Bleach and Alcohol
February 29, 2016 5:57 PM Subscribe
Partner mixed diluted bleach with champagne in our kitchen sink. I promptly drained the solution, but worry about using the kitchen sink to hand-wash our dishes. (We exclusively hand wash our dishes, and do not possess a dishwasher.)
According to buzzfeed, rubbing alcohol and bleach will produce chloroform, so I am a bit concerned about possible contamination to our kitchen sink.
The mixture originally contained approximately 1/2 cup bleach, diluted with a basin of water. My partner added approximately 1/4 cup leftover champagne (12% alcohol content) into the solution, thinking of combination would be non-reactive and inconsequential.
Should I be concerned about contamination? If so, how do I clean the sink? I an reluctant to add more bleach...
Thanks!
According to buzzfeed, rubbing alcohol and bleach will produce chloroform, so I am a bit concerned about possible contamination to our kitchen sink.
The mixture originally contained approximately 1/2 cup bleach, diluted with a basin of water. My partner added approximately 1/4 cup leftover champagne (12% alcohol content) into the solution, thinking of combination would be non-reactive and inconsequential.
Should I be concerned about contamination? If so, how do I clean the sink? I an reluctant to add more bleach...
Thanks!
It is non-reactive and inconsequential. You'd never drink rubbing alcohol, would you? It's a much higher concentration of alcohol than champagne. Plus the bleach was already diluted in water.
posted by kitten magic at 6:04 PM on February 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by kitten magic at 6:04 PM on February 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is sort of like seeing that you shouldn't mix bleach and ammonia and then freaking out because you peed in a toilet that had previously been bleached.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:33 PM on February 29, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:33 PM on February 29, 2016 [39 favorites]
Also, the bleach in bleach/water solution chemically breaks down within 24 hours or so. We have to use bleach-water spray at my job, and we have to make a fresh bottle every morning for that reason.
posted by Nibbly Fang at 9:19 PM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Nibbly Fang at 9:19 PM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Chloroform evaporates very rapidly. Any small amount that might have been produced by bleach reacting with dilute alcohol in your sink is long gone by now.
posted by flabdablet at 10:53 PM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 10:53 PM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's fine. Wash your sink with dishwashing liquid and water if you're concerned, but you really don't need to worry too much about this
posted by kinddieserzeit at 11:54 PM on February 29, 2016
posted by kinddieserzeit at 11:54 PM on February 29, 2016
Chloroform is present in all chlorinated drinking water. The likelihood it's going to hurt you is all about concentration - and the amount of chloroform you can generate from a few grams each of sodium hypochlorite and ethanol is going to be pretty small, and that's diluted in several litres of water, never even mind that it's also dissolved so you're not going to inhale it and you aren't going to ingest it because you're not drinking your dishwater, and it's not going to persist on your dishes, either, because you're going to rinse them, so no, I would not concern myself about this.
And the reaction between ethanol (that's your drinkin' alcohol, not to be confused with isopropanol, your rubbin' alcohol) and sodium hypochlorite is really slow so this isn't going to be a problem anyway.
Also common sense should tell you that 1. organic chemists are not thick on the ground at Buzzfeed, so maybe that's not a great source for information about mixing common household chemicals, and 2. people wash boozy glasses in bleachy water all the time without dying. There is a reason there is a great big warning about mixing bleach with ammonia on the side of both containers, but no warning at all about champagne.
posted by gingerest at 11:56 PM on February 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
And the reaction between ethanol (that's your drinkin' alcohol, not to be confused with isopropanol, your rubbin' alcohol) and sodium hypochlorite is really slow so this isn't going to be a problem anyway.
Also common sense should tell you that 1. organic chemists are not thick on the ground at Buzzfeed, so maybe that's not a great source for information about mixing common household chemicals, and 2. people wash boozy glasses in bleachy water all the time without dying. There is a reason there is a great big warning about mixing bleach with ammonia on the side of both containers, but no warning at all about champagne.
posted by gingerest at 11:56 PM on February 29, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah buzzfeed isn't the place I would go for chemistry advice, it is not even wrong.
