often have more trouble staying warm in any case. After living in a warm area it can also take a very long time to adjust to colder temperatures.

Be prepared for the possibility that he'll get a cold or flu or pneumonia etc., and then you might have a harder time keeping the temperatures low.
posted by trig at 4:36 AM on February 26, 2019 [5 favorites]


Almost three months is a long time to have a guest in your home, especially one that you have a contentious relationship with.

I'd either cancel or shorten the visit dramatically. Your concerns about heating bills are a symptom of a much larger worry about hosting your formerly-estranged challenging dad in your house for a long, long time. Too long.
posted by 41swans at 4:37 AM on February 26, 2019 [11 favorites]


Hurricanes are not a surprise. Would it be less expensive and less emotionally damaging to just arrange for him to fly out as soon as there is a storm on track to land where he lives? I know flights get pricier when people start evacuating but it might still make more sense than having him stay with you for the entire season.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:16 AM on February 26, 2019 [24 favorites]


Don't do this. I loved my mother and could take a maximum of three days with her before I'd be ready to run screaming off a cliff. You don't even like like this man. No amount of inheritance will be enough to make up for the misery of having him in your house every day for three months.

Can he manage stairs easily? Do you mind if he cooks in your kitchen and rearranges things to suit himself? How much complaining can you handle? Will he eat your food at the time that you can prepare it or will he go crazy because he always eats at 5pm and you don't even get home till 5:30? Will he be lonely in your house all day? Does he have snow boots and a winter coat? Do you have his favourite tv channels? Be prepared for constant nagging and complaining about every single thing you do or don't do, every inconvenience in your home (because it's not exactly like his, and you don't do things exactly the way he thinks you should). I have a friend whose father moved in with them after her mother died. I fear for her marriage.
Uninvite him.
posted by Enid Lareg at 6:22 AM on February 26, 2019 [5 favorites]


I live in a difficult-to-heat Victorian. I could not afford three months of someone turning the thermostat up until the house was truly warm - that would run into the thousands of dollars. We're all used to the thermostat at 64 or so and loading up on sweaters or using a space heater, and that's because it's what we can afford. If we had an elderly relative who were forced to stay with us because of poverty, we'd eat the cost - but it would be the cost of a space heater and additional clothes, because we can't eat thousands of dollars in additional heating.

I truly don't understand why people feel entitled to treatment which is extremely, extremely expensive when they have their own money and their own home. It really rubs me the wrong way. This whole thing just appalls me in part because I know that in my family, if we needed to incur an extra expense like this there would be no question but that we'd cover it ourselves.

My suspicion is that you'd be thinking less about the inheritance if you weren't looking at this kind of extra expense; it's easy enough to say "my dad's money is his own to spend" when your dad isn't raising your bills this way. My feeling is that if someone wants to stay with you for an extended period and wants to cause you a substantial extra expense, they need to help out. Obviously your dad isn't going to be willing to pay his share of the heating bills because he doesn't seem like that kind of guy, so IMO you warn him and urge him not to stay with you.

Honestly, I'd be worried about him jacking up the thermostat when you're out because he seems like a "my way is right, my children should do what I say" guy. If you can't lock it, tell him you won't be able to accommodate him.

In my youth I was a lot more of a push-over and had a lot of problems with people living in my house. I'd let people stay for extended periods even when I knew it was going to be a horrible disaster and make me miserable, and the end result was always a mess, broken friendships, etc. I feel very strongly that unless it is a true emergency, you should not start visits with people when you have a strong suspicion that they will become unbearable and destructive. The discomfort of saying no upfront is really, really worth it.
posted by Frowner at 6:27 AM on February 26, 2019 [12 favorites]


he had a ton of rules for us staying in his home - no eating on the couch, no touching the thermostat, up and beds made by 6am, no cooking "smelly" foods like veggie burgers, if something fell on the floor while eating we had to jump up and immediately clean with bleach, etc etc.
No eating on the couch? Maybe.

No touching the thermostat? Uh, maybe.

Up by 6am? Are you kidding me? This is, objectively, insane. It is unreasonable to insist on this degree of compliance with arbitrary rules from houseguests. These are control/power plays, nothing more, and his followup about controlling temp in YOUR house just proves the point.

Three months is way too long. You don't owe this guy anything. It seems to me you're kind of asking permission to say no here, and I absolutely think you can, and should, do so.
posted by uberchet at 7:45 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]


Does it really make any sense to butt heads over the thermostat and make an issue about it?

Just say, "sure, okay", and then turn the thermostat down to an acceptable temperature. You could start with it warm at the start of the visit and then turn it down as your father acclimatizes.

