Apologising for being rude
February 21, 2018 2:11 PM Subscribe
How should I handle being accused of being rude?
I snapped at a fellow student in an informal meeting today. It was rude and hostile and I was ashamed of myself. After the meeting I went to find the person in order to apologise. She verbalised that she was grateful for the apology, but also said that I had been rude to her on other occasions too. I had no idea that I had ever been rude to her before- this is someone I have only known for around 6 months, who I see on maybe a weekly basis if not less frequently, and with whom I can only recall having a handful of direct conversations, none of which I would even remember as having the potential for me to be rude in!
I had to leave for another engagement (it probably wasn't the best time to have made my apology) so rather fluffed my handling of this revelation. I apologised again, and said that I hadn't been aware of previous incidents, but was sorry for them anyway, and then left.
I'm now feeling very upset and scared that I'm inadvertently coming across as rude to people I value having cordial relationships with. This isn't helped by the fact I had another incident with a different fellow student last year, where she exploded at me one day over perceived slights I had made to her over the course of months- again with me being totally clueless that she felt that way. This was resolved, as we discussed it and she realised what she had perceived as rudeness/hostility had been me just being socially clumsy in a way that happened to put her back up, but for other people wouldn't be seen as rude. I feel fairly safe in saying this incident was a case of cultural differences and miscommunication, and also her being a highly sensitive person.
After the incident last summer I asked my friends whether they thought I was rude or mean or if this person had had cause to feel this way, and they all said no, that I'm friendly and generally well liked.
Today I know I was rude, and can see what I did wrong- which is why I immediately apologised. But I do honestly feel I am not rude in general, which is where my confusion comes from. The people accusing me are people I may not be close friends with, but who I respect and have generally positive feelings about- but this seems like a pattern so I must be doing something wrong. How can I be going around thinking I'm not being rude or hostile (and having the ability to distinguish and acknowledge when I am rude), but other people are clearly thinking I am!?
I want to write an email to the person from today apologising again and asking if she would like to meet for a cup of coffee and to talk about what she perceived as rude behaviour from me in the past, so I can better understand and apologise for it properly. Is this a good idea? If you were in her shoes would you want to receive an email like this? Should I back off and make it my business to work out what I have done that was rude, and fix it by myself? I don't want to make it her work.
Also I would welcome any suggestions on how to handle this kind of thing. Are you a person who kept being mistakenly interpreted as being rude and/or hostile, and figured out where they were going wrong? I'm just so scared that this is happening more often without me being aware, not just with the people who have confronted me.
If it's relevant these incidents are happening in a postgraduate setting (think MFA program), and the incidents have both been with fellow women, one of whom is my age and one of whom is older than me.
I snapped at a fellow student in an informal meeting today. It was rude and hostile and I was ashamed of myself. After the meeting I went to find the person in order to apologise. She verbalised that she was grateful for the apology, but also said that I had been rude to her on other occasions too. I had no idea that I had ever been rude to her before- this is someone I have only known for around 6 months, who I see on maybe a weekly basis if not less frequently, and with whom I can only recall having a handful of direct conversations, none of which I would even remember as having the potential for me to be rude in!
I had to leave for another engagement (it probably wasn't the best time to have made my apology) so rather fluffed my handling of this revelation. I apologised again, and said that I hadn't been aware of previous incidents, but was sorry for them anyway, and then left.
I'm now feeling very upset and scared that I'm inadvertently coming across as rude to people I value having cordial relationships with. This isn't helped by the fact I had another incident with a different fellow student last year, where she exploded at me one day over perceived slights I had made to her over the course of months- again with me being totally clueless that she felt that way. This was resolved, as we discussed it and she realised what she had perceived as rudeness/hostility had been me just being socially clumsy in a way that happened to put her back up, but for other people wouldn't be seen as rude. I feel fairly safe in saying this incident was a case of cultural differences and miscommunication, and also her being a highly sensitive person.
After the incident last summer I asked my friends whether they thought I was rude or mean or if this person had had cause to feel this way, and they all said no, that I'm friendly and generally well liked.
Today I know I was rude, and can see what I did wrong- which is why I immediately apologised. But I do honestly feel I am not rude in general, which is where my confusion comes from. The people accusing me are people I may not be close friends with, but who I respect and have generally positive feelings about- but this seems like a pattern so I must be doing something wrong. How can I be going around thinking I'm not being rude or hostile (and having the ability to distinguish and acknowledge when I am rude), but other people are clearly thinking I am!?
I want to write an email to the person from today apologising again and asking if she would like to meet for a cup of coffee and to talk about what she perceived as rude behaviour from me in the past, so I can better understand and apologise for it properly. Is this a good idea? If you were in her shoes would you want to receive an email like this? Should I back off and make it my business to work out what I have done that was rude, and fix it by myself? I don't want to make it her work.
