Air conditioning issues in 2004 Mazda3
May 31, 2017 9:22 AM Subscribe
Are there any DIY things I can check to help diagnose intermittent A/C loss in a 2004 Mazda3? Because I'm tired of spending money on a 13 year old car but I also like having A/C.
My 2004 Mazda3 hatchback has about 50k miles on it. It's always had somewhat anemic air conditioning, which I understand is common for this model/year (the first year the Mazda3 was sold). The current problem, however, is more significant yet intermittent; and despite multiple attempts to determine any correlating circumstances, very hard to pin down.
It started about 2 summers ago (possibly coincidentally) after hitting a pothole pretty hard. The fans keep working but the actual air coming in is just outside air. Not cold, not dehumidified. Since that time, it continues to go out and come back. The cycles are seemingly random - as short as a few minutes to as long as a few hours. It seems more likely to happen when the car is under load - when it's really hot out, when there's a lot of starting and stopping, or when the sun is especially intense - but that could also just be when I'm more likely to be running the A/C.
I've taken the car to the mechanic twice for this issue. Both times the A/C was not working when I made the appointment but was back to working again at the time of the appointment, so they couldn't really troubleshoot. Last summer, they did a typical A/C service - pulling the refrigerant and seeing how much was in there, checking for ability to hold a vacuum, and adding dye to the refrigerant to check for leaks. It holds a vacuum and the dye showed no leaks. I immediately went on a long road rip after this service, driving from Chicago to the East Coast and back. The A/C worked ok until we hit Ohio and then cut out and didn't appear to be coming back, so we turned it off. The next day it was working fine again, and worked for the rest of the trip.
However, it continues to cut in and out so I took it in again before a short road trip this weekend. Once again, it happened to be working at the time of the appointment so they did the regular A/C service. They said the refrigerant was down about a pound but also that the system held the vacuum so they didn't think there was a leak. Added the dye again and when I brought it back for a brake job the following week there was no evidence of a leak (however, the weather was cool that week so the A/C was not tested much.) The A/C continues to cut out and then start working again.
This intermittent problem is a real bear to diagnose because there's no way to predict what conditions will make the A/C cut out and thus time an appointment accordingly. I can't just keep paying for $200 A/C services for a 13 year old car that aren't solving the problem.
When it stops working, I've tried turning all the fan/temp knobs back and forth and clicking the A/C button off and on and it doesn't change anything.
To me it seems not like a refrigerant issue, which would lead to anemic but still working cooling unless I was down a lot. The mechanic did explain how low enough refrigerant could reduce pressure enough that certain valves wouldn't work but so far focusing on that hasn't helped. I am no mechanic but it behaves (to me) more like a temp sensor, short circuit/fuse, loose wire/hose, slipping belt, or something that explains the cutting in and out.
My question: Have you had a similar A/C problem and what was the issue? Do you think this really is just a coolant leak that we can't find? What can I, a city dweller without many car-specific tools who parks in the street, check myself? Where can I find a system diagram of my particular car to see if I can jiggle hoses/wires to make sure they're seated properly? Is there anything I can observe (belts/compressor) while the car is running but parked that could help here?
Thanks for any help you can provide. If Car Talk were still around, I'd be submitting this as a Stump the Chump.
My 2004 Mazda3 hatchback has about 50k miles on it. It's always had somewhat anemic air conditioning, which I understand is common for this model/year (the first year the Mazda3 was sold). The current problem, however, is more significant yet intermittent; and despite multiple attempts to determine any correlating circumstances, very hard to pin down.
It started about 2 summers ago (possibly coincidentally) after hitting a pothole pretty hard. The fans keep working but the actual air coming in is just outside air. Not cold, not dehumidified. Since that time, it continues to go out and come back. The cycles are seemingly random - as short as a few minutes to as long as a few hours. It seems more likely to happen when the car is under load - when it's really hot out, when there's a lot of starting and stopping, or when the sun is especially intense - but that could also just be when I'm more likely to be running the A/C.
I've taken the car to the mechanic twice for this issue. Both times the A/C was not working when I made the appointment but was back to working again at the time of the appointment, so they couldn't really troubleshoot. Last summer, they did a typical A/C service - pulling the refrigerant and seeing how much was in there, checking for ability to hold a vacuum, and adding dye to the refrigerant to check for leaks. It holds a vacuum and the dye showed no leaks. I immediately went on a long road rip after this service, driving from Chicago to the East Coast and back. The A/C worked ok until we hit Ohio and then cut out and didn't appear to be coming back, so we turned it off. The next day it was working fine again, and worked for the rest of the trip.
