Cell-phone-based scam
October 23, 2018 6:05 PM Subscribe
My 72-year-old father has been taken in by a scammer and it is ruining his marriage and damaging his finances. I am not sure how to help (from out of state).
About 4-5 months ago, my 72-year-old dad (living in Ohio, USA) was texted out of the blue by an unknown number who managed to pull him into a scam. The scammer claims to be a woman living in Missouri. She has texted him explicit photos of herself and managed to get him to send her >$3000 in gift cards. They text nearly every day - when she went for 5 days without contacting him, he struggled to cope. She keeps promising to come to Ohio - to visit him, to get a job, etc - and strings him along with endless delays and crises etc each of which requires money from him.
His entire family, his friends, his doctors, and even the cashiers at Kroger’s where he tried to buy some of the gift cards have repeatedly warned him that this is a scam, but he is not able to digest this reality. He claims that he is in love (although somehow not cheating on my mom or betraying his very Catholic marriage vows) and is not willing to block her number or stop interacting with her.
My mom is really suffering emotionally through all of this. They have a completely enmeshed and codependent relationship and she is not equipped to divorce him and go through all the necessary legal and logistic steps that would involve. She has taken his name off the joint accounts, but he is still working full-time (for now) and has credit cards, so can still do more financial damage to himself.
It seems to me that the only way to get free of this is to make it no longer worth the scammer’s while to engage with him. In looking through the legal codes in Ohio, it appears that this is a form of telecommunications fraud. However, I am not a lawyer and I don’t really have any idea how relevant this factoid would be.
I plan to file a complaint with the FTC but my mom can’t give me the specifics that they require on the website to file. (Maybe that doesn’t even matter? Should I file anyway with only approximate information?) I called their local Elder Services hotline to report financial abuse of an elder, but they never acted on the report (he is still working full time so I guess the determination must have been that he is able to make his own [terrible] financial decisions).
What else can I do to help? What steps can my mom take to get rid of this scammer?
(I am looking mainly for logistical or legal assistance - in terms of the emotional aspects that are the true foundation of this crisis, they both have deep-seated mental health issues that they should have been addressing individually and as a couple for decades, but that is sadly not going to be a possible component of any intervention. Also, he has undergone a work-up for a possible medical or neurodegenerative disorder, of which there is no evidence as of yet.)
About 4-5 months ago, my 72-year-old dad (living in Ohio, USA) was texted out of the blue by an unknown number who managed to pull him into a scam. The scammer claims to be a woman living in Missouri. She has texted him explicit photos of herself and managed to get him to send her >$3000 in gift cards. They text nearly every day - when she went for 5 days without contacting him, he struggled to cope. She keeps promising to come to Ohio - to visit him, to get a job, etc - and strings him along with endless delays and crises etc each of which requires money from him.
His entire family, his friends, his doctors, and even the cashiers at Kroger’s where he tried to buy some of the gift cards have repeatedly warned him that this is a scam, but he is not able to digest this reality. He claims that he is in love (although somehow not cheating on my mom or betraying his very Catholic marriage vows) and is not willing to block her number or stop interacting with her.
My mom is really suffering emotionally through all of this. They have a completely enmeshed and codependent relationship and she is not equipped to divorce him and go through all the necessary legal and logistic steps that would involve. She has taken his name off the joint accounts, but he is still working full-time (for now) and has credit cards, so can still do more financial damage to himself.
It seems to me that the only way to get free of this is to make it no longer worth the scammer’s while to engage with him. In looking through the legal codes in Ohio, it appears that this is a form of telecommunications fraud. However, I am not a lawyer and I don’t really have any idea how relevant this factoid would be.
I plan to file a complaint with the FTC but my mom can’t give me the specifics that they require on the website to file. (Maybe that doesn’t even matter? Should I file anyway with only approximate information?) I called their local Elder Services hotline to report financial abuse of an elder, but they never acted on the report (he is still working full time so I guess the determination must have been that he is able to make his own [terrible] financial decisions).
What else can I do to help? What steps can my mom take to get rid of this scammer?
(I am looking mainly for logistical or legal assistance - in terms of the emotional aspects that are the true foundation of this crisis, they both have deep-seated mental health issues that they should have been addressing individually and as a couple for decades, but that is sadly not going to be a possible component of any intervention. Also, he has undergone a work-up for a possible medical or neurodegenerative disorder, of which there is no evidence as of yet.)
