Updating my PC - old lady edition
April 6, 2018 9:44 PM Subscribe
I need to install Windows 10 and Office 2016 on my home PC. I'm scared.
I have Windows 7 and Office 2010. I need to upgrade to Windows 10 (and I didn't know I could do it for free and now I can't) and Office 2016 so I can work on files at home and work without them getting sucky. I've always had someone else around to do this stuff for me, but now it's my turn and I don't know what I should be careful of (except that all my data is on external harddrives now so I can detach it).
I was going to buy the software at a local office supplies shop, but apparently you have to download it (WTF!) . However, the prices are stupidly different: Windows 10 Pro runs from about $10 to $340. Office Professional Plus 2016 (I don't want the subscription type) runs from $10 to $760. (Why?)
My PC was built by a lovely young man (friend of my son's) about 3 years ago who works in the industry and who I trust but he's not available right now, but if you need information about my PC to advise me, you're going to have to tell me where to look for it.
So in short:
Where (online) do I (safely) buy the software (also, I'm Australian)?
What steps do I need to take to make sure I don't break my PC or any of its current qualities (like passwords? there's a lot of automatic passwords on here for websites, and I have no idea where they are)?
Anything else I might have no idea about being an enduser with ID-10-T issues?
Am I going to have to reinstall other software that I probably don't have the disks for anymore, or the activation keys? [I can probably cope with losing all that software but don't really want to. A GeeksRus dude set up some backup software on my PC but I don't think it's working properly because my 1.8 TB back up drive is nearly full. Maybe I should lose that one.]
I have Windows 7 and Office 2010. I need to upgrade to Windows 10 (and I didn't know I could do it for free and now I can't) and Office 2016 so I can work on files at home and work without them getting sucky. I've always had someone else around to do this stuff for me, but now it's my turn and I don't know what I should be careful of (except that all my data is on external harddrives now so I can detach it).
I was going to buy the software at a local office supplies shop, but apparently you have to download it (WTF!) . However, the prices are stupidly different: Windows 10 Pro runs from about $10 to $340. Office Professional Plus 2016 (I don't want the subscription type) runs from $10 to $760. (Why?)
My PC was built by a lovely young man (friend of my son's) about 3 years ago who works in the industry and who I trust but he's not available right now, but if you need information about my PC to advise me, you're going to have to tell me where to look for it.
So in short:
Where (online) do I (safely) buy the software (also, I'm Australian)?
What steps do I need to take to make sure I don't break my PC or any of its current qualities (like passwords? there's a lot of automatic passwords on here for websites, and I have no idea where they are)?
Anything else I might have no idea about being an enduser with ID-10-T issues?
Am I going to have to reinstall other software that I probably don't have the disks for anymore, or the activation keys? [I can probably cope with losing all that software but don't really want to. A GeeksRus dude set up some backup software on my PC but I don't think it's working properly because my 1.8 TB back up drive is nearly full. Maybe I should lose that one.]
I think the last free upgrade path ended on 31 December last year, sadly.
posted by howfar at 4:41 AM on April 7, 2018
posted by howfar at 4:41 AM on April 7, 2018
Upgrading to Windows 10 can be a bit of a pain. I bit the bullet myself the other week and had a few issues with the 'upgrade' - in the end I wiped my main drive and went with a fresh install, which is generally recommended for OS installation anyway I think.
So I wonder if there might be a way to step back and solve your problem without upgrading to Windows 10. In my experience, there's still a great deal of cross compatibility between Windows 7 and later versions – so if you could be a bit more specific about why you feel forced on to Windows 10, we might be able to try something else.
posted by Ted Maul at 4:51 AM on April 7, 2018
So I wonder if there might be a way to step back and solve your problem without upgrading to Windows 10. In my experience, there's still a great deal of cross compatibility between Windows 7 and later versions – so if you could be a bit more specific about why you feel forced on to Windows 10, we might be able to try something else.
posted by Ted Maul at 4:51 AM on April 7, 2018
I think the last free upgrade path ended on 31 December last year, sadly
That is indeed the case.
There are many, many, many ways for a civilian* to experience horrible and baffling failures during an OS upgrade, especially on a machine well-established enough that just burning everything to the ground and starting over is a truly unattractive proposition.
As somebody who does this kind of thing for money: in your position, I would strongly recommend looking for ways to make the experience of editing your files in multiple locations with multiple Office versions suck less than it does right now, and consider the "upgrade" option only as a last resort, and even then wait for your lovely young man to become available again before going down that road.
If you can elaborate a bit more on the processes by which your files get sucky, I'd be happy to suggest workarounds.