Also I would welcome any suggestions on how to handle this kind of thing. Are you a person who kept being mistakenly interpreted as being rude and/or hostile, and figured out where they were going wrong? I'm just so scared that this is happening more often without me being aware, not just with the people who have confronted me.
If it's relevant these incidents are happening in a postgraduate setting (think MFA program), and the incidents have both been with fellow women, one of whom is my age and one of whom is older than me.
Hmm.
I would trust your friends; this sounds kind of like that the "you're rude" accusations are coming just from this one person whom you've only known for 6 months. So I wouldn't say that this is necessarily as much of an Iron-Clad Assessment of personality; rather, it sounds more like something about your personal comportment style just doesn't mesh with hers as easily.
So if it's just this one person (and I strongly suspect it is), I would just watch yourself around her a little bit, and if you get some more friction, then you can follow up with "....yeah, somehow I'm being really clumsy about how you and I are getting along, and I'd like to do something about it. Are there any general tips you'd like me to keep in mind so things go more smoothly between us?"
Or something like that. But I really wouldn't take this as a confirmation of you being "rude" overall, but rather just something about you and she not meshing specifically. (I mean, hell, I had a customer service guy accuse me of being "rude" yesterday because he had his headphones turned all the way up and he thought i was "yelling". I wouldn't take his opinion as law as a result.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:22 PM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
I would trust your friends; this sounds kind of like that the "you're rude" accusations are coming just from this one person whom you've only known for 6 months. So I wouldn't say that this is necessarily as much of an Iron-Clad Assessment of personality; rather, it sounds more like something about your personal comportment style just doesn't mesh with hers as easily.
So if it's just this one person (and I strongly suspect it is), I would just watch yourself around her a little bit, and if you get some more friction, then you can follow up with "....yeah, somehow I'm being really clumsy about how you and I are getting along, and I'd like to do something about it. Are there any general tips you'd like me to keep in mind so things go more smoothly between us?"
Or something like that. But I really wouldn't take this as a confirmation of you being "rude" overall, but rather just something about you and she not meshing specifically. (I mean, hell, I had a customer service guy accuse me of being "rude" yesterday because he had his headphones turned all the way up and he thought i was "yelling". I wouldn't take his opinion as law as a result.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:22 PM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don't know, it seems like if you're asking her to coffee as a friend that's one thing, but if you're just going to be using her as your un-paid emotional-labor therapist problem-solver, that is inappropriate; that sounds like a job for her, trying to be disguised by a cup of "free" coffee.
posted by blueberry at 2:25 PM on February 21, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by blueberry at 2:25 PM on February 21, 2018 [10 favorites]
Response by poster: blerghamot:
The incident today: I was explaining something and the person interrupted me to finish my sentence, but what she was saying was not correct. This wasn't about a big thing that was important for me to communicate precisely, but I still said "let me finish" in an abrupt way. If I had been her, I would have thought I was out of order. As for what the other incidents where she felt I was rude could have been, I have literally no idea.
With the other person last year, the problem was that I had asked her casual "getting to know you" questions more than once and had forgotten the answers/forgotten I'd even asked, which she interpreted as me not respecting her, instead of me just being clumsy and forgetful. I don't think this is what happened with the person today, as I honestly have barely had any conversations with her.
posted by mymbleth at 2:30 PM on February 21, 2018
The incident today: I was explaining something and the person interrupted me to finish my sentence, but what she was saying was not correct. This wasn't about a big thing that was important for me to communicate precisely, but I still said "let me finish" in an abrupt way. If I had been her, I would have thought I was out of order. As for what the other incidents where she felt I was rude could have been, I have literally no idea.
With the other person last year, the problem was that I had asked her casual "getting to know you" questions more than once and had forgotten the answers/forgotten I'd even asked, which she interpreted as me not respecting her, instead of me just being clumsy and forgetful. I don't think this is what happened with the person today, as I honestly have barely had any conversations with her.
posted by mymbleth at 2:30 PM on February 21, 2018
I would definitely not send an email. Next time you see her, you might say, "I'm sorry I had to run last time we talked. Do you have a few minutes now/sometime this week/Tuesday after class? I'd love to buy you a cup of coffee." If she says no, let it go; this is awkward for her, too. If she says yes, start by saying again that you're sorry for being rude, and that you hadn't realized that you'd done it before. Gently ask what kinds of things she'd noticed--since this is a professional environment and you don't want to be disrespectful without realizing it. Let her change the subject if she wants to, in which case, you've bought her a cup of coffee and given her a good apology, even if you don't get an explanation out of it.
posted by gideonfrog at 2:31 PM on February 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by gideonfrog at 2:31 PM on February 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
have barely had any conversations with her.
That you remember. You forgot the ones before with the other person apparently.
I agree with blueberry on the she’s-not-your-coach part, and upon your follow-up I suspect you need to do some self-assessment on why you were rude today, and how whatever motivated you today may have manifested before. Not respecting other people, if that is the root, is a problem. Being clumsy isn’t. You should be apologizing for the root of your rudeness, not the act itself.
posted by dness2 at 2:41 PM on February 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
That you remember. You forgot the ones before with the other person apparently.