Call the Ohio Attorney General’s office. They have an elder fraud and abuse program.
posted by marguerite at 6:16 PM on October 23, 2018 [19 favorites]
posted by marguerite at 6:16 PM on October 23, 2018 [19 favorites]
Nothing to do with the law, but has your dad spoken to a priest? Hopefully, if your dad is serious about being Catholic, he'll listen when the priest explains this is not good and is in fact bad.
posted by Fukiyama at 6:22 PM on October 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Fukiyama at 6:22 PM on October 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
You say he's Catholic--has anyone tried to get his priest to intervene?
Barring that, though...I really hate to say this about your own dad, but if there's no evidence of mental decline--this is him deliberately choosing to do something horrible to your mother. Often scammers play on very sympathetic weaknesses; seniors on their own are lonely, others are kind-hearted even to strangers, etc. This scammer, however, seems to have tapped a vein of real shittiness in your dad. Even when people are mentally incompetent, it's difficult to disrupt these kind of scams. If he's competent and seizing the opportunity this scammer is offering him to be an asshole, there is really next to nothing you can do except get your mom as financially clear as possible (make sure she's not on any of these credit cards!) and let him experience the consequences of his own horrible behavior.
(For these kinds of scams, reporting to the FTC and your local AG is good because it may provide evidence of a bigger operation that may someday get shut down, but it almost never leads to an individual situation being fixed.)
posted by praemunire at 6:28 PM on October 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Barring that, though...I really hate to say this about your own dad, but if there's no evidence of mental decline--this is him deliberately choosing to do something horrible to your mother. Often scammers play on very sympathetic weaknesses; seniors on their own are lonely, others are kind-hearted even to strangers, etc. This scammer, however, seems to have tapped a vein of real shittiness in your dad. Even when people are mentally incompetent, it's difficult to disrupt these kind of scams. If he's competent and seizing the opportunity this scammer is offering him to be an asshole, there is really next to nothing you can do except get your mom as financially clear as possible (make sure she's not on any of these credit cards!) and let him experience the consequences of his own horrible behavior.
(For these kinds of scams, reporting to the FTC and your local AG is good because it may provide evidence of a bigger operation that may someday get shut down, but it almost never leads to an individual situation being fixed.)
posted by praemunire at 6:28 PM on October 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
If you can get ahold of the pictures and reverse search them, which I'm not super versed in. ( I think Google image search can do this, and tineye). You may find they have been swiped from online sites, although showing your dad where they came from online may not help convince him it's a scam like I would think.
posted by TheAdamist at 6:32 PM on October 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by TheAdamist at 6:32 PM on October 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Block her number from his cell phone? Change his phone number and erase hers? Contact the phone company?
posted by curtains at 6:45 PM on October 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by curtains at 6:45 PM on October 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
I also recommend finding out who she is. She's probably married herself with children living a completely different life than she's told your father she is. The truth may open his eyes. It's entirely likely she has a rap sheet and has done this to other people. You may even find that she simply messages people like your Dad all day long with similar messages.
posted by xammerboy at 7:05 PM on October 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by xammerboy at 7:05 PM on October 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
although showing your dad where they came from online may not help convince him it's a scam like I would think
Unfortunately, people faced with this kind of evidence will very often double down rather than admit they were wrong. It's what makes it so hard to save people from these kinds of scams. In a case where the person is not only being hustled of money but trashing his marriage, I would imagine the humiliation driving that kind of denial would be even more powerful.
posted by praemunire at 7:07 PM on October 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
Unfortunately, people faced with this kind of evidence will very often double down rather than admit they were wrong. It's what makes it so hard to save people from these kinds of scams. In a case where the person is not only being hustled of money but trashing his marriage, I would imagine the humiliation driving that kind of denial would be even more powerful.
posted by praemunire at 7:07 PM on October 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
- Get the number.
- Get copies of the explicit pictures to reverse search + turn in to relevant authities.
- Report the number and pictures to relevant authorities.
It’s probably not a woman. It may not be someone in the united states. It may be someone that is in the US but has been sex trafficked (this is my strongest suspicion.) It may be a scam by a US citizen, but the person is not the one in the pictures.
