Cat + Dog = ?
December 28, 2018 8:25 AM Subscribe
I've had cats (a long time ago) and I have a dog (for the last 10 years), but never both at the same time. Now, I kind of do (explanation inside), and I don't know much about kitteh/doggo relationships, so as a cat + dog person, maybe you can comment on how things are going?
So, the deal is that my neighbor rescued a kitty off the street – like literally stopped her car on a busy street and scooped up this teeny kitty who was in imminent peril. She wanted to keep kitty, but her already established cat HATES her (new kitty) and it's untenable for new kitty to stay inside there.
The way it's worked out is that neighbor feeds both cats, and handles vet, shots, etc., established cat is indoor / outdoor* and kitty (who is now cat) is outdoors. Of course, new-kitty-now-cat started coming around to us to check us out, and we let her go in and out as she pleases. As it's become colder, she pleases to be indoors most of the time. And we are also now feeding her while neighbor is out of town for holidays. So kitty-now-cat is comfortably ensconced, and we'll see what happens when our neighbor comes back (if she'd rather we continue feeding and take over vet stuff, we can do that; or we can share kitty care).
We were worried about how our older dog would deal with it, but until recently, she's mostly dealt with it by comprehensively ignoring kitty-now-cat. Coming upon her accidentally, dog would turn around and escape the encounter. Kitty seemed like she would like to be friends (to my eye, anyway), but our dog just acts like she's not there, or basically runs away from her. However, now that she's around most of the time, I see that the dog is actually sometimes going up to her to bump noses and smell butt a bit. Now that she (dog) sometimes does this, it seems to make the kitty slightly nervous, even though she was the one trying to do that before. Also one time when dog returned from a walk, she was feeling kind of crazy excited and running from one room to another and kitty became energized and kind of running and flipping around next to her (dog). I only caught this for a second out of the corner of my eye, but it seemed playful, not fighty to me, but I can't be certain.
However, I've seen the cat swipe at the dog when the cat is on a higher level (a chair seat, say) and the dog walks by, not paying attention to the cat. I can't tell if it's claws-in or claws-out. The dog kind of freaks out and runs away.
Our dog (pic) is 13-15 years old (she was a rescue, so we aren't sure), and her sight and hearing not as good as they used to be; she's Not Fond Of Change. Kitty-now-cat (pic) is young, and very affectionate with us, and seems quite bold (I've never seen her hide or seem scared of anything). Both dog and kitty are female and spayed.
How does this seem to be going to you? I'd love for them to be friends, but that's like the Super Amazing Fantastic Good possible scenario. Just Fine scenario would be they simply co-exist peaceably. My Secret Anxious Worry scenario is that as kitty-now-cat becomes more and more confident about being inside with us, she becomes more territorial and fearless and regularly torments the dog. We can't do that, and would have to alter arrangements if that was the development.
From what I've described, how does it seem so far? Any tips to make it go either Fantastic Good or Just Fine versus Anxious Worry?
* Pet cats here, like a lot of other places in Europe / UK, are almost all indoor-outdoor; there are no natural predators, and we live in a neighborhood with tiny little streets where people do not (cannot, really) speed. Our actual street gets almost no traffic at all other than residents parking their cars. Our building is also enclosed by walls and gate.
So, the deal is that my neighbor rescued a kitty off the street – like literally stopped her car on a busy street and scooped up this teeny kitty who was in imminent peril. She wanted to keep kitty, but her already established cat HATES her (new kitty) and it's untenable for new kitty to stay inside there.
The way it's worked out is that neighbor feeds both cats, and handles vet, shots, etc., established cat is indoor / outdoor* and kitty (who is now cat) is outdoors. Of course, new-kitty-now-cat started coming around to us to check us out, and we let her go in and out as she pleases. As it's become colder, she pleases to be indoors most of the time. And we are also now feeding her while neighbor is out of town for holidays. So kitty-now-cat is comfortably ensconced, and we'll see what happens when our neighbor comes back (if she'd rather we continue feeding and take over vet stuff, we can do that; or we can share kitty care).
We were worried about how our older dog would deal with it, but until recently, she's mostly dealt with it by comprehensively ignoring kitty-now-cat. Coming upon her accidentally, dog would turn around and escape the encounter. Kitty seemed like she would like to be friends (to my eye, anyway), but our dog just acts like she's not there, or basically runs away from her. However, now that she's around most of the time, I see that the dog is actually sometimes going up to her to bump noses and smell butt a bit. Now that she (dog) sometimes does this, it seems to make the kitty slightly nervous, even though she was the one trying to do that before. Also one time when dog returned from a walk, she was feeling kind of crazy excited and running from one room to another and kitty became energized and kind of running and flipping around next to her (dog). I only caught this for a second out of the corner of my eye, but it seemed playful, not fighty to me, but I can't be certain.
