Help me understand what happened and how to deal with the breakup
July 17, 2017 9:02 PM Subscribe
I don't understand how this relationship started off promising and then went so bad
So it's been over a month since he left, but I'm still struggling to understand how all this happened.
I only have had two relationships in my life. The first one, although much longer at 8.5 years, was in a way easier to accept when it ended because that ex emotionally cheated on me. This second one though, I'm having a very hard time processing it. It all started 3.5 years ago when I started to like one of my friend's roommates. We both flirted and got closer over four months, and then finally I had the nerve to ask him to walk me home. He told me he liked me, and I told him I liked too .. and the chemistry and connection that we both had was extremely strong. We would talk hours into the night for the first several months ... I never felt such a strong connection to someone - I felt like I found someone who truly understood me and we were even talking about the future (e.g., marriage eventually).
However, at the six month point, he started texting me less, and I started texting him less. He also stopped bringing little gifts, so I told him that I was feeling less attention from him. He said that it's natural, that he will be less attentive over time as the relationship progresses. I said that couples should continue being attentive with the little things .. and then he said that he can't make me happy and we should break up. I said no, and so he stayed, the texting and gifts returned to normal (although I don't know if he was happy about it?). But I felt something had changed because he was ready to break up so easily ...
I moved to another city about 9 months into the relationship, and over the next 2.5 years, we had many fights over some big issues (he really wants children, even if it means that me and him will have no retirement savings as he expected the children to take care of us) and some little ones (like we had a spat over me not understanding a word he was saying). These fights usually ended with him concluding that we are fundamentally incompatible and me saying no, relationships take work. I started feeling insecure about whether he was committed, so I started refusing to compromise, telling him that he can leave if doesn't want to do it my way. I was complaining about him over time too - for example, he often interrupted me when I was talking and he was a vaper, so sometimes we would cuddle or talk and he'd suddenly go and vape. A lot of it was hygiene related, like he would only brush his teeth once a day and he used to wear underwear for 2-3 days straight. Some other stuff was just me being nitpicky (e.g., for him to eat less salt, for him to exercise a bit, to dress better). . The strange thing is, he rarely complained about me. In fact, we were both showing less and less physical affection (his love language is physical touch) over the years, and when I asked him doesn't it bother him, he said that he will accept whatever I am ready to give him. Finally, one month ago, I was trying to change him to eat less meat and he just lost it. He said that he is 100% sure that he wants to leave. And he has kept his word since. He said that I just make him stressed out (he is naturally a very calm and peaceful person) and he is done.
So I have a few questions regarding this relationship, since I'm just so confused right now about what went on for the last 3.5 years:
1. How can a relationship that felt so promising at the start end like this? We felt so connected and could talk for hours at the start, but at the end, we were struggling to be interested in each others' conversations. I remember being so dizzy around him at the start, like he was the perfect person for me. But then it seemed like we were just arguing about so many things and couldn't resolve any of them ...
2. Is it normal/reasonable to want to breakup because I wanted more attention from him? (our first "breakup")
3. How did he know suddenly that our relationship was over? I mean, we were texting each other everyday and chatting and then suddenly he knew with 100% certainty that we are done and we will never get back together. How does one go from being in love to ... just not wanting me anymore?
4. Is it a good thing to have someone who doesn't complain? He said that he accepts me for who I am, but in the end, he left anyway, so he clearly couldn't. When I asked him what made us so incompatible, he just said that we're too different. He also said I neglected him because I didn't touch him very much but he said that he will accept whatever amount I give him! Are people in healthy relationships like this? I sometimes felt like I wasn't getting any feedback from him ...
5. And finally, I'm starting to see our incompatibilities. How do you avoid the situation where you fall deeply in love with someone and then it has to end because you later find out that you are incompatible? I haven't felt this much emotional pain in a long time and would like to avoid this type of situation again ...
So it's been over a month since he left, but I'm still struggling to understand how all this happened.
I only have had two relationships in my life. The first one, although much longer at 8.5 years, was in a way easier to accept when it ended because that ex emotionally cheated on me. This second one though, I'm having a very hard time processing it. It all started 3.5 years ago when I started to like one of my friend's roommates. We both flirted and got closer over four months, and then finally I had the nerve to ask him to walk me home. He told me he liked me, and I told him I liked too .. and the chemistry and connection that we both had was extremely strong. We would talk hours into the night for the first several months ... I never felt such a strong connection to someone - I felt like I found someone who truly understood me and we were even talking about the future (e.g., marriage eventually).
However, at the six month point, he started texting me less, and I started texting him less. He also stopped bringing little gifts, so I told him that I was feeling less attention from him. He said that it's natural, that he will be less attentive over time as the relationship progresses. I said that couples should continue being attentive with the little things .. and then he said that he can't make me happy and we should break up. I said no, and so he stayed, the texting and gifts returned to normal (although I don't know if he was happy about it?). But I felt something had changed because he was ready to break up so easily ...
I moved to another city about 9 months into the relationship, and over the next 2.5 years, we had many fights over some big issues (he really wants children, even if it means that me and him will have no retirement savings as he expected the children to take care of us) and some little ones (like we had a spat over me not understanding a word he was saying). These fights usually ended with him concluding that we are fundamentally incompatible and me saying no, relationships take work. I started feeling insecure about whether he was committed, so I started refusing to compromise, telling him that he can leave if doesn't want to do it my way. I was complaining about him over time too - for example, he often interrupted me when I was talking and he was a vaper, so sometimes we would cuddle or talk and he'd suddenly go and vape. A lot of it was hygiene related, like he would only brush his teeth once a day and he used to wear underwear for 2-3 days straight. Some other stuff was just me being nitpicky (e.g., for him to eat less salt, for him to exercise a bit, to dress better). . The strange thing is, he rarely complained about me. In fact, we were both showing less and less physical affection (his love language is physical touch) over the years, and when I asked him doesn't it bother him, he said that he will accept whatever I am ready to give him. Finally, one month ago, I was trying to change him to eat less meat and he just lost it. He said that he is 100% sure that he wants to leave. And he has kept his word since. He said that I just make him stressed out (he is naturally a very calm and peaceful person) and he is done.
