Contractor nightmare - what are our options?
March 30, 2018 7:11 AM Subscribe
The contractor we hired to do significant renovations to our house has done the demolition part and not much else. We are living in rubble and I’m concerned our house is structurally unsound. What are our options to get our home back?
The contractor was recommended to us by our realtor. He came out to the house several times this fall and assured us that what we were asking for (removing 2 walls on the ground floor, one of which was load-bearing; complete renovation of the kitchen) was no big deal and that the whole thing would take them two weeks (hah!). We hired an architect who drew up plans for a beam that would replace the load-bearing wall.
Demolition on the living room walls began just after Thanksgiving. Since then, it’s been a non-stop barrage of excuses for why they can’t get the beam in. Our house is being supported by temporary support pillars that they put up sometime in December. The plaster in our remaining walls is beginning to crack, and there are either holes or points of weakness on the floor on the second story above where the beam is supposed to go. I’m worried that our house is unstable and dangerous for us to be living in. (Have I mentioned we’re still living here?)
Furthermore, they demoed the kitchen in early January in the hopes that they could at least get that done while they waited on figuring out how to get the living room beam up. The kitchen subfloor is in and some drywall has been put up, but the floor, cabinets, sink, etc still haven’t been put in. The entire ground floor of our house is dust and rubble. They tried to put the beam in yesterday, but it’s warped from sitting outside under a tarp all winter (!!) and in the process of trying to get it in, they dropped it and broke several floorboards in the living room.
We are at our wits’ end and don’t know what to do. My partner doesn’t think we can sue them for breach of contract, because no dates were specified in the contract, though we have text message records of the contractor promising specific timelines. Is there a state board we can report them to? Shout we eat the money we’ve given them (half the cost of the project) and try to hire someone else? We are in Philadelphia, so any location-specific ideas are welcome.
(Apologies if this is missing important details. Home improvement is very much not in my wheelhouse.)
The contractor was recommended to us by our realtor. He came out to the house several times this fall and assured us that what we were asking for (removing 2 walls on the ground floor, one of which was load-bearing; complete renovation of the kitchen) was no big deal and that the whole thing would take them two weeks (hah!). We hired an architect who drew up plans for a beam that would replace the load-bearing wall.
Demolition on the living room walls began just after Thanksgiving. Since then, it’s been a non-stop barrage of excuses for why they can’t get the beam in. Our house is being supported by temporary support pillars that they put up sometime in December. The plaster in our remaining walls is beginning to crack, and there are either holes or points of weakness on the floor on the second story above where the beam is supposed to go. I’m worried that our house is unstable and dangerous for us to be living in. (Have I mentioned we’re still living here?)
Furthermore, they demoed the kitchen in early January in the hopes that they could at least get that done while they waited on figuring out how to get the living room beam up. The kitchen subfloor is in and some drywall has been put up, but the floor, cabinets, sink, etc still haven’t been put in. The entire ground floor of our house is dust and rubble. They tried to put the beam in yesterday, but it’s warped from sitting outside under a tarp all winter (!!) and in the process of trying to get it in, they dropped it and broke several floorboards in the living room.
We are at our wits’ end and don’t know what to do. My partner doesn’t think we can sue them for breach of contract, because no dates were specified in the contract, though we have text message records of the contractor promising specific timelines. Is there a state board we can report them to? Shout we eat the money we’ve given them (half the cost of the project) and try to hire someone else? We are in Philadelphia, so any location-specific ideas are welcome.
(Apologies if this is missing important details. Home improvement is very much not in my wheelhouse.)
Sounds like the kind of company that would go bankrupt/close down/whatever before you ever got a dime out of them, so I wouldn't expect it to be worth it to try to sue etc.. unless you have free legal representation.
I hope they at least have all the materials at your place so the next team can put them in (cabinets, floors, sink, countertop etc..) otherwise they already spent that money too most likely.
I bet they don't have the cash left for a new beam either, those things are expensive. Obviously do not trust these people ever again, cut your losses, they will never make good on this build.
Your realtor did you a grave disservice and both he and this contractor should be flogged in public as a warning to others, if possible. Not sure how legal this is in Philly tho.
I'd be wanting to get a new beam up ASAP tho, sounds like the current set up is stressing out the rest of the house.
