Polyglot tips for the formerly precocious
February 25, 2018 6:41 AM Subscribe
Hi folks. I am a 'returning learner' of languages looking for some tips. Here's a brief outline:
Grew up bilingual in Spanish/English, studied Japanese, Arabic, and Russian in highschool, became exceedingly lazy and 'lost' a lot of it. In the last year or so I've become newly interested in rekindling my interest in languages and not taking no for an answer.
I want to become a polyglot, and study multiple languages again. Can you help?
Some more detail...
So in 6 months, targeting specifically Arabic, I've improved drastically (though I've hit some serious roadblocks there; that's a whole other conversation!). I have a long way to go and I think my work schedule isn't helping (irregular hours, often late and weird sleeping patterns).
But suffice to say I'm not content with just that: when I boot up an old game in Japanese I'm surprised that I can follow along fairly well and the few times I've tried to dedicate an hour or two to the thing--or even through playing Mario Odyssey in Japanese--it's been really fun. So I know I have a lot there in the back of my mind and I'd hate to waste it.
So this is the major problem: rather than starting form a clean slate, I've found with all my language study (as well as age) that things tend to get muddled very quickly, as they mix with things I've previously learned or half-learned, and it takes me a very long time to really assess my 'level'. I waver between materials that are far too advanced and far too simplistic for my understanding. I have trouble figuring out what I need and even more than that balancing my time. Sometimes I feel like I'm not learning anything.
Really what I'm looking for is some more...lifestyle advice, I suppose, from folks who are determined--against their own best interests--to study multiple languages at once. Some instincts I've had that seem to be confirmed by some websites I've read are things like: study two very different languages so the boundaries don't blur, set alternating days of the week, and so on.
But I guess I'm wondering if anyone has tips or even just personal narratives of how they went from zero to hero in this regard. I used to love learning languages and it really enriched my view and understanding of the world, and today more than anything I find myself cursing the last 8 or 9 years where I let things decay like this. But I'm determined not to let that get to me.
I know that getting a tutor or going to a class would be a big step--and I guess that's the last part of this. I have thought extensively about this, and that may be an option down the line. But for now, I don't have the time to do so, and I'm a hot mess. so I'm looking for life-balancing, time-budgeting, auto-didact language-learning trickery for anyone willing to help.
PS -- Not looking for quick-fixes, as I know and am ready to invest years in this.
Thanks/شكراّ/ありがとうございました！！ (and спасибо I guess :)
Some more detail...
So in 6 months, targeting specifically Arabic, I've improved drastically (though I've hit some serious roadblocks there; that's a whole other conversation!). I have a long way to go and I think my work schedule isn't helping (irregular hours, often late and weird sleeping patterns).
But suffice to say I'm not content with just that: when I boot up an old game in Japanese I'm surprised that I can follow along fairly well and the few times I've tried to dedicate an hour or two to the thing--or even through playing Mario Odyssey in Japanese--it's been really fun. So I know I have a lot there in the back of my mind and I'd hate to waste it.
So this is the major problem: rather than starting form a clean slate, I've found with all my language study (as well as age) that things tend to get muddled very quickly, as they mix with things I've previously learned or half-learned, and it takes me a very long time to really assess my 'level'. I waver between materials that are far too advanced and far too simplistic for my understanding. I have trouble figuring out what I need and even more than that balancing my time. Sometimes I feel like I'm not learning anything.
Really what I'm looking for is some more...lifestyle advice, I suppose, from folks who are determined--against their own best interests--to study multiple languages at once. Some instincts I've had that seem to be confirmed by some websites I've read are things like: study two very different languages so the boundaries don't blur, set alternating days of the week, and so on.
But I guess I'm wondering if anyone has tips or even just personal narratives of how they went from zero to hero in this regard. I used to love learning languages and it really enriched my view and understanding of the world, and today more than anything I find myself cursing the last 8 or 9 years where I let things decay like this. But I'm determined not to let that get to me.