It sounds to me that once you developed a relationship with your father he was willing to accomodate you... near the end of the visit. So maybe that's what's going to happen this time, too.

Ask him for a short list (no more than 3) things he wants during his visit. Presumably one of those things will be pretty easy to provide to him. You could always make *that* the sticking point in your negotiation, and then, once you give and give it to him, he may not feel the need to crank up the heat.

Or, you could continue to argue or negotiate over the one small thing, and in the meantime his attention will be diverted from the thermostat.

Best not count on an inheritance.
posted by JamesBay at 7:58 AM on February 26, 2019


As much as I'm sympathetic, I don't think you can keep the house at a temperature you know your guest, especially your elderly ill guest, finds uncomfortable, or force them to shuffle around shrouded in a down throw and pulling a space heater behind them. You don't have to make it tropical but surely you can compromise around 68-70F?
posted by praemunire at 8:12 AM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]


For me, turning the heat up to 65 is warm, though the living room gets warmer with the wood stove. The thermostat is in the living room, so when the wood stove runs, the rest of the house is cooler. I'm frugal, not wealthy, and care a great deal about Climate Change and oil politics. And my family gives me so much crap. I visit family and the heat is stifling. My sister-in-law repeatedly reminded me that when my now deceased brother visited me 20 years ago, he was cold, ffs.

You Dad is kind of an ass. Get a an Internet-enabled thermostat. They require a specific wire for power to the thermostat, worth the expense in this case. But you will be able to manage the heat from work, and you don't have to tell him.

Pick up some wool cardigans and pullovers at Goodwill, or freecycle. Maybe even wool slacks. Get a hot water bottle; a scout canteen works quite well. And an electric blanket for his bed, maybe another small one for a chair or couch. Get one with a timer for his bed; not sur eit's all that safefor an old person to have one on high all night. I had one that had a power boost - it would be on high for a while, then down to low, really a great feature. Fleece throws. A down comforter for his bed. If you get a space heater for him, he'll run it 24/7, so look for the best options; I would not get one. If there's a room that gets good sunshine, set it up for him to watch tv there in the daytime. Old people do have trouble staying warm, but it's your house. 3 months is well past guest status.

Of course, do be kind in terms of doing things he might like, including him, making him comfortable. Get a 2nd small tv, 20" tvs are about 100 bucks, so he can watch what he wants. With a Roku and a decent over-the-air antenna, there's a ton of stuff that us geezers enjoy. The more you can set up space in the house just for him, and not be too much in each others' hair, the better.

Ask him to contribute substantially to the expense, and tell him that doesn't give him the right to be in control at your house, because you and your family have every expectation to be comfortable in your home.

This is a guy who wasn't very nice to you and even while trying to be nice to you, isn't very nice to you. Be your self with him, do not tolerate his demands and meanness. Tell him bluntly but politely that you feel he should give you a fair inheritance. In my experience, bullies respond better to demands than to sucking up.

I don't think he'll last 3 months in your home. Be ready with a backup plan. My Mom was, shall we say, difficult. I always prepped myself for visits with music, projects, books, jokes, distractions, to make any visit possible. Even so, there were virtually always fireworks.
posted by theora55 at 8:21 AM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]


3 months is an eternity. I have a fantastic relationship with both my parents and after two weeks with them I barely wanted to speak to them for a year. You have plenty of time to rescind your invitation and for him to make different plans.

I would suggest that he find a short term rental near to you, so you can have occasional dinners together or other outings, but he can have his own space and not be beholden to your schedule or household requirements. It sounds like he did respond to you after you were frank with your requests, even though he was a bit bratty about it, so try being straightforward. Say that you don't think staying in your home would be wise, that you don't think your house is compatible with his long term comfort, that you know both of you need a lot of separate space to make things work and your guest bedroom is not a separate space for three whole months. If you want to go so far as to do some research about options in your area you can, but you could also just leave it hanging and see how much he actually cares.
posted by Mizu at 8:50 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]


If you were inviting the nicest, sweetest, most pleasant person in the world to stay at your house for three months it would be plenty stressful enough.

Even ignoring for a moment the expensive, sure-to-be-a-huge-problem of the heating issue (which he seems eager to use to “get back” for your visit), this would seem an absolutely unlivable situation.

I would strongly reconsider the invitation to let this unpleasant person basically move in with you (3 months is not a “visit”) and turn your life inside-out and upside-down for three months.
"Fish and visitors stink after three days"
- Benjamin Franklin, who wasn’t even bringing up the heating bill
posted by blueberry at 8:51 AM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]


Ugh, sorry, this sounds really difficult! I like smorgasbord's script: "Dear Dad, I look forward to having you visit but realize I just can't afford to keep the house at the temperature you'd like. However, I will have blankets and a space heater for you. I'm writing this to you now because I said yes too quickly before. I want you to come but have to set these limits. Are you still interested? Thank you!"

