I want to buy a Mac laptop, just not one that exists
July 22, 2016 8:12 AM Subscribe
I’m planning to buy either a used Air or a new MacBook, though I wish I could wait for the next update instead. The Air has been on "Don't Buy" status at MacRumors for months. But a MacBook with comparable performance could be $500 more including the port adapters I’d need. (Is it ok to buy those cheap, from third party manufacturers, and to daisy-chain them?)
If I buy an Air, I'll go for a refurbished or used one -- likely the 2015 or '16 13” 1.6 GHz i5. It goes for $849-$899 (with 8GB/128GB) when it shows up from Apple or Gazelle.
To approximately match its performance would take the newest MacBook, which hasn't shown up refurbished yet, so that's $1249 (on Amazon), plus added cost for port adapters since the MacBook lacks ports.
I’m not as price-sensitive as I am value-sensitive. Neither of these seems like a good value. The Air is so long in the tooth, and lacks the retina display, which I love and which would be useful for some of my tasks. The MacBook has that display (plus force touch and a redesigned keyboard), but it’s so much more expensive for comparable performance, and lacks ports. I suspect the next update will thread this needle, but I can’t wait much longer. Advice?
If I buy an Air, I'll go for a refurbished or used one -- likely the 2015 or '16 13” 1.6 GHz i5. It goes for $849-$899 (with 8GB/128GB) when it shows up from Apple or Gazelle.
To approximately match its performance would take the newest MacBook, which hasn't shown up refurbished yet, so that's $1249 (on Amazon), plus added cost for port adapters since the MacBook lacks ports.
I’m not as price-sensitive as I am value-sensitive. Neither of these seems like a good value. The Air is so long in the tooth, and lacks the retina display, which I love and which would be useful for some of my tasks. The MacBook has that display (plus force touch and a redesigned keyboard), but it’s so much more expensive for comparable performance, and lacks ports. I suspect the next update will thread this needle, but I can’t wait much longer. Advice?
Response by poster: Thanks, but the problem is that the refurbished MacBooks are from 2015. Unlike the Airs, the processor in the MacBooks wasn't comparable to the performance I'm used to until it was updated in 2016. I'm definitely not interested in a Pro.
posted by daisyace at 9:08 AM on July 22, 2016
posted by daisyace at 9:08 AM on July 22, 2016
Best answer: It's kind of hard to tell what you mean by value in this case, especially when you're not interested in a pro, because a refurbished macbook pro with retina display for $1099 is a steal! You say you can't wait, but you also say that you want a good value right now...and also it seems that lack of ports is a concern.
For the record, i agree that the Air is a poor choice, and I would feel weird recommending the MacBook right now, too. The truth is, more performance will mean that the laptop will have a longer usable life, which to me conveys value. I don't know your reasons for not wanting a pro, but if it's because the specs are 'too high' for what you need, then I recommend thinking about the future when they'll be 'just right' and the other machines will feel 'too slow'.
posted by destructive cactus at 9:21 AM on July 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
For the record, i agree that the Air is a poor choice, and I would feel weird recommending the MacBook right now, too. The truth is, more performance will mean that the laptop will have a longer usable life, which to me conveys value. I don't know your reasons for not wanting a pro, but if it's because the specs are 'too high' for what you need, then I recommend thinking about the future when they'll be 'just right' and the other machines will feel 'too slow'.
posted by destructive cactus at 9:21 AM on July 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
September is the rumored next wave of macs, and it's really close, is there any way you can hang out? The new models may be pretty great...
posted by jenkinsEar at 9:30 AM on July 22, 2016
posted by jenkinsEar at 9:30 AM on July 22, 2016
Don't buy a Macbook now. Seriously. They're waaaay overdue for an update, and the community (well, at least according to the podcasts I listen to) is getting increasingly pissed off. The new ones are apparently going to be out later this year.
I'm waiting too - I desperately need to replace my dead iMac with a MBP, and am making do with a very underpowered Air in the meantime.
posted by cgg at 9:31 AM on July 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm waiting too - I desperately need to replace my dead iMac with a MBP, and am making do with a very underpowered Air in the meantime.
posted by cgg at 9:31 AM on July 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Gruber's thoughts on Mac lineup.