So I have a few questions regarding this relationship, since I'm just so confused right now about what went on for the last 3.5 years:
1. How can a relationship that felt so promising at the start end like this? We felt so connected and could talk for hours at the start, but at the end, we were struggling to be interested in each others' conversations. I remember being so dizzy around him at the start, like he was the perfect person for me. But then it seemed like we were just arguing about so many things and couldn't resolve any of them ...
2. Is it normal/reasonable to want to breakup because I wanted more attention from him? (our first "breakup")
3. How did he know suddenly that our relationship was over? I mean, we were texting each other everyday and chatting and then suddenly he knew with 100% certainty that we are done and we will never get back together. How does one go from being in love to ... just not wanting me anymore?
4. Is it a good thing to have someone who doesn't complain? He said that he accepts me for who I am, but in the end, he left anyway, so he clearly couldn't. When I asked him what made us so incompatible, he just said that we're too different. He also said I neglected him because I didn't touch him very much but he said that he will accept whatever amount I give him! Are people in healthy relationships like this? I sometimes felt like I wasn't getting any feedback from him ...
5. And finally, I'm starting to see our incompatibilities. How do you avoid the situation where you fall deeply in love with someone and then it has to end because you later find out that you are incompatible? I haven't felt this much emotional pain in a long time and would like to avoid this type of situation again ...
and then he said that he can't make me happy and we should break up
Well he was right and you should have listened to him.
I said that couples should continue being attentive with the little things
And you were right too, except you were missing the fact that sometimes people just lose interest in each other. It sucks but it happens.
posted by bleep at 9:35 PM on July 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well he was right and you should have listened to him.
I said that couples should continue being attentive with the little things
And you were right too, except you were missing the fact that sometimes people just lose interest in each other. It sucks but it happens.
posted by bleep at 9:35 PM on July 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nothing grates on a man's nerves like a complaining SO.
This isn't a male thing, this is an everyone thing. I don't think anyone likes this, though people will (obviously) tolerate to varying degrees for varying lengths of time under certain circumstances.
He may well have accepted you, but you weren't accepting him and he grew tired of it. I'd also hazard a guess that he'd never really or had given up advocating for his own needs (which is A Problem). The fighting is also an indicator that things weren't meshing well.
posted by jrobin276 at 9:39 PM on July 17, 2017 [34 favorites]
This isn't a male thing, this is an everyone thing. I don't think anyone likes this, though people will (obviously) tolerate to varying degrees for varying lengths of time under certain circumstances.
He may well have accepted you, but you weren't accepting him and he grew tired of it. I'd also hazard a guess that he'd never really or had given up advocating for his own needs (which is A Problem). The fighting is also an indicator that things weren't meshing well.
posted by jrobin276 at 9:39 PM on July 17, 2017 [34 favorites]
One theme that was common across what you wrote was that when he voices a desire that you're not willing to adhere to, you "say no." He wanted to break up, you said no. He says you two are incompatible, you say no. He wants xyz - to eat the food he wants, go vape, wear underwear 2-3 days in a row - though some of that stuff may not be good for him or may be offputting, I'm not sure how sustainable a relationship is going to be when there's constantly an element of one person trying to control the other person.
I think if you're looking for advice, one logical thing would be to
1) Learn to respect the other person's wishes when they tell you something. I'm not saying it was all you - this guy seems like he needs to learn to assert himself a little bit when he's decided something, and communicate better. But if you want to avoid situations where you find out years down the road that it's not going to work, I'd start by recognizing a bit sooner when things are not working. If someone wants to break up with you, let them break up with you, don't try to argue against it. Obviously they gave it some thought and made a decision. Look for someone who wholeheartedly wants to commit and has no qualms.
2) Either work on resigning yourself to that fact that people aren't going to act or be the way you want them to be 100% of the time and find a way to deal with what you view as imperfections, or find someone who meets your standards. Would you want to be with someone who was constantly telling you how they thought you could be better? Maybe that's not what it was like in this relationship, but that's the way your post makes it sound. He accepted you, but you didn't accept him. Eventually, he decided to look for someone who would accept him. Could your frustration at all these different little things be a sign that you weren't compatible? But you were in denial that you weren't so instead tried to change him?
I'd say try spending some time by yourself for a while, and think about what you really want in a partner. It sounds like you've been in relationships for a long time and had very little time as a single person. Or, maybe date around for a while, and see what people have characteristics that you like and what those are and what characteristics you don't think you can live with. Stop trying to force things, let it develop naturally, and work on being okay with letting go.
posted by knownfossils at 10:00 PM on July 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think if you're looking for advice, one logical thing would be to
1) Learn to respect the other person's wishes when they tell you something. I'm not saying it was all you - this guy seems like he needs to learn to assert himself a little bit when he's decided something, and communicate better. But if you want to avoid situations where you find out years down the road that it's not going to work, I'd start by recognizing a bit sooner when things are not working. If someone wants to break up with you, let them break up with you, don't try to argue against it. Obviously they gave it some thought and made a decision. Look for someone who wholeheartedly wants to commit and has no qualms.
2) Either work on resigning yourself to that fact that people aren't going to act or be the way you want them to be 100% of the time and find a way to deal with what you view as imperfections, or find someone who meets your standards. Would you want to be with someone who was constantly telling you how they thought you could be better? Maybe that's not what it was like in this relationship, but that's the way your post makes it sound. He accepted you, but you didn't accept him. Eventually, he decided to look for someone who would accept him. Could your frustration at all these different little things be a sign that you weren't compatible? But you were in denial that you weren't so instead tried to change him?
I'd say try spending some time by yourself for a while, and think about what you really want in a partner. It sounds like you've been in relationships for a long time and had very little time as a single person. Or, maybe date around for a while, and see what people have characteristics that you like and what those are and what characteristics you don't think you can live with. Stop trying to force things, let it develop naturally, and work on being okay with letting go.
posted by knownfossils at 10:00 PM on July 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
You can never change anyone. The best you can be is a good example or a horrible warning.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:46 PM on July 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:46 PM on July 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
To answer your last question about how to avoid this again - Step # 1 is to go to therapy and make A Plan for Dealbreakers or as we call them here: Red Flags.