It’s HIGHLY likely there are additional crimes (I doubt the person in the explicit pictures consented willingly to having them taken and sent, possibly across state lines?) Most likely the pictures come from the internet.
I agree you should call your state’s attorney general’s office and explain the situation. They will tell you where to report this crime(s).
Probably don’t tell your dad. He’ll alert the criminals and you want them to get caught. This ends when whoever they are is in jail.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 7:58 PM on October 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
- Get copies of the explicit pictures to reverse search + turn in to relevant authities.
- Report the number and pictures to relevant authorities.
It’s probably not a woman. It may not be someone in the united states. It may be someone that is in the US but has been sex trafficked (this is my strongest suspicion.) It may be a scam by a US citizen, but the person is not the one in the pictures.
It’s HIGHLY likely there are additional crimes (I doubt the person in the explicit pictures consented willingly to having them taken and sent, possibly across state lines?) Most likely the pictures come from the internet.
I agree you should call your state’s attorney general’s office and explain the situation. They will tell you where to report this crime(s).
Probably don’t tell your dad. He’ll alert the criminals and you want them to get caught. This ends when whoever they are is in jail.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 7:58 PM on October 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
Can you get ahold of his phone? The number might be helpful, although I would be inclined to think that the scammer isn't US based. Has he ever had a video or a voice chat with the scammer?
Are you sure your father didn't meet them on a dating site? Texting him out of the blue sounds unusual.
I had an older friend who had a late life divorce and who fell for one of these guys. Her friends and her daughter teamed up to arrange for her to meet a security consultant who specializes in online scams and were able to convince her that it wasn't true. He (the consultant) convinced her that if this guy was real, he would agree to a video call with her or her family. Which naturally he would not do, and after running out of excuses, they were able to get her to stop messaging the scammer. She was heartbroken, of course, and now feels completely stupid but at the time she just wanted to believe she wasn't going to be alone.
posted by frumiousb at 11:43 PM on October 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
Are you sure your father didn't meet them on a dating site? Texting him out of the blue sounds unusual.
I had an older friend who had a late life divorce and who fell for one of these guys. Her friends and her daughter teamed up to arrange for her to meet a security consultant who specializes in online scams and were able to convince her that it wasn't true. He (the consultant) convinced her that if this guy was real, he would agree to a video call with her or her family. Which naturally he would not do, and after running out of excuses, they were able to get her to stop messaging the scammer. She was heartbroken, of course, and now feels completely stupid but at the time she just wanted to believe she wasn't going to be alone.
posted by frumiousb at 11:43 PM on October 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
I would get the number and the photos and do some reverse research. Have they ever spoken on the phone? (I'm guessing not, since this scammer is obviously a dude.) Tell your dad that you'll set him up to do a video chat with her, and if she won't, she's probably lying about who she is. This happens all the time, maybe you could find some news articles about similar scams and show them to him? He sounds naive and not very tech savvy - maybe he legitimately doesn't realize how prevalent and likely this is?
Otherwise, he is in denial and the means of trying to shut the scammer down legally is your best recourse. But I would keep trying to convince your father - that would be the easiest and fastest solution. Simply telling him this is a scammer obviously isn't enough since he wants to believe otherwise. The photos are surely lifted from somewhere else. The number is surely registered to a person who isn't a woman. Maybe you could even try calling the number (with your number blocked) and seeing who answers - I'm not sure what you'd say, maybe you can reverse scam them in some way - and record the call. If your father is so sure this woman is real, he should have no problem sharing her number with you so you can do a simple google search. Also, where he is sending this gift cards to? You should look that up too.
Otherwise, I'd probably call the Attorney General hotline and see if they can tell you what to do.
posted by AppleTurnover at 12:01 AM on October 24, 2018
Otherwise, he is in denial and the means of trying to shut the scammer down legally is your best recourse. But I would keep trying to convince your father - that would be the easiest and fastest solution. Simply telling him this is a scammer obviously isn't enough since he wants to believe otherwise. The photos are surely lifted from somewhere else. The number is surely registered to a person who isn't a woman. Maybe you could even try calling the number (with your number blocked) and seeing who answers - I'm not sure what you'd say, maybe you can reverse scam them in some way - and record the call. If your father is so sure this woman is real, he should have no problem sharing her number with you so you can do a simple google search. Also, where he is sending this gift cards to? You should look that up too.