I know that getting a tutor or going to a class would be a big step--and I guess that's the last part of this. I have thought extensively about this, and that may be an option down the line. But for now, I don't have the time to do so, and I'm a hot mess. so I'm looking for life-balancing, time-budgeting, auto-didact language-learning trickery for anyone willing to help.
PS -- Not looking for quick-fixes, as I know and am ready to invest years in this.
Thanks/شكراّ/ありがとうございました！！ (and спасибо I guess :)
Hey I speak 6 with advanced or intermediate proficiency and have dabbled in others. Happy to talk sometime and swap notes.
posted by cacao at 7:17 AM on February 25, 2018
posted by cacao at 7:17 AM on February 25, 2018
In my case, studying Latin and Ancient Greek helped de-muddle things. If you really want to delve into a Romance language and how languages evolve, French has a very well-documented evolution (obviously I am biased).
I speak French and English every day and still get mixed up occasionally, but make a point of correcting myself and explaining the correction in the moment. People go O.o; the first time, but once they grok that I am a joyful pedant as opposed to a straitened one, it becomes a virtuous circle. Having a sense of humor + wordplay is a great plus when learning languages.
Indeed a lot of the specifics I remember, whether grammar or vocabulary, are thanks to silliness around words. Enjoy what you learn and you'll notice it sticks around better.
I speak about a dozen languages at varying levels, and can understand more.
posted by fraula at 7:35 AM on February 25, 2018
I speak French and English every day and still get mixed up occasionally, but make a point of correcting myself and explaining the correction in the moment. People go O.o; the first time, but once they grok that I am a joyful pedant as opposed to a straitened one, it becomes a virtuous circle. Having a sense of humor + wordplay is a great plus when learning languages.
Indeed a lot of the specifics I remember, whether grammar or vocabulary, are thanks to silliness around words. Enjoy what you learn and you'll notice it sticks around better.
I speak about a dozen languages at varying levels, and can understand more.
posted by fraula at 7:35 AM on February 25, 2018
I have a language I lost in mid childhood. If I sit and listen the news in that language, its so close I can taste it. Get some podcasts or maybe kids audiobooks, and put them on when youre cooking, driving, etc. It's amazing what the brain can dig out when prompted!
posted by Northbysomewhatcrazy at 9:52 AM on February 25, 2018
posted by Northbysomewhatcrazy at 9:52 AM on February 25, 2018
Best answer: I’m nowhere near your level, but learned up to probably upper-intermediate Estonian 20 years ago and intermediate Spanish 10 years ago, and have gone back to both in the past couple of years (tho not together - studied mostly Estonian one year and mostly Spanish the next, but did find myself speaking decent Estonian at an event in the middle of my Spanish year without cracking under the strain).
One of the best things I did on revisiting Estonian was listen to a podcast repeatedly. (I mean, the same episode, on my commute, every day for a month or more!). It was amazing how I went from only getting the odd word to understanding most of it, without doing much specific study to fill in the gaps - it was like it just helped my brain strengthen the connections that had whittled away to bare threads over the years (Amusing aside: The pool of Estonian speakers in the UK being as small as it is, shortly after this I ran into the woman who was being interviewed in the podcast - didn’t realise it was her until I heard her voice - I told her I’d heard her podcast but didn’t admit I’d listened to her 30+ times!!).
If you’re switching between languages, podcasts are also good for helping flip the switch - I try and listen to a Spanish podcast when I’m on the way to my evening class to get in the zone.
But I know what you mean about things feeling at once too easy and too hard. My approach has been to start at the lower level and relearn that thoroughly, and any time I hit one of those “I know this is right but I don’t know why” moments about things that are more advanced than my current study level, I just allow myself to feel smug and happy that it’ll be easier when I relearn it for the second time.