I don’t think, though, that the MacBook Air will ever get another update. I think it only exists to occupy the sub-$1000 price range until Apple can sell a year-old MacBook for $899. I wouldn’t be shocked if they rolled out a minor speed-bump update to the MacBook Airs, but I don’t expect them to. The future is just MacBooks and MacBook Pros.posted by terrapin at 9:41 AM on July 22, 2016
Response by poster: When I saw the Pro in person, it seemed bulky compared to the Air I'd been used to, and I didn't see compelling advantages, so I dropped it from the running before I even got into comparing detailed specs. But you have a point -- it has the retina screen and ports, the processor has been fast enough for long enough that I could buy used for a lot less than a new MacBook, and the differences in weight and thickness actually don't look bad in writing. I'll take another look in person, and if I dismissed it too soon, I'll start comparing its specs. Like the Air, it's been on "Don't Buy" status for quite a while at MacRumors. Maybe "Don't Buy" doesn't apply for buying used? But it seems like it would, since when the new one comes out, all the rest drop in price, too.
I'd really like to wait, but I expect to start project work soon and I don't have a computer. I'll wait to hit 'buy' until the last possible moment, thengrin grimace and bear it. But agreed, it's terrible timing -- that's the conundrum.
posted by daisyace at 9:53 AM on July 22, 2016
I'd really like to wait, but I expect to start project work soon and I don't have a computer. I'll wait to hit 'buy' until the last possible moment, then
posted by daisyace at 9:53 AM on July 22, 2016
Best answer: Obviously to each his (or her) own, but I have both a 13" MacBook Air and a 13" Retina MacBook Pro, and I find the weight/bulk to be a non-issue. I never consciously notice the difference - only if I'm doing a side-by side comparison. But of course it does depend on how you're using it.
posted by primethyme at 10:10 AM on July 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by primethyme at 10:10 AM on July 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Don't Buy is definitely for new, and honestly I think MacRumors keep things in that status for way too long. Sometimes you need a computer and can't wait a year. Especially given how easy it is to migrate one Mac to another, you might as well get something good enough for now and then plan to trade in.
There have been some problems with USB-C cables so definitely read reviews. Amazon was supposedly going to crack down on out-of-spec cables but I don't see how they can do that with so many products. The performance of USB-C, in particular, is important because there's potentially enough juice in there (100W) to fry circuitry or give you a shock. I don't have a specific recommendation for a hub or cables, unfortunately.
I have a Pro and it's true that it doesn't have the same absolute portability as the air. However, it's a much handier device, overall. The difference is mainly in the weight, not the size (the Air is one stinkin' millimeter thinner at the hinge). I've managed to lose the Pro several times around the house, when it was left under some mail or slipped down into the couch cushions, so it's definitely small and thin.
posted by wnissen at 10:13 AM on July 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
There have been some problems with USB-C cables so definitely read reviews. Amazon was supposedly going to crack down on out-of-spec cables but I don't see how they can do that with so many products. The performance of USB-C, in particular, is important because there's potentially enough juice in there (100W) to fry circuitry or give you a shock. I don't have a specific recommendation for a hub or cables, unfortunately.
I have a Pro and it's true that it doesn't have the same absolute portability as the air. However, it's a much handier device, overall. The difference is mainly in the weight, not the size (the Air is one stinkin' millimeter thinner at the hinge). I've managed to lose the Pro several times around the house, when it was left under some mail or slipped down into the couch cushions, so it's definitely small and thin.
posted by wnissen at 10:13 AM on July 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
It sounds like you want the Macbook. I'd splurge and get it. (Stop drinking Starbucks or treating yourself for a couple months to make up the difference.) The Macbook had an update in April, so it most likely won't get another update this year. The Macbook Air and Pro might, but then they'll be full priced too, no refurbs or discounts at third-party sellers immediately either. The longer you wait for a refurb of the 2016 Macbook, the longer in tooth it's processor will be, and you'll just end up waiting for the 2017 Macbook. So I say get it now and use it now.
posted by bluecore at 10:19 AM on July 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by bluecore at 10:19 AM on July 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: N.B. that while a 15" Pro is definitely much bulkier than an Air, the 13" Pro is only slightly bigger than the 13" Air, but the case carries a LOT more computer for not a lot more money.
posted by uberchet at 11:17 AM on July 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by uberchet at 11:17 AM on July 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I have a 13" Pro, and the new ones (mine is a 2015) are ridiculously light for laptops - there's, what, a half-pound difference between the two? I can carry my MBP in one hand easily. and it's much more computer than the Air.
posted by Tamanna at 11:34 AM on July 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Tamanna at 11:34 AM on July 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I strongly suggest you take a good look at the pro. I went from an air to a 13" pro and it's the best laptop I've ever used... I'm still perfectly (almost weirdly) happy with it after three years. It's also really durable... I dropped it onto a tile floor and it hit corner-first, and just got a little dent on the corner of the screen case.
