Lazy, Unemployed Wreck
February 3, 2006 9:08 AM Subscribe
What are some practical things to do to help motivate my lazy, unemployed, (slightly) depressed friend.
I have a very dear friend (he was best man at my wedding), who is now in a band with me. He has been unemployed for most of the 2 years that he has been out of college. I landed him a contract position for a few months, and he has been living off of the savings since then (over a year). He is about to run out of money, and he is such a procrastinator that he will wait until he is in a bind before addressing it.
My question is: What can I do to help, or, what I can I do to let him hit rock bottom. It hurts ME to see him like this, but I know I can't CHANGE him. I gotta change me, our relationship, or empower him to change.
I have a very dear friend (he was best man at my wedding), who is now in a band with me. He has been unemployed for most of the 2 years that he has been out of college. I landed him a contract position for a few months, and he has been living off of the savings since then (over a year). He is about to run out of money, and he is such a procrastinator that he will wait until he is in a bind before addressing it.
My question is: What can I do to help, or, what I can I do to let him hit rock bottom. It hurts ME to see him like this, but I know I can't CHANGE him. I gotta change me, our relationship, or empower him to change.
Your last sentence-and-a-half answers your opening question. I know I can't CHANGE him. I gotta change me, our relationship, or empower him to change.
I know it sucks, but all you can do is listen and tell him you're there for him. It sounds like you're both pretty young, and this is something that lots of people go through at some time in their life. Most of them eventually get their s*** together and end up fine.
I'm sorry that this isn't an answer.
posted by matildaben at 9:18 AM on February 3, 2006
I know it sucks, but all you can do is listen and tell him you're there for him. It sounds like you're both pretty young, and this is something that lots of people go through at some time in their life. Most of them eventually get their s*** together and end up fine.
I'm sorry that this isn't an answer.
posted by matildaben at 9:18 AM on February 3, 2006
what does "I'm there for you" mean, in practice?
posted by By The Grace of God at 9:34 AM on February 3, 2006
posted by By The Grace of God at 9:34 AM on February 3, 2006
Response by poster: Ditto from BTGoG -- What DOES "I'm there for you" mean, really? For my kids, it means sometimes I know they need sleep so I let them cry for 10 minutes, even though they want to stay up and be with me. At other times it means playing with them, feeding them, making sure they take in the right things, learn the right things, understand that people can be hurt, that respect matters. That's how I'm "there" for my kids. Is it the same with a friend?
It's hard to watch someone head down... to lose heart, and die inside, even if they're still muddling through life outside.
posted by psychotic_venom at 9:48 AM on February 3, 2006
It's hard to watch someone head down... to lose heart, and die inside, even if they're still muddling through life outside.
posted by psychotic_venom at 9:48 AM on February 3, 2006
Whatever you do, at some point you're going to have to make a choice. Choose brutal honesty - whether it's tell him to get a job or to get some therapy or whatever. If you two are actually that close, he should appreciate you for it.
You can't truly learn from a mistake until you make it (at least once). If you find that he doesn't appreciate you being on the level with him, the mistake you learned from wasn't that you were honest when it mattered.
posted by clearlynuts at 9:50 AM on February 3, 2006
You can't truly learn from a mistake until you make it (at least once). If you find that he doesn't appreciate you being on the level with him, the mistake you learned from wasn't that you were honest when it mattered.
posted by clearlynuts at 9:50 AM on February 3, 2006
Arrange some kind of exciting vacation in 6 months or a year's time that he'll need money for? Find an expensive and fun hobby that he'd like to join you in if only he was earning enough? I'm thinking of some kind of positive goals that might spark some ambition and get the ball rolling.
posted by nowonmai at 10:08 AM on February 3, 2006
posted by nowonmai at 10:08 AM on February 3, 2006
I have been through this twice now, with nephews. I have finally learned the most valuable lesson of all: Stop helping. It only delays what needs to happen, which is: taking responsibility for themselves and their lives.
Observing these two nephews, one of whom,the police showed up for, and the other who is incapable of supporting himself, has been pretty mind blowing for me. Here is what I learned: Some people may never make it. There is something broken that they either refuse to recognize, or are incapable of recognizing.
This is very ,very sad, and very hard to watch. But, every time you bail them out, even if it's in small ways, it continues the cycle of not letting them hit bottom, which would then make them have to face their demons, admit they have effed up, and take action to repair themselves and their crappy lives.