Otherwise, I'd probably call the Attorney General hotline and see if they can tell you what to do.
posted by AppleTurnover at 12:01 AM on October 24, 2018
Response by poster: Thank you everyone for the answers so far. I will definitely contact the Ohio AG.
To address a couple of the additional questions,
1) We have tried to get him to agree to talk with their priest, using various reasons, but he refuses because he says he isn't doing anything wrong. Of course, to me that says that he knows very well that what he is doing is wrong. I have suggested to my mom that she couch the proposal in terms of her own spiritual needs, to deal with his behavior, to no avail.
2) He has not had video chat as far as I know, but they do speak on the phone, so there is probably a woman involved in there somewhere. My mom has given me the phone number, so I can use that to report her to the authorities.
3) In terms of using reason or trying to convince him, sadly that is a no-go. (That is why I am focusing on getting her to go away, rather than getting him to see the light. I know it might only be a temporary fix and he may fall prey to another scammer.) He has also had similar issues with a few scammers on Facebook. As an example of his imperviousness to reason, he received the same batch of photos from two different "women," and rather than realizing that they are all fake, he contacted the first person he got the photos from to alert her that someone else was distributing her pictures. !!!! The mind boggles.
posted by tentacle at 4:00 AM on October 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
To address a couple of the additional questions,
1) We have tried to get him to agree to talk with their priest, using various reasons, but he refuses because he says he isn't doing anything wrong. Of course, to me that says that he knows very well that what he is doing is wrong. I have suggested to my mom that she couch the proposal in terms of her own spiritual needs, to deal with his behavior, to no avail.
2) He has not had video chat as far as I know, but they do speak on the phone, so there is probably a woman involved in there somewhere. My mom has given me the phone number, so I can use that to report her to the authorities.
3) In terms of using reason or trying to convince him, sadly that is a no-go. (That is why I am focusing on getting her to go away, rather than getting him to see the light. I know it might only be a temporary fix and he may fall prey to another scammer.) He has also had similar issues with a few scammers on Facebook. As an example of his imperviousness to reason, he received the same batch of photos from two different "women," and rather than realizing that they are all fake, he contacted the first person he got the photos from to alert her that someone else was distributing her pictures. !!!! The mind boggles.
posted by tentacle at 4:00 AM on October 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm so sorry this is happening. It is possible that you can call the priest and ask him to do a home visit? I agree with the above suggestions to contact the Ohio AG. Some additional elder abuse resources for Ohio:
Adult Protective Services (PDF)
Ohio HOPES - NGO, has some info on reporting elder abuse
You mention his doctors - has he been in for a full workup including an assessment for dementia?
If he still has his own bank accounts, you can contact his bank and let them know what is happening. In some cases I've known of the bank will contact the victim to attempt to persuade them to stop engaging with the abuser, and may shut down the accounts - which might possibly get his attention.
posted by bunderful at 4:39 AM on October 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
Adult Protective Services (PDF)
Ohio HOPES - NGO, has some info on reporting elder abuse
You mention his doctors - has he been in for a full workup including an assessment for dementia?
If he still has his own bank accounts, you can contact his bank and let them know what is happening. In some cases I've known of the bank will contact the victim to attempt to persuade them to stop engaging with the abuser, and may shut down the accounts - which might possibly get his attention.
posted by bunderful at 4:39 AM on October 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
Call the police in his area and see if an officer could talk to him about these sorts of scams—maybe they could also put him/your mom in touch with someone else who has been victimized.
posted by epj at 6:05 AM on October 24, 2018
posted by epj at 6:05 AM on October 24, 2018
These scammers will sometimes share information among one another, so your dad will now be the target for other scams. His entire financial life is at risk. As is your mother's. Anything you can do to separate them financially is a good thing. Warn your mother that she should not sign anything he puts in front of her. The best thing you can do is try to limit the damage.
posted by thenormshow at 6:55 AM on October 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by thenormshow at 6:55 AM on October 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
Has your dad been evaluated for dementia?
posted by SyraCarol at 7:43 AM on October 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by SyraCarol at 7:43 AM on October 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
Yes, this is a "Scam", but it could be more of a quid-pro-quo relationship than many here are assuming.
