How do you want me to prod you to answer my invitation?
March 25, 2018 4:54 AM Subscribe
I'm happy to make the first friendship move, but I don't know if you're ignoring me on purpose to send a soft no or your computer was broken for three days.
It is my experience that if I want friendships I am going to have to be the one, at least at first, to put a lot of energy into making the first move with people, being the inviter, etc. Sitting back and waiting for my natural charisma to attract people to me doesn't work.
So I do a lot of first moves and inviting. I don't mind (much) when people don't pick up what I'm putting out there, it's a numbers game (just like dating, only for friendships).
Sometimes though, people I know like me, that I totally vibe with in person, don't answer my message/text/email and I feel dorky sending the "I don't know if you got my text" text. Probably people didn't see the text, or were very busy when they glanced at it and forgot to check back, or needed to look at their calendar and then it fell out of their short term memory, or their phone was lost or whatever.
I can take the soft no of multiple non-replies, but I need a script for "I don't know if you got my earlier text" that leaves me feeling cool and not needy.
It is my experience that if I want friendships I am going to have to be the one, at least at first, to put a lot of energy into making the first move with people, being the inviter, etc. Sitting back and waiting for my natural charisma to attract people to me doesn't work.
So I do a lot of first moves and inviting. I don't mind (much) when people don't pick up what I'm putting out there, it's a numbers game (just like dating, only for friendships).
Sometimes though, people I know like me, that I totally vibe with in person, don't answer my message/text/email and I feel dorky sending the "I don't know if you got my text" text. Probably people didn't see the text, or were very busy when they glanced at it and forgot to check back, or needed to look at their calendar and then it fell out of their short term memory, or their phone was lost or whatever.
I can take the soft no of multiple non-replies, but I need a script for "I don't know if you got my earlier text" that leaves me feeling cool and not needy.
It's not you, it's text.
It's not you, it's people. Or, it's both. If you invite someone to a thing, and they can't be bothered to say yes or no, assume no. Let them miss out on a good thing, and next time they will respond earlier.
Probably people didn't see the text, or were very busy when they glanced at it and forgot to check back, or needed to look at their calendar and then it fell out of their short term memory, or their phone was lost or whatever.
Just like in dating, if you do all the emotional labor from day one, there's no reason for the other person to put in any effort.
posted by headnsouth at 6:08 AM on March 25, 2018 [11 favorites]
It's not you, it's people. Or, it's both. If you invite someone to a thing, and they can't be bothered to say yes or no, assume no. Let them miss out on a good thing, and next time they will respond earlier.
Probably people didn't see the text, or were very busy when they glanced at it and forgot to check back, or needed to look at their calendar and then it fell out of their short term memory, or their phone was lost or whatever.
Just like in dating, if you do all the emotional labor from day one, there's no reason for the other person to put in any effort.
posted by headnsouth at 6:08 AM on March 25, 2018 [11 favorites]
If I genuinely think they missed the text, I just resend it. If I get no response, well, that in itself is your answer. If I don't think they missed the text and are simply choosing to ignore me for whatever reason, I can take a hint and life goes on.
posted by Jubey at 6:13 AM on March 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 6:13 AM on March 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
Yeah, sometimes people really do forget. Chances are much better they actually haven't though. People who say they had phone trouble are probably lying to save face. People generally don't like confrontation and text is pretty easy to ignore. I suggest you take a tact from dating - put the onus of setting up something on the other person if you really think you have a genuine connection. While one person has to initiate, there has to be some give and take. It can't be you giving everything Everytime.
posted by Aranquis at 6:17 AM on March 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Aranquis at 6:17 AM on March 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think it's best to just assume that people got the text unless you've a reason to think otherwise. But feel free, at a later point, to invite them to something else if (you feel like it). If they don't respond to the second invitation then it's almost certainly not worth following up. People often just ignore stuff because of anxiety/laziness/being in a bad mood etc, and I don't think it's worth trying to make sure of what's happening at the time, but I also don't think that a single case of someone being crap at getting back to you should be read as indicating anything in particular. Obviously, individual levels of tolerance for this kind of behaviour will vary, and there's no obligation to follow up an ignored invitation at all.
posted by howfar at 6:24 AM on March 25, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by howfar at 6:24 AM on March 25, 2018 [14 favorites]
Yes to the above - "no answer" means EITHER "I'm ignoring you" OR "I never received/saw the message at all".
Without further evidence, you have absolutely no basis to choose one or the other of the above as your assumption about what actually happened. Obviously your next step is going to be wildly different based on which of the two it was, and thus the innate disadvantage of these forms of communication.
See the General's Dilemma for a classic exposition of how this issue affects decision-making. Both texting & email are an "unreliable link" in that sense. Whereas face-to-face or a phone conversation is a "reliable link". For real communication to happen, you MUST have a reliable link. This the massive advantage of using those forms of communication that instantaneously give you feedback about whether or not your communication was received and understood.
posted by flug at 6:35 AM on March 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
Without further evidence, you have absolutely no basis to choose one or the other of the above as your assumption about what actually happened. Obviously your next step is going to be wildly different based on which of the two it was, and thus the innate disadvantage of these forms of communication.