*i.e. ordinary human being without years of specific experience in bending Microsoft products to one's will until the vicious little bastards bleed
posted by flabdablet at 4:59 AM on April 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
That is indeed the case.
There are many, many, many ways for a civilian* to experience horrible and baffling failures during an OS upgrade, especially on a machine well-established enough that just burning everything to the ground and starting over is a truly unattractive proposition.
As somebody who does this kind of thing for money: in your position, I would strongly recommend looking for ways to make the experience of editing your files in multiple locations with multiple Office versions suck less than it does right now, and consider the "upgrade" option only as a last resort, and even then wait for your lovely young man to become available again before going down that road.
If you can elaborate a bit more on the processes by which your files get sucky, I'd be happy to suggest workarounds.
*i.e. ordinary human being without years of specific experience in bending Microsoft products to one's will until the vicious little bastards bleed
posted by flabdablet at 4:59 AM on April 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
My first question would be: Are you sure you need Windows 10? Upgrading to Office 2016 totally makes sense, because the new versions of Word/Excel/etc. have new features that would affect the formatting of your documents, but having Windows 10 would not affect file formatting at all. And any file sharing you can access from Windows 10 you should be able to access from Windows 7.
If you are sure you need Windows 10, the first step is to make sure that you have a good backup of your data. Most of the time the upgrade works fine, but sometimes things go Wrong, so you want to make sure that if your computer comes up with a totally blank profile that you'll be OK.
By backup I just mean a copy of your stuff. You don't necessarily need any special backup software for this; you can just get an external hard drive and copy your documents/photos/anything you care about to the external drive.
For preserving passwords: You can use this tool to extract a copy of your saved passwords from your browser(s). Your antivirus will not like this piece of software (it is trying to reveal your passwords after all, which is sketchy behavior if you're not expecting it), so you'll probably need to disable that temporarily.
There are two main versions of Windows 10: Home, and Professional. You probably want Home. Pro's biggest feature is the ability to join corporate domains so that IT staff can keep passwords and settings centrally managed, but since this is your home PC that is unlikely to be necessary.
But as the commenters above mention, an OS upgrade can be a hairy process, so you may save yourself a lot of grief by letting a local professional handle it. (Even then, make sure you have a backup of your data before turning your PC over to someone else)
The Office 2016 upgrade is a much more straightforward process, fortunately. If you don't want a subscription the three main choices are:
* Office Home and Student: This includes Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and OneNote
* Office Home and Business: This includes the above + Outlook
* Office Professional: This includes both of the above + Publisher and Access.
One difference between Office 2016 and Office 2010: you will need to set up a Microsoft account (if you don't already have one) to do the product activation. If you buy from the links above, your Office key will be tied to the Microsoft account you sign into the store with. If you buy a keycard from Amazon/a local shop, the website you download the installer from will have you set up that account.
Once you buy, it's a straightforward process to upgrade Office: Click the Install link on Microsoft's store page, open the little installer program that it downloads, follow the on-screen instructions, then wait about 15-20 minutes while it installs. When you open any of your Office programs for the first time, it'll ask you for that Microsoft username/password above. Enter that in, and Office will activate and you're all set.
posted by JDHarper at 5:19 AM on April 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you are sure you need Windows 10, the first step is to make sure that you have a good backup of your data. Most of the time the upgrade works fine, but sometimes things go Wrong, so you want to make sure that if your computer comes up with a totally blank profile that you'll be OK.
By backup I just mean a copy of your stuff. You don't necessarily need any special backup software for this; you can just get an external hard drive and copy your documents/photos/anything you care about to the external drive.
For preserving passwords: You can use this tool to extract a copy of your saved passwords from your browser(s). Your antivirus will not like this piece of software (it is trying to reveal your passwords after all, which is sketchy behavior if you're not expecting it), so you'll probably need to disable that temporarily.
There are two main versions of Windows 10: Home, and Professional. You probably want Home. Pro's biggest feature is the ability to join corporate domains so that IT staff can keep passwords and settings centrally managed, but since this is your home PC that is unlikely to be necessary.
But as the commenters above mention, an OS upgrade can be a hairy process, so you may save yourself a lot of grief by letting a local professional handle it. (Even then, make sure you have a backup of your data before turning your PC over to someone else)
The Office 2016 upgrade is a much more straightforward process, fortunately. If you don't want a subscription the three main choices are:
* Office Home and Student: This includes Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and OneNote
* Office Home and Business: This includes the above + Outlook
* Office Professional: This includes both of the above + Publisher and Access.
