What's the monetary value of being the orignal owner of a car?
April 26, 2018 10:50 PM Subscribe
I bought a new car in 2013. The dealership completely messed up the registration and it took months to unravel but was eventually sorted out. Then in 2017, I discovered I was no longer the registered owner of the car, which I also eventually got righted . Due to all these things, the vehicle history shown three owners over time. Does this suck for me once I try to sell the car? I am the original owner, according the sales record, DMV, and the dealership but will anyone care about the CarFax report?
No one has ever fully explained what happened or why. When I purchased the car in October 2013 in Northern California, I waited a couple weeks to receive the license plates but when it had been a while, I called to ask about the registration and find out why I hadn't received plates yet. I was told that the delay was totally normal and that everything was in order. However, I called DMV several weeks later, and was told that the VIN for my car was registered to someone else. I think the explanation was that a the car had been in a failed sale prior to our purchasing it and somehow the dealer mixed up. I got a registration card in January 2014 with a renewal date of May 2014. In June 2014 , I hadn't received a renewal notice so I called DMV and they informed me that the registration was still pending and couldn't be renewed. Later that month, I got the new registration sticker., finally I paid off the car in early 2016 and successfully renewed the registration in 2015 and 2016 after receiving the normal renewal notice.
In August 2017, I was pulled over by CHP for expired tags. This was a surprise to me as I had never received renewal forms from the DMV, despite having renewed the registration in 2015 and 2016. I was further shocked to be informed by the CHP officer that the car that I was driving, that had been in my possession since October 2013, was, according to the information he could access, not registered to me. As far as he was concerned, I was driving someone else's car. After considerable discussion, a few more phone calls and the issuance of a fix-it ticket, he let me go.
With an impending court date for this ticket, I then made numerous calls to the DMV who confirmed that yes, the VIN that I was reporting to them was registered to someone in Southern California. They suggested I contact the dealership since from their records, there were numerous inconsistencies and irregularities in the history of "my" car and that I get the VIN verified at my local DMV. Of course the stupid dealership (Dublin Mazda, you are the worst) had a million excuses and no one could give me a straight answer as to why the registration changed again but I did get the VIN verified at the DMV and they issued a temporary registration while they sorted it out in Sacramento. At the end of October, 2017 the DMV was able to correct my registration and issued me a new sticker to make my plates current. However, all of the previous transactions transferring title back and forth between the incorrect owner and me were still on the vehicle history and though I was the original owner of the car, the history made it appear otherwise. DMV advised that the only way to clear the record was for the dealership to submit new paperwork (a new report of sale?) but the dealer, including the General Manager, says they've done all they can do.
So now the CarFax report says Owner 1: Purchased 2013 (Corporate) 160 miles. Owner 2: 2014 (Personal) 22,000 miles, Owner 3: 2016 (Personal) 39,000 miles. The DMW won't disclose what their in-house records say.
Am I the third owner of the car, according to anyone that looks at the vehicle history and will that matter to anyone who I try to sell it to? I have no plans to sell it any time soon but I'm annoyed that it appears that I'm not the original owner.
And I just successfully renewed again so hopefully this time it will stick.
No one has ever fully explained what happened or why. When I purchased the car in October 2013 in Northern California, I waited a couple weeks to receive the license plates but when it had been a while, I called to ask about the registration and find out why I hadn't received plates yet. I was told that the delay was totally normal and that everything was in order. However, I called DMV several weeks later, and was told that the VIN for my car was registered to someone else. I think the explanation was that a the car had been in a failed sale prior to our purchasing it and somehow the dealer mixed up. I got a registration card in January 2014 with a renewal date of May 2014. In June 2014 , I hadn't received a renewal notice so I called DMV and they informed me that the registration was still pending and couldn't be renewed. Later that month, I got the new registration sticker., finally I paid off the car in early 2016 and successfully renewed the registration in 2015 and 2016 after receiving the normal renewal notice.
In August 2017, I was pulled over by CHP for expired tags. This was a surprise to me as I had never received renewal forms from the DMV, despite having renewed the registration in 2015 and 2016. I was further shocked to be informed by the CHP officer that the car that I was driving, that had been in my possession since October 2013, was, according to the information he could access, not registered to me. As far as he was concerned, I was driving someone else's car. After considerable discussion, a few more phone calls and the issuance of a fix-it ticket, he let me go.