I'd suggest getting the 256GB SSD, though, unless you're not planning on putting music or photos or any other bulky files on it.
posted by Huck500 at 11:36 AM on July 22, 2016
I'd suggest getting the 256GB SSD, though, unless you're not planning on putting music or photos or any other bulky files on it.
posted by Huck500 at 11:36 AM on July 22, 2016
I actually went and looked.
You might spec them differently, but for the 256GB SSD models with 8GB of storage, the breakout is like this:
13" Air @ $1199
You can also get more computer in the Pro package -- were I buying, I'd get the bigger drive, for example. My 13" pro has a 500 GB drive and 16 GB of RAM, but my needs might not be your needs.
posted by uberchet at 11:44 AM on July 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
You might spec them differently, but for the 256GB SSD models with 8GB of storage, the breakout is like this:
13" Air @ $1199
- 1.6 Ghz dual-core i5
- 1.7 cm tall (tapers to .3)
- 32.5 cm wide
- 22.7 cm deep
- 1.35 kg
- 2.7 Ghz dual-core i5
- 1.8 cm tall
- 31.4 cm wide
- 21.9 cm deep
- 1.58 kg
- Plus a MUCH MUCH MUCH better screen
You can also get more computer in the Pro package -- were I buying, I'd get the bigger drive, for example. My 13" pro has a 500 GB drive and 16 GB of RAM, but my needs might not be your needs.
posted by uberchet at 11:44 AM on July 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: As a counterpoint, I currently own both a 13" Air and a 13" Pro. I do notice the difference a lot, because I usually use my laptop on my lap on the couch and carry it with one hand (much harder with the Pro than the Air). I don't notice much difference with the screen, but I'm not doing graphics work. When I travel, I always take the Air even though it's my work laptop and lacks my personal apps/data.
However, IIRC my 13" Air is a top-spec model and my Pro is medium-spec (in processor and RAM; I didn't care about the hard drive because I don't have a ton of personal media). If I'd purchased both of them, the Pro would probably be cheaper. Performance is indistinguishable to me. For value, unless you highly value weight and one-handed portability, the Pro is probably a better deal.
posted by serelliya at 12:19 PM on July 22, 2016
However, IIRC my 13" Air is a top-spec model and my Pro is medium-spec (in processor and RAM; I didn't care about the hard drive because I don't have a ton of personal media). If I'd purchased both of them, the Pro would probably be cheaper. Performance is indistinguishable to me. For value, unless you highly value weight and one-handed portability, the Pro is probably a better deal.
posted by serelliya at 12:19 PM on July 22, 2016
Best answer: I recently had my laptop stolen. It's my only computer and I use it for work so I was stuck buying another one immediately.
I bought the 12" Macbook first. I gave it a go for two weeks to see how it worked for daily use. I really liked it. The screen and form factor are amazing. It does have a good amount of power. I was surprised. The USB-C thing wasn't much of an issue. I had a third-party dongle that worked well.
I ended up returning it and going back to the 13" Retina Macbook Pro. My software development work turned out to be too much for the entry-level m3 processor. The Pro is a tad bit more expensive. I find it to be more than portable enough for my daily switch between coffee shops and coworking spaces.
I think the 13" rMBP is the best value in the lineup right now. That said, wait it out. I'll probably be buying the new one when Apple releases it. The new slim form-factor with some faster guts would be fantastic.
posted by thebigdeadwaltz at 12:25 PM on July 22, 2016
I bought the 12" Macbook first. I gave it a go for two weeks to see how it worked for daily use. I really liked it. The screen and form factor are amazing. It does have a good amount of power. I was surprised. The USB-C thing wasn't much of an issue. I had a third-party dongle that worked well.
I ended up returning it and going back to the 13" Retina Macbook Pro. My software development work turned out to be too much for the entry-level m3 processor. The Pro is a tad bit more expensive. I find it to be more than portable enough for my daily switch between coffee shops and coworking spaces.
I think the 13" rMBP is the best value in the lineup right now. That said, wait it out. I'll probably be buying the new one when Apple releases it. The new slim form-factor with some faster guts would be fantastic.
posted by thebigdeadwaltz at 12:25 PM on July 22, 2016
Actually, I just looked up pricing and the Pro is still a bit more expensive than the Air with i7 processor. I would recommend that processor upgrade if you go with the Air, or any current-gen ultraportable.
posted by serelliya at 12:25 PM on July 22, 2016
posted by serelliya at 12:25 PM on July 22, 2016
(I admit I'm a little baffled that one would find a half pound difference in the Air and Pro to make it "much harder" to carry in one hand. Both are absurdly small laptops in the greater scheme of things.)
posted by uberchet at 1:00 PM on July 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by uberchet at 1:00 PM on July 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You haven't said what you want it for, which is the critical question.
