Advice for an apology
May 27, 2018 12:59 AM Subscribe
14 years ago I kicked my brother out of my apartment in a fit of anxiety, and it predictably damaged our relationship. Tonight I made plans to go to dinner with him to finally apologize, how can I make sure to do it decently, and do it in a way that doesn't ruin the rest of dinner?
When my brother got divorced in 2003, he asked me if he could stay with me in my 2BR apartment. I of course said yes, and things were basically fine for about 6 months, until I chafed at a combination of constant presence outside of work hours (I usually live alone) and the lack of a strengthening of our relationship. That the latter would have occurred was an assumption on my part, but in general I felt like he was taking advantage of my generosity, not engaging with me, and I expressed this in terms of "ARE YOU EVER GOING TO LEAVE?" one day. I was singularly unreasonable about this and declined his offer to talk more about it. He had to move 100mi away in order to find a job in his profession.
I was an asshole, and I can leave it at this, as advice typically holds. He was going through a difficult time that I did not account for or appreciate (in favor of "yay, bro time!"), and I can't imagine how disruptive this was. I have been very sad about all of this since about 6mos after I did it and the big picture hit me. He's a good guy, more social than me, we share many interests, and our politics are roughly similar. I'm 50, and he's three years older.
However, I think there are aspects of our dysfunctional family (going back at least to grandparents), our history as siblings, my personal history, and any number of what I am pretty sure would be excuses or distractions about my past behavior, but are also things I'd like to be able to talk about in general in the future. As of now, whenever I bring anything like this up I tend to be met with pushback on anything other than personal responsibility. "Part of being an adult is choosing not to do bad things," is more or less a sentiment that he's expressed, which doesn't feel fair for all situations, but it's understandable given the context.
So, I don't want to make this about me and I don't want any of this to boil down to "I'm sorry, but...", but me was involved and regardless I get nervous and just. keep. talking. about. me. I know this situation is a block on our relationship, and while I've tried being nice over the past 14 years as a form of atonement, with good reason it hasn't been sufficient. I want to be closer with him, I want to be able to invite him to my same apartment, and I also want to be able to push back on dysfunctional things I see without having to think of myself as the fundamental cause of them (e.g. one reason it's taken so long for me to apologize is that I feel like he always controls the conversation, so I could never get a word in to segue). I've had two therapists in the intervening years who didn't say much more than "yes, that sounds good" to the idea of apologizing, which didn't exactly give me strength or tools to carry it out, and it was by no means pursued in my sessions. I'm currently between therapists, but there will be another in my future, probably by the end of the summer.
Also, any thoughts on whether to do this at the beginning of dinner or the end would be nice. My instinct is for the beginning, since either of us could have a stroke or be hit by a falling piano at any time and I'd hate for the apology never to occur.
When my brother got divorced in 2003, he asked me if he could stay with me in my 2BR apartment. I of course said yes, and things were basically fine for about 6 months, until I chafed at a combination of constant presence outside of work hours (I usually live alone) and the lack of a strengthening of our relationship. That the latter would have occurred was an assumption on my part, but in general I felt like he was taking advantage of my generosity, not engaging with me, and I expressed this in terms of "ARE YOU EVER GOING TO LEAVE?" one day. I was singularly unreasonable about this and declined his offer to talk more about it. He had to move 100mi away in order to find a job in his profession.
I was an asshole, and I can leave it at this, as advice typically holds. He was going through a difficult time that I did not account for or appreciate (in favor of "yay, bro time!"), and I can't imagine how disruptive this was. I have been very sad about all of this since about 6mos after I did it and the big picture hit me. He's a good guy, more social than me, we share many interests, and our politics are roughly similar. I'm 50, and he's three years older.
However, I think there are aspects of our dysfunctional family (going back at least to grandparents), our history as siblings, my personal history, and any number of what I am pretty sure would be excuses or distractions about my past behavior, but are also things I'd like to be able to talk about in general in the future. As of now, whenever I bring anything like this up I tend to be met with pushback on anything other than personal responsibility. "Part of being an adult is choosing not to do bad things," is more or less a sentiment that he's expressed, which doesn't feel fair for all situations, but it's understandable given the context.
