Should I rock the boat?
March 19, 2016 1:01 PM Subscribe
I have written a letter to my mother in which I try to show her that her marriage to my father is not what it claims to be, and that the promised happy times that are always just around the corner are probably never going to come. Should I send it?
She and I have been corresponding and I feel we've been coming towards this. We are both abuse survivors (her father, my grandfather, he abused us both) and we've talked openly about this a few times. I see a broader pattern of abuse in her life which has continued in her marriage.
Right now he is 65 years old and working 7 days a week. He is obsessed with a major career achievement that he feels will win him immortality but which is essentially a grand delusion. He's beginning to sound like a crank and is humiliating himself but only perceives others oppressing him. He seems incapable of anything but work. I believe he is totally addicted to it. My mother says he is becoming difficult to live with because he is so obsessed. I am troubled, because he seems to be getting worse.
Despite this she is holding onto an idea that in five years he is going to quit and they are going to retire together somewhere sunny and warm and be happy together. She has been holding onto this idea for a long time. (the goalposts have already moved once - he was supposed to retire at 65.) I don't think it is ever going to happen and it is breaking my heart to watch.
I grew up in this family, and I bought into a story that we were perfect and happy and everything was fine. After years of hard work unravelling things I see a history of manipulation, hostility, emotional blackmail, simmering anger, and especially sacrifice, namely hers. None of us are perfect, but he is the black hole we all orbit. All of us have been used as fuel in various ways - as shields against his pain.
She tells me she's happy but I don't buy it; she's dropped enough hints that contradict this. He went away for a conference recently (the first time he's ever travelled by himself in 40 years of marriage) and she sprang to life, she was happy, she wrote two songs after years of being blocked. And now he's back and the light's off again. I feel she is stuck in this system; the reality is too dark to face so she is holding onto the story. I have gently tugged at this reality a bit, tried to encourage her to have her own life, and she has said it's impossible and changed the subject. I won't get into the details, but their marriage has been one of 100% giving on her end and 100% taking on his; he got the life he wanted and she had to give up her dreams; he has been completely absent, cold, unloving, childlike; she's parented him for their entire marriage. Probably the most egregious thing is that he drives like a damned maniac and gets all angry and huffy if you ask him to slow down. So on top of everything I worry he is going to crash the car and kill them both one day.
I feel if nothing changes, then nothing will change. Until one of them gets sick or dies. And I am so damned sad at the thought of her dying still hoping for a future that never came. Now, I have got this idea in my head that it is possible for things to change. If I rock the boat; if I refuse to play along with the myth; if I reach out to my mother I can try to build an adult relationship with her in the present which is based on truth. So I wrote a letter. But I found that in order for me to say anything true, I had to first unpack and explain everything I've learned about the family dynamic. And what I wound up doing was making a case that the story is not true - that her marriage does not look happy to me - that rather it looks very sad.
I haven't sent the letter yet. One outcome of this could be that it destroys the fragile happiness she has carved out for herself in this marriage; it makes it impossible for her to go on pretending that she is happy, and thus she loses out on something that she really needs. She loses the idea that her marriage has been a happy one. Who am I to take that away?
On the other hand, I'm only offering truth, only pointing out things that happened and showing how they don't add up, which means she really is living a lie, and she is in there somewhere and if I can help her be even a little bit more free, isn't it worth trying? Isn't it better to live in the true world, even if it's unbearably painful?
What should I do? Send it and shatter the status quo but reach towards the truth and towards healing, or hold my tongue and preserve the stability of her life?
She and I have been corresponding and I feel we've been coming towards this. We are both abuse survivors (her father, my grandfather, he abused us both) and we've talked openly about this a few times. I see a broader pattern of abuse in her life which has continued in her marriage.
Right now he is 65 years old and working 7 days a week. He is obsessed with a major career achievement that he feels will win him immortality but which is essentially a grand delusion. He's beginning to sound like a crank and is humiliating himself but only perceives others oppressing him. He seems incapable of anything but work. I believe he is totally addicted to it. My mother says he is becoming difficult to live with because he is so obsessed. I am troubled, because he seems to be getting worse.
Despite this she is holding onto an idea that in five years he is going to quit and they are going to retire together somewhere sunny and warm and be happy together. She has been holding onto this idea for a long time. (the goalposts have already moved once - he was supposed to retire at 65.) I don't think it is ever going to happen and it is breaking my heart to watch.
I grew up in this family, and I bought into a story that we were perfect and happy and everything was fine. After years of hard work unravelling things I see a history of manipulation, hostility, emotional blackmail, simmering anger, and especially sacrifice, namely hers. None of us are perfect, but he is the black hole we all orbit. All of us have been used as fuel in various ways - as shields against his pain.
She tells me she's happy but I don't buy it; she's dropped enough hints that contradict this. He went away for a conference recently (the first time he's ever travelled by himself in 40 years of marriage) and she sprang to life, she was happy, she wrote two songs after years of being blocked. And now he's back and the light's off again. I feel she is stuck in this system; the reality is too dark to face so she is holding onto the story. I have gently tugged at this reality a bit, tried to encourage her to have her own life, and she has said it's impossible and changed the subject. I won't get into the details, but their marriage has been one of 100% giving on her end and 100% taking on his; he got the life he wanted and she had to give up her dreams; he has been completely absent, cold, unloving, childlike; she's parented him for their entire marriage. Probably the most egregious thing is that he drives like a damned maniac and gets all angry and huffy if you ask him to slow down. So on top of everything I worry he is going to crash the car and kill them both one day.
