Quebec Metro Screw Up
December 19, 2005 10:24 AM Subscribe
I have been charged 210$ for using a metro pass in Montreal that I am not supposed to be able to use. What's the best way to not have to pay this amount?
Essentially there are these weekly passes that are, as I was told at the pharmacy, for students. I am a valid student except in this instance it was for children 18 and below. The ticket amount is WAY too much and I can't pay it. Is there anyway I can escape?
The price of the weeklies weren't that far under the monthly one (the one actually for university students) so I thought there was no issue about, I seriously had no idea.
Essentially there are these weekly passes that are, as I was told at the pharmacy, for students. I am a valid student except in this instance it was for children 18 and below. The ticket amount is WAY too much and I can't pay it. Is there anyway I can escape?
The price of the weeklies weren't that far under the monthly one (the one actually for university students) so I thought there was no issue about, I seriously had no idea.
I've heard that you just don't pay it, and don't try anything like that again.
posted by jon_kill at 10:36 AM on December 19, 2005
posted by jon_kill at 10:36 AM on December 19, 2005
I'm a little confused about the exact situation (are you being charged for a product you did not receive or a product you received by mistake? your mistake or theirs?) but have you tried calling their customer service department to try and straighten things out?
posted by winston at 11:53 AM on December 19, 2005
posted by winston at 11:53 AM on December 19, 2005
My reading, being a bit familiar with the Montreal metro: He tried to get into the metro (subway) using a children's monthly pass but he's not under 18, got caught, and got a $210 ticket for it. He thought that since the prices between the children's pass and the college-student pass wasn't too big that they wouldn't mind him using it.
My advice: you weren't charged extra, you got a fine for breaking the law. The STCUM security folks aren't security folks, they're police officers, and you've got a ticket for breaking a city by-law. Either get a paralegal to get you out of it, or pay up. How you bought the pass doesn't matter at all.
posted by mendel at 12:06 PM on December 19, 2005
My advice: you weren't charged extra, you got a fine for breaking the law. The STCUM security folks aren't security folks, they're police officers, and you've got a ticket for breaking a city by-law. Either get a paralegal to get you out of it, or pay up. How you bought the pass doesn't matter at all.
posted by mendel at 12:06 PM on December 19, 2005
I'm having trouble parsing the description, as to whether you knew that you were misusing the pass, but I'll assume the charitable interpretation.
I was busted on the LA Metro for using a ticket from one line on another line, having been fooled by the word "System". I paid the fine up front -- and to emphasize very clearly, I don't think there's any way you're getting out of that -- and included a (wholly factual) sob story about being a new arrival in the area, who had bought a ticket in good faith, had misunderstood the word "system", and hoped that under such circumstances the harsh fine might be reduced somewhat. I was refunded in full, apparently by a sympathetic judge (in front of whom I never had to appear).
Anyway, that doesn't seem too much to hope for. Not having to pony up the money up front does.
posted by Aknaton at 12:42 PM on December 19, 2005
I was busted on the LA Metro for using a ticket from one line on another line, having been fooled by the word "System". I paid the fine up front -- and to emphasize very clearly, I don't think there's any way you're getting out of that -- and included a (wholly factual) sob story about being a new arrival in the area, who had bought a ticket in good faith, had misunderstood the word "system", and hoped that under such circumstances the harsh fine might be reduced somewhat. I was refunded in full, apparently by a sympathetic judge (in front of whom I never had to appear).
Anyway, that doesn't seem too much to hope for. Not having to pony up the money up front does.
posted by Aknaton at 12:42 PM on December 19, 2005
mendel: You can often get a traffic fine reduced significantly by pleading a case just like Napierzaza has, which is a pretty similar kind of deal.
posted by aubilenon at 12:43 PM on December 19, 2005
posted by aubilenon at 12:43 PM on December 19, 2005
Contest the ticket and they'll give you a court date. Show up throw yourself at the mercy of the court. There's a very good chance the judge will cut you a break if you have a good attitude and wear a suit. Worst case: you may have to work out some sort of monthly payment plan with the system. This can be done for some fines, not sure if they'll do it for $210.
posted by nixerman at 1:00 PM on December 19, 2005
posted by nixerman at 1:00 PM on December 19, 2005
You can't get a paralegal in Quebec, you can only fight tickets in 2 (or maybe 3) ways:
- By representing yourself
- By hiring a REAL lawyer (I believe the minimum charge is $500, whether you lose or not -- you won't get this back if you win)
- (maybe) By getting a friend to represent you UNPAID while you are in the courtroom.
The last option might be legal in Quebec because it is listed in the Criminal Code as an acceptable remedy (section 800, IIRC, "by agent" representation). But I bet you'd get the joy of fighting it as hard as Pointts had to in Ontario to claim your rights. I know when I helped a friend using that section of the code many judges were so ignorant of the law (funny that, isn't it?) they had to look it up for themselves before they would believe me...