So, I don't want to make this about me and I don't want any of this to boil down to "I'm sorry, but...", but me was involved and regardless I get nervous and just. keep. talking. about. me. I know this situation is a block on our relationship, and while I've tried being nice over the past 14 years as a form of atonement, with good reason it hasn't been sufficient. I want to be closer with him, I want to be able to invite him to my same apartment, and I also want to be able to push back on dysfunctional things I see without having to think of myself as the fundamental cause of them (e.g. one reason it's taken so long for me to apologize is that I feel like he always controls the conversation, so I could never get a word in to segue). I've had two therapists in the intervening years who didn't say much more than "yes, that sounds good" to the idea of apologizing, which didn't exactly give me strength or tools to carry it out, and it was by no means pursued in my sessions. I'm currently between therapists, but there will be another in my future, probably by the end of the summer.
Also, any thoughts on whether to do this at the beginning of dinner or the end would be nice. My instinct is for the beginning, since either of us could have a stroke or be hit by a falling piano at any time and I'd hate for the apology never to occur.
So it strikes me that the need for an apology here is like a thousand times bigger than the need for a meal to go smoothly. I'm thinking - maybe don't try to manage this interaction in some preplanned way so that you can salvage a normal mealtime with a quick subject-change into "hey, what about those [sports team]!", at the point when you feel like you've had enough of apologising because it's making you uncomfortable.
Just make the whole meal into an opportunity to apologise. Do it right at the beginning, and throw it right out into the open. "Hey bro, I asked you to come around here tonight because I really wanted to apologise for throwing you out of here that time."
Then, stop talking & hear him out on how he responds to that. Then, you get to say some of your stuff, then he gets to voice his responses again, then... you continue to have an actual conversation between two adults who are sharing their experiences & their feelings.
[on preview] If, by the end of all that, you confirm that you do in fact cherish & admire & love him... then yes, do the stuff that taff says, because that would be really powerful.
posted by rd45 at 1:16 AM on May 27, 2018 [22 favorites]
Just make the whole meal into an opportunity to apologise. Do it right at the beginning, and throw it right out into the open. "Hey bro, I asked you to come around here tonight because I really wanted to apologise for throwing you out of here that time."
Then, stop talking & hear him out on how he responds to that. Then, you get to say some of your stuff, then he gets to voice his responses again, then... you continue to have an actual conversation between two adults who are sharing their experiences & their feelings.
[on preview] If, by the end of all that, you confirm that you do in fact cherish & admire & love him... then yes, do the stuff that taff says, because that would be really powerful.
posted by rd45 at 1:16 AM on May 27, 2018 [22 favorites]
One more thing - you already know this because you mention it, but to re-iterate: "I'm sorry, but..." is not an apology. Just stop talking after the word "sorry", and let him respond. No explanations or excuses. Some of that stuff you can maybe explore in the following conversation, if it goes well. But the apology itself doesn't not include those things.
posted by rd45 at 1:20 AM on May 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by rd45 at 1:20 AM on May 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
Get really clear in your mind what it is you're actually sorry you did, and apologise only for that.
If what you're actually sorry about is the way you eventually asserted your completely reasonable need to live alone in your own space after six months of forced sharing, there's no call for you to apologize for the fact of having done so. Perfectly reasonable to confine yourself to apologizing for having given him insufficient warning and then refusing to talk about it afterwards.
Part of being an adult is choosing not to do bad things
That's true, but it cuts both ways. He also did a bad thing to you by paying no attention at all to your preference for living alone. Now, that doesn't excuse jerking him around by making him feel welcome right up to the point where you suddenly turfed him out for what I'm sure struck him as mysterious reasons, but the point is that both sides of this drama displayed a certain lack of skill at the time; nobody is entitled to ride a moral high horse.