I feel if nothing changes, then nothing will change. Until one of them gets sick or dies. And I am so damned sad at the thought of her dying still hoping for a future that never came. Now, I have got this idea in my head that it is possible for things to change. If I rock the boat; if I refuse to play along with the myth; if I reach out to my mother I can try to build an adult relationship with her in the present which is based on truth. So I wrote a letter. But I found that in order for me to say anything true, I had to first unpack and explain everything I've learned about the family dynamic. And what I wound up doing was making a case that the story is not true - that her marriage does not look happy to me - that rather it looks very sad.
I haven't sent the letter yet. One outcome of this could be that it destroys the fragile happiness she has carved out for herself in this marriage; it makes it impossible for her to go on pretending that she is happy, and thus she loses out on something that she really needs. She loses the idea that her marriage has been a happy one. Who am I to take that away?
On the other hand, I'm only offering truth, only pointing out things that happened and showing how they don't add up, which means she really is living a lie, and she is in there somewhere and if I can help her be even a little bit more free, isn't it worth trying? Isn't it better to live in the true world, even if it's unbearably painful?
What should I do? Send it and shatter the status quo but reach towards the truth and towards healing, or hold my tongue and preserve the stability of her life?
Don't send it. Whatever truth you see from outside of her marriage could never be more true from what she sees from inside. I promise you, if whatever she is holding on to is actually a lie, she knows. She is a grown woman. You are not going to shatter the status quo by sending her this letter. All you are going to do is make her feel ashamed and bad about it.
posted by pazazygeek at 1:13 PM on March 19, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by pazazygeek at 1:13 PM on March 19, 2016 [20 favorites]
Do not send it.
I know you mean this with the best of intentions, but you cannot save someone who does not want to be saved. She is an adult, capable of making her own decisions, even if they are ones you do not agree with, and I cannot believe that after 40 years of marriage she is unaware of the particulars of her situation. Based on what you have written, I believe it would be deeply unfair and patronizing to your mother to unload this on her for your own peace of mind.
posted by Diagonalize at 1:13 PM on March 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
I know you mean this with the best of intentions, but you cannot save someone who does not want to be saved. She is an adult, capable of making her own decisions, even if they are ones you do not agree with, and I cannot believe that after 40 years of marriage she is unaware of the particulars of her situation. Based on what you have written, I believe it would be deeply unfair and patronizing to your mother to unload this on her for your own peace of mind.
posted by Diagonalize at 1:13 PM on March 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
You can't change other people. I don't know your whole family situation or what's in that letter but I have a strong feeling that it won't affect your mother the way you think it will. I assume your parents have been together for some time now, she knows this is what she signed up for and she's still there.
Give her the support if she wants to get out, but butt out otherwise.
posted by fox problems at 1:15 PM on March 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Give her the support if she wants to get out, but butt out otherwise.
posted by fox problems at 1:15 PM on March 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Send it and shatter the status quo but reach towards the truth and towards healing, or hold my tongue and preserve the stability of her life?
Neither of these cause-and-effect pairs would necessarily work out the way you're imagining. My guess is that another, more likely set of possibilities, is that you either send it and shatter your relationship with her, thereby cementing the status quo, or you hold your tongue and continue supporting her as she finds her own way through her own life, possibly lending her the courage to take steps she otherwise wouldn't.
posted by jon1270 at 1:21 PM on March 19, 2016 [50 favorites]
Neither of these cause-and-effect pairs would necessarily work out the way you're imagining. My guess is that another, more likely set of possibilities, is that you either send it and shatter your relationship with her, thereby cementing the status quo, or you hold your tongue and continue supporting her as she finds her own way through her own life, possibly lending her the courage to take steps she otherwise wouldn't.
posted by jon1270 at 1:21 PM on March 19, 2016 [50 favorites]
I'm only offering my version of the truth (boldface is mine)
You are not the arbiter of her truth. I realize you believe that your intentions are good, but you aren't living her life and don't see it 24/7. It sounds like you are corresponding, not cohabitating. Even if you were, we can't see inside someone else's marriage.
Instead, offer your non-judgemental support. That means non-judgement of her, her marriage and her choices.
posted by 26.2 at 1:22 PM on March 19, 2016 [7 favorites]
You are not the arbiter of her truth. I realize you believe that your intentions are good, but you aren't living her life and don't see it 24/7. It sounds like you are corresponding, not cohabitating. Even if you were, we can't see inside someone else's marriage.
Instead, offer your non-judgemental support. That means non-judgement of her, her marriage and her choices.
posted by 26.2 at 1:22 PM on March 19, 2016 [7 favorites]
Your mother's relationship is her business, not yours. Throw away that letter. It's going to do nothing for her relationship with her husband, and can only do harm to her relationship with you.
posted by xingcat at 1:26 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 1:26 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Isn't it better to live in the true world, even if it's unbearably painful?
It's her life. You don't get to make that decision for her. Do not send the letter.
posted by ELind at 1:31 PM on March 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's her life. You don't get to make that decision for her. Do not send the letter.
posted by ELind at 1:31 PM on March 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Who appointed you the arbiter of your mother's happiness and truth? Who told you you have the power over her that you seem to think you do? This is so overstepping the bounds of a parent/child relationship, I just don't know where to begin. No, don't send that letter. This is not your business. It sounds like you've already told her what you think previously and were shut down. Respect her previous responses and don't do this.
posted by cecic at 1:38 PM on March 19, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by cecic at 1:38 PM on March 19, 2016 [13 favorites]
I have a family member who sends me emails on painful topics in a style similar to what you describe. They are upsetting to me and this person is no longer welcome in our home. I think these ideas should be discussed and dealt with in therapy.
