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December 14, 2018 9:43 AM Subscribe
I hate Christmas. How do I not ruin Christmas for my children?
For reasons (childhood trauma, etc) I won't get into, I deeply and angrily hate Christmas. I loathe everything about it -- the presents, the enforced cultural expectations, the lights, the consumerism, the carols. I feel nothing but antipathy for the holiday and everything related to it.
My oldest is four-and-a-half years old and this is the first year he really gets Christmas. He LOVES it. It's magical for him. So far my wife and I have done OK splitting things up. They decorated the tree together and read Christmas books every night. I excuse myself ("I need to run upstairs and get something") when he starts singing carols. But he's starting to see through it. He's noticing that Dad quietly steps out of the room whenever Christmas comes up. Or that Dad "is cooking dinner and can't come right now" whenever he and my wife are doing something holiday-related in the evenings.
My crap is my own to deal with. I never want to take away from the joy he (and eventually his little brother) feels about Christmas. While he's a child I don't want him to see how upsetting I find this holiday. It's something he can figure out on his own as he gets older. But I don't know how to balance that with my ongoing and barely contained emotional response (anger, anxiety, depression) to the holiday season.
Do you hate Christmas? How do you balance that with your kids or family?
(Please no answers about how I should learn to like Christmas because seriously fuck this holiday.)
For reasons (childhood trauma, etc) I won't get into, I deeply and angrily hate Christmas. I loathe everything about it -- the presents, the enforced cultural expectations, the lights, the consumerism, the carols. I feel nothing but antipathy for the holiday and everything related to it.
My oldest is four-and-a-half years old and this is the first year he really gets Christmas. He LOVES it. It's magical for him. So far my wife and I have done OK splitting things up. They decorated the tree together and read Christmas books every night. I excuse myself ("I need to run upstairs and get something") when he starts singing carols. But he's starting to see through it. He's noticing that Dad quietly steps out of the room whenever Christmas comes up. Or that Dad "is cooking dinner and can't come right now" whenever he and my wife are doing something holiday-related in the evenings.
My crap is my own to deal with. I never want to take away from the joy he (and eventually his little brother) feels about Christmas. While he's a child I don't want him to see how upsetting I find this holiday. It's something he can figure out on his own as he gets older. But I don't know how to balance that with my ongoing and barely contained emotional response (anger, anxiety, depression) to the holiday season.
Do you hate Christmas? How do you balance that with your kids or family?
(Please no answers about how I should learn to like Christmas because seriously fuck this holiday.)
Make it all about your wife and your kid, and not at all about you. Christmas lends itself to that, and so does fatherhood. Make some other holiday about you, and for Christmas be the host, not the guest.
Do have some celebration of your own though, and some way they can participate in it.
posted by ckridge at 9:57 AM on December 14, 2018 [33 favorites]
Do have some celebration of your own though, and some way they can participate in it.
posted by ckridge at 9:57 AM on December 14, 2018 [33 favorites]
Create nice traditions for your children that they can specifically attribute as "something they always did with Daddy at Xmas"
For example, you mention something in your post about cooking.... Can you spend half a day doing some special festive cooking / baking with your son? Making cookies is fun and it's an everyday kind of activity that isn't specific to Xmas... your kids will have so much fun decorating the cookies they made with Dad and that's the kind of memory that doesn't go away, they'll cherish it when they get older.
Now that I am a jaded adult I find the things I mostly love about Xmas are those kind of memories...
This time of year sounds very distressing to you and I admire that you're trying to create happy memories for your children rather than be the reason that THEY hate Christmas when they are older!
posted by JenThePro at 9:57 AM on December 14, 2018 [31 favorites]
For example, you mention something in your post about cooking.... Can you spend half a day doing some special festive cooking / baking with your son? Making cookies is fun and it's an everyday kind of activity that isn't specific to Xmas... your kids will have so much fun decorating the cookies they made with Dad and that's the kind of memory that doesn't go away, they'll cherish it when they get older.
Now that I am a jaded adult I find the things I mostly love about Xmas are those kind of memories...
This time of year sounds very distressing to you and I admire that you're trying to create happy memories for your children rather than be the reason that THEY hate Christmas when they are older!
posted by JenThePro at 9:57 AM on December 14, 2018 [31 favorites]
You gotta find something you can like about it if you're going to pull this off convincingly, because there is just so much Christmas that I don't see any other way to get through. I get that you have trauma around this, though. You will have to somehow detach your family's Christmas from the bad Christmases of your childhood, and start fresh. Partially, at least.
I think it's time to make some new traditions. Take it back to basics—what is Christmas supposed to be about? Family, giving, tradition, seasonal festivity, and if you're a Christian then Jesus. Those are good things, right? So try to think about all this through those lenses. Your family has broad license to reshape Christmas in whatever ways work for you, and you should sit down with your wife and talk about how you are going to do that. You can cut out the traditions that you hate, recontextualize ones that can be recontextualized, and invent new traditions as necessary. You and your family can make your own Christmas. Your kids will inevitably absorb some Outside Christmas and you'll have to find ways to put up with that, but I think you can change up enough of this stuff that you can find or create some things you like and value.
Take control of Christmas. Make it something different, something better for your family. It can be done.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:57 AM on December 14, 2018 [34 favorites]
I think it's time to make some new traditions. Take it back to basics—what is Christmas supposed to be about? Family, giving, tradition, seasonal festivity, and if you're a Christian then Jesus. Those are good things, right? So try to think about all this through those lenses. Your family has broad license to reshape Christmas in whatever ways work for you, and you should sit down with your wife and talk about how you are going to do that. You can cut out the traditions that you hate, recontextualize ones that can be recontextualized, and invent new traditions as necessary. You and your family can make your own Christmas. Your kids will inevitably absorb some Outside Christmas and you'll have to find ways to put up with that, but I think you can change up enough of this stuff that you can find or create some things you like and value.
Take control of Christmas. Make it something different, something better for your family. It can be done.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:57 AM on December 14, 2018 [34 favorites]
Do you have other religious or cultural practices you could draw on for this time of year? Or could you focus on the winter solstice and the shortest night of the year? Candles, bonfire (if you're able or have a local one you can visit), festive beverages like mulled cider (mead is a great one for adults--I think alcohol made from honey is like drinking the sun), citrus fruits for their bright pop of flavor and sun-like colors.
How invested in Christmas is your wife? Could you move the focus to New Year's? It used to be traditional to exchange gifts at New Year's. Or if you're stuck doing both, make New Year's a time to exchange only handmade gifts with one another. Connect with family and friends, throw a party, watch fireworks, go to local celebrations (like First Night).
Do you live somewhere where snow happens? Sledding, ice skating (doable even in non-wintry places at indoor rinks), snow shoeing, snowball fights, snow people & ice sculptures can be great ways to connect with kids.
posted by carrioncomfort at 9:59 AM on December 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
How invested in Christmas is your wife? Could you move the focus to New Year's? It used to be traditional to exchange gifts at New Year's. Or if you're stuck doing both, make New Year's a time to exchange only handmade gifts with one another. Connect with family and friends, throw a party, watch fireworks, go to local celebrations (like First Night).
Do you live somewhere where snow happens? Sledding, ice skating (doable even in non-wintry places at indoor rinks), snow shoeing, snowball fights, snow people & ice sculptures can be great ways to connect with kids.
posted by carrioncomfort at 9:59 AM on December 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
This probably isn't the answer your family is looking for, but just don't celebrate it. There's no reason to hew to tradition if the tradition isn't right for you; most of us in the secular world pick and choose our spiritual (or spiritually-descended) traditions willy-nilly, and if your family isn't celebrating Christmas in active observance of the birth of Christ (which is the whole point, right?), there's no reason to arbitrarily glom on to contemporary -- but frankly arbitrary -- cultural traditions, especially if they make you actively unhappy. Part of the magic for your kiddo is probably the lights and the ritual of a time of year that feels different. Decorating a tree is one way to do it, but there's no reason you can't develop specific Christian or secular rituals to practice in lieu of Christmas. As long as there's mythology involved to give it a "separate from this world we live in" feel (it doesn't have to be god mythology, either -- but if you want to, why not read The Odyssey together every year? It's a great story!), and gifts of some sort, make your own holiday! Or research other forms of Christianity. What do Orthodox Christians do? Or the Druze? Or etc, etc?
Also, you should consider exploring whatever backstory there is to your hatred of Christmas in therapy, but that's completely separate from how you choose to approach your own practice of the holiday season.
posted by tapir-whorf at 10:02 AM on December 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
Also, you should consider exploring whatever backstory there is to your hatred of Christmas in therapy, but that's completely separate from how you choose to approach your own practice of the holiday season.
posted by tapir-whorf at 10:02 AM on December 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
First of all, congratulations. You have recognized the problem and you are already putting your family first just by making this a goal. There are tons of kids who would be so much happier if their parents acknowledged difficulty and worked to give them a good time anyway, than what a lot of people do which is some combination of denial, too much alcohol/drugs and ending up being mean to someone. Seriously, good for you. After a few years you will have new memories to somewhat displace the old ones. But the way you feel is okay. You've got this.
posted by BibiRose at 10:03 AM on December 14, 2018 [30 favorites]
posted by BibiRose at 10:03 AM on December 14, 2018 [30 favorites]
You definitely don't need to learn to like Christmas. But can you appreciate that your son loves it? And maybe take joy in HIS joy?
I absolutely 100% do not want to make you feel guilty, because I think just asking this question means you're a pretty darned good dad, but my dad hated Christmas, too. And boy oh boy did we pick up on it and it absolutely colors my memories of my childhood Christmases, and that makes me sad. He absolutely didn't balance his hatred of the holiday with what the rest of us wanted (which was basically a drama-free, nice holiday).
You're aware of your bias (well-deserved bias), and that's good. Try to channel that awareness into making BETTER memories with your son.
posted by cooker girl at 10:06 AM on December 14, 2018 [21 favorites]
I absolutely 100% do not want to make you feel guilty, because I think just asking this question means you're a pretty darned good dad, but my dad hated Christmas, too. And boy oh boy did we pick up on it and it absolutely colors my memories of my childhood Christmases, and that makes me sad. He absolutely didn't balance his hatred of the holiday with what the rest of us wanted (which was basically a drama-free, nice holiday).