Setting clear boundaries and doing our best to discern where others' boundaries are before we push them, even when they're not super-clear, are also parts of being an adult, and avoid many bad things.
posted by flabdablet at 2:05 AM on May 27, 2018 [17 favorites]
If what you're actually sorry about is the way you eventually asserted your completely reasonable need to live alone in your own space after six months of forced sharing, there's no call for you to apologize for the fact of having done so. Perfectly reasonable to confine yourself to apologizing for having given him insufficient warning and then refusing to talk about it afterwards.
Part of being an adult is choosing not to do bad things
That's true, but it cuts both ways. He also did a bad thing to you by paying no attention at all to your preference for living alone. Now, that doesn't excuse jerking him around by making him feel welcome right up to the point where you suddenly turfed him out for what I'm sure struck him as mysterious reasons, but the point is that both sides of this drama displayed a certain lack of skill at the time; nobody is entitled to ride a moral high horse.
Setting clear boundaries and doing our best to discern where others' boundaries are before we push them, even when they're not super-clear, are also parts of being an adult, and avoid many bad things.
posted by flabdablet at 2:05 AM on May 27, 2018 [17 favorites]
Also, any thoughts on whether to do this at the beginning of dinner or the end would be nice. My instinct is for the beginning,
Yes, I think you've gotta say your piece at the beginning. Otherwise, there will be a proverbial elephant taking up most of the room.
As for the apology itself, I go with something like this:
1. I'm sorry.
2. This is what I did that I'm sorry about.
3. Normally, I'd clarify what I'll now do differently moving forward to make sure #2 doesn't happen again. But you've been out of my life for so long I don't even know what that would be. I'm just glad we're in the same room again, communicating.
4. Listen.
Good luck.
posted by philip-random at 4:35 AM on May 27, 2018 [18 favorites]
Yes, I think you've gotta say your piece at the beginning. Otherwise, there will be a proverbial elephant taking up most of the room.
As for the apology itself, I go with something like this:
1. I'm sorry.
2. This is what I did that I'm sorry about.
3. Normally, I'd clarify what I'll now do differently moving forward to make sure #2 doesn't happen again. But you've been out of my life for so long I don't even know what that would be. I'm just glad we're in the same room again, communicating.
4. Listen.
Good luck.
posted by philip-random at 4:35 AM on May 27, 2018 [18 favorites]
Much of what taff and philip-random said. In addition, I would tell him what you specifically wrote that you want to get out of this relationship in the future:
I want to be closer with him, I want to be able to invite him to my same apartment
Good luck!
posted by charcoals at 6:27 AM on May 27, 2018
I want to be closer with him, I want to be able to invite him to my same apartment
Good luck!
posted by charcoals at 6:27 AM on May 27, 2018
I know this situation is a block on our relationship, and while I've tried being nice over the past 14 years as a form of atonement, with good reason it hasn't been sufficient. I want to be closer with him, I want to be able to invite him to my same apartment, and I also want to be able to push back on dysfunctional things I see without having to think of myself as the fundamental cause of them
There are two things you want. One is to apologize and the other is to be able to talk about difficult things with your brother that you feel you can't talk about (possibly because of the lack of apology). You need to choose one of those things for this conversation and realize that it may not necessarily be the price of admission for the other.
Put another way, it sounds to me like you've been building up "I never apologized" as the sole source of the other troubles between the two of you, but it's entirely possible that's not the case and I think part of this interaction will be you being ready for that. That is to say even if you apologize that may not mean you get to talk to your brother about family dysfunction or anything else for that matter. And you probably need to be ready for that possibility.
Only you know your brother. But if you've been being nice to him now for 14 years and you still feel like you're at an impasse, an apology is only going to be the start of patching things up, not the end.
posted by jessamyn at 7:09 AM on May 27, 2018 [16 favorites]
There are two things you want. One is to apologize and the other is to be able to talk about difficult things with your brother that you feel you can't talk about (possibly because of the lack of apology). You need to choose one of those things for this conversation and realize that it may not necessarily be the price of admission for the other.