However, I've seen the cat swipe at the dog when the cat is on a higher level (a chair seat, say) and the dog walks by, not paying attention to the cat. I can't tell if it's claws-in or claws-out. The dog kind of freaks out and runs away.
Our dog (pic) is 13-15 years old (she was a rescue, so we aren't sure), and her sight and hearing not as good as they used to be; she's Not Fond Of Change. Kitty-now-cat (pic) is young, and very affectionate with us, and seems quite bold (I've never seen her hide or seem scared of anything). Both dog and kitty are female and spayed.
How does this seem to be going to you? I'd love for them to be friends, but that's like the Super Amazing Fantastic Good possible scenario. Just Fine scenario would be they simply co-exist peaceably. My Secret Anxious Worry scenario is that as kitty-now-cat becomes more and more confident about being inside with us, she becomes more territorial and fearless and regularly torments the dog. We can't do that, and would have to alter arrangements if that was the development.
From what I've described, how does it seem so far? Any tips to make it go either Fantastic Good or Just Fine versus Anxious Worry?
* Pet cats here, like a lot of other places in Europe / UK, are almost all indoor-outdoor; there are no natural predators, and we live in a neighborhood with tiny little streets where people do not (cannot, really) speed. Our actual street gets almost no traffic at all other than residents parking their cars. Our building is also enclosed by walls and gate.
Response by poster: Ah, good point! The cat has been allowed to wander into / out of our place for ... hm, about two months? She's been staying mostly inside here only for the past two-three weeks.
posted by taz at 8:35 AM on December 28, 2018
posted by taz at 8:35 AM on December 28, 2018
My only experience is two cat-dog relationships that were much worse than this, but it seems like it's going very good! Cat is obviously very comfortable around dog and dog seems indifferent, which is fine. If you're worried about the cat starting to torment the dog or do more things like the drive-by swipe, which seems like play behavior, I'd make sure to have a lot of individual play with the cat to get out that energy so she's not trying to bother the dog for it.
posted by gaybobbie at 8:41 AM on December 28, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by gaybobbie at 8:41 AM on December 28, 2018 [7 favorites]
This sounds totally normal to me. I've had cats and dogs together for my whole life. Even if every now and then a little blood is shed (usually, dog gets swiped for whatever real or imagined breach of cat etiquette), dogs are forgiving and cats more tolerant than they get credit for. It sounds like y'all are on the right track.
posted by fiercecupcake at 8:51 AM on December 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by fiercecupcake at 8:51 AM on December 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
It actually sounds like it’s going great. I would give them somebody more time together and just not allow things to escalate. If you see them getting too playful, have them tone it down, as that’s when things can sometimes get out of hand. Think of it like being at a dog park. You don’t let the dogs get too out of control and make sure the play stays at a certain level to prevent drama. (Also, your dog will probably tell the kitty when she’s had enough.)
Overall it sounds quite positive.
posted by MountainDaisy at 8:53 AM on December 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Overall it sounds quite positive.
posted by MountainDaisy at 8:53 AM on December 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Yeah, the drive-by whap is usually playing. If the cat were being really aggressive she'd stalk the dog, hunt him in a much scarier way. I agree that you should try ramping up the intensity of how and how much you play with her so she can work off her younger energy in a way that isn't going to mesh well with an older dog. You might also make some perches and nests for her in much higher places than chairs, so she's more likely to be out of whap-range when your dog ambles past.
What's the cat's tail doing when the dog's around? You can tell a lot about a cat's feelings by their tail. If it's usually straight up like !!! then she's very excited and maybe a little bit anxious but mostly excited hello hello! and that means she's very hype about the dog but perhaps you should watch for overstimulation. If her tail is up but curvy at the top and a little softer in general, she is happy and confident but not super psyched up, this is a great attitude you want to aim for. If her tail is whipping around and twitchy she is nervous and annoyed and either about to bolt out of the room or attack something, when this happens distract her with a toy while a partner removes the dog from her vicinity. You probably know a lot of this from having had cats before, just apply it to this new scenario of cat+dog. The more calm and confident you are when they're together, the more both of them will read such situations as okay and nothing to worry about, and the smoother it will go.
