Have placenta, will travel.
December 19, 2005 5:44 PM Subscribe
Keeping frozen stuff frozen, while moving halfway across the country.
I swear on the lives of my children, this is for a friend :)
Said friend is getting ready to move from Northern California to Wisconsin. She'd like to bring along some pumped, frozen breastmilk, and a placenta, also frozen.
What is the best way to pack, move, ship, whatever these items and maintain their frozen integrity?
Her family will be traveling for about two days, stopping to visit relatives for a few days, then driving for another two days.
I swear on the lives of my children, this is for a friend :)
Said friend is getting ready to move from Northern California to Wisconsin. She'd like to bring along some pumped, frozen breastmilk, and a placenta, also frozen.
What is the best way to pack, move, ship, whatever these items and maintain their frozen integrity?
Her family will be traveling for about two days, stopping to visit relatives for a few days, then driving for another two days.
At this time of year, if you can pack things into the trunk or a trailer, you should have no problem keeping things frozen in a coller with plenty of ice that you change as needed, but honestly, I'd pack in a foam cooler with dry ice and regular ice. The dry ice will keep the temperature way, way down and the regular ice will add thermal mass. The foam cooler doesn't seal terrifically which means that as the dry ice evaporates, it won't pop your cooler open. I've kept a pair of steaks frozen nicely in late summer heat from California to Black Rock, Nevada in a similar fashion.
If you want to ship, you can pack up to 5 pounds of dry ice in with what you want to ship for US air mail.
posted by plinth at 5:55 PM on December 19, 2005
If you want to ship, you can pack up to 5 pounds of dry ice in with what you want to ship for US air mail.
posted by plinth at 5:55 PM on December 19, 2005
Something I've done that seemed to work for food was pack it in ice in a styrofoam box in the trunck under some blankets, and twice a day (morning and night) buy more ice at whatever convenience store happened to be nearby to replace the melt.
Dry ice seems like a better material to use though, to keep something subzero (though I haven't tried it), so maybe replace "convenience store" with "supermarket".
posted by -harlequin- at 5:59 PM on December 19, 2005
Dry ice seems like a better material to use though, to keep something subzero (though I haven't tried it), so maybe replace "convenience store" with "supermarket".
posted by -harlequin- at 5:59 PM on December 19, 2005
Dry ice, overnight shipping in a styrofoam shipper. If you have trouble finding the shipper, order some frozen steaks or whatever, or just build one up from some broken up styrofoam coolers. Go for a 1 1/2 to 2 inch wall thickness. A small cooler with some extra styrofoam walls inside is also fine; pack it inside of a box. You will not want to seal it airtight as the dry ice will be evolving from solid to gas, which tremendously increases the volume. Seal it tight and it explodes. It is actually easier to deal with frozen stuff as the dry ice is really cold and will keep it cold for a day or two with no problem as long as it is insulated well. Dry ice is available at some stores, ice cream stores and specialty shops under "dry ice."
posted by caddis at 5:59 PM on December 19, 2005
posted by caddis at 5:59 PM on December 19, 2005
I'm sorry, I just have to ask: why would a person transport a placenta? I've never heard of this.
posted by gleuschk at 6:20 PM on December 19, 2005
posted by gleuschk at 6:20 PM on December 19, 2005
Some people like to use the placenta as fertilizer for a new tree.
posted by plinth at 6:25 PM on December 19, 2005
posted by plinth at 6:25 PM on December 19, 2005
I know the question is about how to transport the milk, but what about not transporting the milk? I mean, there groups everywhere dedicated to collecting breastmilk for orphan/sick babies. She could perhaps try to find a group that would take her frozen milk in California and provide her with the same amount of fresh breast milk in Wisconsin. This way she would be one hundred percent the milk would survive the trip.
posted by nkyad at 7:05 PM on December 19, 2005
posted by nkyad at 7:05 PM on December 19, 2005
Response by poster: If it were that easy, nkyad, I'm sure she'd be delighted to do that--but milk banks require pretty stringent testing of their donors, and I don't believe they'd accept milk that had been pumped prior to clearing someone for donation, even though they do process it upon collection.
A good idea though if it were feasible.
posted by padraigin at 7:33 PM on December 19, 2005
A good idea though if it were feasible.
posted by padraigin at 7:33 PM on December 19, 2005
You want to be careful driving around with dry ice in your car, in that it will be outgassing CO2 the whole time. I found a couple threads from Click and Clack that suggest that it could be a bad idea to store it for any length of time in your car.
posted by popechunk at 7:38 PM on December 19, 2005
posted by popechunk at 7:38 PM on December 19, 2005
Be aware that (regular old water) ice will not keep stuff frozen, it will keep it at 32 F. Milk's freezing point is below 32.
posted by neuron at 8:42 PM on December 19, 2005
posted by neuron at 8:42 PM on December 19, 2005
Be aware that (regular old water) ice will not keep stuff frozen, it will keep it at 32 F. Milk's freezing point is below 32.
Depends how cold the ice is. Ice can get colder than 32F and most ice made in your average freezer will be colder.
Don't they sell freezers that plug into car lighters?
posted by duck at 8:51 PM on December 19, 2005
Depends how cold the ice is. Ice can get colder than 32F and most ice made in your average freezer will be colder.