You did a great job narrating your relationship for us, use this statement in therapy. After many many failed romances, me as an old person, can see SO many red flags! You could've dumped this relationship years ago. Really.
Step #2 in therapy is making a list of all the features you DO want in a relationship and making A Plan to cut bait if an important feature is missing. Your therapist can help you with this. You could be done in 5 to 10 sessions.
Step #3 is implementing what your learn from Steps 1 & 2.
You're welcome! It really is this easy! Be attracted to what's attractive, not the shiny coating on a relationship. Focus on the substance. This is the Big Relationship Secret no one ever tells you.
Be well.
posted by jbenben at 11:56 PM on July 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
You did a great job narrating your relationship for us, use this statement in therapy. After many many failed romances, me as an old person, can see SO many red flags! You could've dumped this relationship years ago. Really.
Step #2 in therapy is making a list of all the features you DO want in a relationship and making A Plan to cut bait if an important feature is missing. Your therapist can help you with this. You could be done in 5 to 10 sessions.
Step #3 is implementing what your learn from Steps 1 & 2.
You're welcome! It really is this easy! Be attracted to what's attractive, not the shiny coating on a relationship. Focus on the substance. This is the Big Relationship Secret no one ever tells you.
Be well.
posted by jbenben at 11:56 PM on July 17, 2017 [10 favorites]
Best answer: 1. That's the honeymoon period. There are a ton of hormones from your own brain causing that dizzy feeling and it has a lot to do with attraction and not that much to do with rational long term compatibility. Every relationship I've had had an element of this at the start, including when there was a deep incompatibility up to and including him being an abusive jerk.
2. It is normal to want to break up when you realise that you are incompatible and it is normal for different people to have different ideas of how much attention is enough. It's also normal for that attention to diminish as the relationship deepens. Those little gifts helped me know he cared at the start have been replaced by a shared mortgage and 3 kids and the entire life we have built together. A little gift might still be nice but I'm not waiting on them to confirm his feelings. Little gifts aren't really a part of my love language.
Likewise some couples are still giving little gifts 50 years in because it is part of their love language. Neither of you are wrong either to want that attention or to feel it is forced after a few months together.
3. Every time you asked him to make a small change it grated on him. Over time he was behaving in a totally different way to who he felt himself to be. Eventually a straw broke the camel's back.
4. Complain is a pretty loaded word. It's good to be able to communicate openly and honestly. He should have been more honest when you asked him for those small changes but in his defence he tried to be the first time and you dismissed him. He was right way back then. You were incompatible. In big and small ways. You saying relationships take work and effort is correct on one level but no amount of work will help with fundamental differences. There is no work to be done that will make the stress of having no pension or the sadness of having no children go away. When you are hearing serious concerns from a partner it's good to listen to them and take them seriously. It sounds like he had quite a passive approach and having spoken up once he decided not to again. That is hard on you. You're not psychic! My husband tends not to say until things have become intolerable and I say when I'm only slightly irritated. It has taken practice but we can communicate fine now (11 years in) because he knows to disregard 90% of my moans and I actively double check things with him even if he seems okay. That took work. But we are fundamentally aligned with different communication styles.
5. That is hard. But the most important things are to know a fundamental incompatibility when you see one (e.g. he wants kids, you don't) and to know how to act on them. And part of that is believing people when they tell you stuff. When he told you he wanted kids and you knew you didn't what went through your mind? That he would change your mind? That you would change his? That your rational financial reasoning trumped his strong desire?
I think this man did sometimes tell you what he needed throughout the relationship BUT he told you pretty quietly and sometimes almost imperceptibly. I think you will have learned a ton from this experience and from unpacking it now. Take heart, you were indeed incompatible.
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 1:17 AM on July 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
2. It is normal to want to break up when you realise that you are incompatible and it is normal for different people to have different ideas of how much attention is enough. It's also normal for that attention to diminish as the relationship deepens. Those little gifts helped me know he cared at the start have been replaced by a shared mortgage and 3 kids and the entire life we have built together. A little gift might still be nice but I'm not waiting on them to confirm his feelings. Little gifts aren't really a part of my love language.
Likewise some couples are still giving little gifts 50 years in because it is part of their love language. Neither of you are wrong either to want that attention or to feel it is forced after a few months together.
3. Every time you asked him to make a small change it grated on him. Over time he was behaving in a totally different way to who he felt himself to be. Eventually a straw broke the camel's back.
4. Complain is a pretty loaded word. It's good to be able to communicate openly and honestly. He should have been more honest when you asked him for those small changes but in his defence he tried to be the first time and you dismissed him. He was right way back then. You were incompatible. In big and small ways. You saying relationships take work and effort is correct on one level but no amount of work will help with fundamental differences. There is no work to be done that will make the stress of having no pension or the sadness of having no children go away. When you are hearing serious concerns from a partner it's good to listen to them and take them seriously. It sounds like he had quite a passive approach and having spoken up once he decided not to again. That is hard on you. You're not psychic! My husband tends not to say until things have become intolerable and I say when I'm only slightly irritated. It has taken practice but we can communicate fine now (11 years in) because he knows to disregard 90% of my moans and I actively double check things with him even if he seems okay. That took work. But we are fundamentally aligned with different communication styles.
5. That is hard. But the most important things are to know a fundamental incompatibility when you see one (e.g. he wants kids, you don't) and to know how to act on them. And part of that is believing people when they tell you stuff. When he told you he wanted kids and you knew you didn't what went through your mind? That he would change your mind? That you would change his? That your rational financial reasoning trumped his strong desire?
I think this man did sometimes tell you what he needed throughout the relationship BUT he told you pretty quietly and sometimes almost imperceptibly. I think you will have learned a ton from this experience and from unpacking it now. Take heart, you were indeed incompatible.
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 1:17 AM on July 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yall were fundamentally incompatible for a long term relationship. And, honestly, you tried to force a square peg into a circle shaped hole.
If your partner has differing wants or needs about major life decisions on things like children, money, and retirement planning, it's ok to break up and find a partner that shares your goals and values. But you also have to know your wants and needs and be willing to stick to them.
