Underage Offspring Wants to Try Drinking. Advice?
April 23, 2018 2:03 PM Subscribe
Son is 15 and is heading to his first party where there will be drinking. He has spoken to me and Mrs. Ashtray Elvis about trying it but we are conflicted. I never drank by choice and didn't feel peer pressure from friends to do it, where on the other hand, my wife indulged. Is 15 too early to booze?
Should we be those kind of parents that have parties at their house to control the drinking? I don't have a feeling one way or the other and times have changed. Collective Mind I have a feeling someone has navigated these waters ahead.
Should we be those kind of parents that have parties at their house to control the drinking? I don't have a feeling one way or the other and times have changed. Collective Mind I have a feeling someone has navigated these waters ahead.
Do not host underage drinking parties at your house. This opens you up to a huge number of liabilities and just generally, seems outrageously irresponsible. In contemporary US culture, fifteen is young to be getting into drinking.
It's good that your kid is communicative with you about this stuff! An important thing to make clear to him is that no matter what, he must never drive drunk or accept a ride from a person who has been drinking, and that he should always feel that he can ask you for a sober ride home.
posted by cakelite at 2:12 PM on April 23, 2018 [28 favorites]
It's good that your kid is communicative with you about this stuff! An important thing to make clear to him is that no matter what, he must never drive drunk or accept a ride from a person who has been drinking, and that he should always feel that he can ask you for a sober ride home.
posted by cakelite at 2:12 PM on April 23, 2018 [28 favorites]
I stole liquor from my parents and got drunk irresponsibly when I was younger than your son (at 14 I basically abandoned a son of my parents friends who was even more wasted than I was - albeit I abandoned him with a few folks I knew). My life has, thus far, turned out mostly okay.
With that said, I do think that incident had a positive effect in the long term, as it provided an opportunity for my parents to stress responsibility over the appearance of compliance - they knew id be out doing stupid shit but didn't want me to ever make it even stupider because I was trying to please them(basically this eventually turned into a blanket acceptance that I would stay out all night and figure out where to crash and come home safely/sober in the am).
I don't think you should host the parties, and im not sure you'd even be able to control the drinking if you did. It might make sense for you to give him some moderate amount of booze to consume in your presence just so he has some baseline for what the effects feel like - and an understanding of how long those effects take to set in. The two biggest gifts you could give him as someone about to enter the world of teen drinking are your unequivocal willingness to extract him from uncomfortable/dangerous situations without judging him or lecturing him (in that moment) on how he got into them, and a sense that he should be drinking or doing whatever it is he is doing because he wants to and is curious about/enjoying the effects, and not because hes being pressured into doing something (or more of something) than he wants because his idiot friends are (see point number one, above.)
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:12 PM on April 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
With that said, I do think that incident had a positive effect in the long term, as it provided an opportunity for my parents to stress responsibility over the appearance of compliance - they knew id be out doing stupid shit but didn't want me to ever make it even stupider because I was trying to please them(basically this eventually turned into a blanket acceptance that I would stay out all night and figure out where to crash and come home safely/sober in the am).
I don't think you should host the parties, and im not sure you'd even be able to control the drinking if you did. It might make sense for you to give him some moderate amount of booze to consume in your presence just so he has some baseline for what the effects feel like - and an understanding of how long those effects take to set in. The two biggest gifts you could give him as someone about to enter the world of teen drinking are your unequivocal willingness to extract him from uncomfortable/dangerous situations without judging him or lecturing him (in that moment) on how he got into them, and a sense that he should be drinking or doing whatever it is he is doing because he wants to and is curious about/enjoying the effects, and not because hes being pressured into doing something (or more of something) than he wants because his idiot friends are (see point number one, above.)
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:12 PM on April 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
You are going to get a tonne of anecdotal evidence in this thread telling you its fine. I urge you to ignore it and look at the data.
Alcohol use during early adolescence is a major risk factor for later alcohol abuse and dependence (Hingson & Zha, 2009). Alcohol can also have short-term consequences for adolescents such as injury, violence, self-harm and risky sexual behaviour (Hall et al., 2016). Excessive drinking may also have lasting effects on adolescent brain development (Jacobus & Tapert, 2013).
Youth who start drinking before age 15 years are six times more likely to develop alcohol dependence or abuse later in life than those who begin drinking at or after age 21 years.
I started drinking around that age, like many people. Indeed I probably drank more before I was twenty than the seventeen years after. And like many people who did I have turned out fine. But the science is super clear, the earlier you start drinking the more likely you are to have problems with alcohol later in life.
This is of course in addition to the effects of binge drinking on developing brains, the poor risk assessment of developing brains and the dangers it exposes teenagers to. Don't do it.
posted by smoke at 2:13 PM on April 23, 2018 [39 favorites]
Alcohol use during early adolescence is a major risk factor for later alcohol abuse and dependence (Hingson & Zha, 2009). Alcohol can also have short-term consequences for adolescents such as injury, violence, self-harm and risky sexual behaviour (Hall et al., 2016). Excessive drinking may also have lasting effects on adolescent brain development (Jacobus & Tapert, 2013).
Youth who start drinking before age 15 years are six times more likely to develop alcohol dependence or abuse later in life than those who begin drinking at or after age 21 years.
I started drinking around that age, like many people. Indeed I probably drank more before I was twenty than the seventeen years after. And like many people who did I have turned out fine. But the science is super clear, the earlier you start drinking the more likely you are to have problems with alcohol later in life.
This is of course in addition to the effects of binge drinking on developing brains, the poor risk assessment of developing brains and the dangers it exposes teenagers to. Don't do it.
posted by smoke at 2:13 PM on April 23, 2018 [39 favorites]
I drank a lot as a teen. I started at 13 and didn't ever talk to my parents about it. Multiple times I did things that could have easily killed me and/or several friends/strangers at a time.
I think if my parents had talked to me honestly and openly about things I probably would have made different decisions. I know for a fact that a lot of the stuff that was supposed to scare me away from drugs and alcohol actually had the opposite effects and also reinforced my belief that grown ups were stupid. So I think you are ahead of the game since your kid talked to you about it first.
I would also say that kids that age probably aren't ready to make good decisions. 15 year olds who aren't drunk already make dumb decisions, why would drinking help? On the other hand, if a teenager wants to do a thing, they will probably find a way to do it regardless of what you do or say to stop them.
So from my perspective as a problem drinking teenager, (and with no experience as a parent of teenagers or any sort of professional experience with this), I would say talk to your kid about this, a lot. Really dig into it, make sure they understand their own reasons for wanting to drink, what the consequences could be, and so on. Help them do their own cost benefit analysis about it.
I can't say "let them make their own decisions about doing something dangerous that might kill them or alter their life forever" but the reality is, they are going to make their own decisions regardless of what you say. The best you can do is to try to equip them to come to the right decision on their own.
posted by natteringnabob at 2:21 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
I think if my parents had talked to me honestly and openly about things I probably would have made different decisions. I know for a fact that a lot of the stuff that was supposed to scare me away from drugs and alcohol actually had the opposite effects and also reinforced my belief that grown ups were stupid. So I think you are ahead of the game since your kid talked to you about it first.
I would also say that kids that age probably aren't ready to make good decisions. 15 year olds who aren't drunk already make dumb decisions, why would drinking help? On the other hand, if a teenager wants to do a thing, they will probably find a way to do it regardless of what you do or say to stop them.
So from my perspective as a problem drinking teenager, (and with no experience as a parent of teenagers or any sort of professional experience with this), I would say talk to your kid about this, a lot. Really dig into it, make sure they understand their own reasons for wanting to drink, what the consequences could be, and so on. Help them do their own cost benefit analysis about it.
I can't say "let them make their own decisions about doing something dangerous that might kill them or alter their life forever" but the reality is, they are going to make their own decisions regardless of what you say. The best you can do is to try to equip them to come to the right decision on their own.
posted by natteringnabob at 2:21 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
I would not be letting my underage child attend a party where there is drinking, myself. And hosting a party where minors are served alcohol is a very, very bad idea.
posted by sarcasticah at 2:21 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by sarcasticah at 2:21 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
Of course your 15 year old wants to try drinking. I mean, he’s 15. Drinking with other 15 year olds is not going to be a cool environment to learn moderation. They just don’t have great impulse control yet and in groups it’s worse.
posted by OrangeVelour at 2:22 PM on April 23, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by OrangeVelour at 2:22 PM on April 23, 2018 [12 favorites]
Nope!
Do not let him go to this specific party. Consider carefully whether he can go to other parties with the same people. Call the parents of the kids holding the party and try to brainstorm a solution, because there should not be drinking at this age unless it's "wine with dinner with parents sometimes."
Make a pact that he won't get in a car with anyone who's been drinking and he won't drive drunk, and swear that if he calls you at any time because he doesn't have a sober ride, you'll come get him. Make sure that you hold up your end of the bargain-- come get him at any time if he doesn't have a sober ride. Don't get him in trouble for asking for help.