Don't they sell freezers that plug into car lighters?
posted by duck at 8:51 PM on December 19, 2005
Isopropyl (or methyl) alcohol will lower the temperature of stuff floating in melting water-ice.
Perhaps a crate of 500mL bottles of isopropyl alcohol and stopping in gas stations for bags of ice?
Also - it's pretty cold outside, during December - do they have one of those kinda-aerodynamic plastic box things that strap to the top of a car? I'd imagine that the temperature in those things would be close to the outside (below freezing) ambient.
posted by PurplePorpoise at 12:36 AM on December 20, 2005
Perhaps a crate of 500mL bottles of isopropyl alcohol and stopping in gas stations for bags of ice?
Also - it's pretty cold outside, during December - do they have one of those kinda-aerodynamic plastic box things that strap to the top of a car? I'd imagine that the temperature in those things would be close to the outside (below freezing) ambient.
posted by PurplePorpoise at 12:36 AM on December 20, 2005
Depends how cold the ice is. Ice can get colder than 32F and most ice made in your average freezer will be colder.
Ice keeps food no colder than 32 F. If it starts out colder it will first warm up to 32 then start melting. If it has started melting it is already 32. Ice works to keep food cold through its heat of transformation. It takes one calorie to raise the temperature of one gram of water one degree C. It takes 80 calories to melt it.
Dry ice is better because it is colder and because it doesn't leave behind a lake as it warms up.
posted by caddis at 3:03 AM on December 20, 2005
Ice keeps food no colder than 32 F. If it starts out colder it will first warm up to 32 then start melting. If it has started melting it is already 32. Ice works to keep food cold through its heat of transformation. It takes one calorie to raise the temperature of one gram of water one degree C. It takes 80 calories to melt it.
Dry ice is better because it is colder and because it doesn't leave behind a lake as it warms up.
posted by caddis at 3:03 AM on December 20, 2005
My mom drove a beef roast 1/2 way across country. Lots of blue frozen thingies, heavy duty cooler (the ones Omaha Steaks use are great) and added ice on day 2. It was rock solid when it arrived. And my Mom was still nutty. I mean, c'mon, we have grocery stores in Maine
The condition of the placenta may or may not be critical; but I'd be wary of using breast milk that was older than 1 month if stored at home. It's a real drag to toss it, but it might be wise, unless there's an urgent need.
posted by theora55 at 7:24 AM on December 20, 2005
The condition of the placenta may or may not be critical; but I'd be wary of using breast milk that was older than 1 month if stored at home. It's a real drag to toss it, but it might be wise, unless there's an urgent need.
posted by theora55 at 7:24 AM on December 20, 2005
Ice keeps food no colder than 32 F. If it starts out colder it will first warm up to 32 then start melting. If it has started melting it is already 32. Ice works to keep food cold through its heat of transformation.
Caddis is right, and there's an additional factor which contributes as well. While solid ice can be colder than 32°F, solid ice will only contact what you want to keep cold at a few limited points. As the ice melts, the liquid water--no colder than 32°F--will have a much greater contact area with whatever it is you're trying to keep cold. (Which is why salt+ice works for making ice cream: liquid salt water can exist well below 32°F, so a liquid below the freezing temperature of water is in contact with the canister.)
Isopropyl (or methyl) alcohol will lower the temperature of stuff floating in melting water-ice.
Just keep in mind that isopropyl and methyl alcohol are flammable--take appropriate precautions if you go this route. Personally, I'd go with the dry ice recommendations here.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:14 AM on December 20, 2005
Caddis is right, and there's an additional factor which contributes as well. While solid ice can be colder than 32°F, solid ice will only contact what you want to keep cold at a few limited points. As the ice melts, the liquid water--no colder than 32°F--will have a much greater contact area with whatever it is you're trying to keep cold. (Which is why salt+ice works for making ice cream: liquid salt water can exist well below 32°F, so a liquid below the freezing temperature of water is in contact with the canister.)
Isopropyl (or methyl) alcohol will lower the temperature of stuff floating in melting water-ice.
Just keep in mind that isopropyl and methyl alcohol are flammable--take appropriate precautions if you go this route. Personally, I'd go with the dry ice recommendations here.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:14 AM on December 20, 2005
Response by poster: but I'd be wary of using breast milk that was older than 1 month if stored at home. It's a real drag to toss it, but it might be wise, unless there's an urgent need.
I'm actually not sure how my friend is storing hers, but I do know that La Leche League advises that breastmilk can be stored for up to three months in a standard freezer, and up to six months in a deep freeze.
But that makes it all the more key that she maintain the temperature, of course.
posted by padraigin at 8:56 AM on December 20, 2005
I'm actually not sure how my friend is storing hers, but I do know that La Leche League advises that breastmilk can be stored for up to three months in a standard freezer, and up to six months in a deep freeze.
But that makes it all the more key that she maintain the temperature, of course.
posted by padraigin at 8:56 AM on December 20, 2005
Ditto on padraigin - we used a chest freezer for breast milk and after 6 months it was fine. Beware standard freezers - frost free freezers will cycle the temperature above and below freezing which can wreak havoc on breast milk.
posted by plinth at 9:53 AM on December 20, 2005
posted by plinth at 9:53 AM on December 20, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by sanko at 5:52 PM on December 19, 2005