If a relatively short term partner tells you that yall are incompatible, listen very hard and examine why they are saying that!
1) infatuation. Limeremce. A massive swamp of chemicals. New relationships are basically euphoric insanity, and the first six months to a year or so may have no bearing on the rest of your relationship.
2) yep. It might be a deal breaker or it might be a communication or relationship style issue. Check to see if adjustments can or should be made
3) negative emotions can push out love. Extinguish it, like water on a fire. In one way, your relationship sounds like a string of major fights and continual attempts to change him. It does, however, sound like you both loved each other, but that alone does not make a LTR work. He saw the writing on the wall and hit his limit. He did what he felt he needed to make his life better.
4) yes and no. If they wont stand up for themselves or won't communicate, thats frustrating. You probably don't want someone who gripes over everything either. Balance. Some people communicate poorly or differently, and might be too subtle about things. Think about why people say things and what their motivation might be.
5) have your list of wants, needs, goals, and dealbreakers. Compare it to reality as best you can during the early stages. Big things like religion, children, views on money, etc are ok to make a stand on. Understand that honeymoon period and learn how to handle a more longerm, lasting emotional burn. Listen to yourself, listen to him. Compromise endlessly on small stuff, don't settle for people incompatible on the big stuff.
Love and being so vulnerable is a big risk. It can blow up pretty easily. But you live, you learn, you adapt.
posted by Jacen at 4:06 AM on July 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
If your partner has differing wants or needs about major life decisions on things like children, money, and retirement planning, it's ok to break up and find a partner that shares your goals and values. But you also have to know your wants and needs and be willing to stick to them.
If a relatively short term partner tells you that yall are incompatible, listen very hard and examine why they are saying that!
1) infatuation. Limeremce. A massive swamp of chemicals. New relationships are basically euphoric insanity, and the first six months to a year or so may have no bearing on the rest of your relationship.
2) yep. It might be a deal breaker or it might be a communication or relationship style issue. Check to see if adjustments can or should be made
3) negative emotions can push out love. Extinguish it, like water on a fire. In one way, your relationship sounds like a string of major fights and continual attempts to change him. It does, however, sound like you both loved each other, but that alone does not make a LTR work. He saw the writing on the wall and hit his limit. He did what he felt he needed to make his life better.
4) yes and no. If they wont stand up for themselves or won't communicate, thats frustrating. You probably don't want someone who gripes over everything either. Balance. Some people communicate poorly or differently, and might be too subtle about things. Think about why people say things and what their motivation might be.
5) have your list of wants, needs, goals, and dealbreakers. Compare it to reality as best you can during the early stages. Big things like religion, children, views on money, etc are ok to make a stand on. Understand that honeymoon period and learn how to handle a more longerm, lasting emotional burn. Listen to yourself, listen to him. Compromise endlessly on small stuff, don't settle for people incompatible on the big stuff.
Love and being so vulnerable is a big risk. It can blow up pretty easily. But you live, you learn, you adapt.
posted by Jacen at 4:06 AM on July 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
...he said that he can't make me happy and we should break up. I said no, and so he stayed
This bit stood out to me. He made a statement and you took it as a question. I think you should have cut it dead here. He definitely shouldn't have stayed but if someone told me that we should break up, I wouldn't really try to push it any further. You need different things. He thinks he doesn't need to be as attentive as a relationship progresses. You disagree (as would I). He's right. He can't make you happy.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 4:28 AM on July 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
This bit stood out to me. He made a statement and you took it as a question. I think you should have cut it dead here. He definitely shouldn't have stayed but if someone told me that we should break up, I wouldn't really try to push it any further. You need different things. He thinks he doesn't need to be as attentive as a relationship progresses. You disagree (as would I). He's right. He can't make you happy.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 4:28 AM on July 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
"I'm still struggling to understand how all this happened"
but
"I started refusing to compromise"
"I was trying to change him"
"me being nitpicky"
"he was ready to break up so easily"
It sounds like this guy wasn't as into the relationship as you were, and your response was to do everything you could to push him further away.
posted by kevinbelt at 4:56 AM on July 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
but
"I started refusing to compromise"
"I was trying to change him"
"me being nitpicky"
"he was ready to break up so easily"
It sounds like this guy wasn't as into the relationship as you were, and your response was to do everything you could to push him further away.
posted by kevinbelt at 4:56 AM on July 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
At the start of a relationship, you simply do not know the other person. It's easy to fill in the blanks with your own wishful thinking.
In time, you learn more. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
posted by Sublimity at 5:37 AM on July 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
In time, you learn more. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
posted by Sublimity at 5:37 AM on July 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you everyone for the answers, it's been helping me to process things. I've just been feeling so down about the breakup, like a huge part of me has been ripped out.
I think yes, he had a very passive approach. He's a very calm and peaceful person by nature, so he told me that he would just accept everything about me. Is that normal? Can people really just accept 100% of a person? I thought everyone in a relationship has some gripes and some (small) things that they would like to change (e.g., changing underwear daily, brushing teeth twice a day - he had really bad breath sometimes).
I think he did care a lot, because he gave up many things to be together. He put his career on hold so he could live closer to me, and with the children, it's not that I didn't want them. It's more that I wanted to be financially ok on our own before adding them to our lives. I just didn't want to have to go into debt or have to rely on the children to take care of us when we're old. I think it's something that confuses me too, he did try to compromise a lot (but I think we just had too many things that required compromise) but when we had our fights, he often suggested that we break up (although yes, I did suggest/consider it myself a few times too, just not as much as he did). So the two seem contradictory to me - if he wasn't into the relationship, then why did he try so hard?
I guess now I realize that even though we both love each other, we just don't work as life partners. How do I deal with the pain? I have another big question: what are the big things that make people incompatible and you cannot compromise on, and what are the small things that you can compromise on?
posted by eternallyinfinite at 6:25 AM on July 18, 2017
I think yes, he had a very passive approach. He's a very calm and peaceful person by nature, so he told me that he would just accept everything about me. Is that normal? Can people really just accept 100% of a person? I thought everyone in a relationship has some gripes and some (small) things that they would like to change (e.g., changing underwear daily, brushing teeth twice a day - he had really bad breath sometimes).