posted by Mizu at 8:55 AM on December 28, 2018 [8 favorites]
What's the cat's tail doing when the dog's around? You can tell a lot about a cat's feelings by their tail. If it's usually straight up like !!! then she's very excited and maybe a little bit anxious but mostly excited hello hello! and that means she's very hype about the dog but perhaps you should watch for overstimulation. If her tail is up but curvy at the top and a little softer in general, she is happy and confident but not super psyched up, this is a great attitude you want to aim for. If her tail is whipping around and twitchy she is nervous and annoyed and either about to bolt out of the room or attack something, when this happens distract her with a toy while a partner removes the dog from her vicinity. You probably know a lot of this from having had cats before, just apply it to this new scenario of cat+dog. The more calm and confident you are when they're together, the more both of them will read such situations as okay and nothing to worry about, and the smoother it will go.
posted by Mizu at 8:55 AM on December 28, 2018 [8 favorites]
However, I've seen the cat swipe at the dog when the cat is on a higher level (a chair seat, say) and the dog walks by, not paying attention to the cat. I can't tell if it's claws-in or claws-out. The dog kind of freaks out and runs away.
Our cats sometimes do this with each other. Sometimes it's a mildly territorial, "I was here first" thing. We don't worry about cat chess (the full rules are unfathomable to anyone who's not a cat) unless it escalates to litterbox issues or stalking.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 8:59 AM on December 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Our cats sometimes do this with each other. Sometimes it's a mildly territorial, "I was here first" thing. We don't worry about cat chess (the full rules are unfathomable to anyone who's not a cat) unless it escalates to litterbox issues or stalking.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 8:59 AM on December 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
They are getting along splendidly. No blood, nobody is cowering, no scary loud growls from either? You're good.
My cat occasionally gives me a swat if I pass by the chair she's occupying. I take it as she's trying to provoke a reaction.
posted by Fig at 9:02 AM on December 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
My cat occasionally gives me a swat if I pass by the chair she's occupying. I take it as she's trying to provoke a reaction.
posted by Fig at 9:02 AM on December 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Mizu, thank you for the tail guide! When kitty comes inside from being out and sees doggo, her tail is up like !!! I haven't so far seen her with twitchy annoyed tail. Standard is up and relaxed.
And thank you guys for the "stalking" info; great observation. I haven't seen this happen so far.
You are all soothing my worries!
posted by taz at 9:03 AM on December 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
And thank you guys for the "stalking" info; great observation. I haven't seen this happen so far.
You are all soothing my worries!
posted by taz at 9:03 AM on December 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
Sounds normal to positive for early stages. My 3 cats love my dog and terrorise-adore her. They have all bitten dog, swiped dog with claws and hidden from dog. I think maybe key is to discipline dog firmly (I just yell and act v. disappointed in dog who is inconsolable) if dog ever is unpleasant towards cats. As a result, my dog is lowest in pecking order, eats last after all cats etc. Cats basically treat dog as walking sofa, dog treats them as beautiful gods.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:08 AM on December 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:08 AM on December 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
Came here to say: yes, anything short of dog trying to violently attack cat on the first day is excellent, they will be fine. (This happened to me growing up, and we could not allow them to be in the same room, ever.)
posted by Melismata at 9:11 AM on December 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 9:11 AM on December 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
It sounds like it's going very well already. I think you will at least have your Just Fine outcome, with Fantastic Good being a possibility in time. Congrats!
posted by Stewriffic at 9:33 AM on December 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Stewriffic at 9:33 AM on December 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
I agree that it sounds like it's going fine.
One thing you should do is make sure the cat has some space where they can retreat from the dog. Swiping can be an attempt at play, but it could also be that the cat feels threatened by having this much larger animal in their space. Giving them a space that the dog can't come close to can help defuse the stress, and help them get along better in the long run. This could be something like a tall cat tree, a bed the dog's not allowed on, etc.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:08 AM on December 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
One thing you should do is make sure the cat has some space where they can retreat from the dog. Swiping can be an attempt at play, but it could also be that the cat feels threatened by having this much larger animal in their space. Giving them a space that the dog can't come close to can help defuse the stress, and help them get along better in the long run. This could be something like a tall cat tree, a bed the dog's not allowed on, etc.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:08 AM on December 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
It sounds to me (three cats, one dog) like things are going really, really well. We observed with our menagerie that dogs and cats speak different languages but once they both sort of realize that, they adjust accordingly and only occasionally do things get lost in translation.
Make sure doggo always has a place to escape if she's feeling overwhelmed by cat, and vice versa. And because dogs are generally more lethal to cats than the other way around, we trained our dog to back off immediately if one of the cats seemed ready to rumble. That hasn't happened in years but if it does, he gets the command to go to his crate and he does so.
