Buying a townhouse in Sydney to raise a family?
March 13, 2016 12:13 AM Subscribe
My partner and I are currently looking to buy a place in Sydney, and our current plan is to buy a three bedroom townhouse in which to raise two kids. Is this a good plan?
Based on where we work and the time constraints of our jobs, we can't realistically afford a free standing house within a practical commuting distance. We're loathe to try to raise a 6 year old and a 3 year old in an apartment if we can avoid it. Townhouses and semi-detached houses seem like a good tradeoff: you get a little bit more floorspace for your 3 bedroom property, and a little bit of outside space for the kids.
Our preference is to focus on townhouses, partly because they seem more affordable, and partly because we can buy something newer. Having gone through the arduous process of renovating an old house once before, we're not keen on doing it again. Our new jobs place stronger demands on our time and we just don't have it in us to take on major renovation projects.
The big unknowns to us are:
- How difficult is it to handle the little ones in a townhouse? At the moment we're in a row house of similar size with similar external space and it's mostly fine, but we've only been doing it a few months and would appreciate comments from anyone who has done it for longer.
- What happens in a townhouse when the kids get older? If we ended up staying for 10 years, how difficult is it to share a townhouse with a 16 year old and a 13 year old? (Relative to 6 and 3, that is!)
- Strata management... how does it work? We have never had to deal with strata before. There is a not insignificant part of me that desperately wants to fork out a lot more money for a semi just so that we can have a Torrens titled property rather than Strata title. People tell horror stories about Strata sometimes, but how bad is it normally?
- Land appreciates, buildings depreciate? Part of the appeal of a semi rather than a townhouse is the fact that land is a larger proportion of the value (yes?) and as such the capital gains on a semi will likely be more substantial than for an equivalently priced townhouse. On the one hand I don't think I should care that much if it's a place we want to live in happily for several years; on the other I wonder if I should care if the future value of the semi vs townhouse makes a difference when trying to move later. Honestly, I'm out of my depth on that one, and I'm really very tempted to ignore this.
There are a bunch of other issues to sort out, of course (e.g., where to buy?) but for the moment our big questions are about the fundamental viability of the "raise kids in a townhouse" strategy.
Any advice would be appreciated!
Based on where we work and the time constraints of our jobs, we can't realistically afford a free standing house within a practical commuting distance. We're loathe to try to raise a 6 year old and a 3 year old in an apartment if we can avoid it. Townhouses and semi-detached houses seem like a good tradeoff: you get a little bit more floorspace for your 3 bedroom property, and a little bit of outside space for the kids.
Our preference is to focus on townhouses, partly because they seem more affordable, and partly because we can buy something newer. Having gone through the arduous process of renovating an old house once before, we're not keen on doing it again. Our new jobs place stronger demands on our time and we just don't have it in us to take on major renovation projects.
The big unknowns to us are:
- How difficult is it to handle the little ones in a townhouse? At the moment we're in a row house of similar size with similar external space and it's mostly fine, but we've only been doing it a few months and would appreciate comments from anyone who has done it for longer.
- What happens in a townhouse when the kids get older? If we ended up staying for 10 years, how difficult is it to share a townhouse with a 16 year old and a 13 year old? (Relative to 6 and 3, that is!)
- Strata management... how does it work? We have never had to deal with strata before. There is a not insignificant part of me that desperately wants to fork out a lot more money for a semi just so that we can have a Torrens titled property rather than Strata title. People tell horror stories about Strata sometimes, but how bad is it normally?
- Land appreciates, buildings depreciate? Part of the appeal of a semi rather than a townhouse is the fact that land is a larger proportion of the value (yes?) and as such the capital gains on a semi will likely be more substantial than for an equivalently priced townhouse. On the one hand I don't think I should care that much if it's a place we want to live in happily for several years; on the other I wonder if I should care if the future value of the semi vs townhouse makes a difference when trying to move later. Honestly, I'm out of my depth on that one, and I'm really very tempted to ignore this.
There are a bunch of other issues to sort out, of course (e.g., where to buy?) but for the moment our big questions are about the fundamental viability of the "raise kids in a townhouse" strategy.
Any advice would be appreciated!
Also if it's semi vs strata you still have to interact with the neighbours about fences or wall problems but you can't force them to keep up their property (at least, not easily). Strata at least you won't be living next door to a house with a rotten roof and water leaking down their side of the common wall.
posted by kitten magic at 12:52 AM on March 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kitten magic at 12:52 AM on March 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Bear in my mind re strata, that town houses are in generally small lots. Strata fees are therefore lonely to be much lower, committees much smaller, things needing management, much less.