One difference between Office 2016 and Office 2010: you will need to set up a Microsoft account (if you don't already have one) to do the product activation. If you buy from the links above, your Office key will be tied to the Microsoft account you sign into the store with. If you buy a keycard from Amazon/a local shop, the website you download the installer from will have you set up that account.
Once you buy, it's a straightforward process to upgrade Office: Click the Install link on Microsoft's store page, open the little installer program that it downloads, follow the on-screen instructions, then wait about 15-20 minutes while it installs. When you open any of your Office programs for the first time, it'll ask you for that Microsoft username/password above. Enter that in, and Office will activate and you're all set.
posted by JDHarper at 5:19 AM on April 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
Back it up. Documents, bookmarks, music, pictures, videos. Check the download folder, stuff lands there. Buy an external hard drive for this, and/or use a service. Backing up is not hard, losing data is easy and painful. Hard drives fail pretty often.
Make a list of apps installed so you can make sure you keep that one game you love. I keep installers in a folder and back them up because it can take a while to find and download everything.
I'm not a fan of win 10. If you can just upgrade Office, that would be my choice. See if you can legally get the office version you need through work. Microsoft licencing is Byzantine and changes often, worth a shot.
Also, back up your data.
posted by theora55 at 6:24 AM on April 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Make a list of apps installed so you can make sure you keep that one game you love. I keep installers in a folder and back them up because it can take a while to find and download everything.
I'm not a fan of win 10. If you can just upgrade Office, that would be my choice. See if you can legally get the office version you need through work. Microsoft licencing is Byzantine and changes often, worth a shot.
Also, back up your data.
posted by theora55 at 6:24 AM on April 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Seconding the suggestion to find a way to work on the files without upgrading. Dropbox and Google Drive are both possibilities, although workplace policy may block them. (However, if your workplace blocks them, you shouldn't have to work on them at home--they should provide the software and hardware you need.)
Some workplaces block Gmail but not the general Google login, and G'Drive may still be available. However, that does mean "download, work on file, upload when done," because g'docs is sadly lacking in many, many features that Word has. ("Stick with next" paragraphs; image placement controls; underline style... there's a long list.) At worst, emailing files back and forth may be possible.
If you do decide to upgrade, backup EVERYTHING first. Pick up an external hard drive, and copy your entire drive onto it. You won't be able to just copy the files back to reinstall things, but you'll have a complete list along with all the settings documents, in case anything gets scrambled in the upgrades. Definitely at least copy over your entire documents folder. (If you can, copy that one to more than one place: an external drive, a cloud service, maybe a second external drive or a backup older computer if you've got one with space... it's good to have multiple backups before dealing with Microsoft's horrific "we will improve your entire computer experience!" approach to software.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:29 AM on April 7, 2018
Some workplaces block Gmail but not the general Google login, and G'Drive may still be available. However, that does mean "download, work on file, upload when done," because g'docs is sadly lacking in many, many features that Word has. ("Stick with next" paragraphs; image placement controls; underline style... there's a long list.) At worst, emailing files back and forth may be possible.
If you do decide to upgrade, backup EVERYTHING first. Pick up an external hard drive, and copy your entire drive onto it. You won't be able to just copy the files back to reinstall things, but you'll have a complete list along with all the settings documents, in case anything gets scrambled in the upgrades. Definitely at least copy over your entire documents folder. (If you can, copy that one to more than one place: an external drive, a cloud service, maybe a second external drive or a backup older computer if you've got one with space... it's good to have multiple backups before dealing with Microsoft's horrific "we will improve your entire computer experience!" approach to software.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:29 AM on April 7, 2018
See if you can legally get the office version you need through work.
Microsoft Home Use Program
posted by flabdablet at 10:26 AM on April 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Microsoft Home Use Program
posted by flabdablet at 10:26 AM on April 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Windows 10 is extremely horrible on its own but there are various useful third party programs to make it less ghastly. The main problem I had with it is that the Windows Easy Transfer program that let you upload a transfer file of your entire hard drive right into your new machine no longer exists. Windows suggests that you use a third party program that costs $50 plus the strongly suggested purchase of a "special cable" to do what the formerly free program did and it's fucking garbage, do not use this program if you can help it.
things i am currently using to make my win10 experience less like chronic norovirus (aka a constant geyser of shit):
- WinAero tweaker (allows you to make many many kinds of display and accessibility changes which are no longer possible in win10 without registry editing)
- StartIsBack (makes the start menu look like previous windows versions, removes the stupid apps thing and calls them programs like the lord intended)
- 7+ taskbar tweaker (lets you arrange your taskbar with more options than win10 offers)
you can reinstall older versions of programs from the oldapps.com website; afaik i have never downloaded any kind of malicious program from them and i use the site frequently. if you still have product key codes though you should be able to download the new version from the program's own website and just reenter that. the codes will be somewhere in your old emails from when you bought the product in the first place, presumably?