He needs your help to be safe-- to have an out if he doesn't want to drink or be around people drinking, and to have a way to mitigate bad decisions. He doesn't need to be drinking.
posted by blnkfrnk at 2:23 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
Do not let him go to this specific party. Consider carefully whether he can go to other parties with the same people. Call the parents of the kids holding the party and try to brainstorm a solution, because there should not be drinking at this age unless it's "wine with dinner with parents sometimes."
Make a pact that he won't get in a car with anyone who's been drinking and he won't drive drunk, and swear that if he calls you at any time because he doesn't have a sober ride, you'll come get him. Make sure that you hold up your end of the bargain-- come get him at any time if he doesn't have a sober ride. Don't get him in trouble for asking for help.
He needs your help to be safe-- to have an out if he doesn't want to drink or be around people drinking, and to have a way to mitigate bad decisions. He doesn't need to be drinking.
posted by blnkfrnk at 2:23 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
Open a dialogue and let him convince himself to skip this party and future underage drinking, in general.
This is against the law in most jurisdictions for very very good reasons, and uh, you might think about the larger community you guys belong to and how to navigate situations like this.
posted by jbenben at 2:28 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is against the law in most jurisdictions for very very good reasons, and uh, you might think about the larger community you guys belong to and how to navigate situations like this.
posted by jbenben at 2:28 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
If I had told my parents that I was going to a drinking party at 15, it would have been in the unspoken hope that they would forbid either the party or the drinking so that I had a good excuse in front of my friends. Just something to think about before you come back with "Of course you can have a couple beers."
posted by Snarl Furillo at 2:29 PM on April 23, 2018 [32 favorites]
posted by Snarl Furillo at 2:29 PM on April 23, 2018 [32 favorites]
You know your kid. You know whether he has good judgment, though you may want to explain to him that after a few drinks, it's easy to feel like more is better, and it's not going to be. It seems to me forbidding this outright may make it more alluring, and unless you're the ultimate helicopter parent, it's going to happen if it's going to happen. There is some risk in allowing this. There is some risk in letting him out the door every day. (My bias: protective parents, took a long time to feel like I had gotten past the problems inherent to being sheltered.)
posted by Smearcase at 2:29 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Smearcase at 2:29 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
I would not be letting my underage child attend a party where there is drinking, myself. And hosting a party where minors are served alcohol is a very, very bad idea.
I second that motion. But as an alternative, consider this: My parents said to me, and I said to my kids, at around age 15 or 16: "Look, you are going to run into these situations where alcohol is available. Those are not good situations in which to learn about alcohol. We would prefer that you learn about alcohol right here at home with us. So when you're interested, let us know, and we'll introduce you to it, starting with wine and beer. Not to get drunk, but to have a taste, learn about how it's made, learn about the nuances of flavor, etc. And particularly, to experience wine and beer in a normal, adult social setting, and not at unsupervised teen parties."
As it turns out, this approach has worked well for two generations. We may all have over-imbided on occasion during our teen years, but we grew up learning to appreciate alcoholic beverages and not to abuse them.
posted by beagle at 2:32 PM on April 23, 2018 [62 favorites]
I second that motion. But as an alternative, consider this: My parents said to me, and I said to my kids, at around age 15 or 16: "Look, you are going to run into these situations where alcohol is available. Those are not good situations in which to learn about alcohol. We would prefer that you learn about alcohol right here at home with us. So when you're interested, let us know, and we'll introduce you to it, starting with wine and beer. Not to get drunk, but to have a taste, learn about how it's made, learn about the nuances of flavor, etc. And particularly, to experience wine and beer in a normal, adult social setting, and not at unsupervised teen parties."
As it turns out, this approach has worked well for two generations. We may all have over-imbided on occasion during our teen years, but we grew up learning to appreciate alcoholic beverages and not to abuse them.
posted by beagle at 2:32 PM on April 23, 2018 [62 favorites]
I'm not sure if it is just cultural or what but as an Australian teen, I was exposed to pretty regular drinking parties and I am now pretty much a teetotaler.
Things my parents did when they knew I was going to a drinking party. They drove me & picked me up so there was no chance at all of drunk driving. I was not allowed to leave the location of the party. I could call them anytime I wanted, no matter what had happened & be picked up without them making a scene. In various situations with both my brother & I they kept their word. Up to & including even once we were of legal age, being willing to come & pick us up from anywhere day or night so we didn't get in a car with a drink driver or drive drunk.
As I said became pretty much a teetotaler, my brother ended up having a run in with meth for a couple of years but is now clean. Because of the trust we built up with our parents during our teen year experiments with alcohol, my brother was willing to maintain contact with my mother even at his worst drug use & reached out to her for help as soon as he wanted to get clean. I don't know if that thread of contact would have held if he didn't trust her not to judge him when he was at his worst. (Lord knows I judged the hell out of him).
What I am saying here, is right now your son is showing a great deal of open communication. Coming down hard isn't going to stop him drinking at parties, it's going to stop him telling you he's drinking at parties.
posted by wwax at 2:35 PM on April 23, 2018 [32 favorites]
Things my parents did when they knew I was going to a drinking party. They drove me & picked me up so there was no chance at all of drunk driving. I was not allowed to leave the location of the party. I could call them anytime I wanted, no matter what had happened & be picked up without them making a scene. In various situations with both my brother & I they kept their word. Up to & including even once we were of legal age, being willing to come & pick us up from anywhere day or night so we didn't get in a car with a drink driver or drive drunk.
As I said became pretty much a teetotaler, my brother ended up having a run in with meth for a couple of years but is now clean. Because of the trust we built up with our parents during our teen year experiments with alcohol, my brother was willing to maintain contact with my mother even at his worst drug use & reached out to her for help as soon as he wanted to get clean. I don't know if that thread of contact would have held if he didn't trust her not to judge him when he was at his worst. (Lord knows I judged the hell out of him).
What I am saying here, is right now your son is showing a great deal of open communication. Coming down hard isn't going to stop him drinking at parties, it's going to stop him telling you he's drinking at parties.
posted by wwax at 2:35 PM on April 23, 2018 [32 favorites]
>Of course your 15 year old wants to try drinking. I mean, he’s 15.
Anecdotally, I didn't want to try drinking when I was fifteen, and in fact I still don't. There's nothing inevitable about it and you're not missing anything if you skip it. "Aw, c'mon, EVERYBODY does it" is just more peer pressure. It's obviously a bad idea and it's okay to oppose it.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:36 PM on April 23, 2018 [11 favorites]
Anecdotally, I didn't want to try drinking when I was fifteen, and in fact I still don't. There's nothing inevitable about it and you're not missing anything if you skip it. "Aw, c'mon, EVERYBODY does it" is just more peer pressure. It's obviously a bad idea and it's okay to oppose it.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:36 PM on April 23, 2018 [11 favorites]
15 is too young.
I would never advocate underage drinking and I would not "supervise" it or allow minors to drink in my house.
Early Drinking Linked to Higher Lifetime Alcoholism Risk
I have two teenagers. My goal and my philosophy is to keep them away from drugs and alcohol as long as possible. Maybe they will never be drinkers. I'm not militant and I'm not always preaching, but they are aware that their parents think it's a wonderful thing to be sober and healthy. Alcohol is not necessary to live a fun life. There are better and healthier ways to spend your time.
posted by loveandhappiness at 2:39 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
I would never advocate underage drinking and I would not "supervise" it or allow minors to drink in my house.
Early Drinking Linked to Higher Lifetime Alcoholism Risk
I have two teenagers. My goal and my philosophy is to keep them away from drugs and alcohol as long as possible. Maybe they will never be drinkers. I'm not militant and I'm not always preaching, but they are aware that their parents think it's a wonderful thing to be sober and healthy. Alcohol is not necessary to live a fun life. There are better and healthier ways to spend your time.
posted by loveandhappiness at 2:39 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
As a parent, I don't give a crap what you do with your own kids, but if you help my children lie to me, I will make you pay for it every way I can think of. Don't host parties where you're giving other people's kids access to alcohol.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:42 PM on April 23, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:42 PM on April 23, 2018 [16 favorites]
CAVEAT: I do not have children, so, grain of salt.
That said, I started drinking at parties at about 15, and did not do so with the blessing of my dad (I would say "without the knowledge" because I snuck out like a lot of teens did/do, but as I get older I realize there's no way he didn't know I was sneaking out, so). The one devil's-advocate counterpoint I will give to the excellent advice in this thread is that the more you stigmatize or demonize anything to a teenager, the more they'll want to do it. And the more they'll do it in a way that you might not want to see him do.
Basically, just be honest with your kid when you talk to him about going to parties with alcohol (tell him both your and your wife's perspectives, let him ask you questions and guide the discussion if he wants), but try to be non-judgmental about the fact that he'll be at those parties. Kids gonna kid, after all. And I, like many teenage binge drinkers, turned out to be perfectly fine, job-holding, house-owning adults - and I still drink socially, but not to excess.
