can we still be friends?!

December 2, 2017 5:52 AM

Me: a queer woman of colour, dealing with anxiety and a host of random ailments. You:burly straight white man. We've been really good friends for years. I think we are both having a hard time with the differences between our experiences in life, and the different decisions we both have had to make. Can we still be friends? if so, how?

In our 20s we hung out a ton. We'd drink ourselves silly; we'd smoke; we'd throw more caution to the wind than we should. We had the best of bromance.

You've been my closest friend and confidant for years-- you were there when I was heartbroken, when I experience racism and homophobia and misogyny, and you see the anxiety these things produce in me. I was there when you didn't have words for the profound loss you experienced, so you drink and listen to country music all night. I was there when you were utterly helpless, and the only tool anyone has ever given you was to feign arrogance.

And then 30 hits, and it's 2017. I cleaned up my act and my appearance because I've lost the ability to even pretend to mess around. I developed chronic illness and food intolerances and an anxiety disorder and keep a regimented routine and diet to be functional. I spend more time with other women, other queers, and other POCs, to commiserate and to organize.

I can see in your face that you want to know where you buddy went, and you don't fully understand why I am suddenly no fun anymore. I can see that you are insecure about the changes I've made and you haven't. I can see that you are doing your very best to be woke, and sometimes it hurts your feelings that your best in this regard isn't quite enough. I can see that you are confused and hurt when I am resentful of the jokes you've made about my disorders. Or when I refused your proposal that we stay out till 4 and then hitchhike home like the old days. Or when I can't talk to you for a week because things happened exactly as the cautionary tales go, our boss considered my 150% to be roughly equivalent of your "shit, I forgot, I guess I'll improvise."

You know I mourn the impossibility of this friendship, too, right?

And is it impossible, dear hive mind?

posted by atetrachordofthree to Human Relations (17 answers total)

I can see that you are doing your very best to be woke, and sometimes it hurts your feelings that your best in this regard isn't quite enough.

If he is doing his best and that isn't enough for you, then I don't think this friendship can be saved right now. People change and grow at different points in their lives - especially at the age you're describing - college/party/fun is over, time to be an adult. People reach this point at different times when they're ready to grow up. If you have had a great friendship until this, my advice would be to do the slow drift away for now - don't burn any bridges with confrontation. Keep the door open; who knows in a few years your lives will be more compatible to each other.
posted by NoraCharles at 6:05 AM on December 2, 2017 [6 favorites]

Oh geez. I hope it's not impossible, because if it's impossible then why do we even fight for better days?

All I can suggest is that you reminisce about the good old days together. Show this guy that you value your shared past. That it matters to you, and you care for him and his happiness, even if you are not as close as you were then. That you knew he would make an effort, even if it's not perfect, because you know he's a good guy. That respect and care is possible even when life takes you down different paths.

Remind him of his hopes for the future, and that you know him in ways that casual acquaintances don't. And then (if you have the spoons or round tuits or whatever, because that's not always a given) remind him that however difficult his path is, yours has more obstacles and deserves just as much care and respect as his. And that you hope he'll be strong enough to step up, but understanding if he can't. And if he can't, you'll be looking for the support of those who can.

I don't have answers, just empathy. Whatever you do, I'm sure it will be the best possible option in a world of shitty choices.
posted by harriet vane at 6:14 AM on December 2, 2017 [10 favorites]

Have you two talked about the changes in your lives and how they impact your friendship?

You can tell him that you still care about him, you miss your friendship and you love the memories you used to have. You can tell him that right now you're both moving in different directions and what you want from friendship has changed.

It sounds like he's struggling to accept the reality that friendship as it used to be isn't working anymore, and he keeps trying to re-create the sense of connection and fun you used to have by inviting you to do things you used to do. It also sounds like he hasn't quite grown up in way you have, because he hasn't had to yet.

You could make counter offers if you want to - you can't drink until 4, but you can have coffee on Saturday morning. Or like NoraCharles says, you might drift apart for a while and find yourself able to be close again in the future.
posted by bunderful at 6:21 AM on December 2, 2017 [4 favorites]

Find an activity to share, so you can reconnect but do not rely on conversations about shared life experiences. I suggest a collaborative (not competitive) board game of some sort, like the new Pandemic series that progresses in chapters. The great thing about games is that they magnify certain parts of your personality, and if you’re working towards a shared goal with him, it may be easier to remember what you love about each other—ultimately creating a stronger foundation on which to rebuild your friendship and have tough conversations.