See the General's Dilemma for a classic exposition of how this issue affects decision-making. Both texting & email are an "unreliable link" in that sense. Whereas face-to-face or a phone conversation is a "reliable link". For real communication to happen, you MUST have a reliable link. This the massive advantage of using those forms of communication that instantaneously give you feedback about whether or not your communication was received and understood.
posted by flug at 6:35 AM on March 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
Young people tend to text, so maybe that's the default, but most people are receiving texts on their phone, messages on facebook, email, phone calls, and maybe a couple other communications platforms. If a person is busy or distracted, a text is easily overlooked. Send it again, if no response, move on.
posted by theora55 at 6:42 AM on March 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 6:42 AM on March 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm one of those people who has to be prodded. It's so great when people reach out a second time via a different medium. Sometimes I really didn't see the first text/fb message/email, but for the rest of the time when I'm just being a shitty person, it helps me save face.
posted by galvanized unicorn at 6:55 AM on March 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by galvanized unicorn at 6:55 AM on March 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
Face to face is the gold standard for emotionally significant communication, but a phone conversation will do at a pinch.
Hate to be the dissenting voice here, but I think an unwanted phone call could make you appear overbearing and scare them off entirely.
posted by lecorbeau at 7:17 AM on March 25, 2018 [41 favorites]
Hate to be the dissenting voice here, but I think an unwanted phone call could make you appear overbearing and scare them off entirely.
posted by lecorbeau at 7:17 AM on March 25, 2018 [41 favorites]
For someone you aren’t friends with yet? You can’t send this text. You have to just tolerate the indefinite silence and see if you hear from them or see them in a few weeks.
Once they are a super solid friend: “Yo nudge nudge bae”
posted by amaire at 7:25 AM on March 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
Once they are a super solid friend: “Yo nudge nudge bae”
posted by amaire at 7:25 AM on March 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
To answer your actual question - I send pretty much the exact same text a second time, without mentioning that I’ve already asked once. This lets them know you assume they never got your first text, which is what they probably would tell you happened even if they did get it.
Alternately, make a vague reference to the first text but act like it’s normal for people not to respond right away.
Example:
1st text: hi, do you wanna get coffee or something on Friday?
2a. Hey, would you like to meet for coffee tomorrow?
or
2b. Hey, did you figure out if you can meet for coffee tomorrow?
posted by MexicanYenta at 7:26 AM on March 25, 2018 [12 favorites]
Alternately, make a vague reference to the first text but act like it’s normal for people not to respond right away.
Example:
1st text: hi, do you wanna get coffee or something on Friday?
2a. Hey, would you like to meet for coffee tomorrow?
or
2b. Hey, did you figure out if you can meet for coffee tomorrow?
posted by MexicanYenta at 7:26 AM on March 25, 2018 [12 favorites]
I’m also old. Phone calls mean I have to decide in the moment, which is uncomfortable. Texts are too easy to forget about (though I personally always send at least some answer immediately). I prefer email because then it’s sitting in my inbox reminding me. But this could be completely different for someone younger.
But my rule on chasing people down is one reminder. After that, you’re teaching the person that you’ll do all the work.
Since the chances that people didn’t get your texts are close to zero, I’d say something like “I haven’t heard back. Have you decided if you’re up for xyz?” If they don’t respond to that, I’d drop it.
In usual MeFi style, I expect someone else will soon come up with much better wording than mine.
posted by FencingGal at 7:32 AM on March 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
But my rule on chasing people down is one reminder. After that, you’re teaching the person that you’ll do all the work.
Since the chances that people didn’t get your texts are close to zero, I’d say something like “I haven’t heard back. Have you decided if you’re up for xyz?” If they don’t respond to that, I’d drop it.
In usual MeFi style, I expect someone else will soon come up with much better wording than mine.
posted by FencingGal at 7:32 AM on March 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
Yes to the above - "no answer" means EITHER "I'm ignoring you" OR "I never received/saw the message at all".
OR I saw the text when I was out with friends/racing between things and it would have been rude/impossible to answer at the time and then a thousand things came up and it slipped my mind. As a person who is sometimes lax about responding to texts, I very much appreciate a nudge.
MexicanYenta's scripts would work on me, but you could also just send me something unrelated, which would then put my eyes on the original text, remind me that I have been horribly rude, and provoke an apology and some plan-making. Personally, I respond well to pictures of cats, but you can tailor this approach to your audience.
posted by dizziest at 7:46 AM on March 25, 2018 [22 favorites]
OR I saw the text when I was out with friends/racing between things and it would have been rude/impossible to answer at the time and then a thousand things came up and it slipped my mind. As a person who is sometimes lax about responding to texts, I very much appreciate a nudge.
MexicanYenta's scripts would work on me, but you could also just send me something unrelated, which would then put my eyes on the original text, remind me that I have been horribly rude, and provoke an apology and some plan-making. Personally, I respond well to pictures of cats, but you can tailor this approach to your audience.
posted by dizziest at 7:46 AM on March 25, 2018 [22 favorites]
Just want to say, wow, if someone who wanted to be my friend made a voice call to my phone number I'd be completely freaked out, please don't follow that advice. It's 2018 and we finally have enough other options that nobody uses the phone, and hooray for that.
posted by potrzebie at 7:48 AM on March 25, 2018 [37 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 7:48 AM on March 25, 2018 [37 favorites]
Seconding everything that dizziest said above! I very rarely genuinely ignore a text out of malice/passive-aggressiveness, but I get a *ton* of texts every day and things do just slip down the list and get buried if I can't answer right away. I am not a bad person, but there's a lot going on and sometimes I do just genuinely lose track of things.