posted by catspajammies at 1:43 PM on March 19, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by catspajammies at 1:43 PM on March 19, 2016 [17 favorites]
Don't send the letter, for all the reasons outlines above. But you can create safe spaces for your mother to find respite... if, and only if, you can do it without grandstanding or editorializing. Take her to a songwriting workshop. Get your father out of the house again. Whatever... But keep your mouth shut and don't be a buttinsky to either of them. Not your circus, not your monkeys.
posted by carmicha at 1:45 PM on March 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 1:45 PM on March 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
Invite her to come spend a week with you. Not to talk to her- just to give her a space to be away from him (but don't say that's the reason). I think that's the only concrete thing you could do that might actually help.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:50 PM on March 19, 2016 [69 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:50 PM on March 19, 2016 [69 favorites]
I think a lot of the answers so far are very dismissive of your reading of the situation but my advice is the same, and having been in a situation similar to what you describe, a letter wouldn't have budged me.
That said, the observations that your father's goals seem unrealistic, that she appears happier when she has more time and space for her interests, that she's doing all the emotional labour...these are all opinions that humans have a right to share with each other. You shouldn't feel terrified about voicing them to her in casual conversation. Some families, who aren't walking on eggshells all the time, feel they can say that shit without the world coming to an end.
posted by bonobothegreat at 1:55 PM on March 19, 2016 [18 favorites]
That said, the observations that your father's goals seem unrealistic, that she appears happier when she has more time and space for her interests, that she's doing all the emotional labour...these are all opinions that humans have a right to share with each other. You shouldn't feel terrified about voicing them to her in casual conversation. Some families, who aren't walking on eggshells all the time, feel they can say that shit without the world coming to an end.
posted by bonobothegreat at 1:55 PM on March 19, 2016 [18 favorites]
Even if she needed to hear "leave immediately, you are in physical danger," a letter from her child is not going to work.
I suggest you give her as much social interaction and emotional support as you can afford to, and share your understanding of the facts with your own therapist because you have a lot of stuff here you need to deal with.
posted by SMPA at 1:56 PM on March 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
I suggest you give her as much social interaction and emotional support as you can afford to, and share your understanding of the facts with your own therapist because you have a lot of stuff here you need to deal with.
posted by SMPA at 1:56 PM on March 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
I agree with the advice that you shouldn’t send the letter, but strongly disagree with the idea that your parents’ relationship is no concern of yours. I assume that you grew up with both your parents (it’s not entirely clear from your question) and that this dynamic is what you witnessed throughout your life.
It is incredibly difficult for a child to continually see one parent diminished by the other, and folding themselves into ever smaller bits to fit the box their partner has created. There is a lot of research indicating that growing up in a loveless, cold, household can be extremely harmful to a child’s development. In fact, this is always pointed out here, on Metafilter.
So I think that witnessing this growing up, and now, as an (I assume young) adult, must be very painful for you, and that this is what moves your desire to see your mum independent and fulfilled.
I agree with other posters that sending your letter will do nothing to better your mother’s situation, nor will it do anything to deal with your pain and confusion*.
It is more important for you, I think, than for your mum to get a handle on these issues. She had 40 years to somehow get comfortable with it, and by your own account, she has made her peace with how things are. If I were you, I’d go to therapy to learn about boundaries (I mean how to set them for yourself, so that YOU can be healthy and OK with life) and how not to get into similar dynamics**. It is important for you to deal with this urge of saving your mum (this sounds kind of contemptuous; I don’t mean it that way, but don’t know how to phrase it better). I find it completely understandable, but it can easily derail your life in all sorts of unexpected ways.
Please go to therapy for yourself. I think being healthy and fulfilled yourself is by far the greatest help you can give your mum – and might make her open up to you in ways that would now be impossible.
*My mum tried to do this for my grandma – massive backfire, and the experience actually traumatized my mum. I did the same thing for my mum (who had, in fact, declared that she wanted to divorce my dad – I just enthusiastically embraced the idea. Guess what – this backfired, too, in ways that irredeemably destroyed my relationship with my mum).
**Especially if you are a woman, it would be quite easy to draw the conclusion, subconsciously, that your talents and your own fulfillment are not worth much, if you’ve seen your mother abandon hers.
posted by miorita at 2:04 PM on March 19, 2016 [22 favorites]
It is incredibly difficult for a child to continually see one parent diminished by the other, and folding themselves into ever smaller bits to fit the box their partner has created. There is a lot of research indicating that growing up in a loveless, cold, household can be extremely harmful to a child’s development. In fact, this is always pointed out here, on Metafilter.
So I think that witnessing this growing up, and now, as an (I assume young) adult, must be very painful for you, and that this is what moves your desire to see your mum independent and fulfilled.
I agree with other posters that sending your letter will do nothing to better your mother’s situation, nor will it do anything to deal with your pain and confusion*.
It is more important for you, I think, than for your mum to get a handle on these issues. She had 40 years to somehow get comfortable with it, and by your own account, she has made her peace with how things are. If I were you, I’d go to therapy to learn about boundaries (I mean how to set them for yourself, so that YOU can be healthy and OK with life) and how not to get into similar dynamics**. It is important for you to deal with this urge of saving your mum (this sounds kind of contemptuous; I don’t mean it that way, but don’t know how to phrase it better). I find it completely understandable, but it can easily derail your life in all sorts of unexpected ways.
Please go to therapy for yourself. I think being healthy and fulfilled yourself is by far the greatest help you can give your mum – and might make her open up to you in ways that would now be impossible.