You're aware of your bias (well-deserved bias), and that's good. Try to channel that awareness into making BETTER memories with your son.
posted by cooker girl at 10:06 AM on December 14, 2018 [21 favorites]
I'm seeing a lot of disturbing advice in this thread, forcing not_the_water to interact with Christmas despite his history and his feelings. That's not cool.
That said, not_the_water, I think there's a very valuable lesson here for your son: Different people like different things, and that's okay. Not everybody has to like Christmas. Daddy doesn't like Christmas, and that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Daddy, nor does it mean that Daddy thinks there's anything wrong with people who do like Christmas. We can't always share all the things we love with all the people we love.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:07 AM on December 14, 2018 [10 favorites]
That said, not_the_water, I think there's a very valuable lesson here for your son: Different people like different things, and that's okay. Not everybody has to like Christmas. Daddy doesn't like Christmas, and that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Daddy, nor does it mean that Daddy thinks there's anything wrong with people who do like Christmas. We can't always share all the things we love with all the people we love.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:07 AM on December 14, 2018 [10 favorites]
I get this. My own kids are a three and nearly two and I have a LOT of angst about Christmas coming from my own family of origin. The consumerism. The insipid music. The unexamined gluttony. The expectations. It's too much.
These things have helped me:
1. Acknowledging how I feel and what I need. I can be in a mall for like 20 minutes this time of year, long enough to get one, maybe two gifts for somebody. Then I leave and that's okay. I'm not bad for needing to leave before I hulk out.
2. Poking further fun at the ridiculousness of it. I have a thing I do, where in my head I imagine that the carol I'm being annoyed by is being sung by an enthusiastic but very off-key Arnold Schwarzenegger, in one of those roles where he's just trying to be an ordinary dad who works a sales job or whatever. It's so fucking stupid that I can't help but laugh.
3. Make rituals for myself, that work with the end of the year and the darkness and so on. I put on some Beethoven and light a candle and reflect on who I am, a year later. Maybe I envision the year ahead, who I may be and what I may do when the light returns.
4. I'm a Catholic, so I really got into Advent as an alternative to "Christmas" which I still find kind of intolerable. In my religion, Advent is about waiting in the dark for a part of the universe to open up, impossibly, horribly, and let God enter into history, covered in blood and helplessly mewling. That's fucking weird and I am here for it. But Christianity isn't the only religion to have rituals and celebrations that have helped people get mark this time and get through it. You don't have to have Coca-Cola Santa and all that. You can get into something else.
5. A lot of having kids at this age is finding it in myself to enthuse about things I'm not necessarily into. Thomas the Tank Engine. Shaun the Sheep. Princesses. Glitter and sprinkles. I suck it up and deal, because it's more important for my kids to have a father who validates what's important to them than for me to exclusively be into the things that interest me in my middle age. Christmas is one of those things, you know?
7. Maybe related to 6: a lot of Christmas is not for me. But it is for people that I love, and I can let my own hurt about my parents stand between me and the people I love -- thereby perpetuating some of the things that hurt me about the holidays when I was a child -- or I can rise up, I can do the work with a therapist or inside myself to find some magnanimity inside myself about something that is special to the people I love.
posted by gauche at 10:08 AM on December 14, 2018 [35 favorites]
These things have helped me:
1. Acknowledging how I feel and what I need. I can be in a mall for like 20 minutes this time of year, long enough to get one, maybe two gifts for somebody. Then I leave and that's okay. I'm not bad for needing to leave before I hulk out.
2. Poking further fun at the ridiculousness of it. I have a thing I do, where in my head I imagine that the carol I'm being annoyed by is being sung by an enthusiastic but very off-key Arnold Schwarzenegger, in one of those roles where he's just trying to be an ordinary dad who works a sales job or whatever. It's so fucking stupid that I can't help but laugh.
3. Make rituals for myself, that work with the end of the year and the darkness and so on. I put on some Beethoven and light a candle and reflect on who I am, a year later. Maybe I envision the year ahead, who I may be and what I may do when the light returns.
4. I'm a Catholic, so I really got into Advent as an alternative to "Christmas" which I still find kind of intolerable. In my religion, Advent is about waiting in the dark for a part of the universe to open up, impossibly, horribly, and let God enter into history, covered in blood and helplessly mewling. That's fucking weird and I am here for it. But Christianity isn't the only religion to have rituals and celebrations that have helped people get mark this time and get through it. You don't have to have Coca-Cola Santa and all that. You can get into something else.
5. A lot of having kids at this age is finding it in myself to enthuse about things I'm not necessarily into. Thomas the Tank Engine. Shaun the Sheep. Princesses. Glitter and sprinkles. I suck it up and deal, because it's more important for my kids to have a father who validates what's important to them than for me to exclusively be into the things that interest me in my middle age. Christmas is one of those things, you know?
7. Maybe related to 6: a lot of Christmas is not for me. But it is for people that I love, and I can let my own hurt about my parents stand between me and the people I love -- thereby perpetuating some of the things that hurt me about the holidays when I was a child -- or I can rise up, I can do the work with a therapist or inside myself to find some magnanimity inside myself about something that is special to the people I love.
posted by gauche at 10:08 AM on December 14, 2018 [35 favorites]
I guess (to continue my earlier comment!) to me, hating Christmas but insisting on doing it anyway for your kids seems really strange. Opting out isn't going to harm them -- millions of Muslims, and Buddhists, and Jews opt out of Christmas and its ensuant consumerist BS every year. If you were, I dunno, vehemently against the institution of marriage, would you get married anyway in order to adhere to societal expectations? If you were gay, would you perform heterosexuality for the same reason? Your kid is four; he's not attached to Christmas itself, he's attached to the magical feel of the holidays, which you can extend at home in completely different ways. Start creating new ways of being a family together now, before you become entrenched in old ways that are arbitrary and make you unhappy. Your son can participate in Christmas outside the house just like most non-Christians do. I'm not Christian, but I grew up going to church with friends and acting in dorky Christmas plays at the local community theater. I had a great time! But when I came home, we lit Hanukkah candles.
posted by tapir-whorf at 10:10 AM on December 14, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by tapir-whorf at 10:10 AM on December 14, 2018 [11 favorites]
You don't ever have to like Christmas, but when you start talking about this "barely contained emotional response" and talking about your feelings in terms of anger, anxiety, and depression--I really, really think this is the kind of thing you need to see a therapist about. Therapy doesn't have to be about learning to conform to what everybody else likes or does. It can be about learning to manage your emotional responses to the things you don't like. The thing your kid is going to notice is not that you think Christmas is a bad idea, it's that you can't even tolerate being in the room with reminders of it.
Lots of people have had family members who were not into the Magic of Christmas and turned out totally fine. That's almost certainly not the part that's troubling your kid. Trying to just hide trauma like this is exactly how kids grow up themselves with inappropriate ideas about how to manage their own emotions. The harmful potential here isn't in you failing to do enough holiday stuff with your kids, it's in the way they see you, almost certainly more perceptibly upset than you think you are, avoiding them at times they consider happy. Managing your level of emotional response to stuff like this is a skill, and you can learn it, with help. After that point, you really don't have to be into it, you just have to be modeling good coping skills for not liking it. It's okay if your kids know you don't like stuff they like.
If you can't get a therapist, there are practical advice books on DBT (or dialectical behavioral therapy) that might be a good start. But again: It's not about getting over this, it's about getting to the point where you can strongly dislike a thing without being overwhelmed by those feelings.
posted by Sequence at 10:12 AM on December 14, 2018 [101 favorites]
Lots of people have had family members who were not into the Magic of Christmas and turned out totally fine. That's almost certainly not the part that's troubling your kid. Trying to just hide trauma like this is exactly how kids grow up themselves with inappropriate ideas about how to manage their own emotions. The harmful potential here isn't in you failing to do enough holiday stuff with your kids, it's in the way they see you, almost certainly more perceptibly upset than you think you are, avoiding them at times they consider happy. Managing your level of emotional response to stuff like this is a skill, and you can learn it, with help. After that point, you really don't have to be into it, you just have to be modeling good coping skills for not liking it. It's okay if your kids know you don't like stuff they like.
If you can't get a therapist, there are practical advice books on DBT (or dialectical behavioral therapy) that might be a good start. But again: It's not about getting over this, it's about getting to the point where you can strongly dislike a thing without being overwhelmed by those feelings.
posted by Sequence at 10:12 AM on December 14, 2018 [101 favorites]
Would it help if I told you that all the things your wife and kid love about Christmas are also part of a pan-religious, pansexual, personal pan holiday called Candlenights? It may seem like I am taking your question too lightly, as I am referencing a made up holiday from a comedy podcast, but I'm actually serious. You might be able to frame it in your mind that you and your family are not celebrating Christmas, but that you are celebrating Candlenights by decorating a tree and reading Christmas stories. You might even wrap some elements of other traditions into your Candlenights observations. Learn how to play Dreidel. Have a (good-natured) Airing of Grievances. Make your own Caga tió. Celebrate Wolfenoot.
posted by Rock Steady at 10:13 AM on December 14, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by Rock Steady at 10:13 AM on December 14, 2018 [11 favorites]
I hate Christmas, too, though not as strongly as you do. But I just kind of roll with it by really leaning into gauche's Point #2, above: Poking fun at the ridiculousness of it.
I love to take my son to see gaudy Christmas-lit houses because he gets a kick out of all the blinky, shiny stuff, and I get to silently muse about how tacky this whole ridiculous thing has become. I hate, HATE, HATE Christmas music, but I like to find playlists of the goofiest/worst (and/or most genuinely awesomely good) Christmas songs. (I actually searched on Spotify for "non-shitty Christmas music" and found a bunch!) I like to give and receive gifts of great uselessness and stupidity.
To me, Christmas is just ... Tuesday. But it can be an unusually goofy Tuesday on which I silently mock the utterly absurd Tuesdayishness of it all.
posted by Dr. Wu at 10:15 AM on December 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
I love to take my son to see gaudy Christmas-lit houses because he gets a kick out of all the blinky, shiny stuff, and I get to silently muse about how tacky this whole ridiculous thing has become. I hate, HATE, HATE Christmas music, but I like to find playlists of the goofiest/worst (and/or most genuinely awesomely good) Christmas songs. (I actually searched on Spotify for "non-shitty Christmas music" and found a bunch!) I like to give and receive gifts of great uselessness and stupidity.