Also, ensure that he knows he can call you if he's had too much to drink at a party and that you'll come get him, no matter what, with no judgment, rather than driving himself or getting in a car with a kid that has been drinking (or give him the name/number of a cab company, or $20 in Uber/Lyft credit or something).
posted by pdb at 2:46 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
That said, I started drinking at parties at about 15, and did not do so with the blessing of my dad (I would say "without the knowledge" because I snuck out like a lot of teens did/do, but as I get older I realize there's no way he didn't know I was sneaking out, so). The one devil's-advocate counterpoint I will give to the excellent advice in this thread is that the more you stigmatize or demonize anything to a teenager, the more they'll want to do it. And the more they'll do it in a way that you might not want to see him do.
Basically, just be honest with your kid when you talk to him about going to parties with alcohol (tell him both your and your wife's perspectives, let him ask you questions and guide the discussion if he wants), but try to be non-judgmental about the fact that he'll be at those parties. Kids gonna kid, after all. And I, like many teenage binge drinkers, turned out to be perfectly fine, job-holding, house-owning adults - and I still drink socially, but not to excess.
Also, ensure that he knows he can call you if he's had too much to drink at a party and that you'll come get him, no matter what, with no judgment, rather than driving himself or getting in a car with a kid that has been drinking (or give him the name/number of a cab company, or $20 in Uber/Lyft credit or something).
posted by pdb at 2:46 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
"Should we be those kind of parents that have parties at their house to control the drinking?"
Absolutely not. In my state (and 27 others) you can be criminally charged for this, under what's usually called a "social host" law, and they've been getting more serious about charging and prosecuting parents who host teen drinking parties, and pretty aggressive about demanding jail time rather than fines, to drive the point home.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:49 PM on April 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
Absolutely not. In my state (and 27 others) you can be criminally charged for this, under what's usually called a "social host" law, and they've been getting more serious about charging and prosecuting parents who host teen drinking parties, and pretty aggressive about demanding jail time rather than fines, to drive the point home.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:49 PM on April 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
definitely don't host parties where you give 15 year olds booze, as others have said. (If your kid was, like, a junior in college and just slightly underage, with similarly 20ish year old friends, my thoughts on that might be a little different.)
Personally I think that if your kid is willing to tell you they're a) going to a party and b) there will be booze at the party, they probably want you to tell them no. BUT, I'm going to differ from some of the answers above and say, you should not FORBID them to go. You should just say, they don't have to go, and don't have to drink if they go. And let them know they can make you the bad guy if they want to bail without losing face.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:49 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
Personally I think that if your kid is willing to tell you they're a) going to a party and b) there will be booze at the party, they probably want you to tell them no. BUT, I'm going to differ from some of the answers above and say, you should not FORBID them to go. You should just say, they don't have to go, and don't have to drink if they go. And let them know they can make you the bad guy if they want to bail without losing face.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:49 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
Anecdotal: It's really positive that your son is communicating with you openly about these things. My family were very open with me about drinking and let me try sips of their drinks as a child; it was never a taboo or something I felt worried about bringing up with them. But at the same time, the expectation was that I would talk openly to them about any drinking I did, once I was of age.
I have grown up not much of a drinker, simply because it never had the glamour of the forbidden around it. On the contrary, as something that grown-ups did, it seemed kind of lame (everyone knew that grown-ups were lame). This was in stark contrast to my peers from more conservative families where drinking was forbidden. Many of them went on to develop extremely unhealthy relationships with alcohol.
Should we be those kind of parents that have parties at their house to control the drinking?
This seems like asking for trouble to me. Sure, maybe your kid can do supervised drinking at your house, but certainly not other people's children.
posted by Ziggy500 at 2:51 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
I have grown up not much of a drinker, simply because it never had the glamour of the forbidden around it. On the contrary, as something that grown-ups did, it seemed kind of lame (everyone knew that grown-ups were lame). This was in stark contrast to my peers from more conservative families where drinking was forbidden. Many of them went on to develop extremely unhealthy relationships with alcohol.
Should we be those kind of parents that have parties at their house to control the drinking?
This seems like asking for trouble to me. Sure, maybe your kid can do supervised drinking at your house, but certainly not other people's children.
posted by Ziggy500 at 2:51 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
My parents were heavily, heavily against underage drinking. I drank as a teen, they just didn't know. My little sister drank as a teen, they didn't know. I'm pretty sure that telling your kid that he is absolutely forbidden to drink and you think that he can still be cool and have fun without it is basically a paraphrasing of "Don't let me ever find out about your drinking because I have no interest in your social scene." Almost all of the long-term negative effects (and many of the short-term negatives) are associated with binge drinking, so I'd focus on telling him that you expect he'll avoid drinking to excess, and make sure that he can call you, judgment free, to get him out of a situation he's uncomfortable with.
Because of the legal risks mentioned above, I wouldn't host anything.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 2:53 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Because of the legal risks mentioned above, I wouldn't host anything.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 2:53 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Where are they getting the alcohol at the party?
-- Older kids? Who? Why are these older kids hanging out with them? What's the motive?
--Adults? Who? If it's someone's parents, bad enough, but if it's other adults, why are they hanging out with kids? What's the idea here because it's super illegal?
-- Peers who look older? In which case, do their parents know? Maybe they should?
A teenage drinking party just raises a lot of questions about who is lying and who is unsafe and who is making bad decisions and who is a predator. It's a major red flag to me that the people your kid is hanging out with 1) don't respect the law and 2) might have a reason to want to hang out with drunk teenagers.
posted by blnkfrnk at 2:53 PM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
-- Older kids? Who? Why are these older kids hanging out with them? What's the motive?
--Adults? Who? If it's someone's parents, bad enough, but if it's other adults, why are they hanging out with kids? What's the idea here because it's super illegal?
-- Peers who look older? In which case, do their parents know? Maybe they should?
A teenage drinking party just raises a lot of questions about who is lying and who is unsafe and who is making bad decisions and who is a predator. It's a major red flag to me that the people your kid is hanging out with 1) don't respect the law and 2) might have a reason to want to hang out with drunk teenagers.
posted by blnkfrnk at 2:53 PM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Don't host teen drinking parties, for sure. That's a whole different thing than letting them try wine with dinner, of course.
Be honest with your kid about drinking, its risks, and its appeal - it's no good pretending there's no fun in drinking. Be real about the risks, not only of drunk driving but of alcohol poisoning and of uninhibited behavior, ranging from embarrassment to violence. Help them figure out if they really do want to go to this party or to skip it. Make sure they know they can always count on you: for a ride, or for an excuse not to partake, to leave, whatever.
If they really do want to go, give them realistic guidelines depending on their size. Maybe no more than one drink per hour; and no more than four total. Don't leave drinks unattended. Stick to beers rather than mixed drinks; if it's mixed, they should make it themselves. They should have their phone at all times, call home for a ride if they feel at all unwell, and you'll be picking them up at 12 (or whatever is appropriate.) And tell them to keep an eye on their friends.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:58 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Be honest with your kid about drinking, its risks, and its appeal - it's no good pretending there's no fun in drinking. Be real about the risks, not only of drunk driving but of alcohol poisoning and of uninhibited behavior, ranging from embarrassment to violence. Help them figure out if they really do want to go to this party or to skip it. Make sure they know they can always count on you: for a ride, or for an excuse not to partake, to leave, whatever.
If they really do want to go, give them realistic guidelines depending on their size. Maybe no more than one drink per hour; and no more than four total. Don't leave drinks unattended. Stick to beers rather than mixed drinks; if it's mixed, they should make it themselves. They should have their phone at all times, call home for a ride if they feel at all unwell, and you'll be picking them up at 12 (or whatever is appropriate.) And tell them to keep an eye on their friends.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:58 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
15 is fairly young for drinking in the US- sure, some kids do but a lot don't drink until college. I would be less concerned if he were 17 or 18 but the data Smoke cites are very clear in that the younger someone starts drinking, the higher risk of developing problems related to alcohol use. It's cool that your kid is open with you about this and part of me thinks that he wants you to say no-that's he's not entirely comfortable with this party. Echoing what others said about not hosting an underage drinking party at your house- that could open you up to an immeasurable amount of liability and heartache is anything went wrong.
posted by emd3737 at 3:15 PM on April 23, 2018
posted by emd3737 at 3:15 PM on April 23, 2018
Don't commit felonies in the hope that you can keep your kid from becoming an alcoholic.
I support the votes for you know your kid, and whether it's best to say "you're going to have access to booze and we know we can't stop you from trying it, but please don't experiment in places where other people are being stupid (and if teenagers are drinking, someone is being stupid and it's not just the teens)" or "no, you can't go to that party, because it's not safe for you."
My mom was a reformed alcoholic (I have no memory of her drinking, just lots of AA meetings hosted at the house), and she made it clear to me, from the time I was an early teen: Never ever EVER get in a car with a driver who's been drinking; I don't care where you are or what time it is, CALL ME and I will pick you up or send someone to pick you up.