*My mum tried to do this for my grandma – massive backfire, and the experience actually traumatized my mum. I did the same thing for my mum (who had, in fact, declared that she wanted to divorce my dad – I just enthusiastically embraced the idea. Guess what – this backfired, too, in ways that irredeemably destroyed my relationship with my mum).
**Especially if you are a woman, it would be quite easy to draw the conclusion, subconsciously, that your talents and your own fulfillment are not worth much, if you’ve seen your mother abandon hers.
posted by miorita at 2:04 PM on March 19, 2016 [22 favorites]
Before you send a letter like that, consider if the reverse occurred – if your mother sent you the same letter. One that 'unpacks and establishes the family dynamic' and then pleads with you to make a major change in your life that involves upending everything.
What might you think? Would you take her view of your reality seriously, or would you take it as a statement of something not being settled within her? Meaning, if you read a screed from her about your life, would it motivate you to action in your own life? Doubtful. Maybe you'd think about it a bit, and have a look around.
Most likely is that you would think she's not capable of dealing with her own problems and therefore attacking you because it's easier to be obsessed with your problems than to fix her own.
I wonder if that's happening here – if you're avoiding something within your own life by focusing very deeply on your parents' life.
posted by nickrussell at 2:10 PM on March 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
What might you think? Would you take her view of your reality seriously, or would you take it as a statement of something not being settled within her? Meaning, if you read a screed from her about your life, would it motivate you to action in your own life? Doubtful. Maybe you'd think about it a bit, and have a look around.
Most likely is that you would think she's not capable of dealing with her own problems and therefore attacking you because it's easier to be obsessed with your problems than to fix her own.
I wonder if that's happening here – if you're avoiding something within your own life by focusing very deeply on your parents' life.
posted by nickrussell at 2:10 PM on March 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
No matter what your mother shares with you, the only two people who know what's going on inside a marriage are the two people in the marriage. You are not part of that intimate - in all senses of the word - relationship, nor should you be.
Do not send that letter. Think about why you even imagine you should, and what it says about your own life.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 2:17 PM on March 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Do not send that letter. Think about why you even imagine you should, and what it says about your own life.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 2:17 PM on March 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Adding to all the others who say do not send this letter. How she sees this relationship may differ greatly from how you see it. Your mother could cut you off rather than your father if you send it. It might be a matter of her own survival, at least econominally. There may be little she could do, even if she wanted to leave him. If she has not worked in years or does not have a job that could support herself, and does not have the guts for a nasty divorce at this stage of her life, her best effort may be to do just what she is doing, try to see the situation as bearable.
posted by mermayd at 2:24 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by mermayd at 2:24 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
You should never send a letter like this one. Shred it.
What you should do is write a few more letters like this one. Every day a new one. And shred them, too.
This might help you to work through your fear of your parents getting old (it's a universal kind of fear); it might also help you to avoid projecting when it comes to topics such as happiness and goals in life. Your life is in your hands, theirs is in theirs. Don't mix that up.
You could write to your mom and say something like "write more songs--I like your songs," but please do respect, and help her preserve, what you call her "fragile happiness."
posted by Namlit at 2:27 PM on March 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
What you should do is write a few more letters like this one. Every day a new one. And shred them, too.
This might help you to work through your fear of your parents getting old (it's a universal kind of fear); it might also help you to avoid projecting when it comes to topics such as happiness and goals in life. Your life is in your hands, theirs is in theirs. Don't mix that up.
You could write to your mom and say something like "write more songs--I like your songs," but please do respect, and help her preserve, what you call her "fragile happiness."
posted by Namlit at 2:27 PM on March 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
One more to say "don't send" - though my reasoning may be slightly different from others'.
I find your truth/perception to be completely plausible, and probably right on. I don't have an opinion on whether you need therapy, any more than any of us does (which is "usually a lot").
But in my experience, a person who has devoted decades of an adult life to a situation which others would find awful has built up an entire structure of belief around it and will not change that. This is not to say (as some others have) that your mother knows good things about her relationship that you do not. It is entirely possible that she is stuck in a very bad thing. My point is that you are not going to convince her to change, by telling her how bad her situation is. You might help her want to change, by showing her that you are living a wonderful life. But not by telling her bad things about her past and present.
posted by sheldman at 2:55 PM on March 19, 2016 [12 favorites]
I find your truth/perception to be completely plausible, and probably right on. I don't have an opinion on whether you need therapy, any more than any of us does (which is "usually a lot").
But in my experience, a person who has devoted decades of an adult life to a situation which others would find awful has built up an entire structure of belief around it and will not change that. This is not to say (as some others have) that your mother knows good things about her relationship that you do not. It is entirely possible that she is stuck in a very bad thing. My point is that you are not going to convince her to change, by telling her how bad her situation is. You might help her want to change, by showing her that you are living a wonderful life. But not by telling her bad things about her past and present.
posted by sheldman at 2:55 PM on March 19, 2016 [12 favorites]
Why do you imagine sending a big dramatic bombshell letter, rather than gradually making your point in the course of one or many conversations? Take it slowly and your mom has the chance to let you know how much she's ready to hear -- and you might learn that your take is not as unassailable as it seems to you.
An email that says, you are a hapless victim of your workaholic husband -- who knows what impact that will have? The worries in this thread are serious ones. It is likely both safer and more effective (though less cathartic) to make much smaller interventions. Tell your mom how she seemed to come alive when your dad went on a trip, if you like -- this is better as a conversational observation than a bullet point in an indictment.
posted by grobstein at 3:03 PM on March 19, 2016 [11 favorites]
An email that says, you are a hapless victim of your workaholic husband -- who knows what impact that will have? The worries in this thread are serious ones. It is likely both safer and more effective (though less cathartic) to make much smaller interventions. Tell your mom how she seemed to come alive when your dad went on a trip, if you like -- this is better as a conversational observation than a bullet point in an indictment.
posted by grobstein at 3:03 PM on March 19, 2016 [11 favorites]
What is the goal of sending it besides to awaken your mother to the opinion that you do not think her marriage is what she does and the happy times are not coming? I am not clear on what that goal is, but whatever it is, I doubt sending that letter is the best way to achieve it.