If you feel like you’re not making progress, can you make yourself a longish-term schedule that, even if it covers things that are easy to you, makes sure you keep moving? Present tense this week, imperative next week, future tense the next week etc?
posted by penguin pie at 11:15 AM on February 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
One of the best things I did on revisiting Estonian was listen to a podcast repeatedly. (I mean, the same episode, on my commute, every day for a month or more!). It was amazing how I went from only getting the odd word to understanding most of it, without doing much specific study to fill in the gaps - it was like it just helped my brain strengthen the connections that had whittled away to bare threads over the years (Amusing aside: The pool of Estonian speakers in the UK being as small as it is, shortly after this I ran into the woman who was being interviewed in the podcast - didn’t realise it was her until I heard her voice - I told her I’d heard her podcast but didn’t admit I’d listened to her 30+ times!!).
If you’re switching between languages, podcasts are also good for helping flip the switch - I try and listen to a Spanish podcast when I’m on the way to my evening class to get in the zone.
But I know what you mean about things feeling at once too easy and too hard. My approach has been to start at the lower level and relearn that thoroughly, and any time I hit one of those “I know this is right but I don’t know why” moments about things that are more advanced than my current study level, I just allow myself to feel smug and happy that it’ll be easier when I relearn it for the second time.
If you feel like you’re not making progress, can you make yourself a longish-term schedule that, even if it covers things that are easy to you, makes sure you keep moving? Present tense this week, imperative next week, future tense the next week etc?
posted by penguin pie at 11:15 AM on February 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Yeah, I mean for individual languages I have my routines...with Arabic for example there's an amazing series called 'Arabic Voices', of which there's about 6 or 7 segments in the dialect I'm studying that I listen to over and over again on rotation, until I'm familiar with the word patterns and so on.
I think one thing I'm getting at is--should I not only isolate languages but also techniques? Like if I'm doing train podcasts for one language, will I get too muddled trying to also turn that into Japanese time? Should I keep Spanish for the news (I do need to brush up from time to time), Arabic for podcasts, and Japanese for games? I'm not sure if this is wishful thinking but I wonder if it will help create 'containers', as it were.
I see what you mean about actual grammatical scheduling. I was thinking about something like the JLPT, which has levels of testing which you can study 'for', so they are very clear targets. I've always been bad at scheduling, but maybe now I should start. At least that's how they would do it in a real class, anyway.
I've also thought about language coaches, there's one guy online that's pretty well known for Arabic it seems, and it honestly looks like it could be a huge help but something about it just makes me balk at the idea...I'm already paying for so many other resources!
posted by parkbench at 11:25 AM on February 25, 2018
I think one thing I'm getting at is--should I not only isolate languages but also techniques? Like if I'm doing train podcasts for one language, will I get too muddled trying to also turn that into Japanese time? Should I keep Spanish for the news (I do need to brush up from time to time), Arabic for podcasts, and Japanese for games? I'm not sure if this is wishful thinking but I wonder if it will help create 'containers', as it were.
I see what you mean about actual grammatical scheduling. I was thinking about something like the JLPT, which has levels of testing which you can study 'for', so they are very clear targets. I've always been bad at scheduling, but maybe now I should start. At least that's how they would do it in a real class, anyway.
I've also thought about language coaches, there's one guy online that's pretty well known for Arabic it seems, and it honestly looks like it could be a huge help but something about it just makes me balk at the idea...I'm already paying for so many other resources!
posted by parkbench at 11:25 AM on February 25, 2018
Best answer: I'm studying Japanese and brushing up my Spanish with Duolingo and I think it's helped both. It's helped my Japanese because before I wasn't really paying attention to particles and which to use when, and it's helped my Spanish because it makes me think in it a little every day, when before I wasn't really paying attention; for Spanish, they also have bots that you can chat with to work on speaking. I may add some of the other languages I've studied at some point.