To me, Christmas is just ... Tuesday. But it can be an unusually goofy Tuesday on which I silently mock the utterly absurd Tuesdayishness of it all.
posted by Dr. Wu at 10:15 AM on December 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
Hey, I hear you. I was raped etc. almost every Xmas of my youth.
Are you in therapy? Because that’s the best place to process for yourself. You cannot be fleeing a room in rage without it impacting on your family. Maybe this year you need to but start a project for 2019.
With my kids, I decided to enjoy the season but switch it up. I started with creating some new traditions to mitigate the old ones. So we have a big French-Canadian-like Christmas Eve dinner which includes both tourtiere and latkes (I know, I know), and we have a bunch of crafty things we do then (we draw on the windows with window markers - something my family would never have allowed.) We bake cookies (something not so linked to those times in my life) and I curate a playlist. We don't do masses of presents, we have kept it relatively in line with our values (basically one Santa gift, some stocking gifts includes movies see below, pjs, a book, and one other small gift per child.)
We have a tree but I decorate it partly with skulls.
On Xmas morning we do the traditional thing. On Xmas afternoon we have a tradition of doing something physically active like skating or hiking, something that gets us all out of the house and moving. On Boxing Day we always watch movies (which Santa brings) with piles of snacks. We don’t visit a lot of family on the day itself. I go to bed early on Xmas and read in bed, it's a luxury.
One thing I would caution you against is leaving Xmas in the hands of your partner. It’s a lot of work and effort. If you are truly anti-Xmas, you both need to be on the same page around expectations and how you will implement it.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:15 AM on December 14, 2018 [59 favorites]
Are you in therapy? Because that’s the best place to process for yourself. You cannot be fleeing a room in rage without it impacting on your family. Maybe this year you need to but start a project for 2019.
With my kids, I decided to enjoy the season but switch it up. I started with creating some new traditions to mitigate the old ones. So we have a big French-Canadian-like Christmas Eve dinner which includes both tourtiere and latkes (I know, I know), and we have a bunch of crafty things we do then (we draw on the windows with window markers - something my family would never have allowed.) We bake cookies (something not so linked to those times in my life) and I curate a playlist. We don't do masses of presents, we have kept it relatively in line with our values (basically one Santa gift, some stocking gifts includes movies see below, pjs, a book, and one other small gift per child.)
We have a tree but I decorate it partly with skulls.
On Xmas morning we do the traditional thing. On Xmas afternoon we have a tradition of doing something physically active like skating or hiking, something that gets us all out of the house and moving. On Boxing Day we always watch movies (which Santa brings) with piles of snacks. We don’t visit a lot of family on the day itself. I go to bed early on Xmas and read in bed, it's a luxury.
One thing I would caution you against is leaving Xmas in the hands of your partner. It’s a lot of work and effort. If you are truly anti-Xmas, you both need to be on the same page around expectations and how you will implement it.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:15 AM on December 14, 2018 [59 favorites]
If you label a non-Christmas thing as Christmassy, will it ruin it for you? EG, if you like hot chocolate, can you refer to it as "Santa Sauce" without losing your joy in it? If so, you can just do whatever you would normally do with him, but give it Christmass-y labels.
If that's too much, can you do it a step removed? Like your wife can bring home a stuffed parrot and announce that it's Pepe the Christmas Parrot, and she can involve Pepe in the Christmassy stuff she does when you're not around. Pepe can help decorate the tree when you're not around. And you can do fun cheerful stuff with Pepe but never bring Christmas into your Pepe time. You can sing special Pepe songs and put Pepe's perch somewhere in your living room, and ask your son what presents he wants Pepe to leave under his perch.
You may still have to deal with questions about why you do the other stuff, but I suspect it'll be good enough if you tell him "I like the Pepe parts of Christmas but not the other parts-- everybody likes different things, and that's OK."
And when your gets old enough to understand more complex emotions, if you explain that you had a hard time with Christmas but you love him and you wanted to make him joyful, I suspect he will look back on Pepe with amusement and fondness.
posted by yankeefog at 10:15 AM on December 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
If that's too much, can you do it a step removed? Like your wife can bring home a stuffed parrot and announce that it's Pepe the Christmas Parrot, and she can involve Pepe in the Christmassy stuff she does when you're not around. Pepe can help decorate the tree when you're not around. And you can do fun cheerful stuff with Pepe but never bring Christmas into your Pepe time. You can sing special Pepe songs and put Pepe's perch somewhere in your living room, and ask your son what presents he wants Pepe to leave under his perch.
You may still have to deal with questions about why you do the other stuff, but I suspect it'll be good enough if you tell him "I like the Pepe parts of Christmas but not the other parts-- everybody likes different things, and that's OK."
And when your gets old enough to understand more complex emotions, if you explain that you had a hard time with Christmas but you love him and you wanted to make him joyful, I suspect he will look back on Pepe with amusement and fondness.
posted by yankeefog at 10:15 AM on December 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
My oldest is four-and-a-half years old
so you are at the very tip of the iceberg of your kid getting deeply, passionately Into things that you find tedious at best, and this will be excellent practice for learning how to not let your contempt bleed through and begin to corrupt whatever is lighting your kid's brain up.
so to reiterate some of what's been said above, yeah, I think you need to
a) not be constantly reinforcing the thought of how much Christmas sucks to yourself
b) identify specific traditions and activities that stress you out the most, and modify them or substitute different ones that you (and your family) can make your own
c) look into DBT
don't feel bad if you're not wearing a santa hat and actively caroling and shit but figure out how to not be all "I must remove myself from this distasteful activity" when your wife is doing Christmas stuff with your kid. no matter how justified you are in despising Christmas, your kid is observing and absorbing your actions and this:
take away from the joy he (and eventually his little brother) feels about Christmas
is what inevitably happens when our kids realize we can't fucking stand the things that make them happy.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:22 AM on December 14, 2018 [25 favorites]
so you are at the very tip of the iceberg of your kid getting deeply, passionately Into things that you find tedious at best, and this will be excellent practice for learning how to not let your contempt bleed through and begin to corrupt whatever is lighting your kid's brain up.
so to reiterate some of what's been said above, yeah, I think you need to
a) not be constantly reinforcing the thought of how much Christmas sucks to yourself
b) identify specific traditions and activities that stress you out the most, and modify them or substitute different ones that you (and your family) can make your own
c) look into DBT
don't feel bad if you're not wearing a santa hat and actively caroling and shit but figure out how to not be all "I must remove myself from this distasteful activity" when your wife is doing Christmas stuff with your kid. no matter how justified you are in despising Christmas, your kid is observing and absorbing your actions and this:
take away from the joy he (and eventually his little brother) feels about Christmas
is what inevitably happens when our kids realize we can't fucking stand the things that make them happy.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:22 AM on December 14, 2018 [25 favorites]
I mean the thing about you hating Christmas is that you're essentially ensuring the cycle continues for your sons, and do you really want to do that? Yes your feelings are important but sorry, not as important as your kids' feelings. Being a parent is about your kids, not about you. If you act like a grouch every Christmas for all time, your kids are on MeFi in 20 years asking how to cope with the holidays which they hate because their dad hated and always ruined them.
So--which parts do you hate the most, and can your wife be in charge of them, or can they be removed from your holiday celebrations? Which parts can you tolerate, and can you stretch those out to last longer or repeat? For example: cookies are good all the time! Can you do some fun holiday-ish baking with your kids but never ever ever put on Christmas carols? Can you drive past the lights but skip having a tree in your house? Could you try to frame this as "Making Sure My Kids Enjoy Christmas Since It Happens Every Damn Year"?
posted by masquesoporfavor at 10:22 AM on December 14, 2018 [12 favorites]
So--which parts do you hate the most, and can your wife be in charge of them, or can they be removed from your holiday celebrations? Which parts can you tolerate, and can you stretch those out to last longer or repeat? For example: cookies are good all the time! Can you do some fun holiday-ish baking with your kids but never ever ever put on Christmas carols? Can you drive past the lights but skip having a tree in your house? Could you try to frame this as "Making Sure My Kids Enjoy Christmas Since It Happens Every Damn Year"?
posted by masquesoporfavor at 10:22 AM on December 14, 2018 [12 favorites]
You don't have to learn to like Christmas, but if you can't handle it on any level then you are going to find it hard to survive, because everything in the US is all Christmas all the time as soon as the Thanksgiving turkey has been digested.
Even if you didn't have a wife and kid, being a ball of rage for (at least) one month a year is not good for you. You don't have to like it, but you need to find a way to manage it.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 10:26 AM on December 14, 2018 [12 favorites]
Even if you didn't have a wife and kid, being a ball of rage for (at least) one month a year is not good for you. You don't have to like it, but you need to find a way to manage it.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 10:26 AM on December 14, 2018 [12 favorites]
Is it possible for you to identify the elements you dislike and replace (or at least augment) them with lovely new traditions for your son that don't involve those elements?
Like -- I can't stand the "piles of gifts around the tree" thing personally, so much waste and it's so gross and awful -- but if the tradition were to exchange, I don't know, homemade treats or something, I would enjoy that. I just don't like buying and receiving Stuff.
Maybe Christmas day should involve a hike in a forest; or making something together. Or a particular game you play together. Or you make a movie together as a family. Or you rent a particular film you love and watch it together (careful with this one, it won't work if you choose something your kid dislikes.) Or stargazing.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:29 AM on December 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
Like -- I can't stand the "piles of gifts around the tree" thing personally, so much waste and it's so gross and awful -- but if the tradition were to exchange, I don't know, homemade treats or something, I would enjoy that. I just don't like buying and receiving Stuff.
Maybe Christmas day should involve a hike in a forest; or making something together. Or a particular game you play together. Or you make a movie together as a family. Or you rent a particular film you love and watch it together (careful with this one, it won't work if you choose something your kid dislikes.) Or stargazing.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:29 AM on December 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
First, I agree with showbiz_liz that there's a difference between liking something and not-hating something. The way I see it, this is a "go through the motions," fake it til you make it option.