I would absolutely welcome a gentle nudge via text, as I would also welcome some "slack" without the assumption that "Oh, I didn't see that before" is a blatant lie. I would never think that one gentle nudge is aggressive or weird or overbearing.
Also I like the cat picture idea!
posted by mccxxiii at 7:52 AM on March 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
I would absolutely welcome a gentle nudge via text, as I would also welcome some "slack" without the assumption that "Oh, I didn't see that before" is a blatant lie. I would never think that one gentle nudge is aggressive or weird or overbearing.
Also I like the cat picture idea!
posted by mccxxiii at 7:52 AM on March 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
I seem to be in a friend-expanding period right now and have been on both sides of this. I've used the "send something cute and unrelated" thing for a new-ish friend who's a little scattered sometimes and it works well. One person used the phone to call me to ask me to lunch for the first time and I was kind of freaked out by it, though I admired her chutzpah; I later made a comment about having minor phone phobia and we've switched to texting (or face to face, but we run into each other a lot). Another potential friend and I are using email but having long gaps between messages and just doing a lot of "omg sorry! Things have been so busy!" which can go both ways -- I could see not getting a response and following up with something, "Things have been so busy that I didn't follow up -- would you want to do the thing on the day?" Not quite sure why that sound less needy to me, but something about taking some of the responsibility for not following up implies (to me at least) that you've got other stuff going on and haven't been waiting by the phone for their text (even if you have).
posted by lazuli at 8:00 AM on March 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by lazuli at 8:00 AM on March 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
I’m 47 and my friends call me if a) there’s been a death b) someone has cancer, c) divorce just became imminent or d) we’ve texted first to agree it’s a good time.
For new friends I think 2 texts is fine and then after that I’m aware the planning is on me next. I like both the “gentle repeat” and the cute cat picture approaches above.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:03 AM on March 25, 2018 [16 favorites]
For new friends I think 2 texts is fine and then after that I’m aware the planning is on me next. I like both the “gentle repeat” and the cute cat picture approaches above.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:03 AM on March 25, 2018 [16 favorites]
Depending if it's an informal get together or an event:
"Not sure if you saw my text, but if you're free on Friday I'd still love to grab a drink! If not, maybe some other time."
"Just buying tickets for the play on Friday, are you interested in coming?"
posted by beyond_pink at 8:44 AM on March 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
"Not sure if you saw my text, but if you're free on Friday I'd still love to grab a drink! If not, maybe some other time."
"Just buying tickets for the play on Friday, are you interested in coming?"
posted by beyond_pink at 8:44 AM on March 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
I really do think a lot of this is "people use different media different ways." For me, and for a lot of other people, a text is kind of like somebody stopping by your office; if you happen to be available to respond in the moment, you do, but otherwise that message is just gone. (Same for FB messages.) I would never sit down at the end of the day and see if there were any texts I hadn't responded to. But I think there are people who do just that.
I don't really like the pretense of "did you maybe not receive my previous message" but my annoyance is only 10% at the sender and 90% at me for not answering the previous message! So I would just ask again with no ref to the previous message, or referred to only implicitly: the "Hey so did you want to ____ tomorrow?" approach. I'm a grownup, I can handle the truth we both know, which is that you wrote me and I didn't respond yet!
posted by escabeche at 8:44 AM on March 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don't really like the pretense of "did you maybe not receive my previous message" but my annoyance is only 10% at the sender and 90% at me for not answering the previous message! So I would just ask again with no ref to the previous message, or referred to only implicitly: the "Hey so did you want to ____ tomorrow?" approach. I'm a grownup, I can handle the truth we both know, which is that you wrote me and I didn't respond yet!
posted by escabeche at 8:44 AM on March 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
I like to frame things as A/B choices whenever possible. In the case of a prodding message, I’d say something like, “Hey, just pinging you about coffee on Friday. Do you think you can make it, or do you already have stuff planned?” It gives people a graceful way to decline without feeling like a jerk.
If someone ignores a message like that, though, then maybe they are a jerk—or, at least, not very good at reciprocating. The key here would be that, after a couple of reasonable attempts, you should not feel like you have to put in more effort than you’re getting out. You don’t have to cut people off or be like “Fine!!” but you can certainly put them in the “fair weather friend” group with whom you get the occasional coffee, and devote your energy to those people who reciprocate.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:40 AM on March 25, 2018 [8 favorites]
If someone ignores a message like that, though, then maybe they are a jerk—or, at least, not very good at reciprocating. The key here would be that, after a couple of reasonable attempts, you should not feel like you have to put in more effort than you’re getting out. You don’t have to cut people off or be like “Fine!!” but you can certainly put them in the “fair weather friend” group with whom you get the occasional coffee, and devote your energy to those people who reciprocate.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:40 AM on March 25, 2018 [8 favorites]
People got the message. It's very rare they didn't. Hell, my phone tells me if it didn't send a text and my e-mail tells me if it couldn't deliver an e-mail. Whether or not they paid attention to it, or wanted to but SQUIRREL!, who knows. But I for one am tired of making up excuses in my head as to why someone didn't bother to respond to me, and I'm tired of nagging if I don't absolutely have to nag. Fuck spending the emotional energy on someone who doesn't get back to you and doesn't care so much. You can't play tennis without someone bouncing the ball back to you and you can't be friends with someone who's not bothering to be a friend back. You have no way to know if someone would appreciate a nag text (like some here) or if they are just passively ignoring you so as not to have to be blunt and mean (and they would not). One way or another, you tried. It's up to them. Leave it up to them. If someone wants to, they will, and if they don't, they don't.