I agree with blueberry on the she’s-not-your-coach part, and upon your follow-up I suspect you need to do some self-assessment on why you were rude today, and how whatever motivated you today may have manifested before. Not respecting other people, if that is the root, is a problem. Being clumsy isn’t. You should be apologizing for the root of your rudeness, not the act itself.
posted by dness2 at 2:41 PM on February 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
To be honest, she sounds kinda rude too:
(A) She did interrupt you, prompting you to be slightly snappish. Snappish isn't ok, but neither is interrupting you. People who interrupt (and I say this as someone who interrupts) should learn that sometimes others will show irritation at their interruptions. I would never get mad at someone for asserting a boundary that I should interrupt them less. They're correct. I won't always be able to interrupt them less as I sometimes have poor self-control when I get conversationally excited and it's a difficult trait to re-wire... but I don't get pissy when others object to my interruptions because I know that that the conflict is a symptom of MY bad interrupting trait, not their "snappishness". They're only responding to me being an ass first.
(B) It was also a bit "rude" of her to counter your apology by telling you you've been rude at other times. Well, rude isn't exactly the word for that kind of behaviour- maybe better to call it a somewhat shitty power play. A more "polite" way to respond to your apology would have been to accept the apology and not mention any other instances. Or, a more "mature" way to manage the whole relationship would have been to talk to you about whatever rudeness you may have committed, as it happened or soon after. Not calling it out until you were apologizing is actually a bit petty and shitty.
Soo... it's great that you're self-reflecting, and I would never discourage that... but also keep in mind it's totally possible that she might just kinda be an asshole who argues dirty.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 2:43 PM on February 21, 2018 [76 favorites]
(A) She did interrupt you, prompting you to be slightly snappish. Snappish isn't ok, but neither is interrupting you. People who interrupt (and I say this as someone who interrupts) should learn that sometimes others will show irritation at their interruptions. I would never get mad at someone for asserting a boundary that I should interrupt them less. They're correct. I won't always be able to interrupt them less as I sometimes have poor self-control when I get conversationally excited and it's a difficult trait to re-wire... but I don't get pissy when others object to my interruptions because I know that that the conflict is a symptom of MY bad interrupting trait, not their "snappishness". They're only responding to me being an ass first.
(B) It was also a bit "rude" of her to counter your apology by telling you you've been rude at other times. Well, rude isn't exactly the word for that kind of behaviour- maybe better to call it a somewhat shitty power play. A more "polite" way to respond to your apology would have been to accept the apology and not mention any other instances. Or, a more "mature" way to manage the whole relationship would have been to talk to you about whatever rudeness you may have committed, as it happened or soon after. Not calling it out until you were apologizing is actually a bit petty and shitty.
Soo... it's great that you're self-reflecting, and I would never discourage that... but also keep in mind it's totally possible that she might just kinda be an asshole who argues dirty.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 2:43 PM on February 21, 2018 [76 favorites]
Unless you're in the middle of a long monologue why would it be out of order to tell someone to let you finish when they interrupt you mid-sentence? The interruption was the actual offence, she is just trying to raise a tone argument to make you second-guess yourself.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:53 PM on February 21, 2018 [21 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:53 PM on February 21, 2018 [21 favorites]
Thank you for asking this question.
In casual conversation, I interrupted someone last week and was told that I always cut her off, with this one person in particular. She stormed off, I later sent an electronic apology, saying that I valued our working relationship and that I would try to be more aware of my interactions in the future. (we share a front desk in a busy office and sit 4 feet apart all.day.long.every.single.day). My apology was not acknowledged and she has not spoken to me other than for work since Friday. She has accepted my coworker's apology and is speaking to that person, but is very strong willed and isn't going to back down on this.
For two years, she has told me, "cross me and I will never speak to you again". So now I sit in awkward power play silence and wonder if I should speak to colleagues when they stop by the desk,for fear of jumping in wrongly. I know that the situation will relax in time, but it's very uncomfortable right now.
All this to say, you apologized and can try to be mindful of your actions in the future. You can't control her reaction to / or thoughts about you.
posted by jennstra at 2:59 PM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
In casual conversation, I interrupted someone last week and was told that I always cut her off, with this one person in particular. She stormed off, I later sent an electronic apology, saying that I valued our working relationship and that I would try to be more aware of my interactions in the future. (we share a front desk in a busy office and sit 4 feet apart all.day.long.every.single.day). My apology was not acknowledged and she has not spoken to me other than for work since Friday. She has accepted my coworker's apology and is speaking to that person, but is very strong willed and isn't going to back down on this.
For two years, she has told me, "cross me and I will never speak to you again". So now I sit in awkward power play silence and wonder if I should speak to colleagues when they stop by the desk,for fear of jumping in wrongly. I know that the situation will relax in time, but it's very uncomfortable right now.