I think he did care a lot, because he gave up many things to be together. He put his career on hold so he could live closer to me, and with the children, it's not that I didn't want them. It's more that I wanted to be financially ok on our own before adding them to our lives. I just didn't want to have to go into debt or have to rely on the children to take care of us when we're old. I think it's something that confuses me too, he did try to compromise a lot (but I think we just had too many things that required compromise) but when we had our fights, he often suggested that we break up (although yes, I did suggest/consider it myself a few times too, just not as much as he did). So the two seem contradictory to me - if he wasn't into the relationship, then why did he try so hard?
I guess now I realize that even though we both love each other, we just don't work as life partners. How do I deal with the pain? I have another big question: what are the big things that make people incompatible and you cannot compromise on, and what are the small things that you can compromise on?
posted by eternallyinfinite at 6:25 AM on July 18, 2017
Jenben's answers above says it all. Work it out in therapy. You need to identify your own dealbreakers from within not from internet strangers. This effort will help you deal with the pain.
posted by Elsie at 6:59 AM on July 18, 2017
posted by Elsie at 6:59 AM on July 18, 2017
What's important is to realise your own deal-breakers, not anticipate everyone else's. Yes, for a lot of people, kids or not are going to be one of them. It seems like being financially secure is a big one for you. Both positions are fine, but not necessarily compatible, and to some ears "waiting until we have enough money" can sound an awful lot like stalling the question to someone who really wants children.
You've acknowledged yourself that you invest a lot of trust in people changing to suit you, and this clearly caused your ex a deal of unhappiness. This is definitely something to be talking about in therapy.
posted by threetwentytwo at 7:14 AM on July 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
You've acknowledged yourself that you invest a lot of trust in people changing to suit you, and this clearly caused your ex a deal of unhappiness. This is definitely something to be talking about in therapy.
posted by threetwentytwo at 7:14 AM on July 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Consider what he meant by "accept everything about you". I am very accepting of my friends, in that I will pay attention to who they're telling/showing me that they are, and I will respect that they are going to make their choices based on what will suit them the best. My friend A is vegetarian and radically pro-planet, and she carries a cup with her so that she will never use a disposable cup; I accept that about her and have learned not to feel awkward - either embarrassed on her behalf or guilty for my own landfill-filling ways - while she is negotiating with counter staff to make that happen. I do not ask her to conform to my expectations, I am accepting her values and behaviors. However, if she were to start judging me for my choices, making me carry my own cup around if I want to go out with her, we'd be done. Accepting her for the person she is does not include agreeing with all her decisions.
So when he says he accepts you, that means he's not going to ask you to stop being you, or change for him; that doesn't mean he will mold himself until he fits perfectly with that unchanged uncompromised version of you. Maybe when he said he accepted you, what he wanted was for you to reciprocate and accept everything about him.
posted by aimedwander at 7:25 AM on July 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
So when he says he accepts you, that means he's not going to ask you to stop being you, or change for him; that doesn't mean he will mold himself until he fits perfectly with that unchanged uncompromised version of you. Maybe when he said he accepted you, what he wanted was for you to reciprocate and accept everything about him.
posted by aimedwander at 7:25 AM on July 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
You should have broken up the first time he wanted to break up with you. Relationships don't often recover from something like that, unless it was over a big misunderstanding.
posted by empath at 8:11 AM on July 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by empath at 8:11 AM on July 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Best answer: He's a very calm and peaceful person by nature, so he told me that he would just accept everything about me. Is that normal? Can people really just accept 100% of a person? I thought everyone in a relationship has some gripes and some (small) things that they would like to change (e.g., changing underwear daily, brushing teeth twice a day - he had really bad breath sometimes).
I think people often confuse "Acceptance" with "Approval." They are not the same. Acceptance merely means that you recognize a reality for what it is, and understand the limits of your impact on it. You can have a gripe and still accept a situation. You probably do it all the time! For example, I bet you've been in a situation where something about your boss bugged the hell out of you. But when's the last time you expected your boss to change something about themselves? Probably the fifth of NEVER, right? Because you accept that they are the way they are, and that it's on you to deal with it, or to find a new job.
Same deal with relationships. You can accept 100% of a person while still acknowledging that there are things you wish were different.
So, to stick with the job analogy: suppose you have a fantastic job, but your boss has an annoying habit of talking on speakerphone during meetings. This is super annoying, but are you seriously going to quit your fantastic job over it? Nah. You're going to find a way to live with it - maybe scheduling your lunch to coincide with those annoying meetings. Maybe you ask her if she can close the office door during calls, and hopefully she'll try to remember. This is what you do in a relationship when a wonderful partner has a small incompatibility, but you both love each other.
But suppose instead, your job is very difficult, with many conflicts. Your boss fundamentally disagrees with you about what your job is, and what her job is. You don't even agree with the company's mission. If you could, you'd change almost everything about your job and your boss. That is when you quit, and find a better fit. This is what it's like in a shitty, incompatible relationship, when your partner has completely different habits, goals, and needs. Like, for example, wanting kids when you don't, or not believing in basic hygiene. Things that a person would find hard, impossible, or terribly sad to change no matter how much they loved their partner.
In both of these examples, though, you are 100% accepting that the person is the way she is. You are recognizing the limits of your control, which are basically "I can control what I do, and nothing else at all ever. Just what i do."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:22 AM on July 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think people often confuse "Acceptance" with "Approval." They are not the same. Acceptance merely means that you recognize a reality for what it is, and understand the limits of your impact on it. You can have a gripe and still accept a situation. You probably do it all the time! For example, I bet you've been in a situation where something about your boss bugged the hell out of you. But when's the last time you expected your boss to change something about themselves? Probably the fifth of NEVER, right? Because you accept that they are the way they are, and that it's on you to deal with it, or to find a new job.
Same deal with relationships. You can accept 100% of a person while still acknowledging that there are things you wish were different.