I admit, I've not responded on occasion if someone asked me out. I'm terrified to tell a guy no in case he turns out to be a closet nutjob and might go ballistic on me, so I...didn't write back. I felt shitty and awful about it, but I was too afraid of the consequences of being honest. I would like to hope those stakes aren't going on with the folks you're attending to befriend, but those issues have got to get triggered for some people anyway.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:42 AM on March 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
I admit, I've not responded on occasion if someone asked me out. I'm terrified to tell a guy no in case he turns out to be a closet nutjob and might go ballistic on me, so I...didn't write back. I felt shitty and awful about it, but I was too afraid of the consequences of being honest. I would like to hope those stakes aren't going on with the folks you're attending to befriend, but those issues have got to get triggered for some people anyway.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:42 AM on March 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Do I forget / not get around to responding to things sometimes? Yes.
Do I forget stuff I'm actually excited about, including people I thought were cool and I'd actively like to get to know? NO.
One reminder ("hey not sure you got my text, concert is this Thursday if you'd like to come" is fine just so you can be sure they actually got it. Beyond that, meh.
Phone calls are fine for established friends, a bit awkward for trying to make a friend.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:14 AM on March 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Do I forget stuff I'm actually excited about, including people I thought were cool and I'd actively like to get to know? NO.
One reminder ("hey not sure you got my text, concert is this Thursday if you'd like to come" is fine just so you can be sure they actually got it. Beyond that, meh.
Phone calls are fine for established friends, a bit awkward for trying to make a friend.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:14 AM on March 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
It may not be that they missed it/didn't receive it. Sometimes I get messages, I look at them but I don't have the time to think about it, so I move on and then I forget to ever come back to it. I think people are correct that you never forget something you're super excited about, but if it's a new friendship, you're not invested yet, so yes, it's easy for it to slip your mind.
Anyway, you seem to have a healthy attitude about this and not taking friendship rejection too hard. Good for you - everyone on the planet goes through it and it's just life.
So I'd probably just follow-up with "Hey, just wanted to make sure you saw this. If you're interested, let me know!" If they don't respond, there's your answer. If they respond, "Oops, I meant to respond to you earlier" then yay. If it's an invite for a specific event and thus you kind of do need to know, I'd say "Just making plans for that concert Friday. If you're interested, please let me know ASAP - thanks!" And then if you don't get a response within a day, plan on them not coming.
Also, text is fine. No one calls for something like this.
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:09 AM on March 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Anyway, you seem to have a healthy attitude about this and not taking friendship rejection too hard. Good for you - everyone on the planet goes through it and it's just life.
So I'd probably just follow-up with "Hey, just wanted to make sure you saw this. If you're interested, let me know!" If they don't respond, there's your answer. If they respond, "Oops, I meant to respond to you earlier" then yay. If it's an invite for a specific event and thus you kind of do need to know, I'd say "Just making plans for that concert Friday. If you're interested, please let me know ASAP - thanks!" And then if you don't get a response within a day, plan on them not coming.
Also, text is fine. No one calls for something like this.
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:09 AM on March 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you invite someone to do something, and they don't reply, unless you are comfortable always being the person to (a) initiate (b) plan (c) prod assume they are not interested and move on to someone who will put in at least the 10 seconds of effort it takes to acknowledge your invitation.
They may, in actuality, BE interested, but just because someone is interested in being friends doesn't mean they actually have the capacity to carry out the actions of friendship with you at this time. Maybe later they will! But I would recommend focusing your energy on people who, today, are up for reciprocating that time, effort and bravery you're putting into widening your friend circle.
I find that my level of tolerance for being the friendship-organizer changes based on how busy I am, how much energy I have and whether I want to feel supported and/or just want to have fun conversations. Sometimes, it IS worth prodding, and I have definitely been the organizer-friend before! However I noticed that when I got busy, or sick, or stressed, the friendships where I'd been the sole initiator fell away, and today, I'd rather spend a nice afternoon alone with a good book than with someone who is only going to hang out if I have the idea, do the planning, reach out to them, and ask twice. YMMV!
posted by rogerrogerwhatsyourrvectorvicto at 11:26 AM on March 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
They may, in actuality, BE interested, but just because someone is interested in being friends doesn't mean they actually have the capacity to carry out the actions of friendship with you at this time. Maybe later they will! But I would recommend focusing your energy on people who, today, are up for reciprocating that time, effort and bravery you're putting into widening your friend circle.