All this to say, you apologized and can try to be mindful of your actions in the future. You can't control her reaction to / or thoughts about you.
posted by jennstra at 2:59 PM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
Um, I actually think she was the rude one. She interrupted YOU, you were simply asking to continue the sentence you were halfway through! I think you embarrassed her when you called her on it, so she jumped all over your apology as a way to save face and act like you were the one in the wrong. I would absolutely not email her to apologise again. Now maybe your tone could have been better but then maybe she'll learn to be more polite next time too.
I can't comment on your other interactions but your friends already have and they know you, so I'd believe them. Of course, I could be wrong, who knows, maybe we are both rude and I just don't know it. But I'm on Team Mymbleth. I think you should be too.
posted by Jubey at 3:14 PM on February 21, 2018 [6 favorites]
I can't comment on your other interactions but your friends already have and they know you, so I'd believe them. Of course, I could be wrong, who knows, maybe we are both rude and I just don't know it. But I'm on Team Mymbleth. I think you should be too.
posted by Jubey at 3:14 PM on February 21, 2018 [6 favorites]
I have no idea if you're actually being rude to people. On the one hand, MFA type programs tend to be emotionally taxing and stressful, so people's hackles are already up and nerves on edge. On the other hand, two people in the same group calling you rude is kind of jarring.
Things you might reflect on:
Do you tend to dominate conversations in the program?
Are you long-winded in general? (This can be a kind of dominating of a conversation too.)
Do you actually respect these people (as mentioned above)?
Are you top of your class and maybe they're feeling insecure?
Do you forget things about everybody or just some people? If the latter, is there some kind of subconscious bias at play?
Do you tend to bump into people? (Sometimes being kind of oblivious of your surroundings feels rude.)
I have NO IDEA if these questions even apply to you tbh, but they're what come to mind given what you can tell us about the incidents. It could very well be that you've bumped up against two particularly sensitive or prickly people! Regardless, good on you for reflecting on it and good on you for standing up for yourself when interrupted. That is an important skill to have, especially as a woman.
posted by purple_bird at 3:40 PM on February 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
Things you might reflect on:
Do you tend to dominate conversations in the program?
Are you long-winded in general? (This can be a kind of dominating of a conversation too.)
Do you actually respect these people (as mentioned above)?
Are you top of your class and maybe they're feeling insecure?
Do you forget things about everybody or just some people? If the latter, is there some kind of subconscious bias at play?
Do you tend to bump into people? (Sometimes being kind of oblivious of your surroundings feels rude.)
I have NO IDEA if these questions even apply to you tbh, but they're what come to mind given what you can tell us about the incidents. It could very well be that you've bumped up against two particularly sensitive or prickly people! Regardless, good on you for reflecting on it and good on you for standing up for yourself when interrupted. That is an important skill to have, especially as a woman.
posted by purple_bird at 3:40 PM on February 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
I work with someone who talks so much you have to interrupt in order to participate. He doesn’t like being interrupted and I don’t like doing it, but he would straight up speak nonstop for 45 minutes if nobody cut him off. He’s not doing it maliciously, yet he is an adult and so I do think it’s rude he hasn’t bothered to develop this awareness. He also repeats what you’ve said as though it’s his idea, and asks stuff you’ve told him 100 times, which I find incredibly disrespectful. Is it possible you inadvertently dominate airtime?
Alternatively, are you a woman who deigns to be a fraction as assertive/brusque as a man? If so, that’ll get you all sorts of unfair labels.
posted by kapers at 4:11 PM on February 21, 2018 [18 favorites]
Alternatively, are you a woman who deigns to be a fraction as assertive/brusque as a man? If so, that’ll get you all sorts of unfair labels.
posted by kapers at 4:11 PM on February 21, 2018 [18 favorites]
I was explaining something and the person interrupted me to finish my sentence, but what she was saying was not correct.
To be honest, I think the last part of this is mostly irrelevant. The relevant part is that you were speaking and she interrupted you. (Her being incorrect is icing on top of the rudeness cake, but it's not the important bit.)
If you regret having been snappish, you could work on different ways of expressing the sentiment "I was not finished speaking; let me finish speaking before you start." But please do not let yourself get gaslighted into thinking that you're the rude one for expressing displeasure at being interrupted.
posted by Lexica at 4:17 PM on February 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
To be honest, I think the last part of this is mostly irrelevant. The relevant part is that you were speaking and she interrupted you. (Her being incorrect is icing on top of the rudeness cake, but it's not the important bit.)
If you regret having been snappish, you could work on different ways of expressing the sentiment "I was not finished speaking; let me finish speaking before you start." But please do not let yourself get gaslighted into thinking that you're the rude one for expressing displeasure at being interrupted.
posted by Lexica at 4:17 PM on February 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
What? She interrupted you, and when you told her to wait, it's turned into a larger drama in which you are the aggressor? This is bullshit.