Bleach and rubbing alcohol will NOT make chloroform, they will instead make acetone. I have run an analogous reaction in a lab many times. Bleach is an oxidant and will oxidize the alcohol to a carbonyl compound. It is possible that methanol and bleach could possibly make chloroform, via a formaldehyde intermediate, but an competing reaction would be further oxidation of the formaldehyde to formic acid. Isopropanol to chloroform would require the breaking of a carbon-carbon single bond, and that tends to not happen under normal circumstances.
posted by koolkat at 4:02 AM on March 1, 2016 [9 favorites]
Bleach and rubbing alcohol will NOT make chloroform, they will instead make acetone. I have run an analogous reaction in a lab many times. Bleach is an oxidant and will oxidize the alcohol to a carbonyl compound. It is possible that methanol and bleach could possibly make chloroform, via a formaldehyde intermediate, but an competing reaction would be further oxidation of the formaldehyde to formic acid. Isopropanol to chloroform would require the breaking of a carbon-carbon single bond, and that tends to not happen under normal circumstances.
posted by koolkat at 4:02 AM on March 1, 2016 [9 favorites]
For further edification on the buzzfeed article for those inclined:
1. Bleach and Vinegar - Buzzfeed: Adding any weak acid to bleach will release toxic chlorine and chloramine vapors.
Me - vinegar will protonate the sodium hypochlorite to make hypochlorous acid. You cannot make chloramines without an amine. Hypochlorous acid will release chlorine (note bleach itself will also release chlorine and chlorine in water will form hypochlorous acid. everything is in equilibrium and in terms of harmful things everything is pretty low down on the list of harmful stuff. You will know if you've been exposed well before any permanent damage occurs.)
2. Ammonia and Bleach - Buzzfeed: Ammonia + Bleach = Toxic Chloramine Vapors
Me - yep this would be bad juju. Chloramines are a highly reactive gas and when inhaled would have the potential to cause permanent damage. The bit at the end about explosive hydrazines is just scaremongering, you would be dead from chloramine exposure well before you would have to worry about hydrazines.
3. Rubbing alcohol + bleach see above.
4. Vinegar and Peroxide - Buzzfeed: Hydrogen Peroxide + Vinegar = Parecetic Acid (sic)
Me it could make some peracetic acid, which is a weaker acid than vinegar. It also can cause irritation, but to a similar extent to the peroxide and vinegar that you would have.
5. Baking Soda + Vinegar = Ineffective Cleaning Solution Yeah if the balance is correct you would essentially get a solution of sodium acetate. Don't worry about it though because all you would be doing is neutralising the acid with a base and they're both weak to boot, so you've essentially set up a decent buffer. I wouldn't hesitate to drink this it is that safe.
6. different battery types. yeah dont do this for a long time.
7. Buzzfeed: grapefruit juice can increase the absorption of drugs.
Me- Grapefruit juice can alter the activity of cytochrome enzymes, which will therefore alter the metabolism of the drugs. It can both increase and decrease the metabolism. This could have an effect on blood levels, but not due to absorption, instead due to reduced clearance and excretion.
8. Yep acetominophen is metabolised into a potent liver toxin when other cyp enzymes are activated when they are metabolising alcohol. There will also be a depletion of glutathione, which would have protected the liver. This is why codiene is coadministered with paracetamol because an overdose would cause damage so you cannot easily extract the codiene therefore reducing the risk of abuse.
9. Redbull and milk - lots of things curdle milk Don't slam a redbull after doing a gallon challenge and you'll be fine. You know what else would curdle milk? Your stomach acids.
10. Alpha hydroxy acids work by speeding exfoliation on the surface of the skin. By adding retinol you are essentially adding retinol to the dead skin cells you are going to be removing. The bit about the pH is incidental and intentionally misleading to sound more scientific. Most cosmetics are woo anyways.
11. Yeah over the counter painkillers do bad things to the stomach. Alcohol also does bad things to the stomach. Both therefore do bad things to the stomach.