This really sucks and I feel for you both. It happens SO often though. Don't blame yourselves, please.
posted by some loser at 7:33 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
I hope they at least have all the materials at your place so the next team can put them in (cabinets, floors, sink, countertop etc..) otherwise they already spent that money too most likely.
I bet they don't have the cash left for a new beam either, those things are expensive. Obviously do not trust these people ever again, cut your losses, they will never make good on this build.
Your realtor did you a grave disservice and both he and this contractor should be flogged in public as a warning to others, if possible. Not sure how legal this is in Philly tho.
I'd be wanting to get a new beam up ASAP tho, sounds like the current set up is stressing out the rest of the house.
This really sucks and I feel for you both. It happens SO often though. Don't blame yourselves, please.
posted by some loser at 7:33 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
Have you talked to the architect? They should be willing to come look at the temporary shoring to see if it's adequate, or get an engineer if necessary. They may be able to help with negotiations with the contractor as well. I'd also try to get a consultation with a lawyer but they can be hard to find so it might take some time. It sounds like they're doing something they don't have the experience for, rather than actively setting out to scam you.
posted by sepviva at 8:11 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by sepviva at 8:11 AM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
Mr. Corb is an engineer, and this is how I know that the translation of architecture plans to real buildings is generally dependent on an engineer to do said translation. It sounds from here like the architect said “Here is an elegant way you can still do your thing”, expecting that the company you were using would have an engineer on staff to say “Ah, the load bearing is X, we will need something capable of holding Y, this material is reviewed for that.” Like a wood beam - well, what wood beam? What kind of wood? These things all matter. They also should have known not to store the beam outside. My contractor wouldn’t even let me store wood in the garage. A tarp is ludicrously insufficient.
Given the inability of the temporary structures to hold up, I think that the contractors do not have an engineer on staff. They are probably cosmetic contractors that the realtor uses for other work, and may not be aware they aren’t up to scratch. But they are not up to scratch. They are cutting corners on your house and making it uninhabitable because they are not up to the job. I suspect that they realize they are not up to the job, but have already spent at least some of your money and don’t want to eat it.
These people are never going to be able to complete your project and you are justified in asking them why the hell not and what they have done with your money.
posted by corb at 8:45 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Given the inability of the temporary structures to hold up, I think that the contractors do not have an engineer on staff. They are probably cosmetic contractors that the realtor uses for other work, and may not be aware they aren’t up to scratch. But they are not up to scratch. They are cutting corners on your house and making it uninhabitable because they are not up to the job. I suspect that they realize they are not up to the job, but have already spent at least some of your money and don’t want to eat it.
These people are never going to be able to complete your project and you are justified in asking them why the hell not and what they have done with your money.
posted by corb at 8:45 AM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
I suspect that you're going to need to find a new contractor to take over, as others have noted, but one step you should do first/in parallel, is file a complaint against the contractor with your state's licensing agency. Where I live, that process has a mandatory 30day wait after sending "notice of intent to file a complaint" before you can actually file a complaint. That 30 days gives the contractor -- who does *not* want complaints against their license -- some tiem to rectify the situation. But it also means that you should get that process going now while you are lining up another company to fix the problem.
posted by janell at 9:34 AM on March 30, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by janell at 9:34 AM on March 30, 2018 [7 favorites]
Removal of a load-bearing wall requires a building permit, which is the responsibility of the contractor to obtain. Has a city inspector signed off on the current temporary set up? If not, I would contact your builder and ask to see the permit and say you will request a site visit. This may motivate them to return the money to you but I doubt it, still worth a shot IMHO. I would not allow them access to your property again, a bad contractor can do a lot of structural damage and cover it with pretty finishes and be long gone when your house shows the damage. As said above, lawyer up but don't expect to get your money back, and expect to pay a lot more for a competent contractor to fix the mistakes (it is only fair they charge more because they have two jobs, fixing all the problems caused by the shoddy contractor and then the actual true cost of construction by competent staff). I'm sorry you are going through this. What a nightmare!
posted by saucysault at 11:55 AM on March 30, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 11:55 AM on March 30, 2018 [5 favorites]
Wow, that is so not OK. I used to work for a renovator and we never had a ceiling held up by temp-walls for more than about two days. They're temporary for a reason. Get a new contractor immediately. Fire this guy and take him to small claims court for the cost increase associated with someone else having to fix this guy's mess. There are tons of contractors who can do this work for you.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:56 PM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:56 PM on March 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
By the way, it's totally standard to use temp walls. What you do when you take out a load-bearing wall in a typical single-family residential building is:
LVLs can be left outside under a tarp, but not for months and months. (There are special outdoor-rated LVLs but that's not what we're talking about here.) And if for whatever reason someone manages to fuck up an LVL, a new one is only as far away as the nearest lumber yard; any real lumber yard stocks them in several of the most commonly-used sizes, just like any other lumber.