I'm an interruptor (ok, a sentence-finisher, because I'm trying to demonstrate how we're thinking along the same lines and LOOK WE'RE FRIENDS and also New York Jew and there you go) and I'd be totally chastened if someone was snippy with me about it. Like, shit, my habit is so hurtful to people! I might even feel a little defensive, and if I were literally some other totally non-reflective person with no self-awareness at all I might consider calling the person rude. Fortunately I'm not. But sounds like she is! Flag it with an eyeroll and move on.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 4:41 PM on February 21, 2018 [10 favorites]
I'm an interruptor (ok, a sentence-finisher, because I'm trying to demonstrate how we're thinking along the same lines and LOOK WE'RE FRIENDS and also New York Jew and there you go) and I'd be totally chastened if someone was snippy with me about it. Like, shit, my habit is so hurtful to people! I might even feel a little defensive, and if I were literally some other totally non-reflective person with no self-awareness at all I might consider calling the person rude. Fortunately I'm not. But sounds like she is! Flag it with an eyeroll and move on.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 4:41 PM on February 21, 2018 [10 favorites]
Beyond the fact that you don't sound particularly rude in this incident, some people are more direct than others, and that directness can be taken as rudeness. I have this problem. I don't consider my behavior rude but I am direct with people in a way that some find upsetting. I am not sure there is an easy solution. Even with years of softening my style for other professional reasons I'm still pretty direct and sometimes it causes friction between me and acquaintances who are uncomfortable with it. I guess if you are really worried, I would pay attention to the times you want to be direct with someone (particularly if you're feeling irritated or otherwise not in the best mood) and try to be conscious of how you address the person with that directness.
posted by ch1x0r at 5:13 PM on February 21, 2018
posted by ch1x0r at 5:13 PM on February 21, 2018
I think she is not looking for a reconciliation and an attempt at one will be perceived poorly. Usually "hey that was rude and you have previously been rude to me" is a "please leave me alone, I don't want further interaction with you" from someone who's not used to being confrontational. I think the best response to this is to internalize two semi-conflicting messages:
1) I'm not going to get along with everyone or rub everyone the right way and that's okay.
2) I will think more intentionally about my behavior and how it affects others.
I would also guess that a big part of this is that you are kind of a direct and no-nonsense person, which 90% of the time is not rude, including your example of saying "I wasn't finished" when someone interrupts you. Just because it's coming from other women doesn't mean it is not about gender bias. One thing you can look out for is whether you tend to get into arguments where you won't back off, or if you tend to shut people down, but I'm not sure that's what's happening. (Disclaimer for this comment: I'm female and have a direct and assertive personality type, especially in work settings.)
posted by capricorn at 5:44 PM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
1) I'm not going to get along with everyone or rub everyone the right way and that's okay.
2) I will think more intentionally about my behavior and how it affects others.
I would also guess that a big part of this is that you are kind of a direct and no-nonsense person, which 90% of the time is not rude, including your example of saying "I wasn't finished" when someone interrupts you. Just because it's coming from other women doesn't mean it is not about gender bias. One thing you can look out for is whether you tend to get into arguments where you won't back off, or if you tend to shut people down, but I'm not sure that's what's happening. (Disclaimer for this comment: I'm female and have a direct and assertive personality type, especially in work settings.)
posted by capricorn at 5:44 PM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
It sounds like you're less interested in "who's right" about whether or not you were rude, and more interested in how to better understand the variety of social situations you encounter. It's possible and maybe likely, as folks are pointing out, that this is a case of rudeness and/or unreasonable expectations on a few people's part, and nothing "wrong" with you at all! But there will be more people like the people you've encountered, and I think it's sensible to see if you can figure out where you're offending them.
Depending on the culture in your program, I think it'd be very reasonable to ask the student you snapped at to meet for coffee to discuss the previous incidents. I wouldn't frame it as a chance for you to apologize for those properly, but as a very straightforward request for help understanding social situations. Say what you said here - you're concerned about how you come across, want to learn to do better, and would be very grateful to hear criticism in more detail if she's willing to provide it. As with most relationship questions, you couldn't do much better than providing a link to this question.
Yes, it's a request for her time to help you with a thing that is really just your thing; yes, it's a weird request; just acknowledge it and your appreciation appropriately. (And don't then ask for a standing Monday coffee date to discuss your progress.) "Advice that benefits one party" characterizes lots of student-student interactions and a request on the order of an hour or so is not out of line IMO. Just give her a clear out so it's not too awkward for her if she'd rather not have this conversation.