So, to stick with the job analogy: suppose you have a fantastic job, but your boss has an annoying habit of talking on speakerphone during meetings. This is super annoying, but are you seriously going to quit your fantastic job over it? Nah. You're going to find a way to live with it - maybe scheduling your lunch to coincide with those annoying meetings. Maybe you ask her if she can close the office door during calls, and hopefully she'll try to remember. This is what you do in a relationship when a wonderful partner has a small incompatibility, but you both love each other.
But suppose instead, your job is very difficult, with many conflicts. Your boss fundamentally disagrees with you about what your job is, and what her job is. You don't even agree with the company's mission. If you could, you'd change almost everything about your job and your boss. That is when you quit, and find a better fit. This is what it's like in a shitty, incompatible relationship, when your partner has completely different habits, goals, and needs. Like, for example, wanting kids when you don't, or not believing in basic hygiene. Things that a person would find hard, impossible, or terribly sad to change no matter how much they loved their partner.
In both of these examples, though, you are 100% accepting that the person is the way she is. You are recognizing the limits of your control, which are basically "I can control what I do, and nothing else at all ever. Just what i do."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:22 AM on July 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
I thought everyone in a relationship has some gripes and some (small) things that they would like to change (e.g., changing underwear daily, brushing teeth twice a day - he had really bad breath sometimes).
These are not things I would ever try or think about changing in a partner. these are things so basic and fundamental to adult living that I would never consider dating or touching or living with someone who didn't do them on his own long before he met me. I recommend adopting this attitude.
I can imagine becoming friends with such a person if he had reasons such as clinical depression for not being able to handle the tasks of daily living. it is easy to sympathize at a little distance. but I don't think it is normal to take for granted that any partner will have issues like these, or to expect that you can change them by repeatedly demanding. If all it took for him to clean himself was a girlfriend telling him to, he wouldn't need a girlfriend to tell him to.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:14 AM on July 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
These are not things I would ever try or think about changing in a partner. these are things so basic and fundamental to adult living that I would never consider dating or touching or living with someone who didn't do them on his own long before he met me. I recommend adopting this attitude.
I can imagine becoming friends with such a person if he had reasons such as clinical depression for not being able to handle the tasks of daily living. it is easy to sympathize at a little distance. but I don't think it is normal to take for granted that any partner will have issues like these, or to expect that you can change them by repeatedly demanding. If all it took for him to clean himself was a girlfriend telling him to, he wouldn't need a girlfriend to tell him to.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:14 AM on July 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: "we put our faith in blast hardcheese" - thanks, that analogy really helps. I think I understand him a lot better now, you're right, he didn't like/approve of a lot of things about me but he just accepted it (plus, he was also very bad at communicating those things). I'm a very much "here is a problem, let's fix it" and he's a "I just accept life as it comes/what it gives me" person, so our communication/personalities don't match.
I am starting to see our relationship as two people who fell in love and tried hard to get it to work. We are just so different in life goals, habits, communication and even our ways of thinking that we would have to sacrifice too many things to get it to work. I think the hormones and dizziness at the start really got both of us to deny our differences - we just both buried and denied them, and I guess with that first break up, he knew best thing to do to leave, but he was too emotionally involved to do it. I just see it as very sad, that love couldn't be enough.
Regarding his hygiene .. I didn't know until he stayed with me for a week 9 months in. I was wondering why he bought so few boxers and he said that he just wore them 2-3 days straight. After that, he did start improving his hygiene - he comes from a post-soviet country and he told me that hygiene wasn't emphasized much. He actually is quite a clean person overall.
posted by eternallyinfinite at 12:48 PM on July 18, 2017
I am starting to see our relationship as two people who fell in love and tried hard to get it to work. We are just so different in life goals, habits, communication and even our ways of thinking that we would have to sacrifice too many things to get it to work. I think the hormones and dizziness at the start really got both of us to deny our differences - we just both buried and denied them, and I guess with that first break up, he knew best thing to do to leave, but he was too emotionally involved to do it. I just see it as very sad, that love couldn't be enough.
Regarding his hygiene .. I didn't know until he stayed with me for a week 9 months in. I was wondering why he bought so few boxers and he said that he just wore them 2-3 days straight. After that, he did start improving his hygiene - he comes from a post-soviet country and he told me that hygiene wasn't emphasized much. He actually is quite a clean person overall.
posted by eternallyinfinite at 12:48 PM on July 18, 2017
It is normal and a peaceful way of being to accept people as they are. But as said above that doesn't mean approving of their ways.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a person choosing not to brush their teeth or change their underwear. Nothing. It hurts nobody but possibly themself depending on the timing of their one brushing. BUT that absolutely doesn't mean you personally have to be intimate with them or kiss them or date them. It is okay for you to accept Ringo never changes his jocks and ALSO for you to not date people who don't change their jocks, including Ringo. Basic daily hygiene can be a deal breaker without it making you a bad person. It can be neglected without it making him a bad person. But it does make you incompatible.
There is no concrete list of big and small things that make or break relationships. Most people know their own big things (like you already know long term financial security matters to you more than having children) and discover or negotiate as they go. Small things you often hit on during the relationship and feel as you go whether or not you can cope with them. I personally tend to find the smaller things irritate me more when they are in addition to bigger things. One ex smoked and it drove me mad. From the distance of well over a decade since we split I can see that if he had behaved like he was remotely interested in me, wasn't using drugs, wanted children and had some sense that a person should work and pay their own way through life the smoking wouldn't have bothered me! It's not universally true but it's often true that the small things grate more when there are big things to carry too.
Maybe all those things you wanted to change about him were just your own internal voice saying "not this guy".
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 12:49 PM on July 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a person choosing not to brush their teeth or change their underwear. Nothing. It hurts nobody but possibly themself depending on the timing of their one brushing. BUT that absolutely doesn't mean you personally have to be intimate with them or kiss them or date them. It is okay for you to accept Ringo never changes his jocks and ALSO for you to not date people who don't change their jocks, including Ringo. Basic daily hygiene can be a deal breaker without it making you a bad person. It can be neglected without it making him a bad person. But it does make you incompatible.
