Some questions about a trip to Europe...
February 20, 2006 12:01 PM Subscribe
Geneva, Amsterdam, Vienna, Salzburg: ask.mefiers, help me with some questions about a big European trip?
So, i'm going to Amsterdam in mid June. 3 days after my trip to Amsterdam is supposed to end (work trip), me and my girlfriend have vacation in Geneva, Vienna, and Salzburg. I have a series of questions about this trip.
1. How do I work out the visas? My thought was to go to Amsterdam for work, then have my "return trip" towards the end of our real trip so that part of my cost would be paid for, but I don't know if this is legal or could really happen. This would mean i'd have to make two trips back and forth, which is great for my frequent flier miles but bad for my body. :-)
2. Is there a train from Geneva to Vienna, or Amsterdam to Geneva? Or both?
3. What is there to do that I shouldn't miss in Geneva and Vienna? Salzburg is booked.
4. Any recommendations on nice hotels?
5. Beyond what I read in travel guides and already on ask.mefi, any advice for first time visitors to Europe?
So, i'm going to Amsterdam in mid June. 3 days after my trip to Amsterdam is supposed to end (work trip), me and my girlfriend have vacation in Geneva, Vienna, and Salzburg. I have a series of questions about this trip.
1. How do I work out the visas? My thought was to go to Amsterdam for work, then have my "return trip" towards the end of our real trip so that part of my cost would be paid for, but I don't know if this is legal or could really happen. This would mean i'd have to make two trips back and forth, which is great for my frequent flier miles but bad for my body. :-)
2. Is there a train from Geneva to Vienna, or Amsterdam to Geneva? Or both?
3. What is there to do that I shouldn't miss in Geneva and Vienna? Salzburg is booked.
4. Any recommendations on nice hotels?
5. Beyond what I read in travel guides and already on ask.mefi, any advice for first time visitors to Europe?
1: Assuming you're an American (your profile says you're in Atlanta) you don't need visas in the EU or Switzerlandfor tourist/business trips less than 90 days. When in doubt, ask the State Department.
2: Geneva-Vienna, I think so. Never did Amsterdam-Geneva. I'd check the SBB (Swiss rail) website for schedules, prices, etc. or go directly to Eurail. Eurail passes are, like, the way to travel around Europe by train. But do your homework before you go because the good country-by-country rates can only be bought outside of the EU.
4: Your budget is really important. In Vienna I stayed in the Le Meridien because there was a super-cheap rate through our airline (NWA). It's an awesome hotel and location, but not always low-cost.
5: Make sure to see some places other than the major capital cities. In Switzerland, I'd recommend Zurich over Geneva and could recommend several small towns in the German side. Don't rush. Walk a lot. Learn a couple key phrases in local languages so you don't have to shout at people in English to start a conversation.
posted by whatzit at 12:27 PM on February 20, 2006
2: Geneva-Vienna, I think so. Never did Amsterdam-Geneva. I'd check the SBB (Swiss rail) website for schedules, prices, etc. or go directly to Eurail. Eurail passes are, like, the way to travel around Europe by train. But do your homework before you go because the good country-by-country rates can only be bought outside of the EU.
4: Your budget is really important. In Vienna I stayed in the Le Meridien because there was a super-cheap rate through our airline (NWA). It's an awesome hotel and location, but not always low-cost.
5: Make sure to see some places other than the major capital cities. In Switzerland, I'd recommend Zurich over Geneva and could recommend several small towns in the German side. Don't rush. Walk a lot. Learn a couple key phrases in local languages so you don't have to shout at people in English to start a conversation.
posted by whatzit at 12:27 PM on February 20, 2006
The east-west train across Austria is scenic, but very slow (at least it used to be) due to the terrain. Check on an overnight Schlafwagen or Liegewagen (two different types of sleeper cars).
posted by tippiedog at 12:47 PM on February 20, 2006
posted by tippiedog at 12:47 PM on February 20, 2006
On top of number9dream's (excellent) advice to go see the Hundertwasser House, if you're interested in museums I'd recommend going to the Museumsquartier as well. It's right in the middle of town just off the Ring, easily accessible by tram, metro or bus, and right next to it is Mariahilferstrasse, which is the place to go if you or your girlfriend want to go shopping. Also, if you have any interest in nightlife I'd recommend that you browse the bars around Schwedenplatz!
posted by raevyne at 12:47 PM on February 20, 2006
posted by raevyne at 12:47 PM on February 20, 2006
sorry, i forgot to mention (if it's unclear) that all of the above applies only to Vienna. enjoy your trip!
posted by raevyne at 12:49 PM on February 20, 2006
posted by raevyne at 12:49 PM on February 20, 2006
Summer in Geneva and you must take a boat on the lake. I would recommend a trip to Yvoire, have some lunch and a mooch about and then the boat back. The train along the north coast of the lake is worth a trip too. Montreux is nice, as is Lausanne with the Olympic Museum.