Second, you could de-Christmas Christmas (or re-, depending on perspective) by looking at all the stuff that the commodification has subsumed to the background. There used to not be electricity for lights, department stores for consumers, nor even carols. There is a lot of stuff that Christians stole from other religions in order to create the behemoth we confront today (if you like The Pixies, "Nimrod's Son" is a clue in this direction): Dec 25 was Nimrod's birthday before Nimrod's kid started campaigning for it to be Jesus' in order to divert attention away from his incestuous freakshow of a family. Christmas trees were pagan, the Holy Trinity was Babylonian, Saturnalia, etc.
Next, one of my misgivings about not having children is that, while I'm not a fan of parents reliving their lives through their children, I believe a strength of children is in helping reframe a lot of memories. "This time, the bullies aren't going to be given so much power." What happens if the stuff that turned you against Christmas wasn't as significant to them? Maybe this conflicts with your politics in general, which is legit but I don't know.
Lastly, depending on how your wife feels about it, you can definitely do a different Christmas. Some people go to Hawaii for a week, some move gift-giving to a completely different time of the year and do the trappings along with some token gifts in December. If anything, Christmas is a good excuse to eat every food that you love, so maybe a re-weighting of the Christmas traditions could be designed: less on materialism, more on being together and pigging out and watching Die Hard movies.
Good luck, as a kidless I am the last person my family asks about what to do on Christmas, so I empathize with being dragged along with the flow. I counter it by getting people weird gifts.
posted by rhizome at 10:37 AM on December 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
Second, you could de-Christmas Christmas (or re-, depending on perspective) by looking at all the stuff that the commodification has subsumed to the background. There used to not be electricity for lights, department stores for consumers, nor even carols. There is a lot of stuff that Christians stole from other religions in order to create the behemoth we confront today (if you like The Pixies, "Nimrod's Son" is a clue in this direction): Dec 25 was Nimrod's birthday before Nimrod's kid started campaigning for it to be Jesus' in order to divert attention away from his incestuous freakshow of a family. Christmas trees were pagan, the Holy Trinity was Babylonian, Saturnalia, etc.
Next, one of my misgivings about not having children is that, while I'm not a fan of parents reliving their lives through their children, I believe a strength of children is in helping reframe a lot of memories. "This time, the bullies aren't going to be given so much power." What happens if the stuff that turned you against Christmas wasn't as significant to them? Maybe this conflicts with your politics in general, which is legit but I don't know.
Lastly, depending on how your wife feels about it, you can definitely do a different Christmas. Some people go to Hawaii for a week, some move gift-giving to a completely different time of the year and do the trappings along with some token gifts in December. If anything, Christmas is a good excuse to eat every food that you love, so maybe a re-weighting of the Christmas traditions could be designed: less on materialism, more on being together and pigging out and watching Die Hard movies.
Good luck, as a kidless I am the last person my family asks about what to do on Christmas, so I empathize with being dragged along with the flow. I counter it by getting people weird gifts.
posted by rhizome at 10:37 AM on December 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
A lot of Christmas is about family, and about parents loving/giving to children. Please find or make a meaningful ritual that does this for you and your kids, so they don't just feel your hatred of Christmas as somehow adjacent to, and depleting, that important connection.
And also: dear heavens me, therapy. This sounds like it could be really a problem if you don't figure out some real strategies around it. Take it 100% seriously, please.
The family/parental components aside, deeply hating something that your child deeply loves is a non-trivial problem.
posted by amtho at 10:41 AM on December 14, 2018 [16 favorites]
And also: dear heavens me, therapy. This sounds like it could be really a problem if you don't figure out some real strategies around it. Take it 100% seriously, please.
The family/parental components aside, deeply hating something that your child deeply loves is a non-trivial problem.
posted by amtho at 10:41 AM on December 14, 2018 [16 favorites]
This is obviously a really different situation, but I'm half-Jewish and grew up with a lot of other Jewish and mixed-Jewish families around. A lot of them had a "mom's holiday is Christmas, dad's holiday is Hanukkah" type of thing. Is there a holiday you do like, that you could get really into with the kids?
posted by capricorn at 10:43 AM on December 14, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by capricorn at 10:43 AM on December 14, 2018 [6 favorites]
Following up a bit on what sequence said, if you're running out of the room in barely-suppressed rage and contempt every time Christmas comes up, I'm betting there are other aspects of life that evoke the same reaction in you. It's not like trauma is so neatly compartmentalized. Oh, that it were.
I am not blaming you for your reactions, nor am I saying that they aren't justified, or that you're not trying hard now. What I am saying is that you absolutely 100% cannot raise children in an environment where they feel that their dad is a powderkeg of rage, even if it never goes off (and, let's be real, if you're in that state of being you'd have to also be a saint for, say, a teenager never to set it off). You. Cannot. Do. It.
You have to address this. If you can't "just get over it" on your own, you can't. That's okay. But you have to work on it. It's not optional. Otherwise you will do serious harm to your kids. I'm not talking about actually lashing out at them. I'm talking about what it does to you just to grow up in an environment like that.
Just by your asking this question, I know you don't want to hurt your kid(s) and do want to do right by them. So I know you have the capacity to go ahead and take the next step, which is to start getting some help coping with all the pain you're still carrying around. Maybe you didn't feel like your pain was worth the trouble and expense of therapy before. But now you have had the insight to see the negative impact it threatens to have on your kid (and maybe your marriage?). I bet you think your kid's happiness is worth it.
posted by praemunire at 11:05 AM on December 14, 2018 [42 favorites]
I am not blaming you for your reactions, nor am I saying that they aren't justified, or that you're not trying hard now. What I am saying is that you absolutely 100% cannot raise children in an environment where they feel that their dad is a powderkeg of rage, even if it never goes off (and, let's be real, if you're in that state of being you'd have to also be a saint for, say, a teenager never to set it off). You. Cannot. Do. It.
You have to address this. If you can't "just get over it" on your own, you can't. That's okay. But you have to work on it. It's not optional. Otherwise you will do serious harm to your kids. I'm not talking about actually lashing out at them. I'm talking about what it does to you just to grow up in an environment like that.
Just by your asking this question, I know you don't want to hurt your kid(s) and do want to do right by them. So I know you have the capacity to go ahead and take the next step, which is to start getting some help coping with all the pain you're still carrying around. Maybe you didn't feel like your pain was worth the trouble and expense of therapy before. But now you have had the insight to see the negative impact it threatens to have on your kid (and maybe your marriage?). I bet you think your kid's happiness is worth it.
posted by praemunire at 11:05 AM on December 14, 2018 [42 favorites]
My oldest is four-and-a-half years old and this is the first year he really gets Christmas. He LOVES it. It's magical for him. So far my wife and I have done OK splitting things up. They decorated the tree together and read Christmas books every night. I excuse myself ("I need to run upstairs and get something") when he starts singing carols.
Whoa, can't your wife help lessen the YAY CHRISTMASTIME MAGIC expectations and reframe some of the magic into new family wintertime traditions that feel true for you? Look, your kid did not come out of the womb with an innate love of Christmas, it's a cultural tradition that he learned. Like, this year.
If your wife has a strong love of Christmas that she wants to share with the kids, her feelings are valid too, of course, but can she pick and choose just a favorite personal tradition and dial back teaching the kids that all of it belongs to them? Maybe lights and a tree and one present, but they don't need to learn all the carols (especially if you're not religious) and have a month of Christmas-themed bedtime stories. (Or some other compromise.)
Parents who are Jewish/Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist/Sikh in the US have to deal with their kids getting dazzled by Christmas and begging for a tree and presents and Santa, and the parents say "well no, sweetheart, but we celebrate other things." As an agnostic, I enjoy the lights and the block parties, but take a hard pass on any kind of holiday concerts and actively avoid Christmas music because I have some feelings about it from my own religious upbringing.
posted by desuetude at 11:06 AM on December 14, 2018 [9 favorites]
Whoa, can't your wife help lessen the YAY CHRISTMASTIME MAGIC expectations and reframe some of the magic into new family wintertime traditions that feel true for you? Look, your kid did not come out of the womb with an innate love of Christmas, it's a cultural tradition that he learned. Like, this year.
If your wife has a strong love of Christmas that she wants to share with the kids, her feelings are valid too, of course, but can she pick and choose just a favorite personal tradition and dial back teaching the kids that all of it belongs to them? Maybe lights and a tree and one present, but they don't need to learn all the carols (especially if you're not religious) and have a month of Christmas-themed bedtime stories. (Or some other compromise.)
Parents who are Jewish/Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist/Sikh in the US have to deal with their kids getting dazzled by Christmas and begging for a tree and presents and Santa, and the parents say "well no, sweetheart, but we celebrate other things." As an agnostic, I enjoy the lights and the block parties, but take a hard pass on any kind of holiday concerts and actively avoid Christmas music because I have some feelings about it from my own religious upbringing.
posted by desuetude at 11:06 AM on December 14, 2018 [9 favorites]
Hi I hate the whole fucking Christmas season too, for both trauma and general alienation reasons (that reinforce one another like whoa.) I don't have kids, but I think I'd go for a more open approach than you're attempting, because I know for me, stuffing those feelings back down send me into a blacker depression than anything else.
I'd try to break down your feelings into age-appropriate thoughts that you can actually tell your kids. Some things along the lines of "I feel sad at Christmas because it wasn't fun for me when I was little, and all the music and lights remind me of some sad times. It's ok that it's fun for you! I'm glad you like it. I just need to be alone and feel sad sometimes." And possibly something like "A thing I like to do in the winter is (go for a walk in the snow, make something crafty that isn't red and green, watch a particular movie, read a book out loud) - do you want to do that with me?" It'd be nice for your kids to be able to do some seasonally-tied activities with you that you don't hate. For example, I hate Christmas but I like the list-making and renewal aspects of New Year's, so I do a lot of planning and review and finishing of projects and stuff this time of year. It gives me something to focus on that's positive.
Your kids are young and the whole commercial Christmas season is aimed at little kids. As they grow older they may find they actually prefer to do quiet non-themed stuff with Dad at least some of the time. And being honest about your feelings in an age-appropriate ways is a very, very good thing to do for them especially with boys.
posted by restless_nomad at 11:06 AM on December 14, 2018 [20 favorites]
I'd try to break down your feelings into age-appropriate thoughts that you can actually tell your kids. Some things along the lines of "I feel sad at Christmas because it wasn't fun for me when I was little, and all the music and lights remind me of some sad times. It's ok that it's fun for you! I'm glad you like it. I just need to be alone and feel sad sometimes." And possibly something like "A thing I like to do in the winter is (go for a walk in the snow, make something crafty that isn't red and green, watch a particular movie, read a book out loud) - do you want to do that with me?" It'd be nice for your kids to be able to do some seasonally-tied activities with you that you don't hate. For example, I hate Christmas but I like the list-making and renewal aspects of New Year's, so I do a lot of planning and review and finishing of projects and stuff this time of year. It gives me something to focus on that's positive.