We all see the world through our own lens'. Your mother has hers and you yours. At 65, it can be really scary to think you suddenly, for the first time in your life, are on your own, That might be more fearful than relief. It appears your lens is colored by issues with your father, your mother's husband. I don't know what those issues are, but it might help your mother or your relationship with her if you work through those first.
I would not send the letter, but only you can decide what is right for you. But, that is the point; only your mother can decide for herself and only she will control how she reacts to the letter.
posted by AugustWest at 3:19 PM on March 19, 2016
We all see the world through our own lens'. Your mother has hers and you yours. At 65, it can be really scary to think you suddenly, for the first time in your life, are on your own, That might be more fearful than relief. It appears your lens is colored by issues with your father, your mother's husband. I don't know what those issues are, but it might help your mother or your relationship with her if you work through those first.
I would not send the letter, but only you can decide what is right for you. But, that is the point; only your mother can decide for herself and only she will control how she reacts to the letter.
posted by AugustWest at 3:19 PM on March 19, 2016
Every so often these kinds of posts spring up and the thing that unites them all is that the want to communicate X is more about the poster themselves than the person they want to communicate to. You want to write this letter for yourself - partially for your mother, but it's mostly for your own benefit. Now I don't mean this in a "you are selfish and self-serving" kind of way, but on a subconscious level, I think this is something that will make you feel good but actually has little to no positive benefit for the other person, and quite possibly some negative consequences for both of you. Really, truly ask yourself, who you want to do this for. Just because you're involved in something (your mother's difficult marriage), it doesn't mean it's really about you at all.
posted by Aranquis at 3:38 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Aranquis at 3:38 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
You wrote the letter, and that's great. Now you have a narrative and an understanding of everything that your mother needs to have fixed. I'm very much on the side that sees your perspective on the situation as one that reads as very plausible.
But don't send the letter. Shred it. And do whatever you can to support your mum in becoming herself again. Note that the only way you can ever hope to deal with problems of this enormity is strategically. You're trying to demolish a tower block of coping mechanisms that's been built up on top of your mother's personality over many years, and demolition is a highly skilled task. Even if you have lots of dynamite, you have to put it in the key structural places, and do lots of prep work before you detonate. But often it's most appropriate to take it down bit by bit.
posted by ambrosen at 4:12 PM on March 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
But don't send the letter. Shred it. And do whatever you can to support your mum in becoming herself again. Note that the only way you can ever hope to deal with problems of this enormity is strategically. You're trying to demolish a tower block of coping mechanisms that's been built up on top of your mother's personality over many years, and demolition is a highly skilled task. Even if you have lots of dynamite, you have to put it in the key structural places, and do lots of prep work before you detonate. But often it's most appropriate to take it down bit by bit.
posted by ambrosen at 4:12 PM on March 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wanting for a future that may never happen (the sunshiny retirement plans) isn't the worst thing. There's a lot of enjoyment and happiness that can come from the planning and exploring of ideas like this. It's much healthier than having nothing to look forward to and it isn't a tragedy if it doesn't come to pass.
posted by kitten magic at 4:15 PM on March 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kitten magic at 4:15 PM on March 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
The things you want to tell her? She knows.
We construct worlds for ourselves, and until/unless she is ready to acknowledge that her world is not the one she says she believes it is, there is nothing good that can come of this. I know this from experience.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 4:32 PM on March 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
We construct worlds for ourselves, and until/unless she is ready to acknowledge that her world is not the one she says she believes it is, there is nothing good that can come of this. I know this from experience.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 4:32 PM on March 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
One quote I love which is I think from Anne Lamott is that you don't have to strike with the sword of truth, you can point with it.
I love the idea of encouraging her about her songs, gently observing along the way. You could also ask -- genuinely -- how she thinks it would be if your dad doesn't retire.
My mum is pretty controlling and has NPD and as my dad approached retirement I worried what he would do without work in his life. I asked him on a car ride once and he said, quite genuinely, that he intended to be with my mum and do what she wanted to do. This is my idea of a horror movie. But he did retire, that is what he does, and it works for them.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:46 PM on March 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
I love the idea of encouraging her about her songs, gently observing along the way. You could also ask -- genuinely -- how she thinks it would be if your dad doesn't retire.
My mum is pretty controlling and has NPD and as my dad approached retirement I worried what he would do without work in his life. I asked him on a car ride once and he said, quite genuinely, that he intended to be with my mum and do what she wanted to do. This is my idea of a horror movie. But he did retire, that is what he does, and it works for them.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:46 PM on March 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
Do listen to the advice to not send the letter; but also consider writing more letters (which you subsequently shred, or at least don't send) as a method for sorting through your own feelings on the matter. The responses to your post have been a consensus of "do not send the letter" for a good reason.