Put another way, it sounds to me like you've been building up "I never apologized" as the sole source of the other troubles between the two of you, but it's entirely possible that's not the case and I think part of this interaction will be you being ready for that. That is to say even if you apologize that may not mean you get to talk to your brother about family dysfunction or anything else for that matter. And you probably need to be ready for that possibility.
Only you know your brother. But if you've been being nice to him now for 14 years and you still feel like you're at an impasse, an apology is only going to be the start of patching things up, not the end.
posted by jessamyn at 7:09 AM on May 27, 2018 [16 favorites]
A big apology for a major life upheaval that's been hanging out there for 14 years doesn't happen over one meal.
This time, you make a re-approachement. You say you fucked up & you say you're sorry. Then you listen.
Then later on if things are going well, you say you can't change the past but you'd like work together to make a closer future, and what does he think of that idea, and does he have any thoughts on how he would like to re-engage with you?
Make sure he has control over how the conversation, and future meetings, take place. He's the wronged party, he gets to set the tone and conditions of any reconciliation.
It's great you're doing this, it'll be hard. Good luck.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:31 AM on May 27, 2018 [6 favorites]
This time, you make a re-approachement. You say you fucked up & you say you're sorry. Then you listen.
Then later on if things are going well, you say you can't change the past but you'd like work together to make a closer future, and what does he think of that idea, and does he have any thoughts on how he would like to re-engage with you?
Make sure he has control over how the conversation, and future meetings, take place. He's the wronged party, he gets to set the tone and conditions of any reconciliation.
It's great you're doing this, it'll be hard. Good luck.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:31 AM on May 27, 2018 [6 favorites]
I would dial back the expectations of this dinner a little bit. Your goal is to apologize. You have no control over how he reacts, and only 50% of control over how the relationship progresses. You are not going to undo generations of family dynamics in one dinner. If you can focus on just the goal of saying that you're sorry for that one incident, rather than on changing decades of relationship patterns, you might find a clearer path.
It is, of course, great that you want to be closer to your brother, and I don't mean to give that up as a long-term goal, but I wouldn't make that the only way to measure the success of your dinner. If you apologize well -- regardless of how he responds -- that would be a success for this particular dinner.
posted by lazuli at 7:37 AM on May 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
It is, of course, great that you want to be closer to your brother, and I don't mean to give that up as a long-term goal, but I wouldn't make that the only way to measure the success of your dinner. If you apologize well -- regardless of how he responds -- that would be a success for this particular dinner.
posted by lazuli at 7:37 AM on May 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
Never explain, never apologise.
I think your brother’s the asshole. The six months’ accommodation you gave him counts for nothing; your friendliness since is worthless; but your show of impatience with him is unforgivable after 14 years?
Forget it. If he can’t, that’s just his own weird little hang up.
posted by Segundus at 7:39 AM on May 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
I think your brother’s the asshole. The six months’ accommodation you gave him counts for nothing; your friendliness since is worthless; but your show of impatience with him is unforgivable after 14 years?
Forget it. If he can’t, that’s just his own weird little hang up.
posted by Segundus at 7:39 AM on May 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
I don't think there is any reason for you to apologize. You did nothing wrong. You gave up your freedom to live the way you want to live by allowing your adult brother live with you for 6 months. It sounds like during that time he was unappreciative and you used his problems to excuse his bad behavior. I'm shocked that your brother hasn't apologized to you for taking advantage of your kindness.
It sounds like your family is maybe more dysfunctional than you might want to admit, so you now think your reasonable behavior was unreasonable. Your brother sounds like he uses people and twists things to blame those who have helped him. I've encountered people like this. They make it seem like they are the victim and when you apologize they use it against you in some way. Expect that if you apologize that your bother will ask for something unreasonable shortly after as a way to make you prove that you really are "sorry" and to get you in a weaker position.
posted by parakeetdog at 8:22 AM on May 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
It sounds like your family is maybe more dysfunctional than you might want to admit, so you now think your reasonable behavior was unreasonable. Your brother sounds like he uses people and twists things to blame those who have helped him. I've encountered people like this. They make it seem like they are the victim and when you apologize they use it against you in some way. Expect that if you apologize that your bother will ask for something unreasonable shortly after as a way to make you prove that you really are "sorry" and to get you in a weaker position.
posted by parakeetdog at 8:22 AM on May 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Keep in mind that the conversation may well not go the way you hope, and it's very possible that in 14 years of not talking about this, he's also had some feelings about all of it that need airing. So as others above have said, anticipate that and be ready to listen.