Your kids are young and the whole commercial Christmas season is aimed at little kids. As they grow older they may find they actually prefer to do quiet non-themed stuff with Dad at least some of the time. And being honest about your feelings in an age-appropriate ways is a very, very good thing to do for them especially with boys.
posted by restless_nomad at 11:06 AM on December 14, 2018 [20 favorites]
Opting out isn't going to harm them -- millions of Muslims, and Buddhists, and Jews opt out of Christmas and its ensuant consumerist BS every year.
But those people aren't necessarily opting out of their culture's ways of celebrating and gathering, though. They may not celebrate Christmas, but they have alternatives that that can build upon to create family traditions if they so choose.
One of the challenges that may come up is if you, as a family, generally don't bother to make space for special occasions and fun time with loved ones, secular or religious or otherwise. It's difficult to tell from your question if your issues mostly lie with the commodification of Christmas or the social obligation aspects. If it's really just about the former, then maybe make sure that you're still finding ways to create togetherness with your family. If you use your issues with Christmas as an excuse not to, believe me, your son will notice as he gets older.
posted by blerghamot at 11:48 AM on December 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
But those people aren't necessarily opting out of their culture's ways of celebrating and gathering, though. They may not celebrate Christmas, but they have alternatives that that can build upon to create family traditions if they so choose.
One of the challenges that may come up is if you, as a family, generally don't bother to make space for special occasions and fun time with loved ones, secular or religious or otherwise. It's difficult to tell from your question if your issues mostly lie with the commodification of Christmas or the social obligation aspects. If it's really just about the former, then maybe make sure that you're still finding ways to create togetherness with your family. If you use your issues with Christmas as an excuse not to, believe me, your son will notice as he gets older.
posted by blerghamot at 11:48 AM on December 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
you'd have to also be a saint for, say, a teenager never to set it off
Imagine your future teenager realizing that all they had to do for Dad to refuse to be in the same room as them was sing Christmas carols all the time.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 11:54 AM on December 14, 2018 [6 favorites]
Imagine your future teenager realizing that all they had to do for Dad to refuse to be in the same room as them was sing Christmas carols all the time.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 11:54 AM on December 14, 2018 [6 favorites]
I'm with tapir_whorf, warriorqueen, and the folks above who suggest celebrating the season in a completely different manner. Gifts, decorations and foods of your family's choice, etc. Do the house up in purple!
Your partner needs to assist you in this. It is absolutely OK for you to hate Christmas and not want it in your life at all.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 12:01 PM on December 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
Your partner needs to assist you in this. It is absolutely OK for you to hate Christmas and not want it in your life at all.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 12:01 PM on December 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
I loathe everything about it -- the presents, the enforced cultural expectations, the lights, the consumerism, the carols. I feel nothing but antipathy for the holiday and everything related to it.
Hi! I am in therapy for pretty extensive trauma and /also/ my husband feels like you do about Christmas for very similar reasons.
Trust me when I say the very first thing you need to do is sit down with yourself and write up a 'Things I Hate And Do Not Hate That Are Christmas Related'. It is going to suck, and you are not going to want to do it, but it is absolutely critical to figuring out how to manage your trauma. You can do this without a therapist, though a therapist always helps.
I mean on the level of detail like, "My family had a house that was decorated with X for Christmas, the sound of jingle bells reminds me of these things" or "The taste of gingerbread is okay, but I can't stand it once it becomes house-shaped."
Because I guarantee you that there are things that are not tainted that could be part of a winter holiday, and the key here is going to be finding them. Maybe you hate hot chocolate, but since nobody ever made mulled cider in your house, that would be okay. Maybe you hate Christmas tree decorations, but are okay hanging a bunch of little suet things outside on a tree for the birds this month. Maybe you hate Christmas lights, but don't hate lighting candles and saying dramatically 'Dark, we defy you!'
Also, if your wife is religious, I want to nth that maybe you could shift this month to an Advent celebration instead? I guess a bunch of traditionalists don't like to have the whole month about Christmas either, instead making it Adventy with only one or two days of Christmas songs, etc.
posted by corb at 12:26 PM on December 14, 2018 [19 favorites]
Hi! I am in therapy for pretty extensive trauma and /also/ my husband feels like you do about Christmas for very similar reasons.
Trust me when I say the very first thing you need to do is sit down with yourself and write up a 'Things I Hate And Do Not Hate That Are Christmas Related'. It is going to suck, and you are not going to want to do it, but it is absolutely critical to figuring out how to manage your trauma. You can do this without a therapist, though a therapist always helps.
I mean on the level of detail like, "My family had a house that was decorated with X for Christmas, the sound of jingle bells reminds me of these things" or "The taste of gingerbread is okay, but I can't stand it once it becomes house-shaped."
Because I guarantee you that there are things that are not tainted that could be part of a winter holiday, and the key here is going to be finding them. Maybe you hate hot chocolate, but since nobody ever made mulled cider in your house, that would be okay. Maybe you hate Christmas tree decorations, but are okay hanging a bunch of little suet things outside on a tree for the birds this month. Maybe you hate Christmas lights, but don't hate lighting candles and saying dramatically 'Dark, we defy you!'
Also, if your wife is religious, I want to nth that maybe you could shift this month to an Advent celebration instead? I guess a bunch of traditionalists don't like to have the whole month about Christmas either, instead making it Adventy with only one or two days of Christmas songs, etc.
posted by corb at 12:26 PM on December 14, 2018 [19 favorites]
It would mean the absolute world to your son if you could find a way to manage these feelings and participate with him. As others said, you can pass on the most painful aspects, but to find a way to participate somehow is going to mean so much to him. In contrast, if you can't even stand to be the same room as him when he's singing christmas carols, he's going to pick up on that, and it's going to make the holidays sad and scary for him.
Truthfully, this question isnt about christmas at all. Christmas is just a trigger. This question is about a trauma response that is now impacting your family. Its ok! You're a good father and you clearly care about your son and this is not your fault. It sounds like almost a PTSD response, which is entirely physiological and not something you can just white knuckle through.
The problem is, your kids are going to start picking up on it and its going to make the holidays a little bit sad for them. You are describing a SEVERE reaction here. If it's as bad as you say it is inevitable that they will realize. Kids are really, really smart. At the same time, the physical and emotional labor your wife has to do this time of year is going to increase substantially if you cannot tolerate even the most basic displays of festivity, like a little boy singing.
I really think you should shift your viewpoint here from "the holidays are bad" to "this is triggering my trauma". There is so much great treatment out there. You dont deserve to spend 6 - 8 weeks fucking miserable, reliving things you never want to experience again, and you dont have to! There is help out there, and it will make your entire family's life easier this time of year. But you have to take it. Do it for your kids.
posted by Amy93 at 12:31 PM on December 14, 2018 [35 favorites]
Truthfully, this question isnt about christmas at all. Christmas is just a trigger. This question is about a trauma response that is now impacting your family. Its ok! You're a good father and you clearly care about your son and this is not your fault. It sounds like almost a PTSD response, which is entirely physiological and not something you can just white knuckle through.
The problem is, your kids are going to start picking up on it and its going to make the holidays a little bit sad for them. You are describing a SEVERE reaction here. If it's as bad as you say it is inevitable that they will realize. Kids are really, really smart. At the same time, the physical and emotional labor your wife has to do this time of year is going to increase substantially if you cannot tolerate even the most basic displays of festivity, like a little boy singing.
I really think you should shift your viewpoint here from "the holidays are bad" to "this is triggering my trauma". There is so much great treatment out there. You dont deserve to spend 6 - 8 weeks fucking miserable, reliving things you never want to experience again, and you dont have to! There is help out there, and it will make your entire family's life easier this time of year. But you have to take it. Do it for your kids.
posted by Amy93 at 12:31 PM on December 14, 2018 [35 favorites]
I abhor Thanksgiving. You know what I started doing? Traveling on Thanksgiving. I don't have littles, so it's harder for you, but can you and your family make the holiday about a trip somewhere? Even renting and RV and taking a road trip to a National Park?
posted by Sophie1 at 12:41 PM on December 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 12:41 PM on December 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
Seconding what was said above about maybe starting therapy after the new year. You're right that your crap is yours to deal with, but you gotta deal with it. You don't have to learn to like Christmas but for the long term, your kids need their parent to not be a seething mass of "barely contained emotional response" for a month or more out of every year. You need to work through this stuff to the point that it's not a raw wound that's hurting you every time you hear a jingle bell or whatever. I really feel for you and I hope it gets better with time and work.
For this year, can you find a special project that you and your son could work on, as a counterpoint to the Christmas-y stuff he's doing with his mom? Maybe build a step stool just the right height so he can reach the counter to help you cook, or a book shelf, or maybe there's something special for your wife that you and your son can make or do together? Something positive and constructive that you can focus on.
posted by beandip at 12:41 PM on December 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
For this year, can you find a special project that you and your son could work on, as a counterpoint to the Christmas-y stuff he's doing with his mom? Maybe build a step stool just the right height so he can reach the counter to help you cook, or a book shelf, or maybe there's something special for your wife that you and your son can make or do together? Something positive and constructive that you can focus on.
posted by beandip at 12:41 PM on December 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
Can you go ice skating - even at an indoor rink, or skiing?
- Make gingerbread, cookies, fudge? I used to make gingerbread houses with my son, never made them as a kid, so not a tainted thing.
- Hang beautiful fairy lights in white or not-such Christmas colors? Burn balsam candles that smell good?
- Do crafts that are fun to do together, like paper chains.
- Do volunteer stuff. Esp. involving people who don't have family.
- Just say to your kids Christmas was kind of a drag when I was a kid, so it's not my favorite time of year, but its really fun for me to enjoy your Christmas. assuming that's true, which I think it is.
So, any holiday-ish stuff that isn't absolutely ruined with specific memories. Basically create new traditions with your kids that are Christmas-ish or Christmas-adjacent that don't pack a PTSD wallop.