And this was repeated enough that I know that even now, nearing 50 years old and having not spoken to her in nearly a decade (we are not on good terms), living in a different state, I could call her at 3 AM and say, "I'm at a place and the only people available to drive me home are drunk," and she would go find a cousin or former co-worker who lived in the county I'm stuck in, and have them pick me up. (Well, these days, would probably just call an Uber for me. But you get the idea - the support for "do not get in car with tipsy driver" was solid enough that I knew it really didn't matter what other rules I'd broken.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:16 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
I support the votes for you know your kid, and whether it's best to say "you're going to have access to booze and we know we can't stop you from trying it, but please don't experiment in places where other people are being stupid (and if teenagers are drinking, someone is being stupid and it's not just the teens)" or "no, you can't go to that party, because it's not safe for you."
My mom was a reformed alcoholic (I have no memory of her drinking, just lots of AA meetings hosted at the house), and she made it clear to me, from the time I was an early teen: Never ever EVER get in a car with a driver who's been drinking; I don't care where you are or what time it is, CALL ME and I will pick you up or send someone to pick you up.
And this was repeated enough that I know that even now, nearing 50 years old and having not spoken to her in nearly a decade (we are not on good terms), living in a different state, I could call her at 3 AM and say, "I'm at a place and the only people available to drive me home are drunk," and she would go find a cousin or former co-worker who lived in the county I'm stuck in, and have them pick me up. (Well, these days, would probably just call an Uber for me. But you get the idea - the support for "do not get in car with tipsy driver" was solid enough that I knew it really didn't matter what other rules I'd broken.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:16 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Should we be those kind of parents that have parties at their house to control the drinking?
others have commented as to why this is a bad idea legally. Counter to that, here's a relevant anecdote that I've shared here before.
Germany, 1995. I'm attending a barbecue at a friend's parents place, lots of extended family, a nice big yard. The adults were hanging out close to the house, drinking cocktails or whatever. Meanwhile, over a little knoll (out of sight but not earshot), the teenagers had their own keg of beer. Some weren't drinking at all, some were. A few were getting drunk. Little kids were hanging around laughing at him. Occasionally, an uncle or aunt would wander over and give them a little schooling -- how to keep track of your drinks, making fun of the drunker kids, etc.
That's how you do it. Before they're on their own. Before they get their driver's licenses. How we do it here in the Americas is just plain stupid.
posted by philip-random at 3:20 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
others have commented as to why this is a bad idea legally. Counter to that, here's a relevant anecdote that I've shared here before.
Germany, 1995. I'm attending a barbecue at a friend's parents place, lots of extended family, a nice big yard. The adults were hanging out close to the house, drinking cocktails or whatever. Meanwhile, over a little knoll (out of sight but not earshot), the teenagers had their own keg of beer. Some weren't drinking at all, some were. A few were getting drunk. Little kids were hanging around laughing at him. Occasionally, an uncle or aunt would wander over and give them a little schooling -- how to keep track of your drinks, making fun of the drunker kids, etc.
That's how you do it. Before they're on their own. Before they get their driver's licenses. How we do it here in the Americas is just plain stupid.
posted by philip-random at 3:20 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
This is a cultural thing as much as anything else. I'm in the UK where legal age to buy alcohol is 18, and I wouldn't blink an eye at 16 or 17 year olds in their last year or two drinking at parties. I'd be disapproving of a 15 year old drinking excessively and say they were too young but it wouldn't surprise me.
I think you need to know your specific kid. You want to minimise harm, from alcohol, from the police, from doing something stupider because they were afraid of getting in trouble. With some kids telling them they can't go would just see them complaining and not going, others would sneak out and get into more trouble. With some kids telling them they can drink supervised by you would be sensible and others it would be encouragement to drink.
And absolutely never actually risk getting yourself in trouble with the law just to facilitate underage drinking. They will be legal drinking age themselves soon enough, then they can buy you a beer.
posted by plonkee at 3:26 PM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
I think you need to know your specific kid. You want to minimise harm, from alcohol, from the police, from doing something stupider because they were afraid of getting in trouble. With some kids telling them they can't go would just see them complaining and not going, others would sneak out and get into more trouble. With some kids telling them they can drink supervised by you would be sensible and others it would be encouragement to drink.
And absolutely never actually risk getting yourself in trouble with the law just to facilitate underage drinking. They will be legal drinking age themselves soon enough, then they can buy you a beer.
posted by plonkee at 3:26 PM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Where I live, drinking at 15 is legal, though not socially accepted. So we are not dealing with the legal aspects of this. We have never hosted a party for under-18s with alcohol, and never would. But we have made sure from a very early age that not only our own kids, but also their friends could call us in any situation without fear. This has saved a life once, so I recommend it.
When my eldest was fifteen, we had a parents' meeting about the kids' use of alcohol. One of the other parents whispered to me that the most restrictive parents had the most extreme kids. I really don't know how to parse this other than that for us, it has made sense and has had good results to be realistic about teens experimenting, to not punish, but point out the issues with alcohol, and not least to be 100% there when the teens needed help.
One of my siblings is stricter with her kids and has both good and bad results and another is looser and has both good and bad results.
posted by mumimor at 3:28 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
When my eldest was fifteen, we had a parents' meeting about the kids' use of alcohol. One of the other parents whispered to me that the most restrictive parents had the most extreme kids. I really don't know how to parse this other than that for us, it has made sense and has had good results to be realistic about teens experimenting, to not punish, but point out the issues with alcohol, and not least to be 100% there when the teens needed help.
One of my siblings is stricter with her kids and has both good and bad results and another is looser and has both good and bad results.
posted by mumimor at 3:28 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
What is the upside to a 15 year old drinking? All I'm hearing here are blanket generalizations that everyone does it and he'll do it anyway. Those are just excuses for not setting boundaries on this. Yeah, maybe he would drink anyway but that doesn't mean you should endorse it. Especially if you're in the US where this isn't even legal. You can let your kid know that something isn't a great idea and that you disapprove without being strict and controlling and driving them to drink.
posted by Polychrome at 3:39 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Polychrome at 3:39 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
In deciding about this, I would ask you to consider how it is likely to intersect with something else teens that age may be wanting to experiment with, that is, sex. Alcohol, and especially binge drinking, is a big factor in sexual assaults in that age group. I'm not trying to say anything personally about your kid, but young men with compromised judgments can do things that straight-up destroy lives: both other people's, and (deservedly) their own. Even consensual sex (where neither party is legally drunk) amongst teens with diminished inhibitions due to drinking can have huge consequences which an American fifteen-year-old is categorically incapable of coping with. How confident are you that your kid won't stumble off into a back room with another fifteen-year-old?
posted by praemunire at 3:41 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 3:41 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
Not at a party, not at 15. Certainly not with your permission. Yes, kids will sneak around and drink, your son may too. But what kind of parents are allowing this party? Do you know these people? Will anyone be driving to or from the party after drinking? Older kids with driver's licenses may be there. Will any adults be there to supervise? Or are they out of town for the weekend and the kids got this great idea to have a drinking party and invite everyone? What could possibly go wrong?
Your son may get mad if you say no, but he will have plenty of years to drink. He does not need to start now and you do not have to approve of him doing it.
posted by mermayd at 3:58 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Your son may get mad if you say no, but he will have plenty of years to drink. He does not need to start now and you do not have to approve of him doing it.
posted by mermayd at 3:58 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses...Mrs. ashtray elvis here, for the record, we will not have parties at our house. We know the legal age of drinking, but are realistic about teenagers and the allure of drinking and fitting in. 15 is way to early. At this juncture, the challenge for us is that our son has been honest with us, and we would like that to continue most especially during the next few years. My fear is if we say 'no party and no drinking' he won't be honest with us again. So now we need thoughts/advice on navigating these waters. What's the approach? Have a conversation with him explaining that we will not condone drinking, the terrible effects/consequences of teenage drinking and hope he figures it out?
posted by ashtray elvis at 4:00 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by ashtray elvis at 4:00 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Do you know any slightly older kids who've maybe gotten into some trouble from drinking who could talk to him? I picked up the phone once when my older brother was calling from jail after begin arrested for drunk driving and that was the nail in the coffin for underage drinking for me.
I also wonder if reading articles about kids dying from alcohol would have any effect on him. Reading this article recently reallllllly made me glad I didn't spend much (/any) time drinking or partying in undergrad.
posted by raspberrE at 4:08 PM on April 23, 2018
I also wonder if reading articles about kids dying from alcohol would have any effect on him. Reading this article recently reallllllly made me glad I didn't spend much (/any) time drinking or partying in undergrad.
posted by raspberrE at 4:08 PM on April 23, 2018
For all the folks saying, 'I turned out all right,' that's just not proof of much. For those that didn't turn out all right, they aren't here to tell the tale. And what about all your friends and acquaintances back in the day? Not all those kids were all right. I drank as a kid. I hung out with kids who drank and did drugs (various sorts). I also had strict parents, one of whom was an alcoholic! I also turned out all right and I enjoy drinking regularly as an adult. I was lucky enough to finish my high school years living in Europe where kids younger than 21 were allowed to drink and, at least during that time and place, you couldn't be an idiot kid in a pub, you had to behave yourself. Though there was problematic, hidden drinking as well, for the most part, I think I got to experiment in a way that was measured and appropriate for that age.