He gets photos, phone conversations, and a partner to talk to EVERY DAY, for over 4-5 months.
You think she gets probably less than $10K in total? Think about her time invested here - 120 days at an hour a day, is at least 120 hours of time. I mean, that's probably at least $40 an hour, but it's not enough to live off of. Similar to going to a counselor. And, I bet some of those "gift cards" are to buy things that are used in the photos. Old people spend a LOT MORE on things like casinos and golfing than this.
At the end of the day, Your dad is getting attention that is new, young and exciting. Of course he doesn't want to give that up. He feels wanted. He feels needed. He's providing for someone.
I understand you want to protect him and protect your mom. But I don't think you'll have as much luck "pulling this curtain back on this scam" as you might think. Either he will get bored of it himself, run out of money, or realize in-person is better than you'd think.
And really, this isn't any different than going to a cam-site and donating lots of coins to the cam-girls, except he is getting way more attention for his dollar. Rather than treating this like your dad being scammed, I would treat it like your dad being addicted to porn. It's ugly and bad and hurts people, but in the end of the day, he has a need and it's being filled.
posted by bbqturtle at 8:42 AM on October 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
He gets photos, phone conversations, and a partner to talk to EVERY DAY, for over 4-5 months.
You think she gets probably less than $10K in total? Think about her time invested here - 120 days at an hour a day, is at least 120 hours of time. I mean, that's probably at least $40 an hour, but it's not enough to live off of. Similar to going to a counselor. And, I bet some of those "gift cards" are to buy things that are used in the photos. Old people spend a LOT MORE on things like casinos and golfing than this.
At the end of the day, Your dad is getting attention that is new, young and exciting. Of course he doesn't want to give that up. He feels wanted. He feels needed. He's providing for someone.
I understand you want to protect him and protect your mom. But I don't think you'll have as much luck "pulling this curtain back on this scam" as you might think. Either he will get bored of it himself, run out of money, or realize in-person is better than you'd think.
And really, this isn't any different than going to a cam-site and donating lots of coins to the cam-girls, except he is getting way more attention for his dollar. Rather than treating this like your dad being scammed, I would treat it like your dad being addicted to porn. It's ugly and bad and hurts people, but in the end of the day, he has a need and it's being filled.
posted by bbqturtle at 8:42 AM on October 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
Oh! He’s been contacted before! These scammers are part of organized crime and they ARE sharing his info!
- Find out from your AG which federal or state agency is investigating this type of crime AND include all of the details - other types of similar contacts, their numbers, any pics.
- Have whatever investigators are doing this work meet with your father. You will have to initiate this investigation, they will start working with your dad and your mom.
- Yes his entire financial life is at risk. Seek a lawyer to help you and your mom set up fraud protections and lock down his finances.
- Therapy or similar ongoing support for your mother.
This is not a personal problem. Your dad is dealing with an organized crime ring of some sort. The woman he’s talking to is likely trafficked or similar, and honestly, he may not be speaking to the same woman even if he thinks it’s just one person.
Not to mention, there are apps and software that disguise voices. The idea this is a woman could be wrong. The voice could just be a profile in the software that makes anyone sound like the particular person he’s talking to.
Seriously. This is a law enforcement issue. You do not need your dad’s permission to gather evidence and present it to the authorities. Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 11:16 AM on October 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
- Find out from your AG which federal or state agency is investigating this type of crime AND include all of the details - other types of similar contacts, their numbers, any pics.
- Have whatever investigators are doing this work meet with your father. You will have to initiate this investigation, they will start working with your dad and your mom.
- Yes his entire financial life is at risk. Seek a lawyer to help you and your mom set up fraud protections and lock down his finances.
- Therapy or similar ongoing support for your mother.
This is not a personal problem. Your dad is dealing with an organized crime ring of some sort. The woman he’s talking to is likely trafficked or similar, and honestly, he may not be speaking to the same woman even if he thinks it’s just one person.
Not to mention, there are apps and software that disguise voices. The idea this is a woman could be wrong. The voice could just be a profile in the software that makes anyone sound like the particular person he’s talking to.
Seriously. This is a law enforcement issue. You do not need your dad’s permission to gather evidence and present it to the authorities. Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 11:16 AM on October 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by fshgrl at 6:10 PM on October 23, 2018 [10 favorites]