Can I walk or should I play it safe?

May 12, 2018 12:08 AM

I'm hopeful that I'm going to have a new job soon. The interview is next week. If I get it, I'd like to start ASAP—no two weeks' notice at the old job. Is it possible to tell the new job this without looking flakey?

This is in the US.

My existing management is pretty irritating. I feel like I've been repeatedly lied to and disrespected, pushed to do unsafe things, made to do work that shouldn't be part of my job, etc. Basically just treated like I'm completely expendable and interchangeable. I'm trying to find a new job and if I get it I don't intend to give notice at the old one, partly because I just want to get the hell out of there, partly because I think if I do give notice they'll make my last couple of weeks unpleasant, and partly just to make the (probably futile) point that if they aren't going to respect their workers, their workers might not respect them in turn.

I have an interview coming up soon for a job I think I'm likely to get, at a place that I think is likely to be a lot nicer to work for. I'm anticipating that at some point during the interview process they'll ask me when I would be available to start. I'd like to say something like "immediately" or "how soon would you be ready for me?" but I'm concerned that if I do that, they'll know that I'm not giving customary notice at my old place (they know I am currently employed) and they'll worry that I'm likely to walk out on them one day as well.

Now, there's not much risk of that. I've never had a job before that I thought didn't deserve two weeks' notice; this is an unusual case. This new place would have to be pretty bad for me to feel this way. But I know I can't just tell them, "Don't worry, as long as you're not assholes you'll be fine."

So, is my concern a valid one? Will implying that I'm willing to walk out of my old job with no notice be a black mark against me at the new one, or will that be outweighed by my willingness to start working for the new one immediately? Is there a way to phrase it that will come off better for the people at the new place? Or should I just play it safe, tell the new people that I'd need to give two weeks, and grit my teeth to the end?

Thanks much!

posted by anonymous to Work & Money (25 answers total)

I’d grit my teeth and play it safe.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 12:12 AM on May 12, 2018 [9 favorites]

Would it be possible to have it both ways, and tell your presumable new job, "I'll ask how long they need me to stick around and I'll get back to you," then just quit without notice and call them again and say, "when do you want me?"

If new job found out, it would make you look bad, though.
posted by Rinku at 12:12 AM on May 12, 2018 [2 favorites]

Can you afford 2 weeks off?

Tell the new company you're obliged to give 2 weeks' notice, then when you get the offer just quit the current gig.

Nobody should be pushed to do unsafe things.
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 12:42 AM on May 12, 2018 [27 favorites]

You could come up with a fib, like, "I spoke to my direct supervisor who is supportive about this opportunity so I think I can start pretty quickly" and leave it at that and see when they want you to start. Or, if they will be speaking with your direct supervisor, then just adjust it to someone else. "I spoke to the department head..." or whatever. Then, whatever date they propose, say you'll need to check but you think it should be do-able, and then tell them later that day or the next day that X start date works. I have switched jobs where when I told them, they said I don't need to give two weeks and I left in one. So it's not like that's crazy. But at least act like you're communicating with your old job.

Otherwise, I would take the two-week break and enjoy it, if you can afford to. If you said, "I want to start tomorrow" that would look weird.
posted by AppleTurnover at 1:26 AM on May 12, 2018 [3 favorites]

You could endanger your job offer, if you get it, by telling the new company you could start immediately. As a former boss, I would not want to hire someone who was obviously willing to quit without notice regardless of how justified that person felt. Also, all the jobs I have had in the US came with a probationary period. Is there any chance that news about you quitting your current job without notice could get to your new company after you get hired? I am not saying you could get fired at your new job for quitting your old job without notice; I am saying think carefully about any and all potential risks before you quit without notice.

partly just to make the (probably futile) point that if they aren't going to respect their workers, their workers might not respect them in turn.

Yup, totally futile. If it is true you have been pushed to do unsafe things, and you have documented that, it might be more effective to report the company anonymously in some way.

Since you have no fucks left to give, can the company truly make you miserable if you give notice? If this place is truly dangerous, though, then sure. Just bail. Your safety is more important than anything else. But if it's not that bad, consider giving one-week notice only and then taking a week's vacation before the new job.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:46 AM on May 12, 2018 [9 favorites]

In my experience it's not uncommon for the kind of company you are working for now to react to your two weeks' notice by showing you the door immediately. Even if not, give the notice, put in minimal effort, and let any unpleasantness roll over your head. You won't have to care any more.
posted by Gnella at 3:51 AM on May 12, 2018 [4 favorites]

The entire concept of two weeks notice has gone the way of the milkman. If you're concerned about telling the new job something about why you can leave right away, either tell them that no handoff is required because (XYZ), or tell them that you've already prepared a comprehensive set of handoff notes so as not to leave your coworkers in the lurch.
posted by ftm at 4:12 AM on May 12, 2018 [6 favorites]