However, I saw plenty of very problematic things and, due to the strictness of my parents, was put in situations which it would have been way better if they could have been a resource to help me get out of them. Unbeknownst to them, though, I was often the kid in the group that recognized problematic situations before they got out of control and steered my friend group out or away from them. I also kept my distance from idiots. That's the kind of thing you want your kid doing.
What you want is for your kid to follow one rule: don't be a fool. Then outline what is and isn't being a fool. The one thing my mom did right is she made it clear that I could use them as an excuse for things that I didn't want to do but I wanted to put on a show of asking. That included once, being asked to stay overnight with a friend whose father gave me the creeps. My mom didn't know why I mouthed to her, "Say 'no'...." when my friend was calling to invite me over. And she didn't ask why I asked her to do that. I would have lied anyway.
And for all their strictness, it's important to know what the family rules and boundaries are which I definitely knew. So, you gotta figure out what you are and are not willing to do but get out in front of it. I think a policy of always coming to pick them up if they need you is a good one. As is no influenced driving! As is having a required curfew or check-in or whatever. Make there be consequences for not following the house rules. Just like when they are little, kids do better with boundaries as long as they are reasonable.
posted by amanda at 4:36 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
However, I saw plenty of very problematic things and, due to the strictness of my parents, was put in situations which it would have been way better if they could have been a resource to help me get out of them. Unbeknownst to them, though, I was often the kid in the group that recognized problematic situations before they got out of control and steered my friend group out or away from them. I also kept my distance from idiots. That's the kind of thing you want your kid doing.
What you want is for your kid to follow one rule: don't be a fool. Then outline what is and isn't being a fool. The one thing my mom did right is she made it clear that I could use them as an excuse for things that I didn't want to do but I wanted to put on a show of asking. That included once, being asked to stay overnight with a friend whose father gave me the creeps. My mom didn't know why I mouthed to her, "Say 'no'...." when my friend was calling to invite me over. And she didn't ask why I asked her to do that. I would have lied anyway.
And for all their strictness, it's important to know what the family rules and boundaries are which I definitely knew. So, you gotta figure out what you are and are not willing to do but get out in front of it. I think a policy of always coming to pick them up if they need you is a good one. As is no influenced driving! As is having a required curfew or check-in or whatever. Make there be consequences for not following the house rules. Just like when they are little, kids do better with boundaries as long as they are reasonable.
posted by amanda at 4:36 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
I guess what we said to our kids was:
We know that your peers will experiment with drinking, and that you will be tempted to participate. As far as we know, from our own experiments and from what we saw at your age, that was no fun at all. We do get that no one can learn from other people's experience, but we really can't say anything positive about getting drunk at 15.
That said: if you, or anyone among your friends get sick from drinking, you need to call us right away. We will not judge anyone, and we will be there ASAP. Never hesitate to call, ever.
IMO, our message was clearly that this is dangerous and unhealthy but if you do it and need help we will provide it, and we did.
In one case I had to confront a parent who was much stricter than me, because her child would have been at serious risk if she continued her practice of denial, and obviously because I couldn't lie about her child.
My own kids have been drunk at times, and regretted it because they were embarrassed, but never been in situations where they were at danger for themselves or others.
BTW, I wasn't exaggerating when I noted that we found a kid near death from alcohol poisoning because our daughter called. It is the scariest thing I've ever experienced. She was totally unconscious, and the responders said that if we hadn't called, she would have died. To me our lesson was that because the teens felt safe calling us, their friend lived. For the teens the lesson was that alcohol is deadly.
posted by mumimor at 4:49 PM on April 23, 2018 [11 favorites]
We know that your peers will experiment with drinking, and that you will be tempted to participate. As far as we know, from our own experiments and from what we saw at your age, that was no fun at all. We do get that no one can learn from other people's experience, but we really can't say anything positive about getting drunk at 15.
That said: if you, or anyone among your friends get sick from drinking, you need to call us right away. We will not judge anyone, and we will be there ASAP. Never hesitate to call, ever.
IMO, our message was clearly that this is dangerous and unhealthy but if you do it and need help we will provide it, and we did.
In one case I had to confront a parent who was much stricter than me, because her child would have been at serious risk if she continued her practice of denial, and obviously because I couldn't lie about her child.
My own kids have been drunk at times, and regretted it because they were embarrassed, but never been in situations where they were at danger for themselves or others.
BTW, I wasn't exaggerating when I noted that we found a kid near death from alcohol poisoning because our daughter called. It is the scariest thing I've ever experienced. She was totally unconscious, and the responders said that if we hadn't called, she would have died. To me our lesson was that because the teens felt safe calling us, their friend lived. For the teens the lesson was that alcohol is deadly.
posted by mumimor at 4:49 PM on April 23, 2018 [11 favorites]
Is this the first time drinking has come up? My brother was pretty good about letting his kids taste stuff (generally not liking it, natch), but the real benefit to that openness was getting to have a years-long discussion about the topic in general. If this is the first time it's come up, you might have to just say your piece and let the chips fall where they may.
posted by rhizome at 5:55 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 5:55 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Anecdote about talking to teens: I didn't drink as a teen. Partly this was due to the strong anti-popularity attitude that I had at the time. But also, I think my parents handled communicating about alcohol and drugs and their risks quite well. They talked about their own experiences and those of their friends. They expressed an opinion - that they would prefer I not drink or do illegal drugs. But they didn't forbid it, they just gave me reasons and trusted me to make my own decisions. I seem to recall it feeling like they were pretty open with me about their worries, though in retrospect I'm sure there was stuff they held back. But as a kid who was pretty close with my parents, that of course influenced my behavior too. We talked about making good decisions in general, on a lot of teenage stuff, not just alcohol use. They stressed, repeatedly and clearly, that I could always call them if I found myself in an unsafe or uncomfortable situation, any time and no questions asked. And they were clearly serious about that - like, my mother was the oldest of a number of siblings and could be pretty accomplished at teasing or mild sarcasm; and my parents were relatively strict about many things when I was growing up, so there were things that I could have done that they would have been upset about and let me know of that upsetness; but I never, ever had the impression that I would have to face either of those things if I called them to help extricate me from a bad situation. They also offered, on repeated occasions, to be the fall guys if I ever needed an excuse to extricate myself from a situation I didn't want to be in but didn't feel comfortable saying so to peers for whatever reason.
So, for the how to talk to your teen advice, I'd say just be honest about the whole situation. Kids can tell when adults are being honest versus trying to manipulate them (even if with good intentions). They'll appreciate it, and it will help grow that trust and communication that you've clearly done a pretty good job instilling already!
I also first tasted alcohol at a friend's parents' house in a very controlled setting (adult seasonal party, teens got a very small glass of champagne; or offers of sips or very small samples of beer on a small number of other occasions). I didn't like the taste, like, at all (and still do not drink champagne or beer). That was useful information to have before ever finding myself in a peer party situation.
posted by eviemath at 6:11 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
So, for the how to talk to your teen advice, I'd say just be honest about the whole situation. Kids can tell when adults are being honest versus trying to manipulate them (even if with good intentions). They'll appreciate it, and it will help grow that trust and communication that you've clearly done a pretty good job instilling already!
I also first tasted alcohol at a friend's parents' house in a very controlled setting (adult seasonal party, teens got a very small glass of champagne; or offers of sips or very small samples of beer on a small number of other occasions). I didn't like the taste, like, at all (and still do not drink champagne or beer). That was useful information to have before ever finding myself in a peer party situation.
posted by eviemath at 6:11 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
(I don't know if my friend's parents had talked about that with my parents ahead of time or not. My parents didn't sound super surprised when I told them about it, but neither did they sound like they had known ahead of time? We didn't have alcohol around my house, but my parents and my friend's parents had fairly compatible parenting strategies in that sense overall, and our mothers had likely talked with each other about parenting at least a little bit, and I think all parents involved were generally on board with the idea of giving teens controlled introductions to alcohol like that. Based on observations of my friends who are parenting, mostly with kids who are not quite teens yet, good communication with other parents seems to be quite helpful in general.)
posted by eviemath at 6:17 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 6:17 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
(I guess also to add, my parents' approach to communicating with me about alcohol and drugs was a long-term strategy, not just addressing potential high school teen drinking. They started talking to me about it before it was ever an issue, and the messaging was always along the lines of, eventually you'll be an adult and navigating situations and making your own decisions about this stuff; there are good reasons to hold off on trying it until you're older and we prefer that you wait, but let's talk about responsible use now, while we're on the subject, because you'll need that information eventually.)
posted by eviemath at 6:21 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 6:21 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
I live in Texas and the laws in your state may vary but just so you're aware, allowing/encouraging your child to drink or use drugs in your presence in Texas is considered child abuse and could get you a CPS case.
posted by Saminal at 6:46 PM on April 23, 2018
posted by Saminal at 6:46 PM on April 23, 2018
I'm surprised at all the responses saying no. It's amazing that he confided in you about this...if he wants to drink, he'll drink - he may just stop telling you about it. In my opinion, the US is far too restrictive about drinking, which is why I (and my American teenage counterparts) went overboard with booze (21 shots on the 21st birthday...) whereas my friends who grew up in Europe were much more chilled about it and didn't feel the need to binge drink as soon as they got the chance.