I find that my level of tolerance for being the friendship-organizer changes based on how busy I am, how much energy I have and whether I want to feel supported and/or just want to have fun conversations. Sometimes, it IS worth prodding, and I have definitely been the organizer-friend before! However I noticed that when I got busy, or sick, or stressed, the friendships where I'd been the sole initiator fell away, and today, I'd rather spend a nice afternoon alone with a good book than with someone who is only going to hang out if I have the idea, do the planning, reach out to them, and ask twice. YMMV!
posted by rogerrogerwhatsyourrvectorvicto at 11:26 AM on March 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm 39, and literally the last time I know in person (ie not a company, not IT at work, and also not someone who was not my parents, because, well parents) called me it was because someone literally died. Even now when my dad accidentally butt-dials me I have a small panic wondering if it's just a butt-dial or something worse. Please dont call randomly. I wouldn't answer anyway.
After the first text I'd follow with a simple 'hey, coffee on thursday? lemme know.' No answer before wednesday night is understood to mean 'no thanks' and I'm moving on.
posted by cgg at 11:47 AM on March 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
After the first text I'd follow with a simple 'hey, coffee on thursday? lemme know.' No answer before wednesday night is understood to mean 'no thanks' and I'm moving on.
posted by cgg at 11:47 AM on March 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
My issue is this -- I look at my texts as they come in, which means I might be in the grocery store line or at the post office or whatever, and that's not a good time for me to figure out whether or not I'm free to do XYZ (in part because I use a physical datebook and I usually don't have it at hand if I am out). So I can't commit to something because my life is such that I know I need to check and see if I am free. And sometimes I forgot to check -- what I actually try to do because I think it's rude to leave people hanging is text back, "maybe, I have to check my calendar! Nudge me if I don't get back to you!" because I sincerely want them to nudge me -- so for me, email is more reliable for making plans, because I can star your email and get back to it in a way I cannot with texts. So I would try email instead?
(As far as calling goes, I am 42 and I talk to my parents, my grandma, the little kids in my life, and a few old friends with whom I have an established Phone Chat Habit. Having said that, while I might be taken aback if someone I wasn't good friends with called me [because it feels a little pushy], and as much as I like to text, the phone IS a useful communication tool when used correctly and I think a lot of people would have less fraught interpersonal relationships if we used it a little bit more.)
posted by Countess Sandwich at 12:06 PM on March 25, 2018
(As far as calling goes, I am 42 and I talk to my parents, my grandma, the little kids in my life, and a few old friends with whom I have an established Phone Chat Habit. Having said that, while I might be taken aback if someone I wasn't good friends with called me [because it feels a little pushy], and as much as I like to text, the phone IS a useful communication tool when used correctly and I think a lot of people would have less fraught interpersonal relationships if we used it a little bit more.)
posted by Countess Sandwich at 12:06 PM on March 25, 2018
Sometimes being invited out makes me internally panic in a way that I think is actually kind of common. I'm aware that I generally come off as quite socially confident-- but that's only because I only go out when I feel confident. In truth, a lot of the time, I'm rather socially anxious, but because I hide those times, I think people sometimes assume I'm brushing them off when really I'm mildly afraid to hang out with them. Maybe I can help explain what's happening with me, which will help you understand how best to hack my personality flaws, and since I think my mechanism is kind of common, it might help with your new friends too.
Why I ignore texts:
I can be a little moody and as I said, I'm often a little anxious about hangouts in general. If I first read a text when I'm in a mood, I won't reply and might forget to get to it later.
I find it a bit stressful to plan ahead, so if an ask is about a date that's too far in the future, I will procrastinate.
I text quite a lot, so texts sometimes get buried by other texts and then I lose them.
Sometimes I just avoid socializing in general for Reasons, even though I like the specific person and would actually really like to be friends with them.
So personally, I like being invited out more than once, although I do NOT like prodded.
If I miss a text, getting another text that says "Did you see my text?" is, to me, a bad strategy. I feel scolded by messages like these, I feel guilty, I feel like I need to send a GREAT TEXT in response to make up for my failings, trying to write that GREAT TEXT intimidates me, and I avoid it again. Scoldy texts that reference my failings really make me want to avoid the sender forever.
Sending a vague message like "Hey, did you want to hang out soon?" also isn't great for me.
It makes me feel like all the work of scheduling has been just kind of batted over to me, and again, is a text I'll probably kind of avoid, not out of dislike but just because I might not be in a position to make scheduling decisions so I'll procrastinate and then forget. I find that specific pitches for events / times are way more appealing than vague "let's hang" invites.
To me the best strategy would be to message a second time:
(a) using a different platform than the first message (so FB messenger, text, email, whatever), and ideally NOT referencing the missed text.
(b) with a specific pitch, for instance, "Hey I'm hoping to catch "A Wrinkle In Time" this weekend, maybe Saturday at 4, wanna join me?" This would be great- it lets me save face for missing the text, and it's a very specific question that's easy to answer or re-shape ("Yes, I'd love to! I can't at 4 but I could later that evening, or on Sunday, would either of those work?"
I know I am just a lowly jerk who doesn't actually deserve to be coddled for missing your texts. But I promise that once we've hung out a few times, I calm down and then become a fairly great friend who's actually pretty eager to hang out and who will do my half of the labour to make that happen.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 12:35 PM on March 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Why I ignore texts:
I can be a little moody and as I said, I'm often a little anxious about hangouts in general. If I first read a text when I'm in a mood, I won't reply and might forget to get to it later.