12-16 Oh god why did I start thing. Listen Buzzfeed is full of shit and when it gets things correct it is like a stopped clock. Dont go to buzzfeed for anything other than stupid lists about growing up in the 80/90/70/2000 or the worst drivers are ranked by country. Buzzfeed is entertainment not news and certainly not scientific information.
posted by koolkat at 5:47 AM on March 1, 2016 [32 favorites]
1. Bleach and Vinegar - Buzzfeed: Adding any weak acid to bleach will release toxic chlorine and chloramine vapors.
Me - vinegar will protonate the sodium hypochlorite to make hypochlorous acid. You cannot make chloramines without an amine. Hypochlorous acid will release chlorine (note bleach itself will also release chlorine and chlorine in water will form hypochlorous acid. everything is in equilibrium and in terms of harmful things everything is pretty low down on the list of harmful stuff. You will know if you've been exposed well before any permanent damage occurs.)
2. Ammonia and Bleach - Buzzfeed: Ammonia + Bleach = Toxic Chloramine Vapors
Me - yep this would be bad juju. Chloramines are a highly reactive gas and when inhaled would have the potential to cause permanent damage. The bit at the end about explosive hydrazines is just scaremongering, you would be dead from chloramine exposure well before you would have to worry about hydrazines.
3. Rubbing alcohol + bleach see above.
4. Vinegar and Peroxide - Buzzfeed: Hydrogen Peroxide + Vinegar = Parecetic Acid (sic)
Me it could make some peracetic acid, which is a weaker acid than vinegar. It also can cause irritation, but to a similar extent to the peroxide and vinegar that you would have.
5. Baking Soda + Vinegar = Ineffective Cleaning Solution Yeah if the balance is correct you would essentially get a solution of sodium acetate. Don't worry about it though because all you would be doing is neutralising the acid with a base and they're both weak to boot, so you've essentially set up a decent buffer. I wouldn't hesitate to drink this it is that safe.
6. different battery types. yeah dont do this for a long time.
7. Buzzfeed: grapefruit juice can increase the absorption of drugs.
Me- Grapefruit juice can alter the activity of cytochrome enzymes, which will therefore alter the metabolism of the drugs. It can both increase and decrease the metabolism. This could have an effect on blood levels, but not due to absorption, instead due to reduced clearance and excretion.
8. Yep acetominophen is metabolised into a potent liver toxin when other cyp enzymes are activated when they are metabolising alcohol. There will also be a depletion of glutathione, which would have protected the liver. This is why codiene is coadministered with paracetamol because an overdose would cause damage so you cannot easily extract the codiene therefore reducing the risk of abuse.
9. Redbull and milk - lots of things curdle milk Don't slam a redbull after doing a gallon challenge and you'll be fine. You know what else would curdle milk? Your stomach acids.
10. Alpha hydroxy acids work by speeding exfoliation on the surface of the skin. By adding retinol you are essentially adding retinol to the dead skin cells you are going to be removing. The bit about the pH is incidental and intentionally misleading to sound more scientific. Most cosmetics are woo anyways.
11. Yeah over the counter painkillers do bad things to the stomach. Alcohol also does bad things to the stomach. Both therefore do bad things to the stomach.
12-16 Oh god why did I start thing. Listen Buzzfeed is full of shit and when it gets things correct it is like a stopped clock. Dont go to buzzfeed for anything other than stupid lists about growing up in the 80/90/70/2000 or the worst drivers are ranked by country. Buzzfeed is entertainment not news and certainly not scientific information.
posted by koolkat at 5:47 AM on March 1, 2016 [32 favorites]
I should be dead according to that article. Morels + Alcohol is a staple of my diet.
posted by jeffamaphone at 12:01 PM on March 1, 2016
posted by jeffamaphone at 12:01 PM on March 1, 2016
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No. Rinse the sink out with cold water and get on with your day. There's really nothing here.
posted by mhoye at 6:01 PM on February 29, 2016 [53 favorites]