Mean, Green, What has Hawkeye seen?
January 21, 2018 2:42 PM   Subscribe

I have a question related to Marvel's "Civil War II" comic book event. Spoilers behind the jump.

My preferred answer to this question would be guidance as to which comics to read, rather than just "the answer", if you get what I mean. I have read the main Civil War II series books, but I have not managed to get through all the tie ins yet. I have read any specifically Hulk and Hawkeye tie-ins there might have been, as far as I can tell. I have not read further into "Totally Awesome Hulk", although I probably will at some point.

OK, Amadeus Cho is supposed to have cured Bruce Banner of being the Hulk. But the Inhuman Ulysses had a vision of Banner Hulking out and going on a rampage, so Captain Marvel and her team went after Banner. Then, during the confrontation, Hawkeye saw something (in Banner's eyes?) leading him to believe there was danger of Hulking out, so Hawkeye killed Banner with Banner's special arrow.

I realize that at some point Ulysses's visions stopped being predictions and started being insight into alternate universes (I think. Naturally the ending was less interesting and clear than the opening, like every major comic book story, but I digress). But was there any clarification as to whether Cho's cure had stopped working? What did Hawkeye see? Who was right and who was wrong? This is the contradiction I'm looking to have clarified. Which books should I read to find the answer to this question? Or has it not been addressed yet?

Thanks.
posted by themanwho to Media & Arts (3 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
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posted by DarlingBri at 3:54 PM on January 21, 2018


I could be wrong since I only read the mini-series itself, but I think the answer was contained entirely in Civil War II #3. Hawkeye saw Banner's eyes start to change to green, indicating a transformation was imminent and so killed him. He not only says this, you can see the dot of green in two panels: right before he's shot, and when Hawkeye recalls this in court.

I'm not familiar with Cho's cure; in Civil War II, the Beast reveals Banner was experimentally injecting himself with treated dead gamma cells that suppressed his transformation. This freaked out a lot of his friends, as they saw his experiments as being responsible for initially creating the Hulk.

You can see the details here and here.
posted by millions at 4:22 PM on January 21, 2018


I am very new to comics, but I did just finish reading Civil War II (both the main title and a bunch of tie-in issues from other titles). Because I'm new, I'm not aware of the backstory of Amadeus Cho curing Banner, but my reading of the danger Banner posed was similar to millions: everyone was freaked out that Banner was experimenting on himself, which they saw as a potential threat. Maybe this experimenting interfered with whatever Cho's cure was?

To your middle question, I believe they did clarify the nature of Ulysses's visions, and it wasn't that they were visions into alternate universes. Rather, they were probabilistic predictions based on information that Ulysses received. In other words, they were things that Ulysses was certain would happen, but that weren't actually certain to.

I think that's why there's never a clear moment when everyone comes to a consensus about whether what Hawkeye did was right or wrong—it all comes down to whether or not you think a probabilistic prediction of future behavior merits preventive action, or whether you think you can't punish someone for something they haven't done.

The business about whether or not Hawkeye actually saw green or not is sort of a red herring. Like Ulysses, Hawkeye is sure that what he sees is the truth, but it's not possible to verify either of their visions in advance. (And by taking action Hawkeye made it impossible to ever do so; fwiw I disagree that you can clearly see green in the panel millions is talking about. I think it's deliberately ambiguous whether the green is him turning or just part of the light reflecting off his eyes.) The real question is: do you act on a judgement before or after it has been confirmed? Civil War II deliberately doesn't provide an answer.

To your final question, I think the best discussions about this conflict happen in the tie-in issues of Captain Marvel and Invincible Iron Man, since those two characters are the consistent poles on either side of the debate.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 1:29 PM on January 24, 2018


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