You can get a very good sense of a building and strata history by going to the strata management company, paying thirty bucks, and reading through. All the mounties will be there, well siren your time for a place you are interested in. When we bought our apartment, we dodged some real bullets doing this.
Key things :do they have enough money in the sinking fund, are people paying on time, are there any major maintenance or structural issues upcoming or being put off.
Best of luck
posted by smoke at 3:30 AM on March 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
You can get a very good sense of a building and strata history by going to the strata management company, paying thirty bucks, and reading through. All the mounties will be there, well siren your time for a place you are interested in. When we bought our apartment, we dodged some real bullets doing this.
Key things :do they have enough money in the sinking fund, are people paying on time, are there any major maintenance or structural issues upcoming or being put off.
Best of luck
posted by smoke at 3:30 AM on March 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh God, my phone butchered that, and I had to go to the baby!
Lonely =likely
Mounties =minutes
Siren = worth
posted by smoke at 4:14 AM on March 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lonely =likely
Mounties =minutes
Siren = worth
posted by smoke at 4:14 AM on March 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I live in an apartment in a block of 30 in Melbourne, so similar in terms of strata etc, but probably a little smaller than townhouses you are looking at (though probably not by much).
This place is swarming with kids between 0 and 16, and I think some older. I know a lot of the parents and it is totally doable, so much so that a number of renting families have circulated between apartments as their leases have expired so they can keep living here.
Owners Corporations do get nutty sometimes, but as an owner you have access to the best antidote to that - get involved. They aren't some external mystical organisation. I agree very strongly with Smoke, if you are seriously looking at buying somewhere you are basically negligent if you don't go and read the meeting minutes. The agent is under no obligation to tell you of major structural problems if they are discussed in the OC minutes, it's up to you to read them.
posted by deadwax at 9:16 PM on March 13, 2016
This place is swarming with kids between 0 and 16, and I think some older. I know a lot of the parents and it is totally doable, so much so that a number of renting families have circulated between apartments as their leases have expired so they can keep living here.
Owners Corporations do get nutty sometimes, but as an owner you have access to the best antidote to that - get involved. They aren't some external mystical organisation. I agree very strongly with Smoke, if you are seriously looking at buying somewhere you are basically negligent if you don't go and read the meeting minutes. The agent is under no obligation to tell you of major structural problems if they are discussed in the OC minutes, it's up to you to read them.
posted by deadwax at 9:16 PM on March 13, 2016
Another thing. New buildings, especially multi storey apartments can have some shocking problems and those minutes are particularly interesting to read (especially since you know you won't be buying!). There are some serious horror stories of owners corporations spending tens of thousands on litigation in the hope of getting hundreds of thousands in defects fixed. I got reports on two blocks I ended up running from and any time I pass those buildings I feel deep sympathy for the owners.
So at the house hunting stage I'd look for older, say 20 years or more, rather than brand new. Anything wrong with the building will be obvious by then. Townhouses are less complicated than apartments though so less to worry about.
posted by kitten magic at 12:58 AM on March 14, 2016
So at the house hunting stage I'd look for older, say 20 years or more, rather than brand new. Anything wrong with the building will be obvious by then. Townhouses are less complicated than apartments though so less to worry about.
posted by kitten magic at 12:58 AM on March 14, 2016
Response by poster: Thank you all. Those comments are very helpful and line up nicely with our own assessment. I think I've been lending too much weight to some of the "no no you have to solve this problem the way I did a long time ago in a land far away or else you're doing it wrong" comments I've gotten in other places. I deeply appreciate all the comments (really, thanks!), but I'm afraid nothing is ever going to top all the mounties will be there, well siren your time for best answer.
posted by langtonsant at 5:48 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by langtonsant at 5:48 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
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2. You're planning on them having their own rooms it sounds so no difference to a regular house.
3. Strata issues depend on who is on the committees. I know a lot of people who don't get involved and leave it to the retirees who've been on the committee forever and then they bitch and moan because they don't know what's involved and feel it's 'us vs them'. I got involved and going to the meetings and hearing the very reasonable discussions gives a whole different perspective. So my recommendation is to get involved. Also you can tell how active the committee is by looking at the state of common areas. Plus you get strata reports and they make interesting reading.
4. It's Sydney. The most hideous buildings and locations have appreciated beyond all reason. If you're buying inner ish Sydney you won't have any problems with strata vs torrents title so far as appreciation goes.
Good luck! House buying in Sydney is nuts but from what I've read, slightly less nuts than the previous years. Ignore people who insist kids need a large yard. They just mean more maintenance which means less time for you to spend time at the park with the kids for those times that they want more space. It might be weird for you if you grew up with a huge garden but we all enjoyed the parks and never felt squished.
posted by kitten magic at 12:48 AM on March 13, 2016