As a suggestion for addressing this another way? If you live near your mother, and if it would not become a burden on you, encourage and invite her to visit your home as a place where she can spend time working on projects that interest her. My younger sister and mother are both still living with my father. Although he may not be quite as extreme as what you describe of your own father in this post, at times he is a very difficult man with whom to share a home. My mother and sister both seem to get a lot of joy out of knowing they can come to my place and work on their own creative pursuits, in peace; or just relax; even vent. In turn, it's also had a positive impact on how they respond to and interact with my father. YMMV, as not everyone is able (physically, emotionally) to offer this kind of space to their loved ones. But if you are able to do so, it is an option worth considering.
posted by nightrecordings at 5:50 PM on March 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
As a suggestion for addressing this another way? If you live near your mother, and if it would not become a burden on you, encourage and invite her to visit your home as a place where she can spend time working on projects that interest her. My younger sister and mother are both still living with my father. Although he may not be quite as extreme as what you describe of your own father in this post, at times he is a very difficult man with whom to share a home. My mother and sister both seem to get a lot of joy out of knowing they can come to my place and work on their own creative pursuits, in peace; or just relax; even vent. In turn, it's also had a positive impact on how they respond to and interact with my father. YMMV, as not everyone is able (physically, emotionally) to offer this kind of space to their loved ones. But if you are able to do so, it is an option worth considering.
posted by nightrecordings at 5:50 PM on March 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm definitely on the side of "don't send," but let's say you do send it, and the lightbulb goes off. What is she going to do, practically speaking? Does she have the resources for a good divorce lawyer? Are you going to pay for it? Does she have a job, or some monthly income that would keep her current standard of living? (Even if she's awarded alimony by the court, it may not start immediately.) Is she attached to the house she lives in? The town she lives in, if she can no longer afford to live there? Does she have a strong network of friends? Does she have a therapist? Is she in danger from your father if she leaves?
Divorce is usually a horrible experience, financially and emotionally, even if you want it. It's a decision you have to come to on your own because it's so hard to go through.
posted by desjardins at 5:54 PM on March 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Divorce is usually a horrible experience, financially and emotionally, even if you want it. It's a decision you have to come to on your own because it's so hard to go through.
posted by desjardins at 5:54 PM on March 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also, at 65 it's pretty unlikely she'll ever find companionship again, so this may be a devil's bargain she's struck.
posted by desjardins at 5:56 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 5:56 PM on March 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Errr.. Why are you writing this letter to your mom instead of unloading on your dad? If you think dad is the jerk why are you disciplining your mom? In a way, you are making her do the hard work of deconstructing her fragile happiness for your perceived truth of the marriage instead, of making dad realize he needs to be kinder to your mom.
Count me in the don't send camp but for the reason of the target being misdirected.
posted by jadepearl at 6:06 PM on March 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
Count me in the don't send camp but for the reason of the target being misdirected.
posted by jadepearl at 6:06 PM on March 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
She's not going to listen to you or see reason if she doesn't want to see reason. Some people like being blind and closing their eyes so tight so they can BELIEVE there's still hope. She sounds like that. Probably the only thing you'll do is piss her off. It certainly won't make her feel better to point out her age and how many years she's put up with this.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:10 PM on March 19, 2016
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:10 PM on March 19, 2016
Can you and she plan a vacation together? It could help her experience clarity for herself, and the experience of her planning something and feeling it becoming a better reality could start to empower her to take other actions. I wouldn't necessarily lean hard on her to "realize" that her life could be better; rather have her live different experiences and let her choose her own path.
posted by amtho at 7:04 PM on March 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by amtho at 7:04 PM on March 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
If every semi-active MeFite on AskMe stops by to respond NOPE, that would still not be enough nope here.
I'm sorry you're hurting for your mom, but it's her life and this would be textbook overstepping bounds.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:20 PM on March 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm sorry you're hurting for your mom, but it's her life and this would be textbook overstepping bounds.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:20 PM on March 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
What does your letter to your dad say?
posted by headnsouth at 7:23 PM on March 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 7:23 PM on March 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
Your mom tells you she's happy, but that doesn't mean she believes it herself. Don't send the letter to her.
What would you say to your dad? Not that you should write to him either, but reframe it for yourself.
posted by RainyJay at 8:46 PM on March 19, 2016
What would you say to your dad? Not that you should write to him either, but reframe it for yourself.
posted by RainyJay at 8:46 PM on March 19, 2016
I have written a letter to my mother in which I try to show her that her marriage to my father is not what it claims to be, and that the promised happy times that are always just around the corner are probably never going to come. Should I send it?
What does "...what it claims to be" mean? Who does that claiming, in actuality?
Right now he is 65 years old and working 7 days a week. He is obsessed with a major career achievement that he feels will win him immortality but which is essentially a grand delusion. He's beginning to sound like a crank and is humiliating himself but only perceives others oppressing him.
Speaking of delusion, this itself sounds somewhat outlandishly tendentious (I'm assuming you mean immortality in the sense of posterity or something else sort of metaphorical); do you think he has some kind of mental illness? I don't understand.
He seems incapable of anything but work. I believe he is totally addicted to it. My mother says he is becoming difficult to live with because he is so obsessed. I am troubled, because he seems to be getting worse.
This is not necessarily pathological, but again you make it sound distinctly so.
Despite this she is holding onto an idea that in five years he is going to quit and they are going to retire together somewhere sunny and warm and be happy together. She has been holding onto this idea for a long time. (the goalposts have already moved once - he was supposed to retire at 65.) I don't think it is ever going to happen and it is breaking my heart to watch.
Do you realize that you're asking if you should try to save your mom, romantically, from your dad? I mean, sometimes that is a thing that could need to happen, e.g. if abuse is involved, but if I were you I'd think long and hard about whether there's something weird going on inside myself making me want to 'save' one of my parents from the other one.
She tells me she's happy but I don't buy it...If I rock the boat; if I refuse to play along with the myth
You seem to keep suggesting that both of your parents are delusional. There are differences between having a codependent relationship, having an extreme emotional division of labor, being out-and-out delusional, and other patterns; relationships can look very different from the inside vs the outside, and not necessarily because anyone inside them is delusional. I think you should figure out why everyone else has to be delusional in order for you to explain their relationship to yourself.