It's *your* trauma, and there's a level of suppressed (barely) rage. It's worth it for you to get help resolving some of that. I just spent time with my family for a wedding, it uncovered ancient hurts, but now I can manage them because therapy & time.
posted by theora55 at 12:56 PM on December 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
- Make gingerbread, cookies, fudge? I used to make gingerbread houses with my son, never made them as a kid, so not a tainted thing.
- Hang beautiful fairy lights in white or not-such Christmas colors? Burn balsam candles that smell good?
- Do crafts that are fun to do together, like paper chains.
- Do volunteer stuff. Esp. involving people who don't have family.
- Just say to your kids Christmas was kind of a drag when I was a kid, so it's not my favorite time of year, but its really fun for me to enjoy your Christmas. assuming that's true, which I think it is.
So, any holiday-ish stuff that isn't absolutely ruined with specific memories. Basically create new traditions with your kids that are Christmas-ish or Christmas-adjacent that don't pack a PTSD wallop.
It's *your* trauma, and there's a level of suppressed (barely) rage. It's worth it for you to get help resolving some of that. I just spent time with my family for a wedding, it uncovered ancient hurts, but now I can manage them because therapy & time.
posted by theora55 at 12:56 PM on December 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've been thinking about this question a lot and wanted to come back in with a couple more thoughts about holidays and pain. I obviously don't know the specific ways that you were hurt, and I'm just offering the experience of another person who was hurt in a lot of subtle ways that really interfere with my well-being this time of year.
I've recommended this book on Metafilter in the past: The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller. One of the observations of this book is that for some children, which the book identifies as "gifted", the parents reverse the normal and healthy emotional relationship by demanding that the child provide unconditional love to the parent, instead of the other way around. (The children in this telling are "gifted" in that they have the capacity and perception to meet this emotional need in their parents.) This reversal establishes a cycle of emotional abuse because the "gifted" children grow up never having known appropriate parental love and support and expecting that they will get it from their children.
Now, an adult who had once been a "gifted" child might, on recognizing this dynamic, form the intention to provide appropriate, unconditional parental love for their children even if they didn't receive it themselves. They might think, "well, unconditional love just skipped my generation" and do their level best to live into a better dynamic with their own children. That doesn't tend to work. The grown "gifted" child is still looking for the emotional support that they were denied as a child. They have an unmet developmental need from way back in their life. That unmet need will keep coming out in different ways until it is met. The way for them to meet it is to be the adult, to themselves, that their parents never were. The way for them to meet it is to unconditionally love the child that is still inside of them, alone and scared and furiously managing the emotions of the adults around them.
It is possible that you have an unmet need around the holidays. It's possible that the holidays are a source of pain for you because you are carrying with you a need that has to do with the holidays. You might not even be aware of the need. You might think it's silly or childish and deny that it's there because you are embarrassed about it. Maybe you're embarrassed that you, a grown person, are so hurt by, I dunno, the fact that you never got the bike you wanted when you were eight years old. Maybe you know what it is. Maybe the earnest desire of your heart was to have a normal Christmas like people were supposed to, and your parents were too self-involved or wrapped up in their own dramas, or too poor, or fighting their own demons, or whatever, to give you that. And in the scheme of things it might feel small to your adult self. It might be bigger than that, too: but I encourage you to acknowledge even the small hurts as real.
And then, think about being, for yourself, the adult that could meet that need for you, whatever it is. You can tell yourself that you are loved and worthwhile. You can speak up for yourself to say that what someone did to you was wrong and inappropriate. You can maybe give yourself the thing that you didn't have, the absence of which is causing you such pain and anger now.
These things don't skip a generation. They perpetuate themselves. They leave imprints on us, which we leave on our children unless we change ourselves. You can't just suffer through this. You will leave its imprint if you try.
I'm not urging you to learn to like Christmas. I'm urging you to find the kid inside of you who first hated it, and to be there for that kid.
It's been said upthread, but this is hard and courageous work that a therapist can help you with. Good luck to you.
posted by gauche at 12:59 PM on December 14, 2018 [22 favorites]
I've recommended this book on Metafilter in the past: The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller. One of the observations of this book is that for some children, which the book identifies as "gifted", the parents reverse the normal and healthy emotional relationship by demanding that the child provide unconditional love to the parent, instead of the other way around. (The children in this telling are "gifted" in that they have the capacity and perception to meet this emotional need in their parents.) This reversal establishes a cycle of emotional abuse because the "gifted" children grow up never having known appropriate parental love and support and expecting that they will get it from their children.
Now, an adult who had once been a "gifted" child might, on recognizing this dynamic, form the intention to provide appropriate, unconditional parental love for their children even if they didn't receive it themselves. They might think, "well, unconditional love just skipped my generation" and do their level best to live into a better dynamic with their own children. That doesn't tend to work. The grown "gifted" child is still looking for the emotional support that they were denied as a child. They have an unmet developmental need from way back in their life. That unmet need will keep coming out in different ways until it is met. The way for them to meet it is to be the adult, to themselves, that their parents never were. The way for them to meet it is to unconditionally love the child that is still inside of them, alone and scared and furiously managing the emotions of the adults around them.
It is possible that you have an unmet need around the holidays. It's possible that the holidays are a source of pain for you because you are carrying with you a need that has to do with the holidays. You might not even be aware of the need. You might think it's silly or childish and deny that it's there because you are embarrassed about it. Maybe you're embarrassed that you, a grown person, are so hurt by, I dunno, the fact that you never got the bike you wanted when you were eight years old. Maybe you know what it is. Maybe the earnest desire of your heart was to have a normal Christmas like people were supposed to, and your parents were too self-involved or wrapped up in their own dramas, or too poor, or fighting their own demons, or whatever, to give you that. And in the scheme of things it might feel small to your adult self. It might be bigger than that, too: but I encourage you to acknowledge even the small hurts as real.
And then, think about being, for yourself, the adult that could meet that need for you, whatever it is. You can tell yourself that you are loved and worthwhile. You can speak up for yourself to say that what someone did to you was wrong and inappropriate. You can maybe give yourself the thing that you didn't have, the absence of which is causing you such pain and anger now.
These things don't skip a generation. They perpetuate themselves. They leave imprints on us, which we leave on our children unless we change ourselves. You can't just suffer through this. You will leave its imprint if you try.
I'm not urging you to learn to like Christmas. I'm urging you to find the kid inside of you who first hated it, and to be there for that kid.
It's been said upthread, but this is hard and courageous work that a therapist can help you with. Good luck to you.
posted by gauche at 12:59 PM on December 14, 2018 [22 favorites]
One tiny, very specific suggestion: We've started waiting to bring out presents until they are distributed. That might help in your situation because the gifts won't be a constant visual trigger.
posted by DrAstroZoom at 1:00 PM on December 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by DrAstroZoom at 1:00 PM on December 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
not_the_water, I am with you on hating the trappings and expectations of the season, and on being fragile concerning the personal memories of the holidays. I'm a parent, though my kids are older than yours. I want you to know that I am struggling with these things too.
Being stuck in the rejection of Christmas stories the culture tells itself is hard. It's hard to lack a way to make the season have meaning, especially when every bit of festiveness feels like a stark reminder of your own failure to connect with it all. It's energy-draining. Soul-draining.
Is there any part of you that can reach out toward one thing--however small--about this time of the year in the physical world (and I mean the earth's season, not consumerism's) that moves you? If it's a candle at night, light that candle with your child, and get out a non-Christmas storybook and read to him. If it's ice--go skating together. Whatever thing doesn't hurt--the thing you can engage with a little wistfully, with a secret, lonely bit of wonder--hold on to that thing, and make togetherness and connection from it. No one but you will know what this thing is, and (I regret to say) it's going to take emotional energy you don't feel like you have right now to find it. This may not be the year you make it happen. But maybe--? Maybe you can change the emotional weather a little, enough to get through, enough so that your son has a memory of being connected in the darkness.
It's hard. I hear you. I wish you strength.
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:45 PM on December 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
Being stuck in the rejection of Christmas stories the culture tells itself is hard. It's hard to lack a way to make the season have meaning, especially when every bit of festiveness feels like a stark reminder of your own failure to connect with it all. It's energy-draining. Soul-draining.
Is there any part of you that can reach out toward one thing--however small--about this time of the year in the physical world (and I mean the earth's season, not consumerism's) that moves you? If it's a candle at night, light that candle with your child, and get out a non-Christmas storybook and read to him. If it's ice--go skating together. Whatever thing doesn't hurt--the thing you can engage with a little wistfully, with a secret, lonely bit of wonder--hold on to that thing, and make togetherness and connection from it. No one but you will know what this thing is, and (I regret to say) it's going to take emotional energy you don't feel like you have right now to find it. This may not be the year you make it happen. But maybe--? Maybe you can change the emotional weather a little, enough to get through, enough so that your son has a memory of being connected in the darkness.
It's hard. I hear you. I wish you strength.
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:45 PM on December 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
> It would mean the absolute world to your son if you could find a way to manage these feelings and participate with him. As others said, you can pass on the most painful aspects, but to find a way to participate somehow is going to mean so much to him. In contrast, if you can't even stand to be the same room as him when he's singing christmas carols, he's going to pick up on that, and it's going to make the holidays sad and scary for him.
How could we possibly know how the kiddo feels about this, though? Maybe he kinda loves having special mom time but is just curious--not upset--about why dad isn't participating?
I agree that the OP needs to find a way to not telegraph his negative feelings about Christmas, but neutral non-participation need not be considered upsetting to the children.
posted by desuetude at 1:45 PM on December 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
How could we possibly know how the kiddo feels about this, though? Maybe he kinda loves having special mom time but is just curious--not upset--about why dad isn't participating?
I agree that the OP needs to find a way to not telegraph his negative feelings about Christmas, but neutral non-participation need not be considered upsetting to the children.
posted by desuetude at 1:45 PM on December 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
My advice is similar to everyone else's (I also am a parent and hate Christmas and there is was some personal trauma involved although that is better now).
What has helped me most, other than escaping the trauma situation, is a combination of acceptance and making a Christmas that I'm ok with.