Your friend sounds a lot like my nephews, there is a lot of passivity and inertia. The best you can do is offer to be there if he decides to get help, or to improve his lot. Don't come up with solutions for him. Put it in his hands. If he's unhappy, he will hopefully decide to make changes. If not, there is nothing you can do.
posted by generic230 at 10:09 AM on February 3, 2006
Observing these two nephews, one of whom,the police showed up for, and the other who is incapable of supporting himself, has been pretty mind blowing for me. Here is what I learned: Some people may never make it. There is something broken that they either refuse to recognize, or are incapable of recognizing.
This is very ,very sad, and very hard to watch. But, every time you bail them out, even if it's in small ways, it continues the cycle of not letting them hit bottom, which would then make them have to face their demons, admit they have effed up, and take action to repair themselves and their crappy lives.
Your friend sounds a lot like my nephews, there is a lot of passivity and inertia. The best you can do is offer to be there if he decides to get help, or to improve his lot. Don't come up with solutions for him. Put it in his hands. If he's unhappy, he will hopefully decide to make changes. If not, there is nothing you can do.
posted by generic230 at 10:09 AM on February 3, 2006
Ditto what mkultra said, I haven't talked to one of my best friends for almost 2 years now because I loaned him money to pay his rent. I knew I'd never see that money again but his friendship was more important to me than losing some cash. I never once mentioned payback to him. Turns out he borrowed money from other friends as well (who he is also avoiding) and I assume his guilt has kept him away. If I had to do it again, instead of loaning him the money I would have put him to work doing something for me, then he would have felt like he earned it and wouldn't feel guilty about paying me back. He has a job now I hear but I don't think he's saving much. You think you're being cool but you're just laying a future guilt trip on him.
posted by any major dude at 10:11 AM on February 3, 2006
posted by any major dude at 10:11 AM on February 3, 2006
When a friend or relative is in trouble, there are two kinds of help: the help I can/want to give, and the help they actually need. Sometimes the two overlap, but often they don't.
I would say that in your buddy's position, anyone would appreciate a friend who doesn't give advice unless asked, and who listens.
[Sometimes when you listen, you keep hearing the same things over and over; I tend to think it's a good idea to point that out or change the subject. Others disagree.]
"Being there" pretty much means just being there, and not much else, because actively "helping" either doesn't improve the situation or makes it worse.
posted by wryly at 10:43 AM on February 3, 2006
I would say that in your buddy's position, anyone would appreciate a friend who doesn't give advice unless asked, and who listens.
[Sometimes when you listen, you keep hearing the same things over and over; I tend to think it's a good idea to point that out or change the subject. Others disagree.]
"Being there" pretty much means just being there, and not much else, because actively "helping" either doesn't improve the situation or makes it worse.
posted by wryly at 10:43 AM on February 3, 2006
I find myself agreeing with a lot of the above posts.
You have to let people run their own lives. They are the only ones who can do so. Giving someone endless help and sympathy isn't that good for either of you. You'll wind up exhausted and resentful, and they'll be infantilized and reinforced in seeing themselves as helpess victims.
This doesn't mean that you shouldn't ever help such people, but set some limits. Make it clear what those limits are, so that they know they have to take responsibility for what's beyond that. Do what you've said you'll do, and then leave the rest up to them. For example, I had a friend who was in a bad relationship. The guy moved in with her once, there followed several months of blitzkrieg, and so I helped her move him out. Then she promptly let him back in again. More months of misery followed. When she began to talk again of kicking him out and complaining about how haaaaaard it was going to be to get him out, I said to her, "I will be glad to help you move him out again. But if you let him move in a third time, you're on your own."
And I stuck to it. Even she agreed this was fair. She felt supported and cared about, but at the same time was forced to take some responsibility for her decisions.
It's not a bad idea to ask for return favours - after all, if you are in a relationship there should be some giving as well as taking. Be wary of cutting troubled people too much slack. No matter what their problems are, your relationship with them should not be all about them and they should not be allowed to be an asshole towards you.
posted by orange swan at 11:06 AM on February 3, 2006
You have to let people run their own lives. They are the only ones who can do so. Giving someone endless help and sympathy isn't that good for either of you. You'll wind up exhausted and resentful, and they'll be infantilized and reinforced in seeing themselves as helpess victims.