As Whatzit says though, Zurich too is well worth a visit - is only 3 hrs by train and is much livelier than Geneva if nightlife and bars are your thing.
posted by jontyjago at 1:03 PM on February 20, 2006
As Whatzit says though, Zurich too is well worth a visit - is only 3 hrs by train and is much livelier than Geneva if nightlife and bars are your thing.
posted by jontyjago at 1:03 PM on February 20, 2006
Heh, jontyjago, I guess that's true about nightlife and bars but those aren't even what I loved about Zurich: It has a small-town-big-city atmosphere, if that makes sense. You can go into the hills, swim in the lake, jump off the bridges into a clean cool river (the Limmat, and yes, locals do this), enjoy the parks, and go to museums, all really really easily (the city is immensely walkable and has great public transportation).
If you do consider that side of Switzerland, I have to add Luzerne as a lovely place to go: covered bridges, churches, more parks, and it's nestled in the mountains. Lots of shopping, if you're into that.
But the smaller towns are where it's at! The canton of Glarus has to be my favorite, and I have spent a lot of time in the little village of Braunwald, high up in the Alps. This is a great little village which is accessible by funicular from the train station in Linthal. It's such a great place to kick back and enjoy the mountains, and all the little inns can hook you up with hiking trails, archery, horses, whatever, and June is the best time of year to do it. Another favorite of mine in that area is the bike ride from Linthal to Glarus (town, capital of Glarus canton): it's all downhill, so you don't have to be in tip-top shape, and you can rent bikes at one end and leave them at the other. Along the way, you're riding through the Alpine foothills along a (cold) clean river, passing through little towns and through foresty areas. Also from Braunwald you can get into "Gumen" and there are many ski-lifts that link different isolated trails and lodges. So neat. If you do go to Braunwald, do stay at the family-run Hotel Alpenblick.
posted by whatzit at 1:19 PM on February 20, 2006
1. Americans don't need visas for most anywhere they actually want to go these days, including almost everything in Europe (even Ukraine now!)
2. Die Bahn in English for all of Europe; Österreichische Bahn in English for Austria, etc.
3. In Vienna: the Belvedere Gallery is excellent and essential, and in a lovely palace. The Hundertwasser house is anything but, in my opinion (how garish!), but still a fabulous recommendation and something you'll like to see. Go to the Naschmarkt; don't go to the Prater or the Schloss Schönbrunn. Find Cafe Hawelka, on Doroteengasse (i think?) in the center; it is possibly my favorite cafe in Europe.I also enjoyed seeing the houses of Freud and Wittgenstein, which are both open to the public. You can see manuscripts, collections, personal effects etc. in Freud's former residence on Berggasse; the Wittgenstein house is interesting because he designed it himself (and with an iron hand, apparently, down to the most minute details), although it's now occupied by the Bulgarian Cultural Institute and they won't let you into every room.
4. Sorry, i know nothing about hotels.
5. Go to Budapest! Amazing architecture, Turkish baths, etc. and it will be a vacation for your wallet after Switzerland and Austria. It's quite close to Wien, and an excellent complement/contrast to everything else you'll be seeing, as it was the capital of the other half of the big empire. (Well, so was Bratislava for a while, but you needn't go there, really.)
Also, Google for English-language weeklies in every city you'll visit to see if there's anything special going on while you're in town. Make notes from your guidebooks and other sources with addresses of things you'd like to see, exchange rates, train schedules and suchlike in a small notebook you can carry in your pocket before you go so you don't have to waste your time and energy over these things while you could be enjoying yourself. And don't stress out over languages, but do learn how to say "thank you" in the relevant ones (it's not 'danke shayne', people!).
posted by xanthippe at 1:47 PM on February 20, 2006
2. Die Bahn in English for all of Europe; Österreichische Bahn in English for Austria, etc.
3. In Vienna: the Belvedere Gallery is excellent and essential, and in a lovely palace. The Hundertwasser house is anything but, in my opinion (how garish!), but still a fabulous recommendation and something you'll like to see. Go to the Naschmarkt; don't go to the Prater or the Schloss Schönbrunn. Find Cafe Hawelka, on Doroteengasse (i think?) in the center; it is possibly my favorite cafe in Europe.I also enjoyed seeing the houses of Freud and Wittgenstein, which are both open to the public. You can see manuscripts, collections, personal effects etc. in Freud's former residence on Berggasse; the Wittgenstein house is interesting because he designed it himself (and with an iron hand, apparently, down to the most minute details), although it's now occupied by the Bulgarian Cultural Institute and they won't let you into every room.