I recently got in touch with an old friend I hadn't been in touch with in half a dozen years, and their response confirmed that yeah, part of why they also hadn't reached out was that they thought I was more in the wrong for our falling out of touch, though I think the reality is more that we were both in the middle of difficult life situations and both of us got frustrated with trying to keep up after months of phone tag. So to actually connect again, we'll have to bridge that somehow.
I wish you luck in this! It's not easy, but it's good.
posted by limeonaire at 9:12 AM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
I recently got in touch with an old friend I hadn't been in touch with in half a dozen years, and their response confirmed that yeah, part of why they also hadn't reached out was that they thought I was more in the wrong for our falling out of touch, though I think the reality is more that we were both in the middle of difficult life situations and both of us got frustrated with trying to keep up after months of phone tag. So to actually connect again, we'll have to bridge that somehow.
I wish you luck in this! It's not easy, but it's good.
posted by limeonaire at 9:12 AM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
If what you're actually sorry about is the way you eventually asserted your completely reasonable need to live alone in your own space after six months of forced sharing, there's no call for you to apologize for the fact of having done so.
This. It sounds like there was a bit of wrong on both sides: yes, you could have set better, clearer boundaries and enforced them more gradually and in a more humane, polite way. But your brother should also have recognized that he was taking advantage of your kindness for a long time. Many people would have lost it far before the six month mark.
What concerns me is, as others have pointed out, your brother seems to have written off those six months, and has been using your handling of the end of his stay as an excuse to hold a grudge for fourteen years.. I wonder what he's getting out of that? Whatever it is, be prepared for him to not want to give it up by accepting your apology, however you choose to frame it, now.
posted by rpfields at 9:12 AM on May 27, 2018 [10 favorites]
This. It sounds like there was a bit of wrong on both sides: yes, you could have set better, clearer boundaries and enforced them more gradually and in a more humane, polite way. But your brother should also have recognized that he was taking advantage of your kindness for a long time. Many people would have lost it far before the six month mark.
What concerns me is, as others have pointed out, your brother seems to have written off those six months, and has been using your handling of the end of his stay as an excuse to hold a grudge for fourteen years.. I wonder what he's getting out of that? Whatever it is, be prepared for him to not want to give it up by accepting your apology, however you choose to frame it, now.
posted by rpfields at 9:12 AM on May 27, 2018 [10 favorites]
Never explain, never apologise.
With all respectfulness, I have never found this method to be an effective way of maintaining positive relationships. Explaining your position and thinking allows others to understand your point of view. Apologizing is about taking ownership of your part in an situation, altercation, or misunderstanding. It doesn't mean that you are solely at fault, just that you recognize the role your actions played.
I was in my late twenties before I really realized the incredible power that came with verbally acknowledging my own shortcomings/mistakes when it came to tough situations.
I have also learned that when I wholeheartedly extend grace to others, they are much more likely to do the same for me. You want to mend old fences with your brother around circumstances in which neither of you were at your best. This is the beautiful thing about relationships: a good faith, genuine attempt to make things right can alter the course of the rest of your lives, bringing peace and harmony to your dynamic.
posted by WaspEnterprises at 10:20 AM on May 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
With all respectfulness, I have never found this method to be an effective way of maintaining positive relationships. Explaining your position and thinking allows others to understand your point of view. Apologizing is about taking ownership of your part in an situation, altercation, or misunderstanding. It doesn't mean that you are solely at fault, just that you recognize the role your actions played.