I find it a bit stressful to plan ahead, so if an ask is about a date that's too far in the future, I will procrastinate.
I text quite a lot, so texts sometimes get buried by other texts and then I lose them.
Sometimes I just avoid socializing in general for Reasons, even though I like the specific person and would actually really like to be friends with them.
So personally, I like being invited out more than once, although I do NOT like prodded.
If I miss a text, getting another text that says "Did you see my text?" is, to me, a bad strategy. I feel scolded by messages like these, I feel guilty, I feel like I need to send a GREAT TEXT in response to make up for my failings, trying to write that GREAT TEXT intimidates me, and I avoid it again. Scoldy texts that reference my failings really make me want to avoid the sender forever.
Sending a vague message like "Hey, did you want to hang out soon?" also isn't great for me.
It makes me feel like all the work of scheduling has been just kind of batted over to me, and again, is a text I'll probably kind of avoid, not out of dislike but just because I might not be in a position to make scheduling decisions so I'll procrastinate and then forget. I find that specific pitches for events / times are way more appealing than vague "let's hang" invites.
To me the best strategy would be to message a second time:
(a) using a different platform than the first message (so FB messenger, text, email, whatever), and ideally NOT referencing the missed text.
(b) with a specific pitch, for instance, "Hey I'm hoping to catch "A Wrinkle In Time" this weekend, maybe Saturday at 4, wanna join me?" This would be great- it lets me save face for missing the text, and it's a very specific question that's easy to answer or re-shape ("Yes, I'd love to! I can't at 4 but I could later that evening, or on Sunday, would either of those work?"
I know I am just a lowly jerk who doesn't actually deserve to be coddled for missing your texts. But I promise that once we've hung out a few times, I calm down and then become a fairly great friend who's actually pretty eager to hang out and who will do my half of the labour to make that happen.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 12:35 PM on March 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm 43 and mostly friends with people in their late 20s/early 30s. I text someone ONCE after the initial invite, including good friends, then I write off that particular event.
One on one events, informal:
Good friend: "yo, did you fall in a well? do you want to get coffee or what on Friday?" I generally try another mode of communication, e.g. FB messenger if I've texted them or vice versa.
Medium friend: "hey, just checking in to see if you're still available for Friday?" or more obliquely, "I was thinking of trying Joe's Coffee, or do you have someplace else you prefer?"
New friend: I don't text them again, I figure they're not interested enough.
Scheduled events (e.g. dinner party, concert):
"I need to firm up the attendees list, will you be there on Friday?"
oblique: "Do you want to split the cost of a cab to the Justin Bieber concert?"
I agree with those above that say not to call, unless it's an immediate family member or you suspect that grievous bodily harm has come to an extremely good friend.
No one breaks their phone for several days and doesn't get back to someone they'd made plans with. They are lying or so incompetent/rude you don't want to be friends with them anyway.
posted by AFABulous at 12:45 PM on March 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
One on one events, informal:
Good friend: "yo, did you fall in a well? do you want to get coffee or what on Friday?" I generally try another mode of communication, e.g. FB messenger if I've texted them or vice versa.
Medium friend: "hey, just checking in to see if you're still available for Friday?" or more obliquely, "I was thinking of trying Joe's Coffee, or do you have someplace else you prefer?"
New friend: I don't text them again, I figure they're not interested enough.
Scheduled events (e.g. dinner party, concert):
"I need to firm up the attendees list, will you be there on Friday?"
oblique: "Do you want to split the cost of a cab to the Justin Bieber concert?"
I agree with those above that say not to call, unless it's an immediate family member or you suspect that grievous bodily harm has come to an extremely good friend.
No one breaks their phone for several days and doesn't get back to someone they'd made plans with. They are lying or so incompetent/rude you don't want to be friends with them anyway.
posted by AFABulous at 12:45 PM on March 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm only sort-of old, which probably counts as old these days. To me, texts mean one of two things: (1) Newsletter-style FYI, no action required, keeping you in the loop-type things, and (2) I need an answer right now. If I get a "hey, how about coffee" question that's going to need me to check my calendar, etc. and there's no obvious reason the question is urgent, I'm going to make a mental note to check it out and answer later. And then, let's be real, I'm going to forget as life scrolls it off the screen.
Ideally, I'd make an actual note, not just a mental note. If it was really important to me, I would. But making new friends might not qualify, and it doesn't mean I don't like you.
A higher-probability strategy (for me) would be email. That's where I'm sitting down doing business and planning stuff with all my things around me.
posted by ctmf at 12:49 PM on March 25, 2018
Ideally, I'd make an actual note, not just a mental note. If it was really important to me, I would. But making new friends might not qualify, and it doesn't mean I don't like you.
A higher-probability strategy (for me) would be email. That's where I'm sitting down doing business and planning stuff with all my things around me.
posted by ctmf at 12:49 PM on March 25, 2018
"Sometimes though, people I know like me, that I totally vibe with in person, don't answer my message/text/email and I feel dorky sending the "I don't know if you got my text" text. "
I am one of these people, mostly because my life is in disarray and I never get to answer texts and emails within a decent timeframe. By the time I get my crap together it's way too late for me to reply and I feel embarrassed and in the end end up never replying.