Talk to your kid. Who is hosting, who will be there, what are the other attendees' ages, have the other attendees' tried drinking before, are they close friends or acquaintances of your kid? Ask your kid if they actually *want* to attend this party. If so, how would they feel about staying a short time and getting a ride back and forth from you (definitely talk to them about the dangers of drinking and driving). If they don't really have a burning desire to attend this party, or if you hear more about it and decide it's not a safe situation, but your kid is curious about alcohol, ask them if maybe they'd want to have a glass of wine with dinner in your home as a way to "try out" drinking in a safe environment. Have an open and honest conversation and see what they're thinking and see how you feel about the safety of the party once you learn more. If you learn more and feel like it's a bad idea, you will be able to give your kid reasons for it (rather than just saying "no").
(And yeah, as everyone else has said, do not host an underage drinking party at your home.)
posted by sunflower16 at 6:54 PM on April 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
Talk to your kid. Who is hosting, who will be there, what are the other attendees' ages, have the other attendees' tried drinking before, are they close friends or acquaintances of your kid? Ask your kid if they actually *want* to attend this party. If so, how would they feel about staying a short time and getting a ride back and forth from you (definitely talk to them about the dangers of drinking and driving). If they don't really have a burning desire to attend this party, or if you hear more about it and decide it's not a safe situation, but your kid is curious about alcohol, ask them if maybe they'd want to have a glass of wine with dinner in your home as a way to "try out" drinking in a safe environment. Have an open and honest conversation and see what they're thinking and see how you feel about the safety of the party once you learn more. If you learn more and feel like it's a bad idea, you will be able to give your kid reasons for it (rather than just saying "no").
(And yeah, as everyone else has said, do not host an underage drinking party at your home.)
posted by sunflower16 at 6:54 PM on April 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
my opinion is that a kid who doesn't have the awareness not to ask for his parents' blessing in breaking the law is not aware enough to drink responsibly. If you were the sort of people to have wine with meals or even just on holidays, I would consider it strange for you not to have been giving him age-appropriate glasses all along, as is normal. but that doesn't mean that if you don't drink yourselves, you should go out and procure alcohol just for him. he is not entitled to your blessing on this and I don't think he should get it.
but what you should do, and what you would be extremely negligent not to do, is explain to him -- more than once! more than twice! how getting drunk works. that is: you have a drink. you drink it like a human being, you don't force it all down your gullet in 10 seconds. then, you WAIT FOR IT TO HIT. it will take some time. then, and not before, you assess your drunkness level and consider having another one. the worst thing an inexperienced idiot can do is to take a shot, feel nothing, figure it's not working, and take another one. it may take a half hour or more to feel the booze set in and in that amount of time you can fuck your body up bad before you feel it. you can probably kill yourself if you're especially ignorant. it's been done.
you do not have to provide him a practicum in law-breaking or substance abuse. but go over the basics of alcohol metabolism and civilized drinking speed. tell him that if you know how to drink and have no scary alcohol-triggered health conditions, vomiting and blackouts are never normal.you can get frankly plastered and never have them happen. they are a sign from Nature that you are a child who is hurting himself. this is important. repeat the info in this paragraph until he begs for mercy. then tell him all of it again. also tell him hangovers are less easily avoided, but are still not necessary. tell him about drinking water and eating food. all that stuff.
then, tell him not to fucking drink at idiot teen parties. wait until he's 18. it'll still be fun and illegal then.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:03 PM on April 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
but what you should do, and what you would be extremely negligent not to do, is explain to him -- more than once! more than twice! how getting drunk works. that is: you have a drink. you drink it like a human being, you don't force it all down your gullet in 10 seconds. then, you WAIT FOR IT TO HIT. it will take some time. then, and not before, you assess your drunkness level and consider having another one. the worst thing an inexperienced idiot can do is to take a shot, feel nothing, figure it's not working, and take another one. it may take a half hour or more to feel the booze set in and in that amount of time you can fuck your body up bad before you feel it. you can probably kill yourself if you're especially ignorant. it's been done.
you do not have to provide him a practicum in law-breaking or substance abuse. but go over the basics of alcohol metabolism and civilized drinking speed. tell him that if you know how to drink and have no scary alcohol-triggered health conditions, vomiting and blackouts are never normal.you can get frankly plastered and never have them happen. they are a sign from Nature that you are a child who is hurting himself. this is important. repeat the info in this paragraph until he begs for mercy. then tell him all of it again. also tell him hangovers are less easily avoided, but are still not necessary. tell him about drinking water and eating food. all that stuff.
then, tell him not to fucking drink at idiot teen parties. wait until he's 18. it'll still be fun and illegal then.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:03 PM on April 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
we found a kid near death from alcohol poisoning
I think this is way more important than the stats regarding future drinking problems among teens who drink. Children (and teens are still children!) need to be educated on the physical dangers of alcohol if not consumed in a consciously safe manner! A friend of my son's when they were about 15 or 16 got invited to a drinking session with some older boys and decided he would like to know what it felt like to get drunk, and apparently was encouraged by the older boys to "guzzle." His mother later found him naked and unconscious on the floor and rushed him to the hospital. She was told he could easily have died within hours had she not found him. Alcohol poisoning is real, and teens who imbibe without education on the matter are at real risk.
Having always fostered a pretty open and communicative relationship with my son, I used this incident as a springboard for teaching him the facts about alcohol as a possible poison, and as always encouraged him to do further research online.
I recommend that you avoid framing this in terms of permitting or forbidding attendance at a particular party, and shift the focus to education ASAP. Information is key to good decision-making.
posted by RRgal at 8:04 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
I think this is way more important than the stats regarding future drinking problems among teens who drink. Children (and teens are still children!) need to be educated on the physical dangers of alcohol if not consumed in a consciously safe manner! A friend of my son's when they were about 15 or 16 got invited to a drinking session with some older boys and decided he would like to know what it felt like to get drunk, and apparently was encouraged by the older boys to "guzzle." His mother later found him naked and unconscious on the floor and rushed him to the hospital. She was told he could easily have died within hours had she not found him. Alcohol poisoning is real, and teens who imbibe without education on the matter are at real risk.
Having always fostered a pretty open and communicative relationship with my son, I used this incident as a springboard for teaching him the facts about alcohol as a possible poison, and as always encouraged him to do further research online.
I recommend that you avoid framing this in terms of permitting or forbidding attendance at a particular party, and shift the focus to education ASAP. Information is key to good decision-making.
posted by RRgal at 8:04 PM on April 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
I (now 50+) was a teenager under extraordinarily strict controls until going off to college. My parents were the pseudo-cool "of course you can sip my wine I am cool" but "of course you can never go to a party where rules are broken, you would be in trouble with us" sort. I had a few beers here and there but never more than two in an evening in high school, because of the rules and my well-warranted morbid fear of being punished (by parents, not by law). Then went to college and am literally lucky to have survived my "omg i am a free bird" exorbitant alcohol use. So there's an anecdote.
As a result, as parent of teen, I do not rely on rules EXCEPT for the rule "for god's sake don't get in a car driven by one of your friends, take a friggin Lyft, or you will be in deep shit trouble." (Easier in urban areas I know). Also the rule "NEVER have sexual contact with anybody while either of you is under the influence, that's how bad shit happens." Instead of rules we rely on discussion. I have told him of times that I literally probably should have died, or could have hurt others. That shit has an impact, when discussed honestly! And with those rules and completely open discussion, in the dynamic of my house, things work well. Again just an anecdote, but I know that my child has a healthier relationship with "partying" than I did.
posted by sheldman at 9:32 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
As a result, as parent of teen, I do not rely on rules EXCEPT for the rule "for god's sake don't get in a car driven by one of your friends, take a friggin Lyft, or you will be in deep shit trouble." (Easier in urban areas I know). Also the rule "NEVER have sexual contact with anybody while either of you is under the influence, that's how bad shit happens." Instead of rules we rely on discussion. I have told him of times that I literally probably should have died, or could have hurt others. That shit has an impact, when discussed honestly! And with those rules and completely open discussion, in the dynamic of my house, things work well. Again just an anecdote, but I know that my child has a healthier relationship with "partying" than I did.
posted by sheldman at 9:32 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think if your son really wanted to do it he'd probably do it without asking. Teenagers are still kids that seek boundaries from authority figures. Sounds like he is asking you to give him a boundary here.