Acceptance: this season sucks. It's dark and cold (ymmv), traffic is horrible and people are rushing around going into debt buying useless plastic crap, there are social obligations. This is just the way it is. I avoid it all as much as possible, sit in the sun through the window when it's there, and count the days til solstice. It's something to be endured. There will be social obligations and family stuff, some ok some not, and I will go and play my part and focus on the nice things (get to see this person I like, have made someone really happy with a gift, food that is good).
Making a Christmas I'm ok with: I try to focus as much as possible on the things I DO like. Pretty lights. Making cookies and decorating them with the kids. Trying to make it enjoyable for THEM; getting them gifts that make their eyes light up, watching the Grinch and other movies, having more time to actually spend doing things with them because it's a holiday and there's no work or kid activities. I definitely frame Xmas as about the kids, although it also is important to my mom and I try to be cognizant of that. I enjoy the opportunity to get together with friends before they scatter for the actual Xmas.
At the same time, I try to minimize the things I hate. We don't play insipid carols. We don't focus on Santa and Xmas stories. I minimize gift exchanges with adults as much as possible to avoid empty consumerism; I don't exchange with friends. If I buy them something it's because I saw it and wanted to give it to them, not because there is an obligation to give them something. For my parents, I now give experiences they wouldn't buy themselves because they view it as am extravagance (e.g. tickets to a show) rather than Stuff they really don't need. I avoid all large work Xmas functions, ESPECIALLY Secret Santa. There have been a couple years when I stayed home "sick" to avoid family dinners due to conflict.
Overall, I try to give and accept where I can, and avoid the rest, and that has worked out for me; I am getting better with Xmas every year! It helps that my partner does not insist on Xmas things. I do feel as though it would be worth coming to some compromises with your wife around what you do/don't do for Christmas. If there are particular things that are triggering, I feel as though their presence should be up for discussion.
Finally, I agree with folks who have pointed out that you don't have to lie with gritted teeth to your kid. It's fine to provide some level of knowledge that this is not something you enjoy. My daughter has known since she was little some of the (non-trauma) things I loathe about it, like the stupid music, awful cultural messaging dictating Happy Family Time, and planet-killing consumerism. But this works best if you can find a way to enjoy some activities with them at this time of year, and they can be the traditions YOU develop as a family, not XmasTM. If you accomplish that, then I think it's perfectly fine to step out while your wife does some Christmassy thing with them that is important to her.
Best of luck managing the season OP!
posted by DTMFA at 3:10 PM on December 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
What has helped me most, other than escaping the trauma situation, is a combination of acceptance and making a Christmas that I'm ok with.
Acceptance: this season sucks. It's dark and cold (ymmv), traffic is horrible and people are rushing around going into debt buying useless plastic crap, there are social obligations. This is just the way it is. I avoid it all as much as possible, sit in the sun through the window when it's there, and count the days til solstice. It's something to be endured. There will be social obligations and family stuff, some ok some not, and I will go and play my part and focus on the nice things (get to see this person I like, have made someone really happy with a gift, food that is good).
Making a Christmas I'm ok with: I try to focus as much as possible on the things I DO like. Pretty lights. Making cookies and decorating them with the kids. Trying to make it enjoyable for THEM; getting them gifts that make their eyes light up, watching the Grinch and other movies, having more time to actually spend doing things with them because it's a holiday and there's no work or kid activities. I definitely frame Xmas as about the kids, although it also is important to my mom and I try to be cognizant of that. I enjoy the opportunity to get together with friends before they scatter for the actual Xmas.
At the same time, I try to minimize the things I hate. We don't play insipid carols. We don't focus on Santa and Xmas stories. I minimize gift exchanges with adults as much as possible to avoid empty consumerism; I don't exchange with friends. If I buy them something it's because I saw it and wanted to give it to them, not because there is an obligation to give them something. For my parents, I now give experiences they wouldn't buy themselves because they view it as am extravagance (e.g. tickets to a show) rather than Stuff they really don't need. I avoid all large work Xmas functions, ESPECIALLY Secret Santa. There have been a couple years when I stayed home "sick" to avoid family dinners due to conflict.
Overall, I try to give and accept where I can, and avoid the rest, and that has worked out for me; I am getting better with Xmas every year! It helps that my partner does not insist on Xmas things. I do feel as though it would be worth coming to some compromises with your wife around what you do/don't do for Christmas. If there are particular things that are triggering, I feel as though their presence should be up for discussion.
Finally, I agree with folks who have pointed out that you don't have to lie with gritted teeth to your kid. It's fine to provide some level of knowledge that this is not something you enjoy. My daughter has known since she was little some of the (non-trauma) things I loathe about it, like the stupid music, awful cultural messaging dictating Happy Family Time, and planet-killing consumerism. But this works best if you can find a way to enjoy some activities with them at this time of year, and they can be the traditions YOU develop as a family, not XmasTM. If you accomplish that, then I think it's perfectly fine to step out while your wife does some Christmassy thing with them that is important to her.
Best of luck managing the season OP!
posted by DTMFA at 3:10 PM on December 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
On re-reading my comment I thought I'd better clarify: I'm getting better at not being a ball of anger and stress at Christmas, not getting better at Performing Christmas! =)
posted by DTMFA at 3:21 PM on December 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by DTMFA at 3:21 PM on December 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
Seconding some of the ideas about creating your own meaning and traditions around Christmas. For several years in my late teens and early 20s, I camped out on Xmas Eve, then followed that up by heading out to some desert for even more camping over the week leading up to New Years. At the time I just really needed space and quiet, but it ultimately changed my view of Christmas. The stars twinkling in the frigid air and being semi-awake much of the night (often too cold to really sleep well) gave me a sense of kinship to stories about following yonder star and holding a silent night of vigil, etc. And (after I finally got my fill of solitude and asceticism) I could also see why many cultures seem to have wanted this time of the long, cold nights to be filled with lights and sitting around a hearth and gifts and a feast. To me, Christmas encompasses both of those concepts in kind of a neat way. But I had to kind of make a break from society's version of Christmas to get to an understanding of Christmas that I like.
posted by salvia at 5:04 PM on December 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by salvia at 5:04 PM on December 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
Jewish culture has you covered: Chinese Food and a Movie. It’s fun, it’s family togetherness, it’s non-Christmas, it’s celebratory. The pure distillation of the holiday, minus all the Jesus and Santa. No carols, no mistletoe, no eggnog needed. Very fun for kids with minimal labor from adults.
As an alternative compromise,
maybe mom does inside the house Christmas stuff and dad does out of the house fieldtrips/events?
Maybe dad does non-Christmas party in the house and mom takes the kids on an Xmas field trip?
That way you get half a day of alone time to destress and avoid the Christmassy stuff, while still affirmatively proactively celebrating with the kids.
Remember your kids just want to spend time with you, they won’t know that breakfast for dinner or taco night isn’t a typical tradition.
posted by cricketcello at 5:38 PM on December 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
As an alternative compromise,
maybe mom does inside the house Christmas stuff and dad does out of the house fieldtrips/events?
Maybe dad does non-Christmas party in the house and mom takes the kids on an Xmas field trip?
That way you get half a day of alone time to destress and avoid the Christmassy stuff, while still affirmatively proactively celebrating with the kids.
Remember your kids just want to spend time with you, they won’t know that breakfast for dinner or taco night isn’t a typical tradition.
posted by cricketcello at 5:38 PM on December 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
I really wish that people would dial down the drama a little bit here and realize that a parent's avoidance of/lack of enthusiasm towards a holiday is not really a huge childhood-defining disaster.
I agree, it's not.
Sort-of.
If a parent is reacting out of anxiety/anger/depression, to the extent of leaving the room every time something comes up, it could be a very tough space for a child. Children, being built for survival, have pretty good radar for when a parent is in control and present, and when a parent is veering out of control because the parent cannot handle something.
It might not be traumatic but (and this is no shade thrown at you, not_the_water, you are addressing this, you rock) the lessons kids take away can be pretty mixed up.
Like I can see this child interpreting "parent leaves when I sing carols" as "I can't sing" or "my voice is something my parent hates," because the sense is that the parent is fleeing. Because that's the emotional truth underneath.
My Christmases were about as shitty as you can get and the scent of pine used to give me panic attacks, and now I'm able to go to my children's Seasonal Concert and Rudolph it out with them. I am not saying this is the way to go or that any family has to celebrate a particular way!
But if your child is in a Western context, you will have to grapple with Christmas and I highly recommend you make choices, don't just react. The whole school + Christmas thing gets worse and worse for 4.5-about 9, and then starts to get easier again.
I mean...with my oldest son, I was really on the fence and my husband and I were undecided about whether we were going to do the Santa thing. (Let's just say I am NOT A FAN for BAD REASONS). And his hijab-and-long-robes-wearing daycare teacher told him Santa would bring him presents! We decided at that point to go with it, but we didn't have to.
We could have legit celebrated Hanukkah instead because my family is ethnically Jewish, or gone along with my Buddhist meditation bent or any number of things. They might even have been better, I don't know. But we did have to be on the same page and figure out what our family holidays were going to look like, positively. Not just "fleeing a past of dysfunction and abuse."
I believe that young children in particular need one thing more than anything, and that is a sense that their parent is able to be present with them. Not every second, but certainly enough to listen to their songs. And not_the_water has stated that he wants to be present with his son for this, but is struggling. It sounds like not_the_water's wife wants to celebrate Christmas (which maybe should also be a discussion, because it sounds like there's a bit of joint ignoring of an issue going on here).
So I would like to say a bit more explicitly than in my first post...not_the_water, it is worth the struggle to come to a place where you can be present with your family over the holiday season, however you do that. But please do do it! I believe in you.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:48 PM on December 14, 2018 [12 favorites]
I agree, it's not.
Sort-of.
If a parent is reacting out of anxiety/anger/depression, to the extent of leaving the room every time something comes up, it could be a very tough space for a child. Children, being built for survival, have pretty good radar for when a parent is in control and present, and when a parent is veering out of control because the parent cannot handle something.
It might not be traumatic but (and this is no shade thrown at you, not_the_water, you are addressing this, you rock) the lessons kids take away can be pretty mixed up.
Like I can see this child interpreting "parent leaves when I sing carols" as "I can't sing" or "my voice is something my parent hates," because the sense is that the parent is fleeing. Because that's the emotional truth underneath.
My Christmases were about as shitty as you can get and the scent of pine used to give me panic attacks, and now I'm able to go to my children's Seasonal Concert and Rudolph it out with them. I am not saying this is the way to go or that any family has to celebrate a particular way!