With an impending court date for this ticket, I then made numerous calls to the DMV who confirmed that yes, the VIN that I was reporting to them was registered to someone in Southern California. They suggested I contact the dealership since from their records, there were numerous inconsistencies and irregularities in the history of "my" car and that I get the VIN verified at my local DMV. Of course the stupid dealership (Dublin Mazda, you are the worst) had a million excuses and no one could give me a straight answer as to why the registration changed again but I did get the VIN verified at the DMV and they issued a temporary registration while they sorted it out in Sacramento. At the end of October, 2017 the DMV was able to correct my registration and issued me a new sticker to make my plates current. However, all of the previous transactions transferring title back and forth between the incorrect owner and me were still on the vehicle history and though I was the original owner of the car, the history made it appear otherwise. DMV advised that the only way to clear the record was for the dealership to submit new paperwork (a new report of sale?) but the dealer, including the General Manager, says they've done all they can do.
So now the CarFax report says Owner 1: Purchased 2013 (Corporate) 160 miles. Owner 2: 2014 (Personal) 22,000 miles, Owner 3: 2016 (Personal) 39,000 miles. The DMW won't disclose what their in-house records say.
Am I the third owner of the car, according to anyone that looks at the vehicle history and will that matter to anyone who I try to sell it to? I have no plans to sell it any time soon but I'm annoyed that it appears that I'm not the original owner.
And I just successfully renewed again so hopefully this time it will stick.
I expect this will mostly depend on what kind of car it is and when you're going to sell it. If it's a normal unfancy car that you're planning to pretty much drive into the ground, then the value of the car when you sell it as the original owner would be exactly one pittance. Selling as the third owner might only get you 0.90 or 0.95 pittances, representing a loss of as much as a one-tenth of diddly-squat. Once you start approaching the scrap value of the car, no one curr how many people have owned that chunk of steel.
Unless this is like a S-class Mercedes or something, or you are a bored retiree and spending hours dealing with this is more interesting than watching Murder She Wrote again, it's unlikely to be worth your time to pursue. Get your revenge on the dealership by bad-mouthing it to everyone you know who's looking for a car.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:20 AM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Unless this is like a S-class Mercedes or something, or you are a bored retiree and spending hours dealing with this is more interesting than watching Murder She Wrote again, it's unlikely to be worth your time to pursue. Get your revenge on the dealership by bad-mouthing it to everyone you know who's looking for a car.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:20 AM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Boy this sounds confusing. Sounds like you have proper title and registration now, so that's good. If, like me, you tend to drive cars for decades until they die or trad them in for a pittance, you are probably fine.
But here's another way to look at it. The car is an asset you own - it has value, just like the money in your bank account. If you suddenly needed money, you could sell that asset and get at it's value.
A used car with one owner is an asset worth more than the same used car with multiple owners. I for one would be suspect of someone trying to sell me a car with a complicated story about the registration. I've bought used cars where the title and registration turned out to mysteriously be in someone else's name that I'm not allowed to talk to.... and it's a huge headache.
So through no fault of your own, through their errors the dealer, or the DMV, has caused your asset to decrease in value. Accounting wise, it's the same as if they took money out of your savings account.
Sounds like they dealer fix it, but it's a headache and their only goal is to make their monthly sales targets, so they are putting you off.
You should look up what your state has for unfair and deceptive business practice law and send them a certified "demand letter". In my state it's called a 30-day demand letter. You could do some basic research on the price difference with multiple owners and ask them to please pay that or fix the paperwork. If they don't respond, you can file paperwork for small claims court and see if they appear.
That will put a dollar amount large enough for the dealer to sit up and take notice - and my guess is if you follow up with several polite phone calls asking how this can be amicably resolved, explaining how you have tried all you can at the DMV but gotten nowhere, and surely as they do registrations every day they must have a better relationship with the DMV, suddenly you will find them working on the paperwork.
posted by sol at 7:42 AM on April 27, 2018
But here's another way to look at it. The car is an asset you own - it has value, just like the money in your bank account. If you suddenly needed money, you could sell that asset and get at it's value.
A used car with one owner is an asset worth more than the same used car with multiple owners. I for one would be suspect of someone trying to sell me a car with a complicated story about the registration. I've bought used cars where the title and registration turned out to mysteriously be in someone else's name that I'm not allowed to talk to.... and it's a huge headache.