4. Sorry, i know nothing about hotels.
5. Go to Budapest! Amazing architecture, Turkish baths, etc. and it will be a vacation for your wallet after Switzerland and Austria. It's quite close to Wien, and an excellent complement/contrast to everything else you'll be seeing, as it was the capital of the other half of the big empire. (Well, so was Bratislava for a while, but you needn't go there, really.)
Also, Google for English-language weeklies in every city you'll visit to see if there's anything special going on while you're in town. Make notes from your guidebooks and other sources with addresses of things you'd like to see, exchange rates, train schedules and suchlike in a small notebook you can carry in your pocket before you go so you don't have to waste your time and energy over these things while you could be enjoying yourself. And don't stress out over languages, but do learn how to say "thank you" in the relevant ones (it's not 'danke shayne', people!).
posted by xanthippe at 1:47 PM on February 20, 2006
Oh, and eat lots of curry wurst. There's also a place called the Goulash Museum somewhere in the center of Vienna with a very long menu... (though if you do decide to come to Budapest, you can wait for the real thing).
posted by xanthippe at 2:25 PM on February 20, 2006
posted by xanthippe at 2:25 PM on February 20, 2006
I fourth the Hundertwasser house in Vienna.
I also want to give out a warning regarding the tourist trap that is the Spanish Riding school: what you see when you get there is a "training", which consists of music and horses, but there is absolutely no correlation between the music and what the horses are doing. I can imagine they put on a nice show, but don't pay to see the horses train unless you REALLY, really, really, really love horses and/or stale Mozart and Strauss tunes.
I also enjoyed the ferris wheel in Vienna. It's famous from "The Third Man" movie, and it gives a great view of the city.
I don't know about hotels, I always stay in hoStels, and there is a hostel in Vienna that jokes about the common Austria/Australia mixup among some tourists. I think it's called Wombat hostel (or else another Australian animal) and it's all AustrALia-themed and very decent.
posted by easternblot at 2:32 PM on February 20, 2006
I also want to give out a warning regarding the tourist trap that is the Spanish Riding school: what you see when you get there is a "training", which consists of music and horses, but there is absolutely no correlation between the music and what the horses are doing. I can imagine they put on a nice show, but don't pay to see the horses train unless you REALLY, really, really, really love horses and/or stale Mozart and Strauss tunes.
I also enjoyed the ferris wheel in Vienna. It's famous from "The Third Man" movie, and it gives a great view of the city.
I don't know about hotels, I always stay in hoStels, and there is a hostel in Vienna that jokes about the common Austria/Australia mixup among some tourists. I think it's called Wombat hostel (or else another Australian animal) and it's all AustrALia-themed and very decent.
posted by easternblot at 2:32 PM on February 20, 2006
I rode a night train from Vienna all the way to Amsterdam.
Remember that going to Geneva, you'll have border checks at the Swiss frontier but everywhere else in your itinerary, you won't even need your passport (unless an innkeeper requests it for collateral) much less a visa, if you are in fact a USAsian -- questions like this should always include that detail (or -- perhaps you're going to be in Amsterdam so long you're getting a work visa?)
And yeah go to Budapest, the Best of Europe!
posted by Rash at 4:54 PM on February 20, 2006
Remember that going to Geneva, you'll have border checks at the Swiss frontier but everywhere else in your itinerary, you won't even need your passport (unless an innkeeper requests it for collateral) much less a visa, if you are in fact a USAsian -- questions like this should always include that detail (or -- perhaps you're going to be in Amsterdam so long you're getting a work visa?)
And yeah go to Budapest, the Best of Europe!
posted by Rash at 4:54 PM on February 20, 2006
1. There is no curry wurst outside of Berlin. It is a bratwurst squirted with ketchup and curry powder. Pass on it.
2. Vienna kind of sucks. Miserably. Whooo! Amazingly. But this is a personal opinion. Shared by everybody I know.
3. Eat in France, Belgium, and Italy. Don't eat anywhere else. Except Portugal.
4. In Geneva I bought a Swiss Army knife because it was cheaper than buying a half portion sized falafel.
5. The national dish of Lichtenstein is hot dogs in gravy with little spatzl noodles.
6. Slovenia is the neatest place in Europe. It has the best of Vienna, Switzerland, or Northern Italy, but is the size of Rhode Island.