There is no concrete list of big and small things that make or break relationships. Most people know their own big things (like you already know long term financial security matters to you more than having children) and discover or negotiate as they go. Small things you often hit on during the relationship and feel as you go whether or not you can cope with them. I personally tend to find the smaller things irritate me more when they are in addition to bigger things. One ex smoked and it drove me mad. From the distance of well over a decade since we split I can see that if he had behaved like he was remotely interested in me, wasn't using drugs, wanted children and had some sense that a person should work and pay their own way through life the smoking wouldn't have bothered me! It's not universally true but it's often true that the small things grate more when there are big things to carry too.
Maybe all those things you wanted to change about him were just your own internal voice saying "not this guy".
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 12:49 PM on July 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Look, I don't think you were being unreasonable to ask for increased hygeine. These things are fundementals, and as his girlfriend you were affected by them. It's not bad to ask for things if they affect you personally.
But you are glossing over the other stuff in your follow up-- maybe intentionally? You also tried to change his stance on when to have kids, the way he dressed, what he ate, (less salt, less meat), vaping-- even his stance on how much attention and gifts is normal. These are not ok. You can act like its for 'concern' for his well being, but the truth is, salt isn't as bad as once thought-- so unless you know he has high blood pressure, then why are you policing his salt use? You are not his doctor or his nutritionist, and you don't have all the info on all the foods ever-- in fact, not even scientists know everything, because measuring the long term effect of various food on people is a really really difficult thing to do, (because of demographics, length of study, sample sizes, and that foods themselves are complex.) Case in point, eggs and cholesterol. It's very easy, in this day and age and with this emphasis on 'health' foods, to be an armchair nutritionist, but believe me, as someone who has been judged/scrutinized in this way my entire life with food, don't do it. This isn't a fundamental, like hygiene. This is you being controlling. I don't like people commenting on me drinking drinks with aspartame; I know the research, I have read up on it and it's a choice I make for myself. And in my experience, people that comment on it, know less about it than I do myself. And I'm sure there is plenty of lifestyle choices you make that can also be judged by someone else. Being judged is awful. If your ex told you to wear more makeup, or less makeup would that be ok? So the easy thing is to date people who are on this wavelength, who like to eat the things you do, and dress in a way you approve of. He may have pretended to be okay with it, but remember, he loved you and wanted to be with you. But being judged, needing to be different to be loved, even if at first is tolerable, it absolutely can grate on someone after a while. And if you became more controlling as time went on, then perhaps you were unhappy, too. Unhappiness begets unhappiness, and its tough to endure in that situation. Maybe he did love you yesterday. Maybe he did still want to be with you. You can still love someone, and want to be with someone, and still be unhappy and know it's not right for you.
As for your question, do people just love someone unconditionally? There's a big difference between noticing flaws, and wanting to change flaws. My fiance has flaws, and some of them I don't like and we discuss them. Especially when they affect me, personally. But I don't want to change him. It doesn't mean I don't notice his flaws, it just means that they don't affect me to the point where I want to change them. For example, he used to smoke pot, because he gets chronic pain. I am not into pot, despite having tried it recreationally for a while. After a bad experience, it kinda ruined the taste/smell for me. But I knew he smoked when we met, he never hid it from me. At first, I wasn't that okay with it, because there's a 'stigma' about pot, and all this misinformation about it. But I researched it, and came to terms with dating a smoker. He stopped, not because I asked but because he said he didn't like having this 'haze' when we spent time together, that made him feel all cloudy. I didn't notice him being different when smoking, honestly. I can't say I'm unhappy he stopped (as I said, I dislike the smell/taste) but If he started again tomorrow, I'd be ok with it, really.
Everyone has dealbreakers, everyone's are different. People change, but expecting people to change, means you're actually unhappy in who they fundamentally are. In future, when you don't align with someone, the way they handle themselves, what they look or eat or dress, and you find yourself wishing they were different, then you're really wanting someone who is different. You are better of finding someone more on your wavelength. This doesn't mean someone flawless, it just means finding someone who's flaws you can accept and live with and you don't have a knee-jerk reaction to nag or change.
But as a small aside, sometimes people just have bad breath, or get bad BO. It's part of being human. My brother flosses and brushes after every meal, including with an electronic toothbrush, too, uses mouthwash and gum with dental properties, and he uses a calcium rich tooth mousse at night-- so he really really cares about oral hygiene. And he has had bad breath, his whole entire life, enough that I've personally noticed it SO many times even when I'm not standing that close to him. In fact, I think part of the reason he brushes so much is because his 'clean' breath smell doesn't last long. Some people just have really bad breath.
On the other hand, my SO was really neglected as a child, and because of this, was never taught good oral hygiene. It's improved a lot now since meeting me, after he got older. But even when we first started dating, I had no idea, because he pretty much never has bad breath or a bad taste. So I mean, not everyone was lucky enough to be born in a situation we were taught the basic fundamental tools of adult self care at a young age. Still glad I did consider dating and touching him, because he is awesome.
As for dealing with the breakup, just learn from it. It sounds sad but amicable, and I think it ran its course. Just take it one day at a time, practice self care, then get out there and meet someone you click with. Best of luck.
posted by Dimes at 12:54 PM on July 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
But you are glossing over the other stuff in your follow up-- maybe intentionally? You also tried to change his stance on when to have kids, the way he dressed, what he ate, (less salt, less meat), vaping-- even his stance on how much attention and gifts is normal. These are not ok. You can act like its for 'concern' for his well being, but the truth is, salt isn't as bad as once thought-- so unless you know he has high blood pressure, then why are you policing his salt use? You are not his doctor or his nutritionist, and you don't have all the info on all the foods ever-- in fact, not even scientists know everything, because measuring the long term effect of various food on people is a really really difficult thing to do, (because of demographics, length of study, sample sizes, and that foods themselves are complex.) Case in point, eggs and cholesterol. It's very easy, in this day and age and with this emphasis on 'health' foods, to be an armchair nutritionist, but believe me, as someone who has been judged/scrutinized in this way my entire life with food, don't do it. This isn't a fundamental, like hygiene. This is you being controlling. I don't like people commenting on me drinking drinks with aspartame; I know the research, I have read up on it and it's a choice I make for myself. And in my experience, people that comment on it, know less about it than I do myself. And I'm sure there is plenty of lifestyle choices you make that can also be judged by someone else. Being judged is awful. If your ex told you to wear more makeup, or less makeup would that be ok? So the easy thing is to date people who are on this wavelength, who like to eat the things you do, and dress in a way you approve of. He may have pretended to be okay with it, but remember, he loved you and wanted to be with you. But being judged, needing to be different to be loved, even if at first is tolerable, it absolutely can grate on someone after a while. And if you became more controlling as time went on, then perhaps you were unhappy, too. Unhappiness begets unhappiness, and its tough to endure in that situation. Maybe he did love you yesterday. Maybe he did still want to be with you. You can still love someone, and want to be with someone, and still be unhappy and know it's not right for you.