I have really appreciated it when people try again without reference to previous texts. Instead of "hey did you get my text" (which makes me feel really guilty and embarrassed) sometimes people just go for hey, wanna hang out? and it helps me save face.
I know it's pathetic but there it is. With time I usually develop friendships where people know I love them but life seems to pass me by very aggressively. These people tend to be comfortable with me reaching out once in a lonnng while. They know I care about them, and I am always there when they need my help for example. I just can't do the keep in touch thing very well.
Anyway, thank you on behalf of disorganized people everywhere. We would have no friends if it weren't for people like you.
posted by Tarumba at 6:27 AM on March 26, 2018
I am one of these people, mostly because my life is in disarray and I never get to answer texts and emails within a decent timeframe. By the time I get my crap together it's way too late for me to reply and I feel embarrassed and in the end end up never replying.
I have really appreciated it when people try again without reference to previous texts. Instead of "hey did you get my text" (which makes me feel really guilty and embarrassed) sometimes people just go for hey, wanna hang out? and it helps me save face.
I know it's pathetic but there it is. With time I usually develop friendships where people know I love them but life seems to pass me by very aggressively. These people tend to be comfortable with me reaching out once in a lonnng while. They know I care about them, and I am always there when they need my help for example. I just can't do the keep in touch thing very well.
Anyway, thank you on behalf of disorganized people everywhere. We would have no friends if it weren't for people like you.
posted by Tarumba at 6:27 AM on March 26, 2018
A few thoughts:
Making new friends as an adult can be a lot harder than as a young person. I have read entire articles about all the reasons for this, perhaps even on MeFi. It might help to realize that you're not alone in your frustrations, and that this is a pretty common experience.
People of all ages seem to have gotten a lot flakier in the last decade (as in, being wishy washy about making solid plans, last minute cancelations, simply not showing up). I have heard speculation as to the reasons for this shift, such as the availability of so many home entertainment options being available in the home (Netflix, games, and being able to sort of feel connected via technology), people having to work longer hours, and a general trend towards social disconnection.
When I meet a new person, I try to remember to ask them what their preferred kethod of communication is. "Do you like actual phone calls? Do you prefer text only? Social media?" Age does not seem to he a significant factor here: I have a 24 year old friend who calls out of the blue, like we did in the landline days, and friends in their 50s who are gregarious in person but are uncomfortable talking on the phone, preferring text. I loathe Facebook but retain an account because with some friends, including old friends I've known since the 80s, FB messages get a response in minutes, and text/email gets a response in weeks, if ever. So, asking new people their lreferred communication medium can be useful.
I've found it better to invite people out to do specific things at specific times: "hey, there's (event relevant to our mutual interest) happening on X date, would you like to go?" This seems to yield much better results than "do you want to get together sometime." It is also helpful to signal that you are nit always available. If someone gets the sense that they can get together with you anytime, they are less likely to prioritize time with you.
I agree with what others have said about not setting a precident that you will always be the one doing the inviting, and emotional labor. My general rule is that I'll give a new person 2 invites, each with a follow up, and if they don't confirm (or suggest a different time/day/activity that works better for them), I move on.
Just my 2 cents.
posted by ethical_caligula at 8:59 AM on March 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Making new friends as an adult can be a lot harder than as a young person. I have read entire articles about all the reasons for this, perhaps even on MeFi. It might help to realize that you're not alone in your frustrations, and that this is a pretty common experience.
People of all ages seem to have gotten a lot flakier in the last decade (as in, being wishy washy about making solid plans, last minute cancelations, simply not showing up). I have heard speculation as to the reasons for this shift, such as the availability of so many home entertainment options being available in the home (Netflix, games, and being able to sort of feel connected via technology), people having to work longer hours, and a general trend towards social disconnection.
When I meet a new person, I try to remember to ask them what their preferred kethod of communication is. "Do you like actual phone calls? Do you prefer text only? Social media?" Age does not seem to he a significant factor here: I have a 24 year old friend who calls out of the blue, like we did in the landline days, and friends in their 50s who are gregarious in person but are uncomfortable talking on the phone, preferring text. I loathe Facebook but retain an account because with some friends, including old friends I've known since the 80s, FB messages get a response in minutes, and text/email gets a response in weeks, if ever. So, asking new people their lreferred communication medium can be useful.
I've found it better to invite people out to do specific things at specific times: "hey, there's (event relevant to our mutual interest) happening on X date, would you like to go?" This seems to yield much better results than "do you want to get together sometime." It is also helpful to signal that you are nit always available. If someone gets the sense that they can get together with you anytime, they are less likely to prioritize time with you.
I agree with what others have said about not setting a precident that you will always be the one doing the inviting, and emotional labor. My general rule is that I'll give a new person 2 invites, each with a follow up, and if they don't confirm (or suggest a different time/day/activity that works better for them), I move on.
