Difference between old and new bricks
October 14, 2018 6:01 PM Subscribe
Our contractor wants us to pay 2x as much for old (pre 1970s) rather than new bricks for aesthetics. What if anything is different about old bricks from the bricks I can buy by the pallet at Home Depot and is there any reason I should care? This is for a small patio for a 100 year old home and we do like the look of aged vs brick red bricks.
If they are recycled bricks someone had to take the time to clean them for reuse, and that will definitely raise the price. Removing mortar can be a giant pain. If they are NOS bricks from the 70s, then someone may have had to pay to store them.
But yeah, ask your contractor why they cost more.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:21 PM on October 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
But yeah, ask your contractor why they cost more.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:21 PM on October 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
Modern machine-manufactured bricks are very very similar to each other, as they have to meet far stricter construction standards than existed when your c.1910–1920 house was built. Each one varies by only a few millimetres in all dimensions from any other brick and can be guaranteed to be of a similar density, consistency, and weight. A builder-bricklayer can work out the dimensions of walls and structures easily, and engineers can work out loading. A modern brick performs better as building material in almost every way to old bricks.
Older bricks varied, in small amounts, from company to company, and batch to batch. They had varying amounts of brick dust mixed back into the clay for firing, which affects the texture and consistency (modern bricks have set quantities of this established in their standards). They were mortared in irregular dimensions, depending on the requirements of the bricklayer and the bond, and the wall. As well of course in the life of the brick they've also been subject to wear and damage, mortaring and remortaring. It's the irregularity of the bricks that modern brick manufacturers can't, and have no reason to, simulate.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 6:27 PM on October 14, 2018 [11 favorites]
Older bricks varied, in small amounts, from company to company, and batch to batch. They had varying amounts of brick dust mixed back into the clay for firing, which affects the texture and consistency (modern bricks have set quantities of this established in their standards). They were mortared in irregular dimensions, depending on the requirements of the bricklayer and the bond, and the wall. As well of course in the life of the brick they've also been subject to wear and damage, mortaring and remortaring. It's the irregularity of the bricks that modern brick manufacturers can't, and have no reason to, simulate.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 6:27 PM on October 14, 2018 [11 favorites]
Eh, a lot of this depends on the brick in question. A picture of each or product listing link would help us get you better info. Generally, a few thoughts:
Older brick in good shape tend to be denser and wear better, on average, compared to cheaper newer stuff. The older stuff is indeed made differently, and has also essentially been treated to a burrn-in period, and that increases reliability.
Brick used to come in more varied finishes, materials, textures and colors than are easily available at Home Depot today.
You can get very nice new brick that are pretty much as good as old brick, and yes even with intentional irregularity, but they are harder to shop for, and would likely cost as much or more as recycled old brick.
The kind of brick they clad McMansions in today could not be used to pave a road that lasts 120 years. There are different brick for different purposes, and for good long lasting pavers in paricular, it’s not at all unreasonable to pay a little more for a recycled brick that is in good shape. If properly installed, they will likely last longer and certainly look better, in your expressed opinion.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:39 PM on October 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
Older brick in good shape tend to be denser and wear better, on average, compared to cheaper newer stuff. The older stuff is indeed made differently, and has also essentially been treated to a burrn-in period, and that increases reliability.
Brick used to come in more varied finishes, materials, textures and colors than are easily available at Home Depot today.
You can get very nice new brick that are pretty much as good as old brick, and yes even with intentional irregularity, but they are harder to shop for, and would likely cost as much or more as recycled old brick.
The kind of brick they clad McMansions in today could not be used to pave a road that lasts 120 years. There are different brick for different purposes, and for good long lasting pavers in paricular, it’s not at all unreasonable to pay a little more for a recycled brick that is in good shape. If properly installed, they will likely last longer and certainly look better, in your expressed opinion.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:39 PM on October 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
Old bricks have character; new bricks look like orange sponges.
posted by gyusan at 8:36 PM on October 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by gyusan at 8:36 PM on October 14, 2018 [5 favorites]
New bricks eventually become old bricks. Tell your contractor you want the cheap new bricks.
posted by w0mbat at 9:29 PM on October 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by w0mbat at 9:29 PM on October 14, 2018 [2 favorites]
You can get "tumbled" new bricks that are distressed slightly to round the corners and add chips and other defects. We had a patio build years ago with tumbled red brick and it looked fantastic. If you like the aesthetic, ask your contractor if that's an option.
posted by ldenneau at 11:06 PM on October 14, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by ldenneau at 11:06 PM on October 14, 2018 [8 favorites]
Yes, look at tumbled new bricks. They're chipped and worn and often have been cosmetically aged, so they look old. I'm not sure if there's a significant price difference compared to the vintage bricks, but it's worth a look in case the savings are significant.
posted by quince at 11:59 PM on October 14, 2018
posted by quince at 11:59 PM on October 14, 2018
Some old bricks cost more because they are a particularly desirable type of brick that is no longer available new. For instance down in Louisiana, "St Joe soft reds" are an iconic brick that's seen in everything from schools to courthouses to public housing projects—its distinctive look is part of the architectural landscape—and so when buildings made from it are torn down, the reclaimed bricks command a good price.