The MacBook is for when form is the critical issue. Everything is about the size. The upgrade in 2016 was almost completely insignificant, you can consider them identical to the 2015 for most purposes. They are fine for day to day computing tasks, office, and so on. If you are planning any video processing or other intensive computing then they are out of the running. But then again, so are all but the highest specification Airs. They are much more capable than the posters on macrumors would have you believe, but they are a premium tiny portable and probably not suitable if budget is any concern at all.
If you need processing power I'd suggest a 13" pro, refurbished if you like. If you can stomach the screen, the Air is better value for less intensive work. If you don't care about ultimate power and are willing to pay the significant premium for the MacBook, then go for that.
Don't wait for a significant update for either the air or the MacBook this year. The MacBook has already been updated, the airs aren't likely to get much. The MacBook Pro is the one getting the big upgrades later in the year.
posted by tillsbury at 1:17 PM on July 22, 2016
The MacBook is for when form is the critical issue. Everything is about the size. The upgrade in 2016 was almost completely insignificant, you can consider them identical to the 2015 for most purposes. They are fine for day to day computing tasks, office, and so on. If you are planning any video processing or other intensive computing then they are out of the running. But then again, so are all but the highest specification Airs. They are much more capable than the posters on macrumors would have you believe, but they are a premium tiny portable and probably not suitable if budget is any concern at all.
If you need processing power I'd suggest a 13" pro, refurbished if you like. If you can stomach the screen, the Air is better value for less intensive work. If you don't care about ultimate power and are willing to pay the significant premium for the MacBook, then go for that.
Don't wait for a significant update for either the air or the MacBook this year. The MacBook has already been updated, the airs aren't likely to get much. The MacBook Pro is the one getting the big upgrades later in the year.
posted by tillsbury at 1:17 PM on July 22, 2016
Best answer: Oh, and don't whatever you do go for budget adapters for the MacBook nor bet on being able to piggyback them.
posted by tillsbury at 1:19 PM on July 22, 2016
posted by tillsbury at 1:19 PM on July 22, 2016
Response by poster: Thanks for all the help so far, which confirms that the next step is to go handle a Pro in person and see how I feel about it.
Tillsbury, point taken that it depends on my intended use. Up until May, I had a 2012, 13” 2.0GHz i7 Air from my employer. As a proxy for getting into particular uses, I'll say that its performance suited me well. That is, I don't want to pay for much of an upgrade in speed (maybe a little, for the future-proofing that destructive cactus suggests), but I don't want a downgrade. I thought I'd seen speed tests that showed the 2015 MacBooks as a noticeable step down, and the 2016 ones as a smaller step down or a slight step up, depending on the particular measure.
I do carry my laptop around and travel with it. I do have uses where the retina display would matter. I do anticipate plugging in a monitor, power, and an external hard drive all at once, or a projector, power, and a thumb drive, and/or maybe other devices. Essentially, I want a refurbished Pro but sleeker... or a new MacBook but cheaper and with another couple of ports... or a refurbished Air, but with a retina screen.
I.e., I want the next update, but now!
posted by daisyace at 5:12 PM on July 22, 2016
Tillsbury, point taken that it depends on my intended use. Up until May, I had a 2012, 13” 2.0GHz i7 Air from my employer. As a proxy for getting into particular uses, I'll say that its performance suited me well. That is, I don't want to pay for much of an upgrade in speed (maybe a little, for the future-proofing that destructive cactus suggests), but I don't want a downgrade. I thought I'd seen speed tests that showed the 2015 MacBooks as a noticeable step down, and the 2016 ones as a smaller step down or a slight step up, depending on the particular measure.
I do carry my laptop around and travel with it. I do have uses where the retina display would matter. I do anticipate plugging in a monitor, power, and an external hard drive all at once, or a projector, power, and a thumb drive, and/or maybe other devices. Essentially, I want a refurbished Pro but sleeker... or a new MacBook but cheaper and with another couple of ports... or a refurbished Air, but with a retina screen.
I.e., I want the next update, but now!
posted by daisyace at 5:12 PM on July 22, 2016
Best answer: The Macbook won't get anywhere near the raw processing power of an i7 Air, and isn't likely to in any update soon. Bear in mind also that the Air only has to push a tiny fraction of the pixels of any Retina device, and so will always feel quicker than it might otherwise. That said, you won't notice the difference unless you are doing heavy graphics and heavy processing. In fact, the higher SSD speed and other elements of the Macbook might actually make it feel quicker for ordinary office computing tasks.