7. Budapest. Dang, I live here, but yeah, worth a visit if only to get out of Vienna. Do not believe the New York Times article that appeared a couple of months ago: There is no amazing Asian food revolution happening among the chefs at the rip-off-the-yuppoisie restaurants along Andrássy ut. (Really. The things freelance hacks will write....)
posted by zaelic at 5:36 PM on February 20, 2006
2. Vienna kind of sucks. Miserably. Whooo! Amazingly. But this is a personal opinion. Shared by everybody I know.
3. Eat in France, Belgium, and Italy. Don't eat anywhere else. Except Portugal.
4. In Geneva I bought a Swiss Army knife because it was cheaper than buying a half portion sized falafel.
5. The national dish of Lichtenstein is hot dogs in gravy with little spatzl noodles.
6. Slovenia is the neatest place in Europe. It has the best of Vienna, Switzerland, or Northern Italy, but is the size of Rhode Island.
7. Budapest. Dang, I live here, but yeah, worth a visit if only to get out of Vienna. Do not believe the New York Times article that appeared a couple of months ago: There is no amazing Asian food revolution happening among the chefs at the rip-off-the-yuppoisie restaurants along Andrássy ut. (Really. The things freelance hacks will write....)
posted by zaelic at 5:36 PM on February 20, 2006
In Switzerland:
Basel is an old town with all kinds of neat buildings. The Kunstmuseum has a pretty good art collection, too. A nice day trip from Zurich; about an hour and half by train.
Schaffhausen/Neuhausen is where the Rheinfalls (Europe's largest waterfall) is. They're quaint little Swiss towns with castles and towers and cobbled squares and whatnot. There's also a lodge of some posh sort that overlooks the Rheinfalls.
Besides that:
Paris is only three hours from Amsterdam! Go to Paris!
Prague is beautiful and there's plenty to do, but I felt like it was overhyped. It's almost too perfect, you know? Like Disney's vision of what an Eastern European fairyland looks like. Plus it's chock-full of tourists. Especially the obnoxious Italian high school sort.
I hear amazing things about Berlin these days, but I haven't been yet.
posted by anjamu at 5:48 PM on February 20, 2006
Basel is an old town with all kinds of neat buildings. The Kunstmuseum has a pretty good art collection, too. A nice day trip from Zurich; about an hour and half by train.
Schaffhausen/Neuhausen is where the Rheinfalls (Europe's largest waterfall) is. They're quaint little Swiss towns with castles and towers and cobbled squares and whatnot. There's also a lodge of some posh sort that overlooks the Rheinfalls.
Besides that:
Paris is only three hours from Amsterdam! Go to Paris!
Prague is beautiful and there's plenty to do, but I felt like it was overhyped. It's almost too perfect, you know? Like Disney's vision of what an Eastern European fairyland looks like. Plus it's chock-full of tourists. Especially the obnoxious Italian high school sort.
I hear amazing things about Berlin these days, but I haven't been yet.
posted by anjamu at 5:48 PM on February 20, 2006
Sorry. Sour mood. Let me go for the positives:
1. In Holland, Leiden or Gouda are smaller towns that offer everything that Amsterdam does, but are actually more picturesque and friendly, and only a half hour away from Amsterdam by train.
2. Alpine countries have lots of cute private inns we call "Heidi Hotels" but Alpine cuisine - because of the climate - is often kind of flat and heavy. Good cheeses!
4. After Salzburg, Vienna would be a letdown unless you are some kind of Hapsburg hobbyist. Smaller towns or Bpest wouldbe better.
5. Smaller resort towns in the Tirol or outskirts of Salzburg offer lots of outdoor activities and opportunities to meet vacationing locals.
6. Vienna sucks. Basically bad chocolate cakes, ornate facades, nasty waiters, cold xenophobic people, kitsch souvenirs, bad food, and conversations with the locals rapidly veer into how much they hate their Turkish and Bosnian guestworkers, without whom they could not survive.
7. Sorry, was going to be positive. Vienna has local color and a great tradition of culture.
posted by zaelic at 5:55 PM on February 20, 2006
1. In Holland, Leiden or Gouda are smaller towns that offer everything that Amsterdam does, but are actually more picturesque and friendly, and only a half hour away from Amsterdam by train.
2. Alpine countries have lots of cute private inns we call "Heidi Hotels" but Alpine cuisine - because of the climate - is often kind of flat and heavy. Good cheeses!
4. After Salzburg, Vienna would be a letdown unless you are some kind of Hapsburg hobbyist. Smaller towns or Bpest wouldbe better.