Our dog and and our youngest cat (who we got when she was tiiiiiiiiny and was bottle fed) are besties. Finley (cat) will actively seek out Emery (dog) to snuggle with him. It is ADORABLE. And when they play together, it's so cool to see them working out what each other's languages are.
posted by cooker girl at 10:11 AM on December 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Make sure doggo always has a place to escape if she's feeling overwhelmed by cat, and vice versa. And because dogs are generally more lethal to cats than the other way around, we trained our dog to back off immediately if one of the cats seemed ready to rumble. That hasn't happened in years but if it does, he gets the command to go to his crate and he does so.
Our dog and and our youngest cat (who we got when she was tiiiiiiiiny and was bottle fed) are besties. Finley (cat) will actively seek out Emery (dog) to snuggle with him. It is ADORABLE. And when they play together, it's so cool to see them working out what each other's languages are.
posted by cooker girl at 10:11 AM on December 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
I came here just to echo everyone (it sounds very healthy/normal/good!) but also second Kutsuwamushi about the built space - cats often feel more secure when moving around aboveground, so ideally they always have a space (table, sturdy shelf, cat tree, whatever) to escape upwards to and even more ideally they have a way to move around the entire room without touching the floor. This can be on the existing furniture - just make sure enough of it is dog-proof so that she has those secure outlets.
Generally speaking I think most healthy dog/cat relationships are fostered by people who monitor initial behavior, continuously monitor all animals for signs of stress, and then where moments of stress happen (and they almost always do) they either alter the space or train the transgressor to obviate that situation as much as possible going forward. Plus, for the minor stuff, they let the animals work it out for themselves. Most of the time that means the cat is the boss - but you want to be careful that boss != bully, and that the dog is okay with that.
posted by mosst at 11:38 AM on December 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Generally speaking I think most healthy dog/cat relationships are fostered by people who monitor initial behavior, continuously monitor all animals for signs of stress, and then where moments of stress happen (and they almost always do) they either alter the space or train the transgressor to obviate that situation as much as possible going forward. Plus, for the minor stuff, they let the animals work it out for themselves. Most of the time that means the cat is the boss - but you want to be careful that boss != bully, and that the dog is okay with that.
posted by mosst at 11:38 AM on December 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
We've had dogs and cats for a long time, and really pretty much everything you describe (including your update) indicates your dog and cat are either already good friends (for two creatures that speak different languages) or are well on their way.
Even if your cat seems to not "hang out" or play with your dog, it doesn't mean the cat dislikes the dog -- we had a cat who barely even acknowledged one particular dog, but when he went to a petsitter while we were on vacation the cat clearly was glad he returned (weird and nervous until after we picked him up) , and when the dog passed away the cat was clearly in mourning over him. Our current cat and dog were raised together and are besties. It all depends on their personalities...like people too.
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:22 PM on December 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
Even if your cat seems to not "hang out" or play with your dog, it doesn't mean the cat dislikes the dog -- we had a cat who barely even acknowledged one particular dog, but when he went to a petsitter while we were on vacation the cat clearly was glad he returned (weird and nervous until after we picked him up) , and when the dog passed away the cat was clearly in mourning over him. Our current cat and dog were raised together and are besties. It all depends on their personalities...like people too.
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:22 PM on December 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
My German Shepherd used to have sparring matches with the adult rescue cat I'd adopted. Dog would snap at cat, who would bat at dog's nose. It sounds pretty scary, but neither of them was seriously trying to hurt. The cat's claws weren't out, and those big dog teeth never connected.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:37 PM on December 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:37 PM on December 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for the great answers from everyone! The update is that there's not much change, but "Just Fine scenario" is definitely achieved; they are super chill. Nose / butt greetings have increased a bit in both frequency and duration, and kitty would like to take it to the next level, but dog is still a bit wary. (Kitty tried a "rubbing up against" move, and dog growled briefly in surprise – all in all, a 3-second encounter.) But there's been no aggressive behavior from either of them.
Kitty has tons of places to get away from everyone, but dog does not, so the only place that I don't let the cat get onto is the dog's bed. If they were further along in a potentially lovey-dovey scenario I might let her go there if it seemed likely they might want to mutually snuggle, but I don't think we're there yet, and the dog needs her safe space.
Anyway, All Is Calm in Cat + Dog Land is the update; thanks again! :)
posted by taz at 12:20 PM on February 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
Kitty has tons of places to get away from everyone, but dog does not, so the only place that I don't let the cat get onto is the dog's bed. If they were further along in a potentially lovey-dovey scenario I might let her go there if it seemed likely they might want to mutually snuggle, but I don't think we're there yet, and the dog needs her safe space.
Anyway, All Is Calm in Cat + Dog Land is the update; thanks again! :)
posted by taz at 12:20 PM on February 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by HeyAllie at 8:32 AM on December 28, 2018 [4 favorites]