What should I do? Send it and shatter the status quo but reach towards the truth and towards healing, or hold my tongue and preserve the stability of her life?
Has it never occurred to you to just ask her why she stays with your father if he makes her so miserable and is such an awful person? Why don't you ask her first and then decide whether or not you should confront her with this dramatic, iconoclastic Truth that you think she cannot possibly have access to, but you can?
posted by clockzero at 9:57 PM on March 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
What does "...what it claims to be" mean? Who does that claiming, in actuality?
Right now he is 65 years old and working 7 days a week. He is obsessed with a major career achievement that he feels will win him immortality but which is essentially a grand delusion. He's beginning to sound like a crank and is humiliating himself but only perceives others oppressing him.
Speaking of delusion, this itself sounds somewhat outlandishly tendentious (I'm assuming you mean immortality in the sense of posterity or something else sort of metaphorical); do you think he has some kind of mental illness? I don't understand.
He seems incapable of anything but work. I believe he is totally addicted to it. My mother says he is becoming difficult to live with because he is so obsessed. I am troubled, because he seems to be getting worse.
This is not necessarily pathological, but again you make it sound distinctly so.
Despite this she is holding onto an idea that in five years he is going to quit and they are going to retire together somewhere sunny and warm and be happy together. She has been holding onto this idea for a long time. (the goalposts have already moved once - he was supposed to retire at 65.) I don't think it is ever going to happen and it is breaking my heart to watch.
Do you realize that you're asking if you should try to save your mom, romantically, from your dad? I mean, sometimes that is a thing that could need to happen, e.g. if abuse is involved, but if I were you I'd think long and hard about whether there's something weird going on inside myself making me want to 'save' one of my parents from the other one.
She tells me she's happy but I don't buy it...If I rock the boat; if I refuse to play along with the myth
You seem to keep suggesting that both of your parents are delusional. There are differences between having a codependent relationship, having an extreme emotional division of labor, being out-and-out delusional, and other patterns; relationships can look very different from the inside vs the outside, and not necessarily because anyone inside them is delusional. I think you should figure out why everyone else has to be delusional in order for you to explain their relationship to yourself.
What should I do? Send it and shatter the status quo but reach towards the truth and towards healing, or hold my tongue and preserve the stability of her life?
Has it never occurred to you to just ask her why she stays with your father if he makes her so miserable and is such an awful person? Why don't you ask her first and then decide whether or not you should confront her with this dramatic, iconoclastic Truth that you think she cannot possibly have access to, but you can?
posted by clockzero at 9:57 PM on March 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
It is hugely wishful thinking that this letter will shake up the status quo. My guess is that it will upset the relationship between you, then your mother will pretend it never happened, except that she will go further out of her way to avoid telling you anything negative, depriving her of one more source of support.
Even if it did somehow break through the various denial structures to inspire your mom to quit her marriage - breaking up a 40-year marriage isn't trivial, logistically or emotionally. Even when one person is a monster, such a marriage gives something rewarding to both of them, something you won't see or recognise until you see your mother alone, permanently. Whatever it is, she will mourn it, even if it isn't anything healthy. Are you ready to see her mourn?
posted by gingerest at 10:23 PM on March 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Even if it did somehow break through the various denial structures to inspire your mom to quit her marriage - breaking up a 40-year marriage isn't trivial, logistically or emotionally. Even when one person is a monster, such a marriage gives something rewarding to both of them, something you won't see or recognise until you see your mother alone, permanently. Whatever it is, she will mourn it, even if it isn't anything healthy. Are you ready to see her mourn?
posted by gingerest at 10:23 PM on March 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Here's another reason to encourage and support your mom in finding outlets for herself. If you dad is like the many retirement-age men at my work, one of three things might happen:
1. He won't ever really retire. He'll retire on paper at some point, but then he'll be back as a consultant or something. Seriously, I work with people who supposedly retired 10 years ago and just can't let go. (And sorry to be morbid, but I've also known several folks who've passed away before retirement.)
2. He will retire but then he won't have anything to do because he never developed any interests outside work and he will drive your mother crazy at home.
3. He will retire and then develop an entirely new obsession - cars, model trains, gardening. This will consume all of his time. Bonus, if it's a seasonal obsession then see #2 for what happens during the off-season.
So yes I think it's unlikely that he will retire to spend time with his wife, since that's just not their dynamic. However, as others have said, there may be legitimate reasons for them to stay together at this point. Some companionship is probably better than none, even if you just tolerate each other. And financially it might be disastrous to deal with a divorce now, with no more working years to make up the attorney's fees they would both have to spend.
All that said, I think the best thing you can do is support your mom in finding outlets for her creativity and that its okay for her to spend time on those things. Go with her to a meetup or a class if you can. Plus, she will meet people, and maybe make some new friends. This would be worthwhile if she stayed with your dad or left him.
posted by cabingirl at 3:55 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
1. He won't ever really retire. He'll retire on paper at some point, but then he'll be back as a consultant or something. Seriously, I work with people who supposedly retired 10 years ago and just can't let go. (And sorry to be morbid, but I've also known several folks who've passed away before retirement.)
2. He will retire but then he won't have anything to do because he never developed any interests outside work and he will drive your mother crazy at home.
3. He will retire and then develop an entirely new obsession - cars, model trains, gardening. This will consume all of his time. Bonus, if it's a seasonal obsession then see #2 for what happens during the off-season.