I have no idea what is going on with your contractor but what they're doing is totally unacceptable. Something has happened to their business and they're no longer able to complete jobs. Sue them in small claims before they run out of money.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:04 PM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
- Strip the wall down to the studs.
- Build temporary walls about 3' to either side of the wall. They just go from the flooring to the ceiling plaster, they don't tie into the house's framing in any way.
- Remove the original wall.
- Install posts to support the new beam.
- Cut ceiling joists as necessary where new beam needs to go.
- Install the new beam, typically some kind of LVL (laminated veneer lumber) specced to whatever the building code requires. An engineer is not generally necessary, requirements are pretty clear-cut.
- Remove temporary walls.
- Plaster and paint.
LVLs can be left outside under a tarp, but not for months and months. (There are special outdoor-rated LVLs but that's not what we're talking about here.) And if for whatever reason someone manages to fuck up an LVL, a new one is only as far away as the nearest lumber yard; any real lumber yard stocks them in several of the most commonly-used sizes, just like any other lumber.
I have no idea what is going on with your contractor but what they're doing is totally unacceptable. Something has happened to their business and they're no longer able to complete jobs. Sue them in small claims before they run out of money.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:04 PM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
IAAA, IANYA
Talk to the Architect about a reputable Contractor to finish the job. We tend to know who is good for a particular type of job based on past experiences.
A good performance bond on a job like this would solve lots of issues. If the Contractor doesn't perform in the allotted time*, you call in the bonding company who makes you financially whole.
Architects do quite a bit more than draw up plans, for not a lot of money they will administer the Construction Contract and give you "front end specs" that will prevent predicaments like this. You might talk to your Architect about being involved in this aspect of your project should you end up having to hire a new Contractor. We'll come out to the project at regular intervals and make sure things are being done per the contract, including that materials are properly stored, etc.
Corb,
We can and do figure simple beams etc, but aren't above paying our PE buddy a fair rate for a check on our calculations either. This would be transparent to the client.
*ALWAYS have a deadline - the "Time of construction". Don't feel terrible, I had a state University tell me they didn't want a deadline on a re-roofing project because "they didn't want to rush the Contractor and get shoddy work." My argument of "that's why I am here, to observe the work and make sure it meets the terms of the Contract" fell on deaf ears. A year and a half later, the Contractor wrapped up what should have taken no more than 4 months. They have seen the error of their ways and repented.
posted by rudd135 at 5:20 PM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
Talk to the Architect about a reputable Contractor to finish the job. We tend to know who is good for a particular type of job based on past experiences.
A good performance bond on a job like this would solve lots of issues. If the Contractor doesn't perform in the allotted time*, you call in the bonding company who makes you financially whole.
Architects do quite a bit more than draw up plans, for not a lot of money they will administer the Construction Contract and give you "front end specs" that will prevent predicaments like this. You might talk to your Architect about being involved in this aspect of your project should you end up having to hire a new Contractor. We'll come out to the project at regular intervals and make sure things are being done per the contract, including that materials are properly stored, etc.
Corb,
We can and do figure simple beams etc, but aren't above paying our PE buddy a fair rate for a check on our calculations either. This would be transparent to the client.