I also agree that a short term rental nearby would be ideal.

If you do wind up hosting him, he is going to need to understand that this is your place, and your rules - like - you get up at the time you want to!

I do have a comment on the heat thing. My elderly father was always cold, and he kept his place at inferno heating level, and wore extra warm clothes on top of it. I was miserable when visiting (and used to nudge down the thermostat a bit when he wasn't looking), but it was his place, and I understood it was a by product of his age and illness. He was not a complainer and I saw how miserable he was when he got cold (and it didn't take much to make him cold.) So, I think you need to be understanding about the heat thing, to the extent you can, though without trying to heat your whole house to his ideal temperature (probably not even possible anyway, even if you wanted to spend the money!!)

So, if you do host your father, I would kit up the guest room - heated mattress pad, electric blanket, down comforter, and space heater, and seal up any window drafts. Also have an additional space heater available for other parts of the house, preferably one that is easily mobile (we have one on wheels.) There are also things like heated socks, down vests ..... Adding a tv to the guest room with ability to watch stuff/stream stuff would also be nice.
posted by gudrun at 9:52 AM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]


Buy him some long underwear.

That sounds kinda arch, but hear me out. It's the end of winter in the northern hemisphere; there will be sales on mid-weight Capilene soon. Buy him a set, and some nice wool socks. Explain to him as others above have said that you can't keep the whole building like a greenhouse, but you will keep his guest room toasty. Getting brand-name longies shows you're not just being a dick.

(yes I am an engineer, and why don't those blind guys play golf at night?)
posted by notsnot at 9:54 AM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]


I have an elderly aunt who is always cold and keeps her house at 75 degrees in the winter. It's too warm for me, but I am not going to ask her to turn down her heat while I visit. It's her home and she pays the bills.

Your father has financial resources. Why not explain your original (very spendy to replace) single pane windows and heating bill situation to him? While you and your partner are out working, and therefore are not able to turn down the thermostat because he is at home, your father will be there and want to feel warm. Share your heating bill from last winter, and ask him to pay for the increase while he is visiting. If he is at all reasonable, I think he might agree that contributing is fair.

Honestly, this is not an issue he is likely be thinking of at all, in the thicket of interpersonal family issues, and is, in contrast, easy to solve. This actually is a problem that can be solved by throwing money at it.
posted by citygirl at 10:23 AM on February 26, 2019


Is there time for him to make other arrangements? I don't know what counts as elderly, but old people don't handle cold temperatures as well as young people do (or hot ones, for that matter), so there might be a risk of hypothermia for you all to worry about.
posted by SereneStorm at 9:15 PM on February 26, 2019


Three months is going to feel like a year and is utterly bananapants. But if you must:

You cannot cannot cannot keep your house at a temperature that will please him. It will cost you a goddamn fortune and he will still be miserable to matter what, so save your money and your resentment. I am a cold-blooded part-lizard person (yet I am not an unreasonable 6 am bed-making weirdo) and I SWEAR that what I say is true.

You can, however, likely keep one room to his for-reals liking. Give him a lair. Do the plastic sealed with a hairdryer thing on the windows. Plug up drafts. Get a space heater (the oil-filled electric radiators are pretty fantastic and not too expensive to buy or run.) And get an electric blanket or a heated mattress pad.

Be willing to hang out with him in his lair. Also, get some heated throws for your main rooms.
posted by desuetude at 11:31 PM on February 26, 2019


Do you get a dry cold or a damp cold in your area? Elderly people really feel the damp and you would probably be unable to ever keep your place warm
Enough. In addition, three months is too long for your BFF to live with you, let alone someone you feel friction with. Plus you have months of dread leading up to the actual visit, then will need time to decompress after/reconnect with your spouse for whom this will be even harder...really, I think this was too big of an ask on his part and perhaps you were too hasty in saying yes to the visit. I assume he has lived where he does knowing there was an annual hurricane season. Is this his first year there? If not, what did he do in other years during hurricane season? He is an adult who can make his own choices without imposing so heavily on you and your husband. He sounds like even if he gets 90% of what he wants he will still moan, it is 100% his way come hell or high water. So compromising won’t get you any brownie points, just cancel the whole thing as you realise it isn’t a good idea. Honestly, I wouldn’t even offer alternatives, he can come up with those suggestions on his own and you can agree/shoot down as necessary (meaning, he suggests he rents a place nearby, not that he still comes with vague promises you know you can’t hold him to).
posted by saucysault at 3:41 AM on February 27, 2019


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