So yes I think it's unlikely that he will retire to spend time with his wife, since that's just not their dynamic. However, as others have said, there may be legitimate reasons for them to stay together at this point. Some companionship is probably better than none, even if you just tolerate each other. And financially it might be disastrous to deal with a divorce now, with no more working years to make up the attorney's fees they would both have to spend.
All that said, I think the best thing you can do is support your mom in finding outlets for her creativity and that its okay for her to spend time on those things. Go with her to a meetup or a class if you can. Plus, she will meet people, and maybe make some new friends. This would be worthwhile if she stayed with your dad or left him.
posted by cabingirl at 3:55 AM on March 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mod note: From the OP:
Thank you for all of the advice. I will not be sending the letter. This has given me a lot of clarity.posted by taz (staff) at 4:55 AM on March 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Somehow I got caught in dichotomous thinking and believed my only choices were to do nothing or to blow it all up. That’s been a pattern for me. I would like to thank the commenters who validated my read on the situation and offered me some ideas for a way forward.
For those who wondered, yes, I think my father is pretty seriously mentally ill, and I actually fear for his and for my mother’s physical safety should he ever suffer a breakdown, which I am beginning to believe is inevitable given current trends. I feel helpless watching what looks like a slow-motion car wreck. But I suppose that feeling of helplessness is mine to deal with and I need to think of what would best serve everyone in this situation.
I've considered writing to my father as well. Perhaps I will write some letters to him and not send them. I have never openly stood up to him for the way he has treated me and continues to treat me and my family members. There is a reason for this - i am terrified of the violent explosion this is likely to provoke. I'm still honestly not sure what to do. All actions feel unsafe but the status quo is deteriorating - I feel tugging at the seams.
showbiz_liz - inviting her to spend a week away feels like a good idea. I'd been considering something like this. I honestly have doubts as to whether she would accept. I fear it would provoke a crisis in their marriage if she took time for herself like this; he will take it as a sign she wants to leave him and flip out. However, there is probably something we can manage and it feels like a good idea to try.
This is tough as your parents' relationship sounds like mine, including the age and angel/demon thing except she actually is angel-like and he actually is a prick so perhaps your perspective is right. I have tried to find good qualities in the old man - like sometimes he can do silly voices, so that's nice isn't it? That's a redeeming quality right there. I have no problem with the demonizing, is what i'm saying. Some people are bastards. I only worry for your level of emotional involvement, especially in your mother's narrative. I'm starting to understand that in the same way a parent let's their children 'go out into the wild', a child does the same thing with his/her parents. I am very close to my mum, though and I know it's not easy. She nurtures him, I understand, but your existence on this planet is not to nurture her to make up for her loss of any personal life. You can encourage therapy. You can present possibilities for 'eye opening' such as a support group where women openly talk about their experiences. You can't make her do them. I think it's worth encouraging, however.
My first thought was 'don't send it'. I wonder what you could possibly write in that letter that she is not aware of herself. She is likely unhappy but it's her choice about whether or not she wants to move on (and it's tough for me to say that because I know that some people - particularly who come from abusive/restrictive backgrounds - are not fully aware of the choices they have in life). Is there a reason you'd send a letter rather than talk to her? I talk to my mum all the time and tell her my dad is a twat but she is aware of it. I'd never send a letter. It's too formal and strange. I'd speak to her if I were you. It sounds bad but because my parents are in their 70s, I have sort of given up on the idea that my mum might have a new, modern woman sort of lifestyle. She's from a different generation (and country) where you stay with your husband for life. I think she'd probably rather have bad company than none. Perhaps your mother would rather be a nurturer than have nothing. Yes, you can try to help her understand that it's not 'him vs nothing' but this is a hard sell to a different generation.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 5:42 AM on March 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
My first thought was 'don't send it'. I wonder what you could possibly write in that letter that she is not aware of herself. She is likely unhappy but it's her choice about whether or not she wants to move on (and it's tough for me to say that because I know that some people - particularly who come from abusive/restrictive backgrounds - are not fully aware of the choices they have in life). Is there a reason you'd send a letter rather than talk to her? I talk to my mum all the time and tell her my dad is a twat but she is aware of it. I'd never send a letter. It's too formal and strange. I'd speak to her if I were you. It sounds bad but because my parents are in their 70s, I have sort of given up on the idea that my mum might have a new, modern woman sort of lifestyle. She's from a different generation (and country) where you stay with your husband for life. I think she'd probably rather have bad company than none. Perhaps your mother would rather be a nurturer than have nothing. Yes, you can try to help her understand that it's not 'him vs nothing' but this is a hard sell to a different generation.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 5:42 AM on March 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
showbiz_liz - inviting her to spend a week away feels like a good idea. I'd been considering something like this. I honestly have doubts as to whether she would accept. I fear it would provoke a crisis in their marriage if she took time for herself like this; he will take it as a sign she wants to leave him and flip out.
Isn't that what you were hoping to accomplish with the letter anyway?
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:01 AM on March 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Isn't that what you were hoping to accomplish with the letter anyway?
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:01 AM on March 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
I would suggest also doing boundary work in therapy, including role playing. Learning boundaries and what you can control versus what you can't can be incredibly hard.
posted by RogueTech at 8:50 AM on March 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by RogueTech at 8:50 AM on March 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I don't hear anything in what you have written about your father that explains your deep hatred of him. It seems like you have an angel/devil thing going on there, that is maybe something to unpack, in therapy.
Your mother has to discover and narrate her own life. You cannot do it for her or for anyone. Nope out, there is only sadness. Shred the letter.
posted by Dashy at 1:12 PM on March 19, 2016 [37 favorites]