your passwords will be stored in your browser. if it's chrome, you just need to log in to a gmail address and sync all your passwords and bookmarks and saved form information to that account, and then use that same gmail to log in to chrome on your new machine and resync. you don't need to stay logged in after that, the browser's user settings will save that as the default.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:45 PM on April 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
things i am currently using to make my win10 experience less like chronic norovirus (aka a constant geyser of shit):
- WinAero tweaker (allows you to make many many kinds of display and accessibility changes which are no longer possible in win10 without registry editing)
- StartIsBack (makes the start menu look like previous windows versions, removes the stupid apps thing and calls them programs like the lord intended)
- 7+ taskbar tweaker (lets you arrange your taskbar with more options than win10 offers)
you can reinstall older versions of programs from the oldapps.com website; afaik i have never downloaded any kind of malicious program from them and i use the site frequently. if you still have product key codes though you should be able to download the new version from the program's own website and just reenter that. the codes will be somewhere in your old emails from when you bought the product in the first place, presumably?
your passwords will be stored in your browser. if it's chrome, you just need to log in to a gmail address and sync all your passwords and bookmarks and saved form information to that account, and then use that same gmail to log in to chrome on your new machine and resync. you don't need to stay logged in after that, the browser's user settings will save that as the default.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:45 PM on April 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
I helped a friend upgrade from 7 to 8 and then from 8 to 10, and one thing which I thought wasn't particularly easy to infer: I had to do multiple cycles of Windows Update→ reboot → run Windows Update again → reboot again... because it evidently doesn't just download everything at once. I swear I had to do it, like, a dozen times on one of those occasions before Windows Update said everything was up to date. (Not that other operating systems don't do that at all, but on my friend's computer at least Windows just seemed egregious about it.)
posted by XMLicious at 2:14 PM on April 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 2:14 PM on April 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Please, for the love of all that is holy, back up anything that you can't afford to lose. And do it again. Just because. Whether or not you actually upgrade your OS. I know you said that you have backups, but this always bears repeating.
Like others above, I suggest that you just upgrade Office to whatever version you need. Install new Office and leave the OS alone.
TL;DR - If you absolutely must do it: Don't upgrade the OS in place. Buy a new hard drive and do a fresh install. Your future tech support will be glad that you did.
I will be honest, because you deserve the truth. At your level of knowledge, with a custom/home built PC, please don't try to update to 10 by yourself. 10 is a fickle beast, and now would be a bad time to need to buy a new computer in a hurry because your old one is stuck in a boot loop or an update loop that can't be broken. Upgraded installs are ticking timebombs, as far as I'm concerned.
Unless you can find, download, and update the BIOS/UEFI firmware for your motherboard, as well as get all of the various chipset and graphics and Ethernet and other drivers that you probably won't, but might, need; and all of the software installation files for everything that you use. Then what I'd tell you to do is to go buy a new hard drive, take the old one out, and start from scratch with a new drive. Install 10 on the new drive. Once it finishes updating, make recovery media. Install your software. Make regular backups. That is what I'd tell anyone to do. It is what I would do.
Just since January I've had two upgraded-to-10 computers get the better of me. The first one got stuck in an unrecoverable upgrade-fail-reboot loop. So I pulled the hard drive and hooked it up to my old XP desktop and got her irreplacable and not backed up files off of it, and the reason that I was able to get the person's files off was that she hadn't put a password on it and the drive was under 1TB. I might have been able to use 10's recovery features if it had been a clean install instead of an upgrade. I wasn't willing to risk losing some 4+ years of the owner's files to find out if the only recovery option really wouldn't erase them. The owner bought a new computer.
The second one is a laptop that never should have been upgraded to 10 because Intel couldn't/decided not to write a new IMEI driver for it and so the laptop won't shut down all the way unless forced with a hard shut down. Then to turn it back on, one must pull the battery first. I'm reasonably sure that it isn't getting any updates at all now, even security updates. I can't revert it to its original Windows 8.1 because the manufacturer has taken the 8.1 drivers and everything else off of the support website, and since it should never have been upgraded to 10, there are no 10 drivers either. This laptop still works adequately, but since the owner can't really afford to replace it I won't risk doing a clean install of 10 or 8.1 to get rid of the mountain of residual stuff from dozens of games and some poorly sourced software that were installed.
posted by monopas at 10:57 PM on April 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
Like others above, I suggest that you just upgrade Office to whatever version you need. Install new Office and leave the OS alone.