(I'd be a little wary of taking either (a) our or (b) your friends' interpretations as ground truth here. In our case, we've only heard your side. In your friends' case, they're self-selected as people who get along with you. It's completely fine if not everyone likes interacting with you! But if there might be a reasonably large swath of people who are being put off, and for some dumb reason you're happy to change, then one person who's willing to discuss it is a stroke of luck on the order of that one person who tells you that your perfume is too strong.)
posted by cogitron at 6:24 PM on February 21, 2018
Depending on the culture in your program, I think it'd be very reasonable to ask the student you snapped at to meet for coffee to discuss the previous incidents. I wouldn't frame it as a chance for you to apologize for those properly, but as a very straightforward request for help understanding social situations. Say what you said here - you're concerned about how you come across, want to learn to do better, and would be very grateful to hear criticism in more detail if she's willing to provide it. As with most relationship questions, you couldn't do much better than providing a link to this question.
Yes, it's a request for her time to help you with a thing that is really just your thing; yes, it's a weird request; just acknowledge it and your appreciation appropriately. (And don't then ask for a standing Monday coffee date to discuss your progress.) "Advice that benefits one party" characterizes lots of student-student interactions and a request on the order of an hour or so is not out of line IMO. Just give her a clear out so it's not too awkward for her if she'd rather not have this conversation.
(I'd be a little wary of taking either (a) our or (b) your friends' interpretations as ground truth here. In our case, we've only heard your side. In your friends' case, they're self-selected as people who get along with you. It's completely fine if not everyone likes interacting with you! But if there might be a reasonably large swath of people who are being put off, and for some dumb reason you're happy to change, then one person who's willing to discuss it is a stroke of luck on the order of that one person who tells you that your perfume is too strong.)
posted by cogitron at 6:24 PM on February 21, 2018
What? She interrupted you, and when you told her to wait, it's turned into a larger drama in which you are the aggressor? This is bullshit.
Yep. I came here to say exactly this. She didn't like the fact that you drew attention to her own rude behaviour and now she's trying to keep you in a one-down position.
You've already apologized for the single incident in which you violated your own standards. I'd recommend leaving it there.
posted by rpfields at 7:16 PM on February 21, 2018 [8 favorites]
Yep. I came here to say exactly this. She didn't like the fact that you drew attention to her own rude behaviour and now she's trying to keep you in a one-down position.
You've already apologized for the single incident in which you violated your own standards. I'd recommend leaving it there.
posted by rpfields at 7:16 PM on February 21, 2018 [8 favorites]
You have to be you. She's gotta be her. Sometimes temperaments clash. No one's fault, but it happens.
You have already apologized, and over-doing it is belabouring the point and bringing back bad memories. Apologies are not cumulative; so I would now drop the matter.
But perhaps you are looking for a way to prevent hurt feelings in the future, and there is a concept I live by: omoiyari, the Japanese concept of altruism and thoughtfulness. It helps to be aware of the environment, be sensitive, and be honest as you put the best of yourself forward.
Being environment-centred, rather than just me-centred brings connection, and then finding the kinder way of doing things becomes easier.
The fact that you are distressed is a sign you are a nice person. Do not be a doormat and always think someone is right calling you rude: sometimes people are bullies and when you do not always applaud them, they lay it on you.
When you are aware of your surroundings, you develop a feel of the difference, and you gain confidence. Know yourself, be yourself, and let others be themselves around you.
Good luck!
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 7:19 PM on February 21, 2018 [5 favorites]
You have already apologized, and over-doing it is belabouring the point and bringing back bad memories. Apologies are not cumulative; so I would now drop the matter.
But perhaps you are looking for a way to prevent hurt feelings in the future, and there is a concept I live by: omoiyari, the Japanese concept of altruism and thoughtfulness. It helps to be aware of the environment, be sensitive, and be honest as you put the best of yourself forward.
Being environment-centred, rather than just me-centred brings connection, and then finding the kinder way of doing things becomes easier.
The fact that you are distressed is a sign you are a nice person. Do not be a doormat and always think someone is right calling you rude: sometimes people are bullies and when you do not always applaud them, they lay it on you.
When you are aware of your surroundings, you develop a feel of the difference, and you gain confidence. Know yourself, be yourself, and let others be themselves around you.
Good luck!
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 7:19 PM on February 21, 2018 [5 favorites]
pseudostrabismus has this, hands down.
posted by itsflyable at 8:07 PM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by itsflyable at 8:07 PM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
I was explaining something and the person interrupted me to finish my sentence, but what she was saying was not correct.
To be honest, I think the last part of this is mostly irrelevant. The relevant part is that you were speaking and she interrupted you. (Her being incorrect is icing on top of the rudeness cake, but it's not the important bit.)
I really, really disagree with this. Or at least, I really really disagree that it's a fait accompli that it must be the case that other person was being rude period end sentence. One can be 'correct' without presenting the correct information in a way that is useful to the listener. Without any other context given, I don't think we can ignore that it's entirely possible that she interrupted OP because she saw that the audience was not receptive or able to understand the message as it was being delivered and felt it was important to reframe the information being given. Perhaps in a way that was less technically correct but more accessible. She may have been interrupting in a way that she saw as HELPFUL to the OP, which would make it that much more upsetting to her to get this reaction.