Look, my parents started buying me booze around 13 or 14 in an attempt to be cool friend parents who Understood (also looking for drinking buddies? IDK) and it seriously fucked me up (I ended up being a Bad Kid for a variety of reasons, booze was one of them, and very nearly did not survive my teen years), but not having a parental authority enforcing a foundational idea that this wildness wasn't ok just made it harder to cope. I felt like I was supposed to be happy that my parents let me drink, like it was some kind of weird obligation. I also had absolutely no ammo with which to resist peer pressure.
I didn't want my parents to be my friends. I wanted them to be my parents. I wanted them not to let me do incredibly dangerous things, to protect me from myself.
posted by windykites at 9:41 PM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Look, my parents started buying me booze around 13 or 14 in an attempt to be cool friend parents who Understood (also looking for drinking buddies? IDK) and it seriously fucked me up (I ended up being a Bad Kid for a variety of reasons, booze was one of them, and very nearly did not survive my teen years), but not having a parental authority enforcing a foundational idea that this wildness wasn't ok just made it harder to cope. I felt like I was supposed to be happy that my parents let me drink, like it was some kind of weird obligation. I also had absolutely no ammo with which to resist peer pressure.
I didn't want my parents to be my friends. I wanted them to be my parents. I wanted them not to let me do incredibly dangerous things, to protect me from myself.
posted by windykites at 9:41 PM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
In Australia, so 18 drinking age.
I was flat out not allowed to go to any party where the parents were not there (my parents would drop me off and go in and say hi), this restriction lifted when I was in Grade 12. However, from about 15 at home if there was some sort of party happening I was usually allowed one drink which took away the novelty of drinking when my parents weren't around, it was usually half beer and half lemonade. When I was 17 I got given 2 pre-mixed drinks to take to parties. Taking away the intrigue of drinking while having clear boundaries meant that I really didn't care to drink much, even when I could.
posted by cholly at 11:04 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
I was flat out not allowed to go to any party where the parents were not there (my parents would drop me off and go in and say hi), this restriction lifted when I was in Grade 12. However, from about 15 at home if there was some sort of party happening I was usually allowed one drink which took away the novelty of drinking when my parents weren't around, it was usually half beer and half lemonade. When I was 17 I got given 2 pre-mixed drinks to take to parties. Taking away the intrigue of drinking while having clear boundaries meant that I really didn't care to drink much, even when I could.
posted by cholly at 11:04 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Just want to jump in to agree with those that are saying you should teach him about responsible drinking at home. My mother allowed me to have small amounts of good quality wine and beer in high school. She was adamant that if I drink, it should be the good stuff. There wasn't a taboo about drinking, but a hard line was drawn at reckless consumption and party drinking.
This worked great for me.
I was the kid at high school parties turning down drinks or spitting them out because cheap warm beer and sugary liquor is disgusting. I'm in my mid 20s now and I have only been drunk twice in my life, despite regularly going to parties.
The reason a lot of kids end up drinking and partying young (imo) is because they think it gives them power and maturity. It's your job to show them that's not the case.
posted by InkDrinker at 12:34 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
This worked great for me.
I was the kid at high school parties turning down drinks or spitting them out because cheap warm beer and sugary liquor is disgusting. I'm in my mid 20s now and I have only been drunk twice in my life, despite regularly going to parties.
The reason a lot of kids end up drinking and partying young (imo) is because they think it gives them power and maturity. It's your job to show them that's not the case.
posted by InkDrinker at 12:34 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
If your kid has gone to the trouble of asking you, and being honest about the nature of the party, it's possible that he privately wants you to say no. Saying no to a drink because "ugh, my parents are really strict about alcohol" can be easier, at that age, than having to take responsibility for the "no" yourself and getting mocked by peers as a consequence.
posted by embrangled at 2:21 AM on April 24, 2018
posted by embrangled at 2:21 AM on April 24, 2018
Response by poster: MetaFilter has answered many questions for me but this has been the most compelling read yet. We have read over each response. So many great perspectives. I am glad this wasn't dominated by the "it's illegal," defence.
We have some work to do and I spoke with my son about my not drinking this morning and how drinking didn't appeal to me but all my friends loved it. I was given great responsibility by my parents because of my lack of drinking I expect.
I do like dropping in to say hello to the parents who are having the party, although that may turn the offspring to dust.
Moderation and understanding how booze works seems like an important topic and I too had a friend who fell into a alcohol induced coma when I was in grade ten. On a side note he became an engineer so not positive I can take the drinking will prevent you from achieving your academic goals.
I'd like to see the drinking thing kicked down the road and during the trip discussing it further. Followiing up the idea of tasting it at home and feeling how it affect you.
You guys are the best, new donation to Meta Filter to follow.
posted by ashtray elvis at 4:39 AM on April 24, 2018 [8 favorites]
We have some work to do and I spoke with my son about my not drinking this morning and how drinking didn't appeal to me but all my friends loved it. I was given great responsibility by my parents because of my lack of drinking I expect.
I do like dropping in to say hello to the parents who are having the party, although that may turn the offspring to dust.
Moderation and understanding how booze works seems like an important topic and I too had a friend who fell into a alcohol induced coma when I was in grade ten. On a side note he became an engineer so not positive I can take the drinking will prevent you from achieving your academic goals.
I'd like to see the drinking thing kicked down the road and during the trip discussing it further. Followiing up the idea of tasting it at home and feeling how it affect you.
You guys are the best, new donation to Meta Filter to follow.
posted by ashtray elvis at 4:39 AM on April 24, 2018 [8 favorites]
I haven‘t seen it mentioned here but I think it would be good to talk about the way it feels (mentally) to drink.
How it makes you feel really good and relaxed and you can say and do whatever you want and it‘ll be ok. Tell him why people drink. But also how it means you end up doing stupid things, that embarass you. About the shitty feeling the morning after.
About how once the booze starts working you’ll be so „whatever“ that you end up saying „ok“ or „why the hell not“ to a lot of things you‘ll later wish you hadn’t. (insert own example.) About consent and what it means in relation to being drunk.
Like in sex ed, I found that I knew a lot about how drinking works physically, but was completely blindsided by what it‘s like emotionally and mentally.
posted by Omnomnom at 7:33 AM on April 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
How it makes you feel really good and relaxed and you can say and do whatever you want and it‘ll be ok. Tell him why people drink. But also how it means you end up doing stupid things, that embarass you. About the shitty feeling the morning after.
About how once the booze starts working you’ll be so „whatever“ that you end up saying „ok“ or „why the hell not“ to a lot of things you‘ll later wish you hadn’t. (insert own example.) About consent and what it means in relation to being drunk.
Like in sex ed, I found that I knew a lot about how drinking works physically, but was completely blindsided by what it‘s like emotionally and mentally.
posted by Omnomnom at 7:33 AM on April 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
So I think you should definitely open up the drinking conversation to include topics about inhibition and what people are capable of. I think a lot of kids in the US go through a drinking phase in young adulthood through the college years and then naturally grow out of it as they mature (of course some dont and with dire consequence). What I'm trying to say is that young adults drinking is not unusual and does not automatically mean your kid will turn out to be a flunkie.
You should talk to them about what might happen in a setting where a lot of kids are drunk. Things like what would they do if they thought someone was too drunk? What about group think? Are they strong enough to be the one to call an ambulance and risk "ruining" the party or outing the hosts? (see cases like the Penn State hazing death). What would they do if a drunk girl started doing things like taking off some clothes and dancing sexy? Would they be able to control the situation and prevent a sexual assault at the party? How could they stop a friend from driving? getting into a car as a passenger to an impaired driver? Leaving with someone they dont know? Damaging the property where the party is? I think a bunch of kids with undeveloped judgement and lowered inhibitions is the bigger risk than the drinking itself.
posted by WeekendJen at 8:15 AM on April 24, 2018 [14 favorites]
You should talk to them about what might happen in a setting where a lot of kids are drunk. Things like what would they do if they thought someone was too drunk? What about group think? Are they strong enough to be the one to call an ambulance and risk "ruining" the party or outing the hosts? (see cases like the Penn State hazing death). What would they do if a drunk girl started doing things like taking off some clothes and dancing sexy? Would they be able to control the situation and prevent a sexual assault at the party? How could they stop a friend from driving? getting into a car as a passenger to an impaired driver? Leaving with someone they dont know? Damaging the property where the party is? I think a bunch of kids with undeveloped judgement and lowered inhibitions is the bigger risk than the drinking itself.
posted by WeekendJen at 8:15 AM on April 24, 2018 [14 favorites]
One thing, show him how a mixed drink is made: One Ounce of booze, Many ounces of mix. Kids think they should drink a whole glass of something, or from the bottle, to be cool. Not cool. Talk also about the probable result of puke everywhere. My son's first party was an eye-opener for him. But he was 18. Drinking age here is 19, but it was a graduation party, and he called us when he wanted to go home.
posted by Enid Lareg at 8:31 AM on April 24, 2018
posted by Enid Lareg at 8:31 AM on April 24, 2018
How could they stop a friend from driving? getting into a car as a passenger to an impaired driver?