Also, in general, there's a surprising amount of manual labor that goes into recycling bricks. Typically it involves a guy with a hand chisel, chipping the old mortar off of each and every brick and also sorting them by grade. It's not very skilled or highly-paid labor, but it's a lot of work on a per-brick basis. That pushes up costs and is probably the main reason why they cost more than new ones.
At the end of the day though, it's a matter of the look. Do you prefer the appearance of reclaimed bricks—and the knowledge that they came from some other building, the feeling that the stories of that building and the people who lived and worked in it are somehow latent in the brick—as compared to the new ones? Enough to pay more for them? If you do, then it's worth it to you. If you don't, then it isn't. You can certainly ask your contractor if they know of a cheaper brick that offers a similar look, as well.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:39 AM on October 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also, in general, there's a surprising amount of manual labor that goes into recycling bricks. Typically it involves a guy with a hand chisel, chipping the old mortar off of each and every brick and also sorting them by grade. It's not very skilled or highly-paid labor, but it's a lot of work on a per-brick basis. That pushes up costs and is probably the main reason why they cost more than new ones.
At the end of the day though, it's a matter of the look. Do you prefer the appearance of reclaimed bricks—and the knowledge that they came from some other building, the feeling that the stories of that building and the people who lived and worked in it are somehow latent in the brick—as compared to the new ones? Enough to pay more for them? If you do, then it's worth it to you. If you don't, then it isn't. You can certainly ask your contractor if they know of a cheaper brick that offers a similar look, as well.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:39 AM on October 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
> Old bricks have character; new bricks look like orange sponges.
+1 for this.
We built an extension on the back of a house of roughly the same age as yours, and we were always clear we would use reclaimed brick to match the original walls. So much more character. Same as old window glass, which has 100x more personality than modern float glass - totally changes the look of a building.
For a patio, rather than a wall - maybe it's more debatable. But reclaimed matching brick would be much more sympathetic to the original building.
Your other good choice is maybe a blue engineering brick - which would be more water- and frost-proof, and so last longer. They age very nicely as a paving surface.
posted by rd45 at 2:20 AM on October 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
+1 for this.
We built an extension on the back of a house of roughly the same age as yours, and we were always clear we would use reclaimed brick to match the original walls. So much more character. Same as old window glass, which has 100x more personality than modern float glass - totally changes the look of a building.
For a patio, rather than a wall - maybe it's more debatable. But reclaimed matching brick would be much more sympathetic to the original building.
Your other good choice is maybe a blue engineering brick - which would be more water- and frost-proof, and so last longer. They age very nicely as a paving surface.
posted by rd45 at 2:20 AM on October 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Do you value the environmental sustainability of your building materials?
Making bricks is an energy intensive process, re-using them shares that energy across more than one use and more time, which is the reason some people insist upon them.
Certainly if I could afford them I'd head that direction based on that alone, with the improved aesthetics being a bonus.
posted by deadwax at 2:53 AM on October 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Making bricks is an energy intensive process, re-using them shares that energy across more than one use and more time, which is the reason some people insist upon them.
Certainly if I could afford them I'd head that direction based on that alone, with the improved aesthetics being a bonus.
posted by deadwax at 2:53 AM on October 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Not all old bricks are the same, but some are worth stealing. A fine episode of 99% Invisible on extra-legal brick recovery in St. Louis.
posted by Glomar response at 5:18 AM on October 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Glomar response at 5:18 AM on October 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
You guys, the primary plural of “brick” is “brick”. You can have a collection of bricks, like collection of fishes. But you order a pallet of brick, not a pallet of bricks.
Anyway, only cheap crappy new brick look like crap. You wouldn’t say all modern burgers are crap because you don’t care for McDonald’s right? If your contractor can’t show you high-end beautiful brick full of character and irregularity, then maybe they are not such a great contractor. Above, there are other reasons one might prefer old brick over new, but let’s not pretend that nice new brick don’t exist.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:42 AM on October 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
Anyway, only cheap crappy new brick look like crap. You wouldn’t say all modern burgers are crap because you don’t care for McDonald’s right? If your contractor can’t show you high-end beautiful brick full of character and irregularity, then maybe they are not such a great contractor. Above, there are other reasons one might prefer old brick over new, but let’s not pretend that nice new brick don’t exist.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:42 AM on October 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
You guys, the primary plural of “brick” is “brick”. You can have a collection of bricks, like collection of fishes. But you order a pallet of brick, not a pallet of bricks.
Eh kinda. I work in the building industry and a pallet of both brick and bricks sound fine to me.
posted by deadwax at 1:52 PM on October 15, 2018
Eh kinda. I work in the building industry and a pallet of both brick and bricks sound fine to me.
posted by deadwax at 1:52 PM on October 15, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
Perhaps your contractor knows someone who will sell him those bricks for the same price as what you can buy a new brick, and will pocket the margin when he resells them to you.
Perhaps your contractor is more sensitive to the appearance of your brick patio than you are, and wants it to match your old house better. Perhaps the bricks you want to buy at home depot are concrete, and not baked clay, but you haven't noticed the difference. Yet.
It could be almost anything. Have you asked your contractor?
posted by the Real Dan at 6:07 PM on October 14, 2018 [8 favorites]