I don't know that to be the case, of course, but I say that as someone who spent much of my young adult life focusing on being technically correct, at least in part because I was very good at abstraction and logic, and I wasn't so good with people, so it was both easier and more self-validating to focus on that. But I think it's worth recognizing that is not the only possible approach or priority to human interaction, and we really haven't been given enough information here to say she was wrong to intervene.
And that impression is reinforced by the other interaction described, especially with the OP saying that is "just" social clumsiness. Social awareness is very important to some people, and it's very dismissive to say you were just being socially clumsy as if that's obviously no big deal - to some people it is a very big deal (again, this is author insertion - it's a problem I'm very aware of because I'm guilty of it!). Maybe your friends are being helpful in telling you you're a-ok - but maybe they just also have similar communication and social priorities to you, and by relying on their opinion you're minimizing the existence of other possible priorities.
So good for you for asking here! Maybe I'm totally wrong, but if I'm at all right, this should give you some more diverse perspectives than your friend group.
posted by solotoro at 8:23 PM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
To be honest, I think the last part of this is mostly irrelevant. The relevant part is that you were speaking and she interrupted you. (Her being incorrect is icing on top of the rudeness cake, but it's not the important bit.)
I really, really disagree with this. Or at least, I really really disagree that it's a fait accompli that it must be the case that other person was being rude period end sentence. One can be 'correct' without presenting the correct information in a way that is useful to the listener. Without any other context given, I don't think we can ignore that it's entirely possible that she interrupted OP because she saw that the audience was not receptive or able to understand the message as it was being delivered and felt it was important to reframe the information being given. Perhaps in a way that was less technically correct but more accessible. She may have been interrupting in a way that she saw as HELPFUL to the OP, which would make it that much more upsetting to her to get this reaction.
I don't know that to be the case, of course, but I say that as someone who spent much of my young adult life focusing on being technically correct, at least in part because I was very good at abstraction and logic, and I wasn't so good with people, so it was both easier and more self-validating to focus on that. But I think it's worth recognizing that is not the only possible approach or priority to human interaction, and we really haven't been given enough information here to say she was wrong to intervene.
And that impression is reinforced by the other interaction described, especially with the OP saying that is "just" social clumsiness. Social awareness is very important to some people, and it's very dismissive to say you were just being socially clumsy as if that's obviously no big deal - to some people it is a very big deal (again, this is author insertion - it's a problem I'm very aware of because I'm guilty of it!). Maybe your friends are being helpful in telling you you're a-ok - but maybe they just also have similar communication and social priorities to you, and by relying on their opinion you're minimizing the existence of other possible priorities.
So good for you for asking here! Maybe I'm totally wrong, but if I'm at all right, this should give you some more diverse perspectives than your friend group.
posted by solotoro at 8:23 PM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
Interrupting or talking over someone is okay if there's some immediate threat to life or property that can be averted by getting your word in, and only by doing that.
In every other case, it is unforgivably friendship-endingly social-contract-breakingly exceedingly horribly rude. It is an aggressive, obvious and deliberate act of deep disrespect.
In your shoes, I would have either gotten drill-sergeant shouty or turned my back and walked out. You are the one owed an apology in this scenario.
posted by sourcequench at 8:45 PM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
In every other case, it is unforgivably friendship-endingly social-contract-breakingly exceedingly horribly rude. It is an aggressive, obvious and deliberate act of deep disrespect.
In your shoes, I would have either gotten drill-sergeant shouty or turned my back and walked out. You are the one owed an apology in this scenario.
posted by sourcequench at 8:45 PM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
It seems to me like you and this other student just rub each other up the wrong way a bit. You were both a bit rude, but it's hardly life changing stuff. I would just keep out of her way , you can't get on with anyone, and I don't think there is a person alive who hasn't been a bit rude to someone at some point in their life. Having a meeting to sort out your differences is just weird. You're not married to her!
posted by intensitymultiply at 12:07 AM on February 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by intensitymultiply at 12:07 AM on February 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
She complained that you'd been rude. You offered a sincere apology. No more conversation on that topic is required.
If you want to walk on eggshells around this person for a while and monitor her for signs she's interpreting your behaviour as rude then you might learn something by doing that, but you are under no kind of obligation to let her run your life for you.
I'm now feeling very upset and scared that I'm inadvertently coming across as rude to people I value having cordial relationships with.
I recommend trusting that if you're rude enough to cause actual upset, the person you've been rude to will let you know.
Just do your best to avoid talking shit about other people and you'll be fine.
posted by flabdablet at 9:31 AM on February 22, 2018
If you want to walk on eggshells around this person for a while and monitor her for signs she's interpreting your behaviour as rude then you might learn something by doing that, but you are under no kind of obligation to let her run your life for you.
I'm now feeling very upset and scared that I'm inadvertently coming across as rude to people I value having cordial relationships with.
I recommend trusting that if you're rude enough to cause actual upset, the person you've been rude to will let you know.