This doesn't mean that you shouldn't ever help such people, but set some limits. Make it clear what those limits are, so that they know they have to take responsibility for what's beyond that. Do what you've said you'll do, and then leave the rest up to them. For example, I had a friend who was in a bad relationship. The guy moved in with her once, there followed several months of blitzkrieg, and so I helped her move him out. Then she promptly let him back in again. More months of misery followed. When she began to talk again of kicking him out and complaining about how haaaaaard it was going to be to get him out, I said to her, "I will be glad to help you move him out again. But if you let him move in a third time, you're on your own."
And I stuck to it. Even she agreed this was fair. She felt supported and cared about, but at the same time was forced to take some responsibility for her decisions.
It's not a bad idea to ask for return favours - after all, if you are in a relationship there should be some giving as well as taking. Be wary of cutting troubled people too much slack. No matter what their problems are, your relationship with them should not be all about them and they should not be allowed to be an asshole towards you.
posted by orange swan at 11:06 AM on February 3, 2006
You mentioned you two were in a band. Is there any gear or toys he wants? Can yo plant the seed that guitar effect 'bigbadpedalthing' would be absolutely wicked, or that this new drum kit would be awesome, or whatever? If there's something he really wants, maybe there's a chance he'll be motivated to get off his butt, make some money and then be able to buy it. Can you motivate him to really want to purchase something in particular?
posted by cgg at 11:21 AM on February 3, 2006
posted by cgg at 11:21 AM on February 3, 2006
Best answer: "Do or do not...there is no try,"as Yoda would say, maybe your friend needs some inspiration? In Deepak Chopra's book, "The Spontaneous Fulfillment of Desire," he discusses the idea of gather together objects/photos/etc. that remind you of someone who you aspire to be like. This can be a fictional character like Yoda or someone non-fictional like Bruce Lee or William "Braveheart" Wallace (some of my favorites). Keep those items in a place where you will see them everyday & make a conscious effort on a daily basis to imagine yourself embodying those characteristics.
There are many books written like this, by Chopra and by many others including: Stephen Covey, the Dalai Lama, and pretty much whatever else might inspire you...if your friend is averse to reading, much of this material is available on video. Good luck to you and your friend - and remember, no ones future is ever written in stone.
BTW; I'm in an extremely similar situation...nothing has seemed to help my buddy either, but I commend you for taking the initiative to post this question. There are certainly some interesting thoughts here, but they all seem to fall on far ends of the spectrum. Out-right support OR complete abandonment; each seem a bit extreme; I imagine that some middle-way must exist.
posted by Jhaus at 11:28 AM on February 3, 2006
There are many books written like this, by Chopra and by many others including: Stephen Covey, the Dalai Lama, and pretty much whatever else might inspire you...if your friend is averse to reading, much of this material is available on video. Good luck to you and your friend - and remember, no ones future is ever written in stone.
BTW; I'm in an extremely similar situation...nothing has seemed to help my buddy either, but I commend you for taking the initiative to post this question. There are certainly some interesting thoughts here, but they all seem to fall on far ends of the spectrum. Out-right support OR complete abandonment; each seem a bit extreme; I imagine that some middle-way must exist.
posted by Jhaus at 11:28 AM on February 3, 2006
I don't think there's much point in trying to motivate someone into getting a job. Employment is just the standard society answer to the question of how to kill eight hours a day in order to make one's leisure time seem valuable. Most people can do this, but some just aren't built for it. However, having unlimited free time is bad for everybody - depression almost always follows it. Therefore, your friend needs to find a way to fill his time in an enjoyable way that, crucially, could lead to a more fulfilling life. This is where you come in.
You can still be a non-nagging, good friend by suggesting activties, hobbies and interests he might like. It's up to him to choose some and pursue them, but you can open some doors for him. The band could be great for this: he could get seriously interested in practicing his instrument, or get involved in promoting your band, booking gigs etc. He could get interested in the recording side of things, or get some merch together. Or, it might turn out that he happens to be invited rock-climbing by some pretty boy/girl and becomes obsessed with it.
posted by pollystark at 5:43 PM on February 3, 2006
You can still be a non-nagging, good friend by suggesting activties, hobbies and interests he might like. It's up to him to choose some and pursue them, but you can open some doors for him. The band could be great for this: he could get seriously interested in practicing his instrument, or get involved in promoting your band, booking gigs etc. He could get interested in the recording side of things, or get some merch together. Or, it might turn out that he happens to be invited rock-climbing by some pretty boy/girl and becomes obsessed with it.
posted by pollystark at 5:43 PM on February 3, 2006
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posted by k8t at 9:12 AM on February 3, 2006