I was in my late twenties before I really realized the incredible power that came with verbally acknowledging my own shortcomings/mistakes when it came to tough situations.
I have also learned that when I wholeheartedly extend grace to others, they are much more likely to do the same for me. You want to mend old fences with your brother around circumstances in which neither of you were at your best. This is the beautiful thing about relationships: a good faith, genuine attempt to make things right can alter the course of the rest of your lives, bringing peace and harmony to your dynamic.
posted by WaspEnterprises at 10:20 AM on May 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
I think the first thing to address is that you seem to have this hope that apologizing will be a magic wand to cure the issues in your relationship with your brother. It's not. However, I still think it's a good idea because it seems to be a block to a good relationship on your end. So, by all means, apologize. I like taff's approach. You don't need to make a big deal about it - just let him know you value your relationship and you're sorry for how you acted.
Please DO NOT make this about your family history. Maybe you two will get to the point where you can have a productive conversation about it, but take this one step at a time.
The other thing is that I get the sense you're worried your brother will take this as a chance to attack you for a bunch of other stuff. Which he may do, or may not do. You can't really control that, all you can control is your own behavior. This is actually a great rule of thumb for apologies in general - it's often a good thing to apologize, even if you don't get the resolution from the other person you want. They get to have their own reaction to it. The only advice I'd give you there is to resist getting into old quarrels with him if he tries to start them.
But I think no matter how this conversation goes, it'll be good for you to apologize. You'll get rid of that block you have and be ready to connect with your brother in a more authentic way.
posted by lunasol at 10:40 AM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Please DO NOT make this about your family history. Maybe you two will get to the point where you can have a productive conversation about it, but take this one step at a time.
The other thing is that I get the sense you're worried your brother will take this as a chance to attack you for a bunch of other stuff. Which he may do, or may not do. You can't really control that, all you can control is your own behavior. This is actually a great rule of thumb for apologies in general - it's often a good thing to apologize, even if you don't get the resolution from the other person you want. They get to have their own reaction to it. The only advice I'd give you there is to resist getting into old quarrels with him if he tries to start them.
But I think no matter how this conversation goes, it'll be good for you to apologize. You'll get rid of that block you have and be ready to connect with your brother in a more authentic way.
posted by lunasol at 10:40 AM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you apologize and your brother never reciprocates your desire to be closer, are you ok with that? Because that's a real possibility. 14 years ago you let him stay with you for six months, assuming it would bring you closer, and in your disappointment at that not happening you behaved in a way you wish you hadn't. So this time are you apologizing because you really feel like you were wrong and it's the right thing to do, or are you apologizing to create the relationship you long for? The first reason is great, the second reason has many failure points.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:12 PM on May 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:12 PM on May 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
1. Apologize for what you're sorry about
2. Expect it to take a while for it to "take," or for things to never work out quite like you'd like them to, so you can be pleasantly surprised if it does
Easy for me to say, but I wouldn't worry as much about the structure of your apology (and it getting out of your hands) as you seem to be. Not just because it'll only make you more nervous, but because a lot of The "Right" Apology discourse is based on much different situations than the one you find yourself in. There's no reason an apology between estranged family members needs to be the same as an apology given by a public figure to someone he's wronged, or one coworker to another, or whatever.
Do your best, let him take the lead after the words are out, and be patient with him and with yourself. If it doesn't work out it won't be because you didn't follow the apology style guide as well as you wanted to.
posted by Polycarp at 12:41 PM on May 27, 2018
2. Expect it to take a while for it to "take," or for things to never work out quite like you'd like them to, so you can be pleasantly surprised if it does
Easy for me to say, but I wouldn't worry as much about the structure of your apology (and it getting out of your hands) as you seem to be. Not just because it'll only make you more nervous, but because a lot of The "Right" Apology discourse is based on much different situations than the one you find yourself in. There's no reason an apology between estranged family members needs to be the same as an apology given by a public figure to someone he's wronged, or one coworker to another, or whatever.