TL;DR - If you absolutely must do it: Don't upgrade the OS in place. Buy a new hard drive and do a fresh install. Your future tech support will be glad that you did.
I will be honest, because you deserve the truth. At your level of knowledge, with a custom/home built PC, please don't try to update to 10 by yourself. 10 is a fickle beast, and now would be a bad time to need to buy a new computer in a hurry because your old one is stuck in a boot loop or an update loop that can't be broken. Upgraded installs are ticking timebombs, as far as I'm concerned.
Unless you can find, download, and update the BIOS/UEFI firmware for your motherboard, as well as get all of the various chipset and graphics and Ethernet and other drivers that you probably won't, but might, need; and all of the software installation files for everything that you use. Then what I'd tell you to do is to go buy a new hard drive, take the old one out, and start from scratch with a new drive. Install 10 on the new drive. Once it finishes updating, make recovery media. Install your software. Make regular backups. That is what I'd tell anyone to do. It is what I would do.
Just since January I've had two upgraded-to-10 computers get the better of me. The first one got stuck in an unrecoverable upgrade-fail-reboot loop. So I pulled the hard drive and hooked it up to my old XP desktop and got her irreplacable and not backed up files off of it, and the reason that I was able to get the person's files off was that she hadn't put a password on it and the drive was under 1TB. I might have been able to use 10's recovery features if it had been a clean install instead of an upgrade. I wasn't willing to risk losing some 4+ years of the owner's files to find out if the only recovery option really wouldn't erase them. The owner bought a new computer.
The second one is a laptop that never should have been upgraded to 10 because Intel couldn't/decided not to write a new IMEI driver for it and so the laptop won't shut down all the way unless forced with a hard shut down. Then to turn it back on, one must pull the battery first. I'm reasonably sure that it isn't getting any updates at all now, even security updates. I can't revert it to its original Windows 8.1 because the manufacturer has taken the 8.1 drivers and everything else off of the support website, and since it should never have been upgraded to 10, there are no 10 drivers either. This laptop still works adequately, but since the owner can't really afford to replace it I won't risk doing a clean install of 10 or 8.1 to get rid of the mountain of residual stuff from dozens of games and some poorly sourced software that were installed.
posted by monopas at 10:57 PM on April 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
For what it's worth, I second the advice of the person who said you may not need to upgrade Windows. Office 2016 works just fine on Windows 7. You'll want to upgrade to Windows 10 eventually (or just wait to buy a new PC), but there's no need to rush just because you need to upgrade Office.
I would not look for alternatives to Office. There's nothing wrong with Google Docs, but if your employer is using Office, you'd best be using it at home as well to maintain full compatibility, which makes things far, far easier all-round. Do look into whether your employer has the kind of enterprise licensing to provide you with the Home Use Program as mentioned above... in the US, we get to download Office Pro for $9.99 through the HUP. I believe the link above will ask for your work email address to confirm whether you can take advantage of HUP, but if it says "no," ask your IT people.
Though I understand your reluctance to get the subscription version (Office 365), it does buy you a terabyte of online storage space and keeps you at the current Office version..
posted by lhauser at 1:02 PM on April 8, 2018
I would not look for alternatives to Office. There's nothing wrong with Google Docs, but if your employer is using Office, you'd best be using it at home as well to maintain full compatibility, which makes things far, far easier all-round. Do look into whether your employer has the kind of enterprise licensing to provide you with the Home Use Program as mentioned above... in the US, we get to download Office Pro for $9.99 through the HUP. I believe the link above will ask for your work email address to confirm whether you can take advantage of HUP, but if it says "no," ask your IT people.
Though I understand your reluctance to get the subscription version (Office 365), it does buy you a terabyte of online storage space and keeps you at the current Office version..
posted by lhauser at 1:02 PM on April 8, 2018
Response by poster: Final update: I tried to do it myself and it hung. Luckily all my data was saved and my son reformatted the harddrive and reinstalled windows and office (which then wouldn't operate because it needed to connect to the internet, and wifi dongle was being difficult) so a friend used some cat 5 and got it going. All is fine now, and I have also replaced my portable hard drives that kept changing permissions with a nice portable SSD that I can even plug into my phone (though I haven't attempted it yet).
posted by b33j at 6:31 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by b33j at 6:31 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
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Worth a try!
posted by pharm at 1:34 AM on April 7, 2018 [1 favorite]