I also use Wanikani to study kanji; their language resources forum is a treasure trove of links to study aids, and other sub-forums talk about studying for the JLPT.
posted by mogget at 12:50 PM on February 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
I also use Wanikani to study kanji; their language resources forum is a treasure trove of links to study aids, and other sub-forums talk about studying for the JLPT.
posted by mogget at 12:50 PM on February 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
You might be interested to read about the polyglot Judith Meyer. Her blog used to have tips about multiple language learning - not sure if it is still online.
posted by paduasoy at 3:53 PM on February 25, 2018
posted by paduasoy at 3:53 PM on February 25, 2018
The language pedagogy people I know are really into Fluent Forever by Gabriel Wyner.
posted by carrioncomfort at 7:57 AM on February 26, 2018
posted by carrioncomfort at 7:57 AM on February 26, 2018
Best answer: Hi, I'm you (except I didn't get to grow up bilingual) - started Spanish in grade school, French and German in high school, took intro courses in Russian and Italian in college, and started Japanese on my own a few years ago.
My suggestions:
For me: I happily mix languages and it rarely causes a problem (I sometimes find myself starting a sentence in Japanese and finishing in Italian, of all things, but oh well, no big deal). I try to mix up listening and reading; I am doing this all on my own, no classes, teacher, or tutor, which is really not ideal, so I need to really push myself to produce output (writing and speaking) if I want to improve those skills. I've found that I have lots of ebbs and flows and cycles and plateaus in my language learning, and I try to not stress about that. Sometimes you'll be plodding along feeling like you aren't learning anything, and then suddenly you find that you're understanding a ton of stuff you weren't getting before, and it all just comes together. So, trust the process, and also observe and note what works for you.
Buena suerte, and gambatte!
posted by kristi at 12:07 PM on February 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
My suggestions:
- the big one: be realistic about the fact that studying multiple languages means slower progress in all of them. It's okay! It's just that, if you have 6 hours to spend on languages a week, that doesn't mean you get 6 in Japanese and 6 in Arabic and 6 in review Spanish and and and. It may mean you get 3 in Japanese and 1 in Arabic and 20 minutes in review Spanish and 5 minutes in Duolingo Russian. It's fine if you only spend 20 minutes on Japanese a week; just be sure to adjust your expectations accordingly.
- set some goals for yourself, ideally with specific outcomes - like MAYBE the JLPTs, but ideally more like "I want to be able to use the subjunctive correctly all the time" or "I want to be able to carry on a five minute conversation about movies" or "I want to be able to read Harry Potter in Russian". Then figure out roughly what steps will get you to that goal, and VERY roughly how long that will take given your realistic (see above) available time. Then, check in with yourself - how are you coming on your movie vocabulary? Are you on track for that goal?
- keep a language journal. Make notes about things you want to try and then, later, what happened when you tried them. Did studying different languages on different days seem to help, or make no difference? Are you getting enough listening input? What else could you try to improve your vocabulary? When you try that, does it help? MOST IMPORTANTLY, at least one a week, write down your progress, what was hard, what seemed like a step forward. That helps fight the feeling that you're not learning anything.
- check out language learning forums, especially A Language Learner's Forum and its predecessor, How to Learn Any Language Forum. Important reminder: reading about language learning is not actual language learning. It's easy to get sucked into this stuff and spend all your language time reading about it. Don't do this. Learn from my mistakes. [grin]
For me: I happily mix languages and it rarely causes a problem (I sometimes find myself starting a sentence in Japanese and finishing in Italian, of all things, but oh well, no big deal). I try to mix up listening and reading; I am doing this all on my own, no classes, teacher, or tutor, which is really not ideal, so I need to really push myself to produce output (writing and speaking) if I want to improve those skills. I've found that I have lots of ebbs and flows and cycles and plateaus in my language learning, and I try to not stress about that. Sometimes you'll be plodding along feeling like you aren't learning anything, and then suddenly you find that you're understanding a ton of stuff you weren't getting before, and it all just comes together. So, trust the process, and also observe and note what works for you.
Buena suerte, and gambatte!
posted by kristi at 12:07 PM on February 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
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posted by parkbench at 6:43 AM on February 25, 2018