Just my 2 cents.
posted by ethical_caligula at 8:59 AM on March 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
Personally, I can be kind of a flake. I'm super busy. I love getting texts from newish people or old friends. What usually happens is I see it and either plan to respond or like the cat's throwing up on the carpet or I'm at the grocery store and now the message notification is gone and I move on with my day and forget. Later I will either go back to say something to the friend and say "I'm sorry I got caught up" and move on with what I was going to say, or my friend will send something unrelated like here's a picture of a goofy dog or I saw this and thought of you, and then I see that I forgot the last text and answer them then. I suggest you do something like that. Especially if people don't like being prodded, just a reminder that you have texted without explicitly being like I NEED AN ANSWER. If they respond to your second text and ignore the first, that's your answer.
posted by Bistyfrass at 10:37 AM on March 26, 2018
posted by Bistyfrass at 10:37 AM on March 26, 2018
Response by poster: Well posting a question on the Ask certainly got plenty of replies! Anybody want to grab drinks?
Thanks all, it was very helpful to see the range of feelings around this. At least one kitten video sent was a direct result of this thread.
I agree with most posters that a phone call out of the blue in 2018 feels like an emergency and is not for new friends. Heck, just texting one of my old friends to see if she was free for a phone call provoked a panicked call!
posted by Jenny'sCricket at 2:03 AM on March 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Thanks all, it was very helpful to see the range of feelings around this. At least one kitten video sent was a direct result of this thread.
I agree with most posters that a phone call out of the blue in 2018 feels like an emergency and is not for new friends. Heck, just texting one of my old friends to see if she was free for a phone call provoked a panicked call!
posted by Jenny'sCricket at 2:03 AM on March 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Oh, I just found something related to this:
"If you read text etiquette online, there’s a lot of tedious parsing about what a non-response means. The site Adult Social Skills lays out a spate of theories about what’s going on here when you hear nothing back. You’ve been socially rejected, they are playing hard to get, and so on. On another site, a post from the point of view of the person who is not responding explains that if they haven’t gotten back to you, it’s because of driving, work or the rest of life.posted by jenfullmoon at 5:19 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
Some or all of this is likely true, but you can boil this down to something even simpler: When someone doesn’t respond to your text, they don’t care that much, or have died. Everything that involves the non-responder being alive and well but not getting back to you revolves around that first truth, though. If they are too busy, you are not important enough to let know right away, so they don’t care.
If they would say yes but feel guilty because it’s complicated so they are not responding right away because they aren’t sure what to do, they don’t care. If they are into you on Tuesdays at 8 p.m. but not on Wednesdays at 4 p.m. because who the fuck knows why, they don’t care. If they really are busy right now but might not be some other time, they don’t care. It doesn’t mean they don’t care at all (though it might!) or never will care again; it’s just means they don’t care enough right now to solve your social calendar scheduling issue for you. This is what a therapist would call “good information” with regard to your VIP status with them (hint: it’s zero, this time) and you should live by it.
Sure, it’s possible they didn’t get the text, but this is only an excuse used by people who also do not care that much. They care so little their phone also doesn’t care, and therefore rejects your attempt at invading it. And obviously, if the person has died, they really don’t care, just not in a way you can be mad about.
In the absence of good information, most of us will wildly speculate what’s going on in this vacuum. I thought we were friends! The last time we hung out it was pretty chill! He said he loved me! She said I was the coolest friend she’d made in so long omg!
But we should reframe what we call good information, because it’s the action taken that matters. In this case, no action. No care.
That’s why there is only one simple rule needed to address this endlessly frustrating etiquette conundrum: Assume when you ask anyone to attend anything with you that the default is no. When you ask someone to hang out, think to yourself, I’m just giving this a shot, the answer is probably no.
Just assume the answer is no. Go about your day. Set a limit in your own mind of when you will cut off a possible response and make other plans. For drinks tonight, if you don’t hear back by 4 p.m., go make other plans. Do not, under any circumstances, leave your night free for this person to respond. For a show later or an event which occurs at a designated time, you may only include in the request a deadline by which you will assume the answer is no and go ask other people.
Living by the rule Assume the Answer Is No and Live Your Life solves this issue for every single last one of us. Another good thing to remember is by the time you have to turn to the internet to solve a basic question about being treated badly by someone you thought cared, you have definitely been treated badly. This bears out 99 percent of the time.
One caveat: Good friends, actual friends and people with human heads reply quickly to requests to hang out, even when the answer is no. They don’t want to leave a friend hanging. People act like they are honest-to-god away from their phones all the time but in reality are literally holding it while even taking a shit."
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I have consistently recommended not using electronic text (including email) for any communication whose outcome is emotionally important to you, and I stand by that recommendation. Caring about texts has a demonstrably high chance of leading to miscommunication, disappointment, anxiety and all kinds of other drama that are easily avoided simply by never ever doing that.
Face to face is the gold standard for emotionally significant communication, but a phone conversation will do at a pinch.
I understand and accept that at 56 years old and not having grown up in a world where texts were even a thing, younger people will tend to dismiss my perception of them as irrelevant because hey, this is 2018 and everybody uses text for everything now, Grandpa. But I would encourage you to muse on the idea that perhaps my opinion has been coloured not by reflex rejection of the newfangled, but by having noticed how little time I spend chewing holes in myself over wtf somebody else is really thinking, as compared to literally everybody I know who habitually rejects this sage advice.
posted by flabdablet at 5:38 AM on March 25, 2018 [22 favorites]