Will implying that I'm willing to walk out of my old job with no notice be a black mark against me at the new one, or will that be outweighed by my willingness to start working for the new one immediately? I

As a hiring manager, this would be a giant red flag in a candidate. Do it to someone else, you would do it to me.
posted by frumiousb at 4:35 AM on May 12, 2018 [11 favorites]

I don't know if this would be considered socially correct or not, but could you say something to new job along the lines of "I'm going to give my two weeks' notice, but Old Job is the kind of place that kicks you out the door once you give your notice, so I may be able to start even sooner?"
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:37 AM on May 12, 2018 [8 favorites]

Tell them you have to give two weeks notice. They don’t need to know the notice is for yourself, so you can have a holiday.
posted by Jubey at 4:43 AM on May 12, 2018 [7 favorites]

If you are paid hourly, you I would not feel obliged to give two weeks notice. Otherwise, I'd stick it out.

If you leave before two weeks is up, scrap the entire time you were at that company from your resume, along with all of the stuff you did there. You have no references there and you do *not* want an employer to verify your employment with that company because it will come out at least that you are not eligible for rehire at that company.

If you are totally changing industry - once again, it may not reach you, but the employment verification process is where you will get bit. A new company wants to know that when this employee leaves - they burn the bridge they arrived on.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:15 AM on May 12, 2018

FWIW, unless you agreed to it in a contract, you are not obliged to give your current employer any advance notice. I mean, they wouldn't give you any notice if they planned to can you, so why should you?

That said, if you tell your current employer what you are planning, they will can you on the spot. As in "collect your things and get out now."

As for what your prospective employer might think, I really don't think they'll really care. If anything, it might give them the impression that you are someone who knows what they want and can act decisively. Those are often seen as positive traits.

In any case, I wouldn't worry about it. Tell the potential employer you can start asap, with the understanding that you will definitely be burning a bridge with the old employer and will most likely never be able to use them as a reference, if that matters to you.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:03 AM on May 12, 2018

The entire concept of two weeks notice has gone the way of the milkman.

Say what? At least in my circles it's still considered generally necessary to give two week notice. You can fudge a little, but just quitting is not acceptable.

I agree with others - play it safe. Say you need to give two weeks' notice. Give the two weeks' notice, but they may let you go on the spot, or if they ask you to do anything you consider unsafe while you're doing your final stint, walk. If it's merely annoying, just shrug it off - you're out of there.

Good luck getting the new gig, and I hope it's a better situation for you.
posted by jzb at 6:04 AM on May 12, 2018 [6 favorites]

Another possibility is to say that your end date at your job is "Friday" or whatever, which would imply that you already gave notice?
posted by metasarah at 6:13 AM on May 12, 2018

The way I've handled this in the past is, " I'd like to be professional and give two weeks notice, but I'm pretty sure they will show me the door immediately when I do that, so can I start sooner if that happens? That way if they say yes you still retain the ability to tell your current employer to take this job and shove it if you really want to.
posted by COD at 6:40 AM on May 12, 2018 [19 favorites]

If you said, "I want to start tomorrow" that would look weird.

This one is true. I recommend using proactive but vague language like that AppleTurnover suggests, indicating your eagerness and flexibility but also reflecting on you as a professional who will dot all i's and cross all t's. And do not give a hint of notice until you have a signed offer in hand and have passed the background check.

In your shoes, though, if you can last the 2 weeks (maybe plus given pay cycles) between paychecks, I recommend taking the full 2 for yourself after ending the old job. Recovering from a toxic work environment is not as easy and immediate as it seems. It will really help your performance in the new job if you can spend some time decompressing and letting go of everything from the old job. It should feel like a distant memory when you start the new one, not like you leapt from a burning building and are just standing up to see where you are and what you injured.

What does your vacation/PTO situation look like? IF you have any at all, the org might be obligated to be sure that you get it, either in the form of cash or in time. So it's quite possible your notice negotiation looks like "I have 8 days vacation remaining, so my last day in the office will be the 4th and I'll use the remaining PTO to cover the rest of the pay cycle. " Consult your workplace manual on this one to know what the possibilities are. If that's the case, you can both give a flat 2 weeks AND be out of the job sooner.

I have to agree that the world of "2 weeks notice" is changing and that it's very employer- and industry-dependent. In most cases these days, if I have secured a new employee I want them aboard and contributing, and I could really care less how they got out of their last job. That's up to them to negotiate. I already know about their character from the references, so it's not like this is a determinative piece of evidence. And I don't really worry about how they might do this to me in future, because that's a long way off and my workplace and management of them will be different and it's likely if they're happy they won't do this. Also, as a GenX manager I really understand that companies do not exist to be on your side and employees have to look out for #1, so as a manager you've always gotta have a contingency for sudden gaps in staff. I would not find this a negative mark on someone's record, but then again I'm not in a super corporate industry with a lot of intense HR stuff around it. So judge accordingly - 2 weeks is probably still very much best practice, giving the employer some semblance of control and planning time, but "feel free to clean out your desk right now and don't bother showing up for the 2 weeks" is a fairly common response to it, too.
posted by Miko at 7:12 AM on May 12, 2018 [3 favorites]

The entire concept of two weeks notice has gone the way of the milkman.