Do your best, let him take the lead after the words are out, and be patient with him and with yourself. If it doesn't work out it won't be because you didn't follow the apology style guide as well as you wanted to.
posted by Polycarp at 12:41 PM on May 27, 2018
Apologies and healing rifts like this are a major project but one that can be really meaningful and worthwhile even if they don't work out the way you wanted.
I think you could start out by saying "I'd like to have a better relationship with you, and I think that has to start by me expressing how sorry I am about the way I kicked you out after your divorce." Then I'd describe what you imagine about how it hurt him. ("It must have taken you completely by surprise. And for this to happen while you were still reeling from the divorce...")
I wouldn't expect this to be the end of it; you'll probably have to have at least 3 more conversations about it.
Being real will help. The more honest and open you are, the better you'll feel, and they'll be able to tell too. Since the whole point is to build closeness, being real just matters. I actually went through a situation where someone was mad at me, but part of why they were mad is that they thought I didn't care about how strained our relationship was. So my apologies didn't help. They didn't really get that I cared until I started expressing that I was angry about some of the ways they were acting out passive aggressively. Regardless, even if that doesn't happen with you, it's unlikely that you'll get what you want until you start speaking to what isn't working for you.
I wouldn't listen to the people saying he should be over this or brought it upon himself. What you did might've really hurt. Which is fine, you aren't a perfect person. You don't need to carry this guilt forever. But part of letting it go will be expressing that you are sorry to him and being open to hear what he wants to express about how it felt.
posted by salvia at 2:31 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think you could start out by saying "I'd like to have a better relationship with you, and I think that has to start by me expressing how sorry I am about the way I kicked you out after your divorce." Then I'd describe what you imagine about how it hurt him. ("It must have taken you completely by surprise. And for this to happen while you were still reeling from the divorce...")
I wouldn't expect this to be the end of it; you'll probably have to have at least 3 more conversations about it.
Being real will help. The more honest and open you are, the better you'll feel, and they'll be able to tell too. Since the whole point is to build closeness, being real just matters. I actually went through a situation where someone was mad at me, but part of why they were mad is that they thought I didn't care about how strained our relationship was. So my apologies didn't help. They didn't really get that I cared until I started expressing that I was angry about some of the ways they were acting out passive aggressively. Regardless, even if that doesn't happen with you, it's unlikely that you'll get what you want until you start speaking to what isn't working for you.
I wouldn't listen to the people saying he should be over this or brought it upon himself. What you did might've really hurt. Which is fine, you aren't a perfect person. You don't need to carry this guilt forever. But part of letting it go will be expressing that you are sorry to him and being open to hear what he wants to express about how it felt.
posted by salvia at 2:31 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Been there, done that and my only advice I can give you would be to keep your expectations modest. For,us, it wasn’t the same cause (there was some blended family stuff, she is a daddy’s girl and was very defensive about the way she believed I treated our father). But the more I tried to clarify and explain, the muddier it got. It’s now about seven years since I ‘apologized’ and she still brings up past things (most of them dating back two decades at this point) and will periodically shun me for a bit over some perceived insult. I have to be very careful about what I say to her and so,w topkxs, we simply cannot discuss.
posted by ficbot at 4:30 PM on May 27, 2018
posted by ficbot at 4:30 PM on May 27, 2018
I commented earlier but just wanted to make clear that, rather than viewing this as a "one and done" thing, try to see it as an ongoing effort to mend things. Hopefully he will also want to try to mend things and to try to bring the relationship to that next level that you're seeking. But even after this first conversation, both of you will likely have feelings that come up again and need discussed. It might even be as if you hadn't apologized, since he may have gotten into a mental / emotional rut over the past 14 years, and that takes time to undo. But it's definitely a worthy effort!
posted by salvia at 9:50 PM on May 27, 2018
posted by salvia at 9:50 PM on May 27, 2018
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Do this at the end as you part.
Do it the next time you meet too. At the end.
posted by taff at 1:12 AM on May 27, 2018 [11 favorites]