But if your child is in a Western context, you will have to grapple with Christmas and I highly recommend you make choices, don't just react. The whole school + Christmas thing gets worse and worse for 4.5-about 9, and then starts to get easier again.
I mean...with my oldest son, I was really on the fence and my husband and I were undecided about whether we were going to do the Santa thing. (Let's just say I am NOT A FAN for BAD REASONS). And his hijab-and-long-robes-wearing daycare teacher told him Santa would bring him presents! We decided at that point to go with it, but we didn't have to.
We could have legit celebrated Hanukkah instead because my family is ethnically Jewish, or gone along with my Buddhist meditation bent or any number of things. They might even have been better, I don't know. But we did have to be on the same page and figure out what our family holidays were going to look like, positively. Not just "fleeing a past of dysfunction and abuse."
I believe that young children in particular need one thing more than anything, and that is a sense that their parent is able to be present with them. Not every second, but certainly enough to listen to their songs. And not_the_water has stated that he wants to be present with his son for this, but is struggling. It sounds like not_the_water's wife wants to celebrate Christmas (which maybe should also be a discussion, because it sounds like there's a bit of joint ignoring of an issue going on here).
So I would like to say a bit more explicitly than in my first post...not_the_water, it is worth the struggle to come to a place where you can be present with your family over the holiday season, however you do that. But please do do it! I believe in you.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:48 PM on December 14, 2018 [12 favorites]
barely suppressed rage is really not so great, but just kinda...not being into Christmas is the kind of personality quirk that is okay in an otherwise loving family
Yes, it is. But OP is explicitly describing himself here as experiencing the former ("my ongoing and barely contained emotional response (anger, anxiety, depression)". If you didn't grow up in a house with a parent like that, then you really have no basis for accusing those of who did have that pleasure of "drama." I get it, you yourself don't care much for Christmas, you think you're right about that, and you don't want to hear about how not being into it might be a problem. But OP has been very honest and open about what he is feeling: deep and angry hate and loathing. His words, not some Ask Mefi interpolation. That is different from being vaguely bah-hambug. That is having a parent steaming with barely-repressed fury at something that is supposed to be happy, something you enjoy. You think kids don't notice that? You think they aren't afraid of how that's going to come out? You are extremely wrong. OP is making an effort to figure out how to protect his kids from his feelings. That is a really good and hard thing to do. But ultimately he can't just walk around tamping them down and covering them up forever.
posted by praemunire at 11:00 PM on December 14, 2018 [19 favorites]
Yes, it is. But OP is explicitly describing himself here as experiencing the former ("my ongoing and barely contained emotional response (anger, anxiety, depression)". If you didn't grow up in a house with a parent like that, then you really have no basis for accusing those of who did have that pleasure of "drama." I get it, you yourself don't care much for Christmas, you think you're right about that, and you don't want to hear about how not being into it might be a problem. But OP has been very honest and open about what he is feeling: deep and angry hate and loathing. His words, not some Ask Mefi interpolation. That is different from being vaguely bah-hambug. That is having a parent steaming with barely-repressed fury at something that is supposed to be happy, something you enjoy. You think kids don't notice that? You think they aren't afraid of how that's going to come out? You are extremely wrong. OP is making an effort to figure out how to protect his kids from his feelings. That is a really good and hard thing to do. But ultimately he can't just walk around tamping them down and covering them up forever.
posted by praemunire at 11:00 PM on December 14, 2018 [19 favorites]
When you are in deep hate and anger over anything you are in deep suffering and suffering will cause all sorts of relationship problems.
I don't hate Christmas, I'm neutral about Christmas, as I am about most holidays.
The story you have about Christmas in your head about being traumatic is just a thought form. Yes, another human may have harmed you and you feel that in your body and you have created thoughts about how it relates to Christmas, but you don't have to relate Christmas to anything if you don't want to. It's a manmade construct. You don't have to label Christmas as good or bad. How about instead of hating consumerism or cultural expectations, accept it and chalk it up to a mad world full of humans who will do human things. There is no need to put a very heavy burden on yourself. It's a mad world and it's unfolding as it should. No need to fell depression or joy over that fact. It just is.
The key about any activity or any act of doing: Do it with acceptance, enthusiasm, or enjoyment. Anything else is going to cause suffering to yourself and others.
Acceptance: this is what this situation, this moment, requires me to do, and so I do it willingly. (I used to complain or tell my victim story. That's the ego and pain. See someone about your pain and see if you can drop that story, whether you tell it to yourself or others.)
Enjoyment: When you make the present moment, instead of past and future, the focal point of your life, your ability to enjoy what you do–and with it, the quality of your life–increases dramatically. What if you left the past behind and noticed the present? Nothing is harming you now.
Enthusiasm: there is deep enjoyment in what you do, plus the added element of a goal or a vision that you work toward.
You don't have to enjoy or enthuse, only accept and sit in this moment. Notice and breathe and stop thinking or putting labels on what December 25 is or isn't. Take a few deep breaths, come into the moment, notice what is around you -- you could create a new story about Christmas.
posted by loveandhappiness at 7:13 AM on December 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don't hate Christmas, I'm neutral about Christmas, as I am about most holidays.
The story you have about Christmas in your head about being traumatic is just a thought form. Yes, another human may have harmed you and you feel that in your body and you have created thoughts about how it relates to Christmas, but you don't have to relate Christmas to anything if you don't want to. It's a manmade construct. You don't have to label Christmas as good or bad. How about instead of hating consumerism or cultural expectations, accept it and chalk it up to a mad world full of humans who will do human things. There is no need to put a very heavy burden on yourself. It's a mad world and it's unfolding as it should. No need to fell depression or joy over that fact. It just is.
The key about any activity or any act of doing: Do it with acceptance, enthusiasm, or enjoyment. Anything else is going to cause suffering to yourself and others.
Acceptance: this is what this situation, this moment, requires me to do, and so I do it willingly. (I used to complain or tell my victim story. That's the ego and pain. See someone about your pain and see if you can drop that story, whether you tell it to yourself or others.)
Enjoyment: When you make the present moment, instead of past and future, the focal point of your life, your ability to enjoy what you do–and with it, the quality of your life–increases dramatically. What if you left the past behind and noticed the present? Nothing is harming you now.
Enthusiasm: there is deep enjoyment in what you do, plus the added element of a goal or a vision that you work toward.
You don't have to enjoy or enthuse, only accept and sit in this moment. Notice and breathe and stop thinking or putting labels on what December 25 is or isn't. Take a few deep breaths, come into the moment, notice what is around you -- you could create a new story about Christmas.
posted by loveandhappiness at 7:13 AM on December 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Obviously, barely suppressed rage is really not so great, but just kinda...not being into Christmas is the kind of personality quirk that is okay in an otherwise loving family.
The OP literally says he feels anger and depression and "deeply and angrily hates Christmas". Kids pick up on these things. Ask me how I know (spoiler: because I have been there! We have all been children and have memories from those times!).
Christmas comes but once a year, but it does come every freakin' year and you are now in charge of your children's Christmas memories. You're building for them what was ruined for you, and it's your job to break the cycle. It sucks that's your job but that's sort of the deal when you have kids. I'm really sorry this is difficult for you and I hope that by spending time with your kids doing holiday stuff you can tolerate, you'll eventually have made some better holiday memories of your own. We're never done growing, use this as your second chance!
posted by masquesoporfavor at 9:18 AM on December 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
The OP literally says he feels anger and depression and "deeply and angrily hates Christmas". Kids pick up on these things. Ask me how I know (spoiler: because I have been there! We have all been children and have memories from those times!).
Christmas comes but once a year, but it does come every freakin' year and you are now in charge of your children's Christmas memories. You're building for them what was ruined for you, and it's your job to break the cycle. It sucks that's your job but that's sort of the deal when you have kids. I'm really sorry this is difficult for you and I hope that by spending time with your kids doing holiday stuff you can tolerate, you'll eventually have made some better holiday memories of your own. We're never done growing, use this as your second chance!
posted by masquesoporfavor at 9:18 AM on December 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
I am also NOT a Christmas person - the worst part of it is the music for me.
I agree with others that said that you can throw yourself into other traditions. I work on doing the cleaning, thinking about what to cook, making non-Christmas cookies, and concentrating on what I want to do in the New Year.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 9:37 AM on December 15, 2018
I agree with others that said that you can throw yourself into other traditions. I work on doing the cleaning, thinking about what to cook, making non-Christmas cookies, and concentrating on what I want to do in the New Year.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 9:37 AM on December 15, 2018
While he's a child I don't want him to see how upsetting I find this holiday. It's something he can figure out on his own as he gets older.
He doesn't need to see HOW upsetting you find it, but avoiding it by pretending it's urgent that you do the dishes or whatever isn't a great idea. First, he's gonna notice pretty quickly and possibly wonder if you're upset with him and/or his mom; second, you're modeling that men don't need to participate in family activities without any explanation and/or that avoidance is how men handle stress.
I advocate telling him upfront, now. Phrase it based on who he is, but something like "It's awesome that you are loving Christmas so much, and I'm sorry I haven't been joining in. I really don't like Christmas because I had bad experiences with it when I was a kid, so I try to avoid it. The winter traditions I can enjoy with you are (list)." You don't need to get into a lot of details, and if he pushes for them, you can say, "I don't want to talk about that anymore."
posted by metasarah at 8:09 AM on December 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
He doesn't need to see HOW upsetting you find it, but avoiding it by pretending it's urgent that you do the dishes or whatever isn't a great idea. First, he's gonna notice pretty quickly and possibly wonder if you're upset with him and/or his mom; second, you're modeling that men don't need to participate in family activities without any explanation and/or that avoidance is how men handle stress.
I advocate telling him upfront, now. Phrase it based on who he is, but something like "It's awesome that you are loving Christmas so much, and I'm sorry I haven't been joining in. I really don't like Christmas because I had bad experiences with it when I was a kid, so I try to avoid it. The winter traditions I can enjoy with you are (list)." You don't need to get into a lot of details, and if he pushes for them, you can say, "I don't want to talk about that anymore."
posted by metasarah at 8:09 AM on December 17, 2018 [3 favorites]
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posted by Flannery Culp at 9:49 AM on December 14, 2018 [23 favorites]