I was a teenaged drinker. One of the best things my otherwise-problematic mom said to me is that if I was somewhere and needed a ride home, I should call her at any time of the day/night and she'd come get me (or friends) and there would be NO LECTURE (until later), I could just come home and sleep it off. She later became a little too permissive with my younger sister, allowing her to drink at home and buying booze for her. I think the biggest thing nowadays is that even if your kid may be basically sensible, many other kids may not be and it's worth talking about all the larger issues especially ones surrounding consent and operating motor vehicles.
In the US we had a lot of lectures in health education class about the alcohol equivalence of various drinks and a general rule-of-thumb about how quickly it metabolized and how there's more or less not a safe amount to be drinking or driving. I feel all those things are useful data points to know. I grew up in a family of problem drinkers (I am now a grownup who barely drinks but it took me a while to arrive there) so I felt like it was a riskier business for me than some average kid. My sister had a rough time with alcohol (and drugs) as a young person and is completely sober now. Some of this stuff is going to happen no matter what sort of control you exert. Having a kid who is open to talking to you about all this is terrific, best of luck moving forward with this.
posted by jessamyn at 9:36 AM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
I was a teenaged drinker. One of the best things my otherwise-problematic mom said to me is that if I was somewhere and needed a ride home, I should call her at any time of the day/night and she'd come get me (or friends) and there would be NO LECTURE (until later), I could just come home and sleep it off. She later became a little too permissive with my younger sister, allowing her to drink at home and buying booze for her. I think the biggest thing nowadays is that even if your kid may be basically sensible, many other kids may not be and it's worth talking about all the larger issues especially ones surrounding consent and operating motor vehicles.
In the US we had a lot of lectures in health education class about the alcohol equivalence of various drinks and a general rule-of-thumb about how quickly it metabolized and how there's more or less not a safe amount to be drinking or driving. I feel all those things are useful data points to know. I grew up in a family of problem drinkers (I am now a grownup who barely drinks but it took me a while to arrive there) so I felt like it was a riskier business for me than some average kid. My sister had a rough time with alcohol (and drugs) as a young person and is completely sober now. Some of this stuff is going to happen no matter what sort of control you exert. Having a kid who is open to talking to you about all this is terrific, best of luck moving forward with this.
posted by jessamyn at 9:36 AM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
Whether or not he's a familiar personality to your son, you could always mention the late Avicii's long struggle with alcoholism and pancreatitis in your discussions about drinking, as a data point and/or a springboard for further discussions about alcohol use -- the whys, the why nots, and such.
posted by lumensimus at 9:58 AM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by lumensimus at 9:58 AM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
It's such a good sign that your kiddo was open with you about this.
I come from a family of drinkers. One of the best decisions my parents made with my brother and me was to demystify alcohol and make it (mostly) a non-issue. He and I were always welcome to a sip of whatever if we were curious. As we got a little older, we were welcome to have wine or champagne or whatever, first on special occasions, then with regular dinners if we wanted. The rules were that we did our drinking at home, we didn't invite friends over to drink, and we had to be responsible about it. Oddly enough, it also provided some bonding experiences. To this day, for example, the taste of gin reminds me of eating the gin-soaked olives from my dad's martinis.
There was no taboo. There was no sneaking. By the time we were going to parties and whatever, we were used to alcohol and the effects it could have. It was far less interesting than it would have been otherwise, so we never went off the deep end or did anything foolish. We both really enjoy drinking, but we're careful about it. It never became a big deal, and I've always really appreciated that. Just more anecdata.
(No history whatsoever of alcoholism in our family, by the way. If there were, I'd be far less comfortable with this method.)
posted by QuickedWeen at 10:10 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
I come from a family of drinkers. One of the best decisions my parents made with my brother and me was to demystify alcohol and make it (mostly) a non-issue. He and I were always welcome to a sip of whatever if we were curious. As we got a little older, we were welcome to have wine or champagne or whatever, first on special occasions, then with regular dinners if we wanted. The rules were that we did our drinking at home, we didn't invite friends over to drink, and we had to be responsible about it. Oddly enough, it also provided some bonding experiences. To this day, for example, the taste of gin reminds me of eating the gin-soaked olives from my dad's martinis.
There was no taboo. There was no sneaking. By the time we were going to parties and whatever, we were used to alcohol and the effects it could have. It was far less interesting than it would have been otherwise, so we never went off the deep end or did anything foolish. We both really enjoy drinking, but we're careful about it. It never became a big deal, and I've always really appreciated that. Just more anecdata.
(No history whatsoever of alcoholism in our family, by the way. If there were, I'd be far less comfortable with this method.)
posted by QuickedWeen at 10:10 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
By the time we were going to parties and whatever, we were used to alcohol and the effects it could have. It was far less interesting than it would have been otherwise, so we never went off the deep end or did anything foolish.
this makes perfect sense to me. I too come from a family of drinkers (as opposed to alcoholics), but even though my parents did a better job than most of phasing me into the world of drinking, I still had a few harrowing adventures at first. Because bluntly, I was ahead of my parents' plan (ie: getting drunk for the first time when I was twelve).
So again I can't help but think of the German example, with the added emphasis that those German parents were allowing their kids supervised access to enough alcohol to get pretty darned hammered. Which was the point. "We know there's every possibility that you're going to drink like idiots at first. Please do it here, in our yard, away from sharp objects and whatever. We won't chastise you for it. But we'll probably laugh at you."
posted by philip-random at 1:55 PM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
this makes perfect sense to me. I too come from a family of drinkers (as opposed to alcoholics), but even though my parents did a better job than most of phasing me into the world of drinking, I still had a few harrowing adventures at first. Because bluntly, I was ahead of my parents' plan (ie: getting drunk for the first time when I was twelve).
So again I can't help but think of the German example, with the added emphasis that those German parents were allowing their kids supervised access to enough alcohol to get pretty darned hammered. Which was the point. "We know there's every possibility that you're going to drink like idiots at first. Please do it here, in our yard, away from sharp objects and whatever. We won't chastise you for it. But we'll probably laugh at you."
posted by philip-random at 1:55 PM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
I grew up with SEX IS BAD ALCOHOL IS BAD END OF DISCUSSION parents and it didn't set me up great for heading off to college.
Consequently, the Talk I gave my little brother, to share with him the benefit of hindsight before he left for college was as follows: You have the whole rest of your life to enjoy sex and alcohol. Starting on it too soon can lead to very real consequences (legal and otherwise) that can fuck up your whole life. It's not that sex and alcohol are bad, but they do come with great responsibility, and those consequences are far worse when you're too young to deal with them. So don't rush in, and start slow. Spend a long time in the sip-a-single drink / making out stage. Enjoy the journey and ramp it up slowly, rather than rushing in, getting over your head, and having something terrible happen. And, be forewarned that wild teen drinking parties have a high likelihood of getting you in way over your head in both domains, so go in with your eyes open and a rock solid exit plan.
posted by telepanda at 3:19 PM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
Consequently, the Talk I gave my little brother, to share with him the benefit of hindsight before he left for college was as follows: You have the whole rest of your life to enjoy sex and alcohol. Starting on it too soon can lead to very real consequences (legal and otherwise) that can fuck up your whole life. It's not that sex and alcohol are bad, but they do come with great responsibility, and those consequences are far worse when you're too young to deal with them. So don't rush in, and start slow. Spend a long time in the sip-a-single drink / making out stage. Enjoy the journey and ramp it up slowly, rather than rushing in, getting over your head, and having something terrible happen. And, be forewarned that wild teen drinking parties have a high likelihood of getting you in way over your head in both domains, so go in with your eyes open and a rock solid exit plan.
posted by telepanda at 3:19 PM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Assuming you are in the U.S., it's illegal for him to drink and to be served alcohol. So, right there, it's out of your hands, the law has decided otherwise. If you served booze to underage drinkers to "control the situation," you are behaving against the law and could and should be held liable for any illegal, bad or fatal behavior that results from inebriated kids.
I also think it's better to learn to drink responsibly at home, but that doesn't happen in a party situation. Does he drink wine or beer with you all at dinner?
It's really bad for his brain and decision making. I literally can think of no upsides to this. If he feels he cannot resist the peer pressure, then I think as the parents, you are obligated to forbid it. And you are also obligated to discuss some of the bad things that happen when teens drink - drunk driving, bad sex, un-consenting sexual encounters, property damage, brain damage, so many bad choices. Alcohol is really kind of a disaster.
posted by amanda at 2:11 PM on April 23, 2018 [57 favorites]