5. Smaller resort towns in the Tirol or outskirts of Salzburg offer lots of outdoor activities and opportunities to meet vacationing locals.
6. Vienna sucks. Basically bad chocolate cakes, ornate facades, nasty waiters, cold xenophobic people, kitsch souvenirs, bad food, and conversations with the locals rapidly veer into how much they hate their Turkish and Bosnian guestworkers, without whom they could not survive.
7. Sorry, was going to be positive. Vienna has local color and a great tradition of culture.
posted by zaelic at 5:55 PM on February 20, 2006
Oh, and another thing, cheese-wise: if you can find it at a restaurant, try some Raclette, grill and all. Good stuff. In Switzerland most likely?
posted by anjamu at 6:03 PM on February 20, 2006
posted by anjamu at 6:03 PM on February 20, 2006
There is no curry wurst outside of Berlin.
Jai! Sorry, my confusion. (Haven't been in Vienna or Berlin for a while.) There is, however, an abundance of wursts of other varieties available on every street corner in Vienna...
Vienna kind of sucks. But this is a personal opinion. Shared by everybody I know.
And me. It is an ugly, gloomy, and even boring city in my opinion, in addition to everything zaelic said. There is plenty to do, but go for the cultural attractions if you're really interested in them, not for the atmosphere. (Some Hungarians i know used to go for the shopping, too, but malls are sprouting like mushrooms here so it's hardly necessary.)
posted by xanthippe at 2:50 AM on February 21, 2006
Jai! Sorry, my confusion. (Haven't been in Vienna or Berlin for a while.) There is, however, an abundance of wursts of other varieties available on every street corner in Vienna...
Vienna kind of sucks. But this is a personal opinion. Shared by everybody I know.
And me. It is an ugly, gloomy, and even boring city in my opinion, in addition to everything zaelic said. There is plenty to do, but go for the cultural attractions if you're really interested in them, not for the atmosphere. (Some Hungarians i know used to go for the shopping, too, but malls are sprouting like mushrooms here so it's hardly necessary.)
posted by xanthippe at 2:50 AM on February 21, 2006
This site links you to pretty much all the railway timetables in Europe so you can plan your rail journey. Switzerland may prove to be a bit of a pain to get across due to multiple companies operating different parts of the system and the geography. I've done Zurich - Salzburg - Zurich a couple of times and it's fairly straightforward but a bit slow, Salzburg - Vienna will just be an add on to that. A sleeper train can be useful but I think you would be ill-advised not to have at least one rail trip through mountainous areas during the day.
I agree with the others on Vienna. I think I would even go from Salzburg to Munich before I would bother with Vienna again.
posted by biffa at 3:07 AM on February 21, 2006
I agree with the others on Vienna. I think I would even go from Salzburg to Munich before I would bother with Vienna again.
posted by biffa at 3:07 AM on February 21, 2006
The only really good day I spent in Vienna involved going to the Schmetterlingshaus while it was snowing outside, then having desert next door at the Palmenhaus (the first friendly waiters we encountered) and finishing up at the Christmas Market eating sausages stuffed with cheese and drinking hot spiced alcoholic yumminess, also in the snow. Aside from that, I didn't find Vienna particularly worthwhile, but if I went again, I'd try and take a boat trip from Vienna to Budapest.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:25 PM on February 21, 2006
posted by oneirodynia at 8:25 PM on February 21, 2006
Servus...
Wow, Vienna's getting a bad rap. I like it well enough that I chose to end my backpacking trip here in late summer of 2000 and find a job. I'm still here. It's gloomy in the winter, but summer is nice (usually even amazing). I know lots of expats who call Vienna home - many who've stayed here much longer than they expected (I planned on staying one night when I first came). Try not to let the negative comments on Vienna tinge your stay here. I know many fans of the city. If you have any specific questions, feel free to email me (address in profile) or check out my blog (address also in profile).
posted by syzygy at 11:24 AM on March 13, 2006
Wow, Vienna's getting a bad rap. I like it well enough that I chose to end my backpacking trip here in late summer of 2000 and find a job. I'm still here. It's gloomy in the winter, but summer is nice (usually even amazing). I know lots of expats who call Vienna home - many who've stayed here much longer than they expected (I planned on staying one night when I first came). Try not to let the negative comments on Vienna tinge your stay here. I know many fans of the city. If you have any specific questions, feel free to email me (address in profile) or check out my blog (address also in profile).
posted by syzygy at 11:24 AM on March 13, 2006
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posted by number9dream at 12:17 PM on February 20, 2006