*ALWAYS have a deadline - the "Time of construction". Don't feel terrible, I had a state University tell me they didn't want a deadline on a re-roofing project because "they didn't want to rush the Contractor and get shoddy work." My argument of "that's why I am here, to observe the work and make sure it meets the terms of the Contract" fell on deaf ears. A year and a half later, the Contractor wrapped up what should have taken no more than 4 months. They have seen the error of their ways and repented.
posted by rudd135 at 5:20 PM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
While yes, this definitely required a building permit, I have dealt with Philly's building inspectors and would highly recommend against involving them in any way if you can help it. The only action they can take is issuing a violation, shutting the job down, or declaring the building structurally unsound and not letting you back in. None of those things will make fixing this easier.
posted by sepviva at 7:42 PM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by sepviva at 7:42 PM on March 30, 2018 [2 favorites]
We lived through a similar nightmare. (Check out my posts from 2010-2012 if you like, though I didn't post at some of the worst moments.)
You don't want someone who doesn't know what they're doing to be building your house. It's not safe, and you'll end up re-doing the work. They've amply demonstrated that they don't know what they're doing, so I'd say, start working on how to fire them while losing the least money possible.
Focus on getting your house in livable condition as quickly as possible. It can be easy to focus on the conflict with the incompetent builder and handling that right. We proceeded super carefully with our firing process and incurred extra costs and lost time in the process. I wish we'd been a bit faster and more bold about it. E.g., this whole "is it structurally unsound?" question. I think you can safely say "these people don't know how to install a single beam, even with plans, and things are cracking, so yeah, we should assume it may well not be." Don't waste $350 on a structural engineer to tell you if it is or isn't. Consider proceeding directly to getting new contractors out there to bid and meanwhile give you their impression of the situation's safety. Consider sleeping elsewhere; buildings do collapse.
Everyone will tell you to get a lawyer. We wasted a boatload* of money on legal fees that got us nothing. (*How many dollar bills does it take to fill a boat? We might've wasted a few boatloads.) Think really carefully about when / whether / for what you need a lawyer.
Is this contractor going to bully you? The second there was a whiff of conflict, ours demanded a huge payment and filed a mechanics lien despite having paid them like 4x the value of the work done already, and despite (theoretically) being open to discussing further payment if they could itemize the work performed. Something to consider. They may be complete scam artists, so if you start to feel crazy, it's probably them not you. (We wasted a lot of time asking "is this just the way the business works?" and "who are we to question their building expertise?" If something feels off or runs contrary to what all the websites on that topic suggest, it's probably that they aren't doing it right.)
The best money we spent was on a person who worked as an expert witness in construction defect cases. He knew how the system works and all of the possible pathways to getting some money back; he knew just how bad the contractors work thus far was; he had seen a lot of these kind of conflicts and had advice about how to handle ourselves; and he gave us referrals to competent tradespeople. We found him through the attorney.
In CA, there is the Contractors State License Board. They were useless for us during the crisis, but eventually (like two years post facto), they revoked the contractor's license.
Look into the contractor's bond. You might be able to get that. Expect them to fight your attempt to get money from them (e.g., to claim you missed relevant deadlines). One bond company was a jerk to us. The other got the roofing contractor to pay us what he owed (so that they wouldn't have to).
We ended up in court against our will, so we countersued everyone and did get a settlement from the realtor who referred the yahoos we worked with. You could consider that.
But circling back to my above point, get your house back before you think about legal action or license board petitions or anything else like that. We were in a multifront war for years, and it would've been better to take it step by step. That said, do keep an eye on the statute of limitations.
So sorry this happened, good luck.
posted by slidell at 10:58 AM on March 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
You don't want someone who doesn't know what they're doing to be building your house. It's not safe, and you'll end up re-doing the work. They've amply demonstrated that they don't know what they're doing, so I'd say, start working on how to fire them while losing the least money possible.
Focus on getting your house in livable condition as quickly as possible. It can be easy to focus on the conflict with the incompetent builder and handling that right. We proceeded super carefully with our firing process and incurred extra costs and lost time in the process. I wish we'd been a bit faster and more bold about it. E.g., this whole "is it structurally unsound?" question. I think you can safely say "these people don't know how to install a single beam, even with plans, and things are cracking, so yeah, we should assume it may well not be." Don't waste $350 on a structural engineer to tell you if it is or isn't. Consider proceeding directly to getting new contractors out there to bid and meanwhile give you their impression of the situation's safety. Consider sleeping elsewhere; buildings do collapse.
Everyone will tell you to get a lawyer. We wasted a boatload* of money on legal fees that got us nothing. (*How many dollar bills does it take to fill a boat? We might've wasted a few boatloads.) Think really carefully about when / whether / for what you need a lawyer.