Just do your best to avoid talking shit about other people and you'll be fine.
posted by flabdablet at 9:31 AM on February 22, 2018
So despite consistent performance reviews that I am great to work with I have been accused of being rude by a couple of colleagues. These were people who barely knew me and also were very self-absorbed and sensitive, and used the word "always" a lot to refer to things that only occasionally happened. I don't know if this is what's going on here with you, but it could be. Some examples of what these things have been are: not making an effort to greet someone when they came in every morning when I was currently in a meeting with someone else or on the phone; "purposely" ignoring someone when she asked me for help from across the office (in these instances I genuinely never heard her and was clearly working); not asking someone about and taking an interest in her personal life (this is when we are work colleagues, okay, not in any sort of relationship); and not acknowledging someone in general (when I genuinely hadn't noticed her, despite acknowledging people whenever I do notice them).
I give you these examples to show that if you're doing things like that and your colleague is responding like that, there is NO WAY you could have known you were offending her. Also notice that in all of these examples the onus was on me to do something that my colleague wanted me to do but I had no idea she expected, that I think are kind of unreasonable, that she wasn't doing herself (eg I had to greet her first--she wasn't greeting me either) and where honestly her behavior was kind of rude (yelling at me from across the room and then getting mad that I didn't come to her? Expecting me to stop talking to someone in a meeting to focus on her?) and that her interpretation of my behavior was very, very self-absorbed, and provided no room or understanding for why I might be behaving that way--she made it all about her.
Your colleague was rude, you called her out on it and corrected her, this certainly embarrassed her, but when you apologized she also should have apologized. Instead she told you that you're rude a lot. I think she's blaming you here because she feels bad. I wouldn't email her. Just be courteous to her.
posted by Polychrome at 10:51 AM on February 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
I give you these examples to show that if you're doing things like that and your colleague is responding like that, there is NO WAY you could have known you were offending her. Also notice that in all of these examples the onus was on me to do something that my colleague wanted me to do but I had no idea she expected, that I think are kind of unreasonable, that she wasn't doing herself (eg I had to greet her first--she wasn't greeting me either) and where honestly her behavior was kind of rude (yelling at me from across the room and then getting mad that I didn't come to her? Expecting me to stop talking to someone in a meeting to focus on her?) and that her interpretation of my behavior was very, very self-absorbed, and provided no room or understanding for why I might be behaving that way--she made it all about her.
Your colleague was rude, you called her out on it and corrected her, this certainly embarrassed her, but when you apologized she also should have apologized. Instead she told you that you're rude a lot. I think she's blaming you here because she feels bad. I wouldn't email her. Just be courteous to her.
posted by Polychrome at 10:51 AM on February 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
I have a friend with a hearing impairment who's kind of a slow talker. We live far away from each other, and I get out of practice with my stifling skills and in the first day or two of a visit will finish her sentences 'til I get trained out of it again. It's so stupid, because I'm never right about what she was going to say, ever, because she's brilliant and says fabulously unexpected things. Plus we get into some horrible feedback loop because inevitably, because she was talking not trying to listen, she'll mishear my sentence-finishing bullshit and we'll have to stop and clear up the confusion so it's even longer to get back to what she was trying to say. Luckily she has a working short term memory, unlike me, so she usually can trace her way back and make her brilliant utterance. But why? Why do that to her, and why do that to the conversation? It's like you're dancing with somebody in perfect harmony and for no reason you suddenly say to yourself, "Now's a good time to just full-bore stomp on her foot!" There is NO QUESTION that I'm being abysmally rude in those moments, and I'm always covered in shame about it. She points it out with humor and patience, but if she did lose her patience it would not be unreasonable. At all. She doesn't get annoyed because it's obvious I'm doing it for the same reason chesty_a_arthur does: " I'm trying to demonstrate how we're thinking along the same lines and LOOK WE'RE FRIENDS." But it's still rude! Interrupting! RUDE!
posted by Don Pepino at 12:50 PM on February 22, 2018
posted by Don Pepino at 12:50 PM on February 22, 2018
It seems they're perhaps overly sensitive or proper? I completely understand that it's considered rude by many, but having been around adhd people my whole life it's essentially become somewhat of a joke to refer to our conversations as, "a series of interruptions," and just go with the flow.
In the case of perpetual interruptors/talker-overs it seems more appropriate to attempt to work around it, ie. take mental notes and deliver them after/later, pull out a phone or piece of paper and write this down etc. rather than take personal offense to that which many can't often help and label them off as "rude" people.
posted by OnefortheLast at 1:55 PM on February 22, 2018
In the case of perpetual interruptors/talker-overs it seems more appropriate to attempt to work around it, ie. take mental notes and deliver them after/later, pull out a phone or piece of paper and write this down etc. rather than take personal offense to that which many can't often help and label them off as "rude" people.
posted by OnefortheLast at 1:55 PM on February 22, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by blerghamot at 2:20 PM on February 21, 2018