Contest the ticket. Talk to the crown prior and explain your story. If they buy it hook line and sinker, they will help drop the charges. If not, you get to try your story with the judge. DO NOT LET ANYBODY BUT THE CROWN HEAR YOUR STORY FIRST IF THEY WORK AT THE COURTHOUSE. If the crown yammers on that you said this and that already to them before the trial to the judge (they probably will), object to the judge and ask him to put them on the stand. They can't go on the stand, therefore they can't use what you said earlier as evidence.
HTH! I haven't a clue in Quebec if you have to pay for court costs. In Ontario it's free (included as your "victim's surcharge" on the ticket already) so you might want to check first.
If you try to get an english court (which you are entitled to) you will probably be treated badly, but it may take some time. If it takes more than 9 months you can claim an unfair trial under the Charter of Rights.
posted by shepd at 1:51 PM on December 19, 2005
- By representing yourself
- By hiring a REAL lawyer (I believe the minimum charge is $500, whether you lose or not -- you won't get this back if you win)
- (maybe) By getting a friend to represent you UNPAID while you are in the courtroom.
The last option might be legal in Quebec because it is listed in the Criminal Code as an acceptable remedy (section 800, IIRC, "by agent" representation). But I bet you'd get the joy of fighting it as hard as Pointts had to in Ontario to claim your rights. I know when I helped a friend using that section of the code many judges were so ignorant of the law (funny that, isn't it?) they had to look it up for themselves before they would believe me...
Contest the ticket. Talk to the crown prior and explain your story. If they buy it hook line and sinker, they will help drop the charges. If not, you get to try your story with the judge. DO NOT LET ANYBODY BUT THE CROWN HEAR YOUR STORY FIRST IF THEY WORK AT THE COURTHOUSE. If the crown yammers on that you said this and that already to them before the trial to the judge (they probably will), object to the judge and ask him to put them on the stand. They can't go on the stand, therefore they can't use what you said earlier as evidence.
HTH! I haven't a clue in Quebec if you have to pay for court costs. In Ontario it's free (included as your "victim's surcharge" on the ticket already) so you might want to check first.
If you try to get an english court (which you are entitled to) you will probably be treated badly, but it may take some time. If it takes more than 9 months you can claim an unfair trial under the Charter of Rights.
posted by shepd at 1:51 PM on December 19, 2005
Response by poster: Okay firstly the mistake I made was not that I thought they woudln't mind. It's that the difference in the price scale (remember one is weekly and one is monthly) made enough sense that I didn't think twice. I was caught using a pass which I should not be using because pharmacy people are misleading.
It says on the ticket I may have to pay court costs if I contest.
How do I talk to the crown prior to the case? That's sort of a confusing description. Also if I go to court etc etc do you it may take several days or so of my work time? At that point the savings will be more or less negated.
I would like the ticket to be reduce maybe, it's tought to pay such a huge fine! I AM a student and I honestly was not aware of the mistake I was making.
posted by Napierzaza at 2:58 PM on December 19, 2005
It says on the ticket I may have to pay court costs if I contest.
How do I talk to the crown prior to the case? That's sort of a confusing description. Also if I go to court etc etc do you it may take several days or so of my work time? At that point the savings will be more or less negated.
I would like the ticket to be reduce maybe, it's tought to pay such a huge fine! I AM a student and I honestly was not aware of the mistake I was making.
posted by Napierzaza at 2:58 PM on December 19, 2005
try http://www.dropcash.com/
posted by Tryptophan-5ht at 5:45 PM on December 19, 2005
posted by Tryptophan-5ht at 5:45 PM on December 19, 2005
Is this the STM that you got your fine on? Because this page lists a single reduced-fare rate for ALL students. Or, was it the case that you got a Reduced Fare Access Card instead of a carte privilege?
posted by antifuse at 3:56 AM on December 20, 2005
posted by antifuse at 3:56 AM on December 20, 2005
>How do I talk to the crown prior to the case?
When you go to the courthouse to tell them you contest the charges, tell them you would like to meet with the crown. Here, in Ontario, we call it a "First Appearances Meeting". Tell the cashier (well, at the courthouse I've been to it's the cashier that handles this) that you believe you have extenuating circumstances that would lead the crown to drop the charges.
It's in the government's best interest to let the crown hear you out first, because it lets them build a case against you (usually bad) but also lets the government get rid of cases it knows it won't win (good!)
posted by shepd at 10:12 AM on December 20, 2005
When you go to the courthouse to tell them you contest the charges, tell them you would like to meet with the crown. Here, in Ontario, we call it a "First Appearances Meeting". Tell the cashier (well, at the courthouse I've been to it's the cashier that handles this) that you believe you have extenuating circumstances that would lead the crown to drop the charges.
It's in the government's best interest to let the crown hear you out first, because it lets them build a case against you (usually bad) but also lets the government get rid of cases it knows it won't win (good!)
posted by shepd at 10:12 AM on December 20, 2005
Response by poster: It was a carte priviledge. But that website you listed does not really develope a difference between the 18 year olds or the university students for the weekly pass.
posted by Napierzaza at 8:49 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by Napierzaza at 8:49 AM on December 21, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by dobie at 10:32 AM on December 19, 2005