Good luck. I found your post to be very moving; it’s clear you both want this to work.
posted by lieber hair at 6:35 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]

As a tall white guy having passed through these periods of life a while ago for relocation and various reason I certainly did not maintain any relationships and I occasionally mourn that loss. Another transition example frequently observed is the reduced contact between friends when some have toddlers and spouses to manage and less than zero time for friends of even a few months previous. Have an explicit conversation and be clear that you'll always be his friend but life, the world, the situation and you have changes. Try to find a way to "have coffee" at some regular interval to maintain contact. Use the contemporary social media tools appropriately. Good luck I'm envious of him having that kind of relationship for as long as you describe.
posted by sammyo at 6:40 AM on December 2, 2017 [2 favorites]

There is no need to impose this level of drama upon a change in terms of a platonic friendship. It's quite simple: "Buddy, it's not you, it's me: I just can't drink, smoke or go out late the way I could when we were kids. Next weekend let's get some burgers for lunch and hit up a matinee afterwards." Your friendship can thrive simply from him not being an asshole (which he would have to be reject that proposition).
posted by MattD at 6:56 AM on December 2, 2017 [31 favorites]

And then 30 hits, and it's 2017. I cleaned up my act and my appearance because I've lost the ability to even pretend to mess around.

As someone who made the same life transition, ignoring all of the other details here - most of the friends for whom hard drinking/drugs/self-destruction was our primary means of creating a connection are hardly my friends anymore. One of my very best friends, one who I thought really knew me and saw my struggles, it's hard to even hold a conversation anymore because all those discussions happened after 8 beers - something I don't do anymore.

Context matters for friendship, and maybe you've evolved in a way that makes it really tough to connect anymore. It happens, it's sad, but my thought has been - if it takes living unhealthily to keep some people in my life, I'm just going to lose some people in my life. Some things matter more.
posted by notorious medium at 6:59 AM on December 2, 2017 [5 favorites]

FWIW, I'm a man who had these types of relationships with other men through my twenties. And you are right that when 30 hits, a lot of us lost touch and some were ready for that and some weren't. You can't do what you did in your twenties forever. We have to grow up and be adults.

The good part is, now that I'm almost 50, is that when I do get together with these friends, some of whom I haven't seen for up to ten years at a time, it's always a pleasure. We concentrate on catching up and enjoying each others company and still consider each other good friends. We are just no longer friends who hang out every day and do the things we used to do. It is now new experiences to share.
posted by Roger Dodger at 7:01 AM on December 2, 2017 [8 favorites]

Would it be possible to show him what you wrote here? Or something like it? I think it's honest and kind.
posted by mcduff at 7:18 AM on December 2, 2017 [6 favorites]

Speaking as a burly straight white dude with 20 years more life experience than your friend:

Overall, it sounds like you haven't (yet) really had any serious discussions about these things, and it's possible the friendship can continue (in slightly altered form - NoraCharles is 100% right in people hitting different life stages at different times, and for a while this friendship might have to chug along in a far more casual, less intense form) if the two of you are willing to have some serious talks.

I cleaned up my act and my appearance because I've lost the ability to even pretend to mess around. I developed chronic illness and food intolerances and an anxiety disorder and keep a regimented routine and diet to be functional [. . .] you don't fully understand why I am suddenly no fun anymore [. ..]Or when I refused your proposal that we stay out till 4 and then hitchhike home like the old days.

Burly white men often benefit from a sort of unthinking rude good health (although the bill may come due hard after 40) - anxiety attacks and food intolerances and other medical things kind of aren't really on our radar. Hangovers and colds, yes; chronic illness, no. So unless you've had a sit-down "I have made these lifestyle changes specifically to get my physical and psychological shit together so I can function" discussion, it may not have even occurred to him that his buddy's changes have a medical root.

On the other hand, despite "medical problems" being a relatively alien concept, we're not unsympathetic, so once you give him the low down on why you've made a bunch of lifestyle changes, clue him in to the simple fact that staying out til 4 am has real medical consequences for you, he will (hopefully) be more than willing to change what you guys do together to accommodate your needs.

I spend more time with other women, other queers, and other POCs, to commiserate and to organize.

This is an important element of your self-care and growing maturity - it's also probably one of the reasons you're spending less time with him. It might be worth laying this out once, telling him plainly that while you value his friendship, you need to build contacts and get perspectives and knowledge from other minorities as part of figuring out your place in the world. How he reacts to this will be a big clue as to whether the relationship can be salvaged - if he's willing to give you space and time to do this, that's a good sign; if he balks and whines, well . . .

I can see that you are insecure about the changes I've made and you haven't.

This is 100% on him. His insecurities and how he deals with them are not under your control or even your influence, and are definitely not your responsibility. Again, how he deals with this is an important element in how the friendship functions going forward.

I can see that you are doing your very best to be woke, and sometimes it hurts your feelings that your best in this regard isn't quite enough. I can see that you are confused and hurt when I am resentful of the jokes you've made about my disorders.

Yup, it does really suck to realize that your efforts to be an ally are (to quote Fury Road) mediocre. And it takes some maturity to recognize that this suckiness is 100% not the fault of those you are trying to support, but your own damn problem. This can be a long road for straight white dudes.