However, it continues to cut in and out so I took it in again before a short road trip this weekend. Once again, it happened to be working at the time of the appointment so they did the regular A/C service. They said the refrigerant was down about a pound but also that the system held the vacuum so they didn't think there was a leak. Added the dye again and when I brought it back for a brake job the following week there was no evidence of a leak (however, the weather was cool that week so the A/C was not tested much.) The A/C continues to cut out and then start working again.
This intermittent problem is a real bear to diagnose because there's no way to predict what conditions will make the A/C cut out and thus time an appointment accordingly. I can't just keep paying for $200 A/C services for a 13 year old car that aren't solving the problem.
When it stops working, I've tried turning all the fan/temp knobs back and forth and clicking the A/C button off and on and it doesn't change anything.
To me it seems not like a refrigerant issue, which would lead to anemic but still working cooling unless I was down a lot. The mechanic did explain how low enough refrigerant could reduce pressure enough that certain valves wouldn't work but so far focusing on that hasn't helped. I am no mechanic but it behaves (to me) more like a temp sensor, short circuit/fuse, loose wire/hose, slipping belt, or something that explains the cutting in and out.
My question: Have you had a similar A/C problem and what was the issue? Do you think this really is just a coolant leak that we can't find? What can I, a city dweller without many car-specific tools who parks in the street, check myself? Where can I find a system diagram of my particular car to see if I can jiggle hoses/wires to make sure they're seated properly? Is there anything I can observe (belts/compressor) while the car is running but parked that could help here?
Thanks for any help you can provide. If Car Talk were still around, I'd be submitting this as a Stump the Chump.
When the A/C isn't working, is the compressor actually engaged? You'd have to look under the hood to be sure.
I'd see if maybe the a/c clutch is has a bad solenoid, the a/c switch in the dash is effed, or the trinary switch - that calls for the compressor below a certain refrigerant pressure but not if it's too low - is dying.
posted by notsnot at 9:47 AM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd see if maybe the a/c clutch is has a bad solenoid, the a/c switch in the dash is effed, or the trinary switch - that calls for the compressor below a certain refrigerant pressure but not if it's too low - is dying.
posted by notsnot at 9:47 AM on May 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Our Honda CRV had this problem and the mechanic said it was a faulty fuse. They replaced it for like $45 and it seems to have done the trick...
posted by msbubbaclees at 9:49 AM on May 31, 2017
posted by msbubbaclees at 9:49 AM on May 31, 2017
I know very little about cars but when mine quit working it was the cabin air filter. There were instructions on how to change it on youtube (mine was located behind my glove box). I read a bunch of forums and saw that this was a known issue on my 2009 Honda Fit. It was really dirty and had leaves stuck to it. A friend who works on his cars told me that's what it probably was. I was appalled at the price of a filter at the local parts shop, even the cheap one, not the dealer so I found one online for $12 instead of $35.
Might be worth checking out if that might be a known issue on yours.
posted by BoscosMom at 9:52 AM on May 31, 2017
Might be worth checking out if that might be a known issue on yours.
posted by BoscosMom at 9:52 AM on May 31, 2017
Have you checked the forums? This one looks good. See if any of these ring a bell or maybe ask your question there.
posted by BoscosMom at 10:17 AM on May 31, 2017
posted by BoscosMom at 10:17 AM on May 31, 2017
It sounds like you have an intermittent electrical problem, which points to a/c clutch. Maybe ask around for a local recommendation for a shop that specializes in auto air repairs?
posted by fixedgear at 10:21 AM on May 31, 2017
posted by fixedgear at 10:21 AM on May 31, 2017
My car pulled this nonsense during a mid-summer cross-Texas roadtrip - never knew I could sweat that much and I'm from this part of the country. I had a few mechanics try to sell me a new compressor when all it really was crap wiring placement under the cabin air filter. I happened upon that fix by absolute chance after replacing the motor myself to see if it was the issue... lo, it was just the wiring. People's feet touch the exposed wiring module with the blower motor and it will kill the conditioned air, but I will still see/hear the front fans engaged and see the compressor getting voltage/etc. I actually have to re-engage the blower motor by twiddling the wiring until it kicks back on, then secure it with electrical tape and zip ties until it needs re-doing again.