Go play with a 13" pro if power is what you want and ports are a necessity for you. The Macbook isn't designed for that kind of use. Bear in mind the Pro is likely to be upgraded in the next two or three months, so if you decide you need the power and the screen then you have to make the decision whether to wait.
posted by tillsbury at 12:40 AM on July 24, 2016
Go play with a 13" pro if power is what you want and ports are a necessity for you. The Macbook isn't designed for that kind of use. Bear in mind the Pro is likely to be upgraded in the next two or three months, so if you decide you need the power and the screen then you have to make the decision whether to wait.
posted by tillsbury at 12:40 AM on July 24, 2016
Best answer: Last year I bought a maxed out (8/256) 2013 mba 11" from eBay that still included a bit of Applecare. It was around $650. I've been super happy with it, but because it was somewhat less expensive, if my dream computer comes out I'll have fewer qualms buying it. But the truth is it's so great... And anyway my 2010 4/128 11" is still kicking just fine with the new battery I put in (all by myself) for about $40, and I leave it at work and don't worry too much about it.
If you were happy with your 2012 and none of the newer ones feel just right, I say (carefully) buy a used one and save your splurge. And don't worry too much about future proofing, partly because it's cheaper and partly because they seem to last forever.
(I personally think the 13" mbp is the poorest value, even with the retina screen, but to each their own and I do feel the weight/shape difference. Though I can see that this could be different for someone primarily traveling by car. But saying, it's not crazy to reject that model either).
posted by Salamandrous at 4:10 AM on July 25, 2016
If you were happy with your 2012 and none of the newer ones feel just right, I say (carefully) buy a used one and save your splurge. And don't worry too much about future proofing, partly because it's cheaper and partly because they seem to last forever.
(I personally think the 13" mbp is the poorest value, even with the retina screen, but to each their own and I do feel the weight/shape difference. Though I can see that this could be different for someone primarily traveling by car. But saying, it's not crazy to reject that model either).
posted by Salamandrous at 4:10 AM on July 25, 2016
Response by poster: You all convinced me that the MacBook isn't the way to go. Too expensive for not enough performance, and lacking ports that I shouldn't rely on cheap adapters to replace.
You mostly convinced me that the used Pro would be it. Barely bulkier, and performance so good that I could go back to a late 2013 model to save $ without it being a step down from what I was used to. So I went and handled one... and sadly, I do find it bulkier enough to be a turnoff. I think I'd dislike the bulkier feel more than I'd dislike missing out on the retina display.
So, that means the ~$850 refurbished Air. I'm waiting until I have a definite start date for my project and can't go a day longer without a computer. When the update does come out, if it's less than 14 days later, great, I'll exchange it. If it's not, I'll see how much of a hit I'd take selling the Air then. Worst case, I can live with it for an additional year or so until the update can be had refurbished, and then sell the Air.
It's not a great solution, but with your input, I feel clearer that it's the probably the best of the bad options for me. So thank you!
For anyone still reading, a bonus question... It would be unethical to use Apple's 14-day return policy back-to-back repeatedly, right? I'd mostly be hoping that the update would come out while I was still eligible for a return, though I also really would see how I feel about the retina display, form factor, keyboard style, ports, performance levels, etc. in day-to-day use.
posted by daisyace at 7:42 AM on July 29, 2016
You mostly convinced me that the used Pro would be it. Barely bulkier, and performance so good that I could go back to a late 2013 model to save $ without it being a step down from what I was used to. So I went and handled one... and sadly, I do find it bulkier enough to be a turnoff. I think I'd dislike the bulkier feel more than I'd dislike missing out on the retina display.
So, that means the ~$850 refurbished Air. I'm waiting until I have a definite start date for my project and can't go a day longer without a computer. When the update does come out, if it's less than 14 days later, great, I'll exchange it. If it's not, I'll see how much of a hit I'd take selling the Air then. Worst case, I can live with it for an additional year or so until the update can be had refurbished, and then sell the Air.
It's not a great solution, but with your input, I feel clearer that it's the probably the best of the bad options for me. So thank you!
For anyone still reading, a bonus question... It would be unethical to use Apple's 14-day return policy back-to-back repeatedly, right? I'd mostly be hoping that the update would come out while I was still eligible for a return, though I also really would see how I feel about the retina display, form factor, keyboard style, ports, performance levels, etc. in day-to-day use.
posted by daisyace at 7:42 AM on July 29, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
Or, buy a refurbished 13" MB Pro with Retina display.
posted by inviolable at 8:54 AM on July 22, 2016 [3 favorites]