And this is where things all depend on the character and willingness to self-examine of your friend, and can't really be answered by internet strangers. Maybe you guys have a lot of serious heavy talks about this stuff, maybe you guys let the friendship ratchet down a few notches, become more casual so you're not constantly having to deal with unintentional insults and having to be in "teaching mode" all the time, and he can work on his wokeness on his own time while still having a friend who can clue him in if he's going astray.

Best of luck to you both.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:35 AM on December 2, 2017 [14 favorites]

Turn this into a letter and send it to your friend.

However, be aware that losing friends (should it come to that) along the way is a part of life.
posted by Kwadeng at 7:52 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]

I hate that you're feeling bad enough to write here and try to solve this. It seems like a microcosm of male/female white/Black relationships; you do all the work and he gets all the reward. There's lots of good advice here but personally I'd just cut my losses and consider this guy a former friend. I'm sorry.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 8:30 AM on December 2, 2017 [3 favorites]

If you're doing the lionshare of emotional labor and he's not reciprocating and doing his share, I'd move on. Party friends are often context friends. Yes, you can get very close and share more than partying, but once the backbone of partying falls away, the rest often crumbles. You're at the age when this happens a lot. It's OK to read the writing on the wall and move on. A friendship based on reminiscing about the old days and enduring insensitive jokes about what you're going through now isn't something to hold on to.
posted by quince at 8:52 AM on December 2, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm a queer white woman, and my very best friend is a burly, surly white guy full of spit and vinegar about the world. In our twenties, we had trouble seeing eye to eye about queer issues, or issues of structural inequality when it came to race rather than class, etc; it was only that his ethos worldview wasn't quite expansive enough yet. At some point in our early thirties, a lot clicked into place for both of us, and we both became better people. Magical 2AMs of drunken bromance ensued. But over the past few years he's been sick and depressed, making major lifestyle changes that involve cutting down on vices, and I'm the one who's mourning our lost late nights in which I bummed one hundred cigarettes off of him, our endless gchat conversations. At this point, though, we're close enough that we know we'll honor and respect and admire one another for the long haul, even if our values and lifestyles aren't always in sync with one another.

In our case, though, we haven't lived in the same city since 2008, so most of our wondrous adventures take place over one- or two-week visits once a year or so. That leaves us lots of time to fall in and out of touch in the meanwhile, and have our own lives. I miss him a lot, on the regular (and I know he misses me), but I appreciate that when we don't quite click for a while, it's alright.

I'd suggest that now doesn't have to be a make or break moment for your friendship with this guy -- it can be, but it can also be a moment to take time off from one another, and come back older and wiser and better suited to the nuances of each other's lives in a few months or years. It's 2017, which means you've had to deal with an incredible amount of bullshit, but also that much of this bullshit is visible to majority culture (i.e. straight people, white people, dudes) in ways it wasn't ten or twenty years ago, and he's much more well-positioned to learn from it and come out the other side a better friend to you. There may well be ways you'll never be able to connect as well as you could have in your twenties, but you may also be surprised at the growth and learning he's capable of over the next few years. It's not your problem to teach him (good lord, no -- your responsibility to him as a friend, if you choose it and if it feels good and heartening for you, is to help him iron out the small details; he's gotta come to the larger realizations on his own), but it may be worth it to hang in there -- not as a daily or weekly hangout buddy necessarily, but as someone who's still in the warm periphery of his life--to see who he becomes as he gets older and hopefully wiser.
posted by tapir-whorf at 9:30 AM on December 2, 2017 [4 favorites]

You guys are just 30? He might hit the "clean up my life" thing a few years later. But that only helps with part of your question.
posted by salvia at 10:35 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]

It is really hard to be friends with people who have substantially more systemic privilege than you. You're not being too hard on him at all.

He needs to check his shit and recognize that you're playing life on a harder difficulty mode than he is. No jokes about you being ill. Sympathy is nice but backup and boosts are much more important when your boss cracks down on you. (Kinda sounds like you have the same boss? A real friend would speak up for you at work.)

I've hugely minimized the amount of energy I allot to friendships where the systemic power imbalance is this large- eventually they tend to cause me more pain than pleasure.

Nurture your other friendships more instead- they will feed you with better-quality connection.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 12:07 PM on December 2, 2017

I've angsted a lot over a not-dissimilar friendship, where my friend has stayed effectively single (living alone; very poly) & been very career-focused; I have married, bought a house, had babies, and stopped working outside the home. We don't have the same kind of disparity that you and your friend have, but our lives have gone in dramatically different directions. He's one of my most beloved friends, but our friendship simply had to change. We get together every few months to catch up, reminisce, and enjoy a shared activity (eating really, really good food), but it doesn't work for us to be in each others' lives on a daily or even several-times-a-week basis. We haven't talked about this.

I miss him -- I needed to take time to mourn the change in our friendship so that I could actually enjoy the time we spent together, rather than trying to recapture the past. I don't think our changing friendship is a bad thing. He is still an important person in my life, but he's not the same kind of priority he used to be. And that's okay.
posted by linettasky at 2:03 PM on December 2, 2017 [2 favorites]