This statement is shocking to me. I have been on hiring committees, and I would strenuously argue against a candidate who was planning to quit without notice - except I wouldn't even have to argue because I can't imagine anyone choosing that person over someone else.

Also, don't lie. It's quite possible that someone from your old job knows someone from the new position or will even end up working at the new place too. It will not go well for you if your lie is found out.

And this may be obvious, so I'm sorry if it is, but do not under any circumstances complain about your current position in the interview. I have seen that as the direct cause of someone not getting hired. The thing to remember is the people interviewing do not know you and are not your friends. They are not going to assume that you're right and your employer is terrible. They are more likely to worry that you're someone who is impossible to please. They aren't just trying to determine whether you're qualified - they're trying to figure out if you're a good fit. And no one likes to work with a chronic complainer. (Not saying you are one, just that you would look like you might be one.)
posted by FencingGal at 7:56 AM on May 12, 2018 [5 favorites]

I would definitely consider giving your current employer two weeks notice, and being ready to leave as soon as you do. I just went through a similar scenario leaving a toxic job. I did end up completing my two weeks notice, but gave myself a couple days off between jobs. I also asked my new employer if they were open to an earlier start date if that became an option during the process. New boss has some familiarity with my old boss and some of the shenanigans he pulls when people leave, so it worked out and I didn't have to explain more than that.

One other thing I should mention, you should be careful about telling your new coworkers /boss about your old shitty job. I learned this lesson the hard way previously. Its one if those situations where my boss and I both know that we each know that my old workplace was shitty, but I haven't talked about it directly and don't plan on it.
posted by snowysoul at 7:58 AM on May 12, 2018 [2 favorites]

I would tell the interviewer that I’m planning on giving two weeks notice. They’ll understand and see it as professional. Once the job offer is in place and confirmed, if the old job ends up not scheduling you or showing you the door or being jerks or whatever, you can spend the two weeks not actually working if need be. Worst case is you’ve got two unpaid weeks to relax, and at that point you can call up your new place and let them know that you’re available earlier than expected, if they’d like to move your start date up. These things happen but you don’t want them to think that you are someone who would quit a job with no notice.
posted by beandip at 8:19 AM on May 12, 2018 [2 favorites]

No one would bat an eye at "I can start immediately". Maybe you've already quit, maybe you're being laid off, maybe the company is imploding -- being available immediately is absolutely not a red flag.
posted by so fucking future at 10:51 AM on May 12, 2018 [3 favorites]

What? No, don't tell a prospective employer that you're intending to not give notice. That would be seen as a major indicator of unprofessionalism in any of the (many, many) hiring committees I've been involved in.

Tell them "I will be professional and give two weeks' notice, but they have been known to immediately walk people when they give notice, so if that were to happen I could start earlier."

Do not suggest that you can start immediately, that makes it look like you are involved in some sort of trouble at your company and don't have the option to stay.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:29 PM on May 12, 2018 [1 favorite]

Give notice and suck it up. If you just up and quit, not only are you burning your reference at that job, you’re making it much harder to get a foot in the door at any other company in the future that any of your coworkers might land at down the road. They’ll remember what you did and they won’t remember you kindly for it, even if everyone knows that job is a hellscape.
posted by Andrhia at 4:43 PM on May 12, 2018

Based on the answers here, it seems like how unfavorably people at the new and old place will view this is highly dependent on industry, company culture and even individual bosses. If you don’t know whether leaving without notice is appropriate for your situation (and you don’t, obviously, hence the question), you should play it safe.

Two weeks is a really short amount of time. Suck it up, act like a professional, and leave with your head held high (while also hoping they ask you to leave sooner). I get the urge to flounce out of somewhere that sucks, but that can make you look childish and impulsive, and people remember.
posted by jeoc at 6:00 AM on May 13, 2018 [1 favorite]

No one would bat an eye at "I can start immediately". Maybe you've already quit, maybe you're being laid off, maybe the company is imploding -- being available immediately is absolutely not a red flag.

Yup, this.

"I can start immediately."
"Oh, really? Don't you need to give notice?"
"I appreciate that, but in this case it's all set. I can start immediately."
posted by Rock Steady at 11:02 AM on May 14, 2018 [1 favorite]

And as someone who does hiring all the time, this would not raise a red flag for me at all. People leave jobs for all sorts of reasons - good, bad and otherwise - and I don't assume I know enough about your situation to judge you.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:09 AM on May 14, 2018 [1 favorite]