Is this contractor going to bully you? The second there was a whiff of conflict, ours demanded a huge payment and filed a mechanics lien despite having paid them like 4x the value of the work done already, and despite (theoretically) being open to discussing further payment if they could itemize the work performed. Something to consider. They may be complete scam artists, so if you start to feel crazy, it's probably them not you. (We wasted a lot of time asking "is this just the way the business works?" and "who are we to question their building expertise?" If something feels off or runs contrary to what all the websites on that topic suggest, it's probably that they aren't doing it right.)
The best money we spent was on a person who worked as an expert witness in construction defect cases. He knew how the system works and all of the possible pathways to getting some money back; he knew just how bad the contractors work thus far was; he had seen a lot of these kind of conflicts and had advice about how to handle ourselves; and he gave us referrals to competent tradespeople. We found him through the attorney.
In CA, there is the Contractors State License Board. They were useless for us during the crisis, but eventually (like two years post facto), they revoked the contractor's license.
Look into the contractor's bond. You might be able to get that. Expect them to fight your attempt to get money from them (e.g., to claim you missed relevant deadlines). One bond company was a jerk to us. The other got the roofing contractor to pay us what he owed (so that they wouldn't have to).
We ended up in court against our will, so we countersued everyone and did get a settlement from the realtor who referred the yahoos we worked with. You could consider that.
But circling back to my above point, get your house back before you think about legal action or license board petitions or anything else like that. We were in a multifront war for years, and it would've been better to take it step by step. That said, do keep an eye on the statute of limitations.
So sorry this happened, good luck.
posted by slidell at 10:58 AM on March 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Advice for people thinking about hiring a contractor in the future:
1. Get quotes from at least three contractors specifying the details and the cost. What they propose doing will probably vary a bit, as will the cost.
2. Before signing a contract, contact your state's licensing agency for building contractors. You want to make sure the contractors are licensed, bonded, and insured. Then, ask the contractors to show their current proof of all three. Copy the information in case you need to take action.
3. Ideally, the contract will have completion dates to ensure progress is made on the job. That gives you some recourse if they fall behind.
4. The general rule of thumb for payment is: 1/3 up front, 1/3 when the job is halfway done, final third upon completion/inspector approving the work.
If you think about it, people who are good at managing money tend to go into white-collar work. The skillset that goes with building trades does not include financial management. This is why so many contractors go broke, sometimes more than once. They're a lot better at construction than managing cash flows. When they run into a cash crunch, they'll need a payment from one job to buy materials for another job. Pretty soon they're endlessly chasing new work/cash, unable to afford the time or materials to finish earlier jobs. Eventually, they get their license yanked or go bankrupt. And eventually, some of them go back into business again, this time as a different legal entity so their past doesn't catch up with them.
Tl;dr: when it comes to having work done on one's home, the homeowner has to be really vigilant about who they hire.
posted by Lunaloon at 9:57 AM on April 2, 2018
1. Get quotes from at least three contractors specifying the details and the cost. What they propose doing will probably vary a bit, as will the cost.
2. Before signing a contract, contact your state's licensing agency for building contractors. You want to make sure the contractors are licensed, bonded, and insured. Then, ask the contractors to show their current proof of all three. Copy the information in case you need to take action.
3. Ideally, the contract will have completion dates to ensure progress is made on the job. That gives you some recourse if they fall behind.
4. The general rule of thumb for payment is: 1/3 up front, 1/3 when the job is halfway done, final third upon completion/inspector approving the work.
If you think about it, people who are good at managing money tend to go into white-collar work. The skillset that goes with building trades does not include financial management. This is why so many contractors go broke, sometimes more than once. They're a lot better at construction than managing cash flows. When they run into a cash crunch, they'll need a payment from one job to buy materials for another job. Pretty soon they're endlessly chasing new work/cash, unable to afford the time or materials to finish earlier jobs. Eventually, they get their license yanked or go bankrupt. And eventually, some of them go back into business again, this time as a different legal entity so their past doesn't catch up with them.
Tl;dr: when it comes to having work done on one's home, the homeowner has to be really vigilant about who they hire.
posted by Lunaloon at 9:57 AM on April 2, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Dashy at 7:32 AM on March 30, 2018 [3 favorites]