Where'd Mom get that kind of money?
February 16, 2016 10:56 AM Subscribe
Is this "Forensic Auditor" thing a scam? Or might this be legit?
As some of you know, my Mