5 Year-Old Being Walked All Over By Pre-School Clique
February 26, 2018 5:45 PM Subscribe
How do I talk to my daughter about a pre-school clique that bosses her around? I am especially bothered by her determination to be accepted and her efforts to appease the other children, even while she seems unhappy about the situation.
My daughter is in a pre-k class. Last fall she really wanted to be friends with a group of 3 other kids in her class, and persisted until she was "accepted" into their group. Eventually the 4 of them started hanging out together outside of school as well.
For a while, everything went great socially. For the past two weeks or so however, my daughter has started saying that her friends are bossing her around by telling her what activities to do all day (their teacher gives them a choice of several options). They sometimes will also tell her that she is no longer friends with them.
My daughter still really wants to be friends with this group, and says that she doesn't mind them bossing her around. I tell her if they treat her like this, that she should play with other kids, but she says she doesn't want to play with anyone else. She has been drawing them pictures to win over their friendship again.
As for the teacher, she designs great activities for the kids, but is young and doesn't have a lot of control over their behavior (kids talk over her, call her "Ms. Sassypants", etc). I saw one instance where a kid called my daughter poopyface and daughter got upset and yelled at him to stop. The teacher simply told my daughter to ignore him, and did not address it with the other child at all (in front of me). I believe in letting the kids fight their own fights, but my impression is that the teacher acts like this because she does not have the kids respect, and not because she is choosing when to let them figure things out if that makes sense.
This is our first time dealing with a situation like this as parents. How do I teach my daughter to value herself, and to not let other kids boss her around like that? Or is this just something that we all need to wait out until my daughter makes that decision for herself? When is it appropriate to bring this up to other adults? We could go to the teacher, pre-school director (it's a small school and I see her every day), or also the other kids parents.
My daughter is in a pre-k class. Last fall she really wanted to be friends with a group of 3 other kids in her class, and persisted until she was "accepted" into their group. Eventually the 4 of them started hanging out together outside of school as well.
For a while, everything went great socially. For the past two weeks or so however, my daughter has started saying that her friends are bossing her around by telling her what activities to do all day (their teacher gives them a choice of several options). They sometimes will also tell her that she is no longer friends with them.
My daughter still really wants to be friends with this group, and says that she doesn't mind them bossing her around. I tell her if they treat her like this, that she should play with other kids, but she says she doesn't want to play with anyone else. She has been drawing them pictures to win over their friendship again.
As for the teacher, she designs great activities for the kids, but is young and doesn't have a lot of control over their behavior (kids talk over her, call her "Ms. Sassypants", etc). I saw one instance where a kid called my daughter poopyface and daughter got upset and yelled at him to stop. The teacher simply told my daughter to ignore him, and did not address it with the other child at all (in front of me). I believe in letting the kids fight their own fights, but my impression is that the teacher acts like this because she does not have the kids respect, and not because she is choosing when to let them figure things out if that makes sense.
This is our first time dealing with a situation like this as parents. How do I teach my daughter to value herself, and to not let other kids boss her around like that? Or is this just something that we all need to wait out until my daughter makes that decision for herself? When is it appropriate to bring this up to other adults? We could go to the teacher, pre-school director (it's a small school and I see her every day), or also the other kids parents.
I don't know how to fix it but I do want to reassure you that this experience is not necessarily formative. A sibling of mine had something similar happen... I want to say in second grade... in retrospect it is just hard for me to believe that anyone let it go on, it was real Lord of the Flies pecking order stuff, making placatory gifts for the "leaders" etc... anyway, that sibling is now as arrogant an adult as you can imagine. I don't think they even remember it.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:33 PM on February 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:33 PM on February 26, 2018 [2 favorites]
From your description, this sounds like pretty typical pre-k behavior to me -- both your daughter doing nice things for her friends and her friends sometimes rejecting her. My son is 4.5 years old and he's always saying things like "Z wouldn't let me play with him, and he said I'm not his friend anymore!" or "I don't want to be E's friend this week" or even "Me and R agreed we won't play with O. We only want to play with each other." In each case, within a matter of hours/days/weeks, the kids were back on friendly terms.
If your daughter insists she's not bothered by her friends' behavior, and it's only been going on for a couple weeks, I wonder if you're putting adult expectations on kids' friendships? 5 year olds are still learning how to be social creatures, and what might be incredibly cruel by adult standards is just part of childhood/not that big of a deal for kids. I wouldn't be surprised if everything is back to normal in a few weeks. (If you daughter were really upset about this, I'd have a different response.) Also, are you sure she's not playing with other kids, too? My son only talks about a few of his classmates, but his teachers say he'll happily play with almost anyone.
That said, the teacher's response would bother me. At my son's school, even though the teachers acknowledge this is completely normal behavior, they talk to the kids about being kind, not leaving others out, thinking of each other's feelings, not calling each other names, etc., etc., etc. I wouldn't hesitate to bring this up at the school. I'd start with the teacher, to see what kind of response you get. If you're not satisfied, I'd bring in the director, too.
posted by pear at 6:39 PM on February 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
If your daughter insists she's not bothered by her friends' behavior, and it's only been going on for a couple weeks, I wonder if you're putting adult expectations on kids' friendships? 5 year olds are still learning how to be social creatures, and what might be incredibly cruel by adult standards is just part of childhood/not that big of a deal for kids. I wouldn't be surprised if everything is back to normal in a few weeks. (If you daughter were really upset about this, I'd have a different response.) Also, are you sure she's not playing with other kids, too? My son only talks about a few of his classmates, but his teachers say he'll happily play with almost anyone.
That said, the teacher's response would bother me. At my son's school, even though the teachers acknowledge this is completely normal behavior, they talk to the kids about being kind, not leaving others out, thinking of each other's feelings, not calling each other names, etc., etc., etc. I wouldn't hesitate to bring this up at the school. I'd start with the teacher, to see what kind of response you get. If you're not satisfied, I'd bring in the director, too.
posted by pear at 6:39 PM on February 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
I would be at the principal so fast voicing my objections. Or maybe just out the dorr w/ my child altogether. I'm sympathetic to this teacher, truly, but thi is unacceptable.
Our pre-school and elementary would never ever accept this. The elementary school is especially progressive, this type of behavior is addressed immediately when it crops up in a direct and compassionate manner. Your teacher absolutely is awful at her role, meaning well is not cutting it here for your child's wellbeing. I've never seen children at any grade level being as disrespectful as you describe, and I volunteer at our elementary school weekly.
This is not normal. I would change classes or schools. If that's not possible, I would be engaging my child in heaps of extracurricular activities far away from this friend group, I would overwhelm my child in new friend opportunities.
I have other more finessed ideas, but before putting in that type of oversight, I would probably seek to fix this by removing my child from this troubled environment. Seriously, everything you describe is nuts to me. My son is in 1st grade and has been in a group setting (preschool, then kinder and so on) since he was 2.5 years old. This is not normal for a teacher/class dynamic.
posted by jbenben at 7:54 PM on February 26, 2018 [5 favorites]
Our pre-school and elementary would never ever accept this. The elementary school is especially progressive, this type of behavior is addressed immediately when it crops up in a direct and compassionate manner. Your teacher absolutely is awful at her role, meaning well is not cutting it here for your child's wellbeing. I've never seen children at any grade level being as disrespectful as you describe, and I volunteer at our elementary school weekly.
This is not normal. I would change classes or schools. If that's not possible, I would be engaging my child in heaps of extracurricular activities far away from this friend group, I would overwhelm my child in new friend opportunities.
I have other more finessed ideas, but before putting in that type of oversight, I would probably seek to fix this by removing my child from this troubled environment. Seriously, everything you describe is nuts to me. My son is in 1st grade and has been in a group setting (preschool, then kinder and so on) since he was 2.5 years old. This is not normal for a teacher/class dynamic.
posted by jbenben at 7:54 PM on February 26, 2018 [5 favorites]
Oh, ha ha. I thought this was pre-k as part of an elementary school. Just switch preschools. Life is too short. It's a small school - THEY ALREADY KNOW AND THEY DO NOT CARE.
You teach your daughter to value herself by moving her out of this abusive environment immediately. She will learn to value herself by your actions here. Make an emotionally healthy environment for her a priority. Set the example. She'll learn because her new environment will feel better, as it should.
Find a better school.
posted by jbenben at 8:02 PM on February 26, 2018 [8 favorites]
You teach your daughter to value herself by moving her out of this abusive environment immediately. She will learn to value herself by your actions here. Make an emotionally healthy environment for her a priority. Set the example. She'll learn because her new environment will feel better, as it should.
Find a better school.
posted by jbenben at 8:02 PM on February 26, 2018 [8 favorites]
Your daughter isn’t doing anything wrong. She and her classmates are at an age where they need hands-on intervention and help at learning how to problem-solve and interact socially - what they’re getting instead is an unsupervised lord of the flies scenario. This is actually the most important skillset they will (or won’t...) learn in pre-k; far more important than academics, IMHO.
Pull her out of this school and stop making excuses for the teacher.
posted by The Toad at 8:29 PM on February 26, 2018 [8 favorites]
Pull her out of this school and stop making excuses for the teacher.
posted by The Toad at 8:29 PM on February 26, 2018 [8 favorites]
Best answer:
I think part of how you teach your daughter to value herself is by demonstrating that the adults in her life value her. That means validating her experience and her feelings about it, and helping her understand healthy ways to respond to the other kids, advocate for herself, and find alternative ways to socialize and play. If the pre-school environment is really chronically dysfunctional, it might mean you move her to a different school. This doesn't mean you have to monitor and intervene in every interaction—part of growing up is learning how to resolve disputes and tolerate disappointments on your own—but telling a little kid to "just ignore" someone's bullying is terrible, possibly damaging advice.
posted by 4rtemis at 8:30 PM on February 26, 2018 [9 favorites]
I don't know how to fix it but I do want to reassure you that this experience is not necessarily formative. A sibling of mine had something similar happen... I want to say in second grade... in retrospect it is just hard for me to believe that anyone let it go on, it was real Lord of the Flies pecking order stuff, making placatory gifts for the "leaders" etc... anyway, that sibling is now as arrogant an adult as you can imagine. I don't think they even remember it.I would bet that your sibling does remember it. Adulthood arrogance can be a protective response to childhood bullying. Speaking for, a, um, friend here.
I think part of how you teach your daughter to value herself is by demonstrating that the adults in her life value her. That means validating her experience and her feelings about it, and helping her understand healthy ways to respond to the other kids, advocate for herself, and find alternative ways to socialize and play. If the pre-school environment is really chronically dysfunctional, it might mean you move her to a different school. This doesn't mean you have to monitor and intervene in every interaction—part of growing up is learning how to resolve disputes and tolerate disappointments on your own—but telling a little kid to "just ignore" someone's bullying is terrible, possibly damaging advice.
posted by 4rtemis at 8:30 PM on February 26, 2018 [9 favorites]
Talk to her about what makes "a good friend" (without initially referencing the clique at school). Stuff like, doesn't say mean things, helps each other, shares, takes turns deciding what to play, that sort of stuff; then move onto what don't good friends do - name calling, being bossy, etc. Talk about what to do if someone is doing the mean stuff - go and play with someone else, tell the teacher if they say something rude or hurt you; don't shout back or keep trying to play with them.
Then next time something happens at school (either that you saw or she tells you about), say "remember when we talked about what friends do? Do you think [friend] was doing the nice things we talked about?", and have a discussion about whether [friend] was being a good friend or not.
In my experience sometimes this will just be usual 4yo "getting used to socialising" and they'll be good friends again in a couple of weeks, and sometimes you kid will just pipe up with "I'm not going to play with [friend] any more because they're always silly" or something and that will be it. You just need to give them an understanding of the right way to act and how to expect others to act.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:27 AM on February 27, 2018
Then next time something happens at school (either that you saw or she tells you about), say "remember when we talked about what friends do? Do you think [friend] was doing the nice things we talked about?", and have a discussion about whether [friend] was being a good friend or not.
In my experience sometimes this will just be usual 4yo "getting used to socialising" and they'll be good friends again in a couple of weeks, and sometimes you kid will just pipe up with "I'm not going to play with [friend] any more because they're always silly" or something and that will be it. You just need to give them an understanding of the right way to act and how to expect others to act.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:27 AM on February 27, 2018
My son has been having a hard time with this type of behavior at his Pre-K and I'm guessing you're in the same boat as me and don't want to switch schools this soon before the start of Kindergarten. I've addressed it with the director and they actually added a unit on friendliness and are more on top of policing rude behavior, but it's still not a resolved situation. Instead, we've been trying to help him foster better quality friendships outside of school through activities and with similar-aged cousins. I've also been making an effort to model and discuss appropriate behavior with my friends ("She is taking care of the dog while we're on vacation because friends help each other out." "I can tell he is having a bad day, so let's bring him a coffee to cheer him up." etc.)
posted by galvanized unicorn at 7:24 AM on February 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by galvanized unicorn at 7:24 AM on February 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
you know, I am going to modify my answer on further thought (and I hadn't noticed the detail about the teacher earlier.) I think you're right - this teacher doesn't have control of the room - and upon further reflection I do think that getting your girl away from a nasty clique and a hapless teacher could really be the best thing for her, and wouldn't be an overreaction.
I'm not sure that the choice of game-playing is necessarily a bullying thing. But that business of "you're not our friend" (is that what it is, the threat of excluding from the group?) - that, I think, is a bigger deal, and something to take seriously.
Also, whoever said above that being kicked around early on can have different kinds of bad socialization results later is absolutely right.
I doubt talking to the teacher/director is going to change things. If this teacher can't even do an easy/obvious thing like reprimand a kid for "Poopyface," then she obviously doesn't have an instinct for prioritizing respectful behavior, and I don't think that's something that a complaint from you is going to change.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:00 AM on February 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure that the choice of game-playing is necessarily a bullying thing. But that business of "you're not our friend" (is that what it is, the threat of excluding from the group?) - that, I think, is a bigger deal, and something to take seriously.
Also, whoever said above that being kicked around early on can have different kinds of bad socialization results later is absolutely right.
I doubt talking to the teacher/director is going to change things. If this teacher can't even do an easy/obvious thing like reprimand a kid for "Poopyface," then she obviously doesn't have an instinct for prioritizing respectful behavior, and I don't think that's something that a complaint from you is going to change.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:00 AM on February 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
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