In my car, the wiring is directly under the glove compartment and is fairly easy to twiddle even in traffic. I suggest turning on your car with the a/c engaged, then tapping/wiggling around under the area where your model's blower motor is. See if that is the problem.
posted by missh at 10:25 AM on May 31, 2017
In my car, the wiring is directly under the glove compartment and is fairly easy to twiddle even in traffic. I suggest turning on your car with the a/c engaged, then tapping/wiggling around under the area where your model's blower motor is. See if that is the problem.
posted by missh at 10:25 AM on May 31, 2017
I had a 2004 Mazda3 and remember the anemic AC well. Something that comes to mind is that the evaporator could be icing up and blocking airflow. Once you shut off the AC, the ice melts after a while, and it starts working again.
posted by zsazsa at 11:52 AM on May 31, 2017
posted by zsazsa at 11:52 AM on May 31, 2017
I had a Mazda6 of a similar vintage and, while I never had issues, remember reading about a similar issue.
It's hard to track down, but the vent louver inside the dash might be to blame. Basically, the bit in the actual vent duct that controls whether it's closed/open (or feeding you outside air versus a/c air) is not working properly.
posted by mikeh at 12:27 PM on May 31, 2017
It's hard to track down, but the vent louver inside the dash might be to blame. Basically, the bit in the actual vent duct that controls whether it's closed/open (or feeding you outside air versus a/c air) is not working properly.
posted by mikeh at 12:27 PM on May 31, 2017
I have a 2005 Mazda3 and have also had intermittent A/C issues. Does your car have a light on the A/C button that indicates whether it's running or not? In my case I'm pretty sure it's just a short in the controls -- when the A/C cuts out, the light goes off, but I can get things working again by gently wiggling the dial. For a while it would run when set on 1 or 3 but not 2; at the moment it will run on any setting but needs to be lined up just right. You may have already thought of and eliminated this possibility, but I figured it's worth checking.
posted by josyphine at 12:32 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by josyphine at 12:32 PM on May 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: FWIW, the green A/C light remains on, even when it's clearly not blowing cold air. While switching dials and pushing buttons does control the things they are supposed to, it doesn't affect whether or not the A/C is blowing cold.
Thanks, all, for your input so far. I downloaded a service manual and have a few things to check, but I fear that really getting it fixed will require taking it to a professional. I'm seeing lots of things about the compressor/clutch and that's $$$. The most recent A/C service and brake job cost me $900 (calipers were frozen, sigh) so I'll have to wait until I've saved up more money. And decide if a 13-year old car - but one with only 50k miles on it that I was hoping would last much longer - is worth the expense.
posted by misskaz at 12:58 PM on May 31, 2017
Thanks, all, for your input so far. I downloaded a service manual and have a few things to check, but I fear that really getting it fixed will require taking it to a professional. I'm seeing lots of things about the compressor/clutch and that's $$$. The most recent A/C service and brake job cost me $900 (calipers were frozen, sigh) so I'll have to wait until I've saved up more money. And decide if a 13-year old car - but one with only 50k miles on it that I was hoping would last much longer - is worth the expense.
posted by misskaz at 12:58 PM on May 31, 2017
If it works just fine, but only sometimes, your compressor is fine.
posted by notsnot at 2:27 PM on May 31, 2017
posted by notsnot at 2:27 PM on May 31, 2017
I have this problem with my 2005 3 as well, except my light goes off. Forums I have researched suggest it's a bad/loose fan switch, and self-repairable. I plan on attempting the fix later this summer - let us know how you fare with yours!
posted by PaulaSchultz at 3:15 PM on May 31, 2017
posted by PaulaSchultz at 3:15 PM on May 31, 2017
The AC would do the same thing in my 2008 Mazda3, especially a couple hours into a road trip on hot, humid days. I found a number of people discussing the same issue on Mazda forums, and Mazda had a service bulletin out about the issue, which was that the evaporator was freezing up. I can't find a full copy of the TSB, but I found a preview shows that the TSB number was 07-004/08. It says that it applies to 2006-2008 models, but the 2004 may have a similar problem. I had it fixed under warranty, so I don't know how much it would cost, but the AC hasn't caused any problems since.
posted by capsizing at 7:29 PM on May 31, 2017
posted by capsizing at 7:29 PM on May 31, 2017
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