So through no fault of your own, through their errors the dealer, or the DMV, has caused your asset to decrease in value. Accounting wise, it's the same as if they took money out of your savings account.
Sounds like they dealer fix it, but it's a headache and their only goal is to make their monthly sales targets, so they are putting you off.
You should look up what your state has for unfair and deceptive business practice law and send them a certified "demand letter". In my state it's called a 30-day demand letter. You could do some basic research on the price difference with multiple owners and ask them to please pay that or fix the paperwork. If they don't respond, you can file paperwork for small claims court and see if they appear.
That will put a dollar amount large enough for the dealer to sit up and take notice - and my guess is if you follow up with several polite phone calls asking how this can be amicably resolved, explaining how you have tried all you can at the DMV but gotten nowhere, and surely as they do registrations every day they must have a better relationship with the DMV, suddenly you will find them working on the paperwork.
posted by sol at 7:42 AM on April 27, 2018
Eh. We've bought and sold lots of cars via CL and we always check the CarFax. This probably wouldn't be a red flag for us, but for good measure, if you were going to sell the car private party I would state clearly in the ad "original owner", and then have a casual conversation about it at the test drive. "Dublin Mazda really screwed up the paperwork and it took me a long time to get the registration corrected. But here are my original purchase documents..." something along those lines. If the car is otherwise solid AND you have the pink slip in hand, a buyer probably won't care too much about the ownership history.
The only times we've ever walked away from deals were ones where the seller did not have the pink slip in hand or it wasn't in their name (this is surprisingly common, and we've learned to screen for it before setting up the initial test drive).
It's also in your favor if you have the maintenance records. As many as you can scrounge up. Especially as they relate to the period where you were not the owner of record.
posted by vignettist at 8:07 AM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
The only times we've ever walked away from deals were ones where the seller did not have the pink slip in hand or it wasn't in their name (this is surprisingly common, and we've learned to screen for it before setting up the initial test drive).
It's also in your favor if you have the maintenance records. As many as you can scrounge up. Especially as they relate to the period where you were not the owner of record.
posted by vignettist at 8:07 AM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
Ownership history of cars is typically not a major factor in value. There are exceptions with cars that are very desirable (expensive), or the owner/history matters. If someone famous owned the car, or there was some significant history related to the car - racing, historical event.
Otherwise, based on your description, the value would suffer very little if at all.
If you have the service history of the car, in your name, there should be some mileage information in the paperwork showing you as the one maintaining the vehicle. This should be good enough for a typical buyer of a typical car.
posted by bonofasitch at 9:23 AM on April 27, 2018
Otherwise, based on your description, the value would suffer very little if at all.
If you have the service history of the car, in your name, there should be some mileage information in the paperwork showing you as the one maintaining the vehicle. This should be good enough for a typical buyer of a typical car.
posted by bonofasitch at 9:23 AM on April 27, 2018
Response by poster: Thanks. Yes, it is confusing and everytime I try to explain it even I get confused since none of it adds up and there are two other parties (dealer and DMV) that know things they aren’t telling me.
But on the whole I’m at least more settled in that this isn’t a huge red flag to a potential buyer. It’s not a fancy car (Mazda3 hatchback) and I’m guessing I’ll keep it a few more years but not much longer than that and I have all the paperwork including for maintenance.
So annoying that there don’t seem to be any consequences for the dealer beyond my Yelp reviews. I don’t know how much more energy I can expend on this so though I like the demand letter, I probably won’t get around to it.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 8:10 PM on April 27, 2018
But on the whole I’m at least more settled in that this isn’t a huge red flag to a potential buyer. It’s not a fancy car (Mazda3 hatchback) and I’m guessing I’ll keep it a few more years but not much longer than that and I have all the paperwork including for maintenance.
So annoying that there don’t seem to be any consequences for the dealer beyond my Yelp reviews. I don’t know how much more energy I can expend on this so though I like the demand letter, I probably won’t get around to it.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 8:10 PM on April 27, 2018
If you have service records dating back to when the car is new, or the original bill of sale, that would help establish the fact that you are the sole owner of the car.
posted by coldhotel at 5:30 AM on April 28, 2018
posted by coldhotel at 5:30 AM on April 28, 2018
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If you are trading it into a dealer - they don't give a damn as long as you have the legal right to sell it to them.
posted by COD at 5:12 AM on April 27, 2018