As for your question, do people just love someone unconditionally? There's a big difference between noticing flaws, and wanting to change flaws. My fiance has flaws, and some of them I don't like and we discuss them. Especially when they affect me, personally. But I don't want to change him. It doesn't mean I don't notice his flaws, it just means that they don't affect me to the point where I want to change them. For example, he used to smoke pot, because he gets chronic pain. I am not into pot, despite having tried it recreationally for a while. After a bad experience, it kinda ruined the taste/smell for me. But I knew he smoked when we met, he never hid it from me. At first, I wasn't that okay with it, because there's a 'stigma' about pot, and all this misinformation about it. But I researched it, and came to terms with dating a smoker. He stopped, not because I asked but because he said he didn't like having this 'haze' when we spent time together, that made him feel all cloudy. I didn't notice him being different when smoking, honestly. I can't say I'm unhappy he stopped (as I said, I dislike the smell/taste) but If he started again tomorrow, I'd be ok with it, really.
Everyone has dealbreakers, everyone's are different. People change, but expecting people to change, means you're actually unhappy in who they fundamentally are. In future, when you don't align with someone, the way they handle themselves, what they look or eat or dress, and you find yourself wishing they were different, then you're really wanting someone who is different. You are better of finding someone more on your wavelength. This doesn't mean someone flawless, it just means finding someone who's flaws you can accept and live with and you don't have a knee-jerk reaction to nag or change.
But as a small aside, sometimes people just have bad breath, or get bad BO. It's part of being human. My brother flosses and brushes after every meal, including with an electronic toothbrush, too, uses mouthwash and gum with dental properties, and he uses a calcium rich tooth mousse at night-- so he really really cares about oral hygiene. And he has had bad breath, his whole entire life, enough that I've personally noticed it SO many times even when I'm not standing that close to him. In fact, I think part of the reason he brushes so much is because his 'clean' breath smell doesn't last long. Some people just have really bad breath.
On the other hand, my SO was really neglected as a child, and because of this, was never taught good oral hygiene. It's improved a lot now since meeting me, after he got older. But even when we first started dating, I had no idea, because he pretty much never has bad breath or a bad taste. So I mean, not everyone was lucky enough to be born in a situation we were taught the basic fundamental tools of adult self care at a young age. Still glad I did consider dating and touching him, because he is awesome.
As for dealing with the breakup, just learn from it. It sounds sad but amicable, and I think it ran its course. Just take it one day at a time, practice self care, then get out there and meet someone you click with. Best of luck.
posted by Dimes at 12:54 PM on July 18, 2017 [12 favorites]
Mod note: A couple deleted. eternallyinfinite, Ask Me isn't for back and forth discussion or debate with people answering. Some advice will be helpful, some not so much; just focus on whatever seems useful to you, and keep responses to a minimum. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:57 AM on July 19, 2017
posted by taz (staff) at 12:57 AM on July 19, 2017
1. Easily. Happens all the time.
2. Yup. Happens all the time.
3. Easily. Because you can't 1/2 break up. So while it almost always seems sudden, no one ever says "i'm going to break up with you by September most likely"
4. It isn't good or bad. you two, together did a shitty job communicating "kiss me" "brush your teeth" , "lets cuddle" "change your underwear" this shouldn't be hard stuff cause and effect.
5. Ha. yeah you don't really, not 100% You can be more cautious, understand that the hormones and limerence period of new people is what it is and enjoy it, but maybe not giving it so much meaning.
one thing tho:
I told him that I was feeling less attention from him. He said that it's natural, that he will be less attentive over time as the relationship progresses.
He said he would get worse. He said it. Next time someone says something like this leave.
posted by French Fry at 1:22 PM on July 19, 2017
2. Yup. Happens all the time.
3. Easily. Because you can't 1/2 break up. So while it almost always seems sudden, no one ever says "i'm going to break up with you by September most likely"
4. It isn't good or bad. you two, together did a shitty job communicating "kiss me" "brush your teeth" , "lets cuddle" "change your underwear" this shouldn't be hard stuff cause and effect.
5. Ha. yeah you don't really, not 100% You can be more cautious, understand that the hormones and limerence period of new people is what it is and enjoy it, but maybe not giving it so much meaning.
one thing tho:
I told him that I was feeling less attention from him. He said that it's natural, that he will be less attentive over time as the relationship progresses.
He said he would get worse. He said it. Next time someone says something like this leave.
posted by French Fry at 1:22 PM on July 19, 2017
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2. Simple question, complicated answer. If you want more attention and you're not getting it then yes it's reasonable. But having said that, I can tell you that being "needy" is almost universally unattractive.
3. It's been eating at him for quite some time. He finally fessed up to himself and you (see 1).
4. Like so many other people he's trying to be all things to all people. Yeah, sure, he'll accept you for who you are but that's just the cover story. It's what society has beaten into him to say. But I think it's clear he doesn't believe it. The truth is you two are incompatible.
Now, take some advice. Try not to complain so much. Nothing grates on a man's nerves like a complaining SO. That's why he's so stressed out. Having said that, the underwear and tooth brush thing is pretty gross. Please stop trying to change him or your next guy. It doesn't work. People do change but it's incredibly slow. You can be a part of that change but you have to be content with him the way he is now. . .because he just might NOT change. . .ever.
5. Date a lot more men. This is your second real relationship. Date more. Find other incompatibilities and move on.
posted by Lord Fancy Pants at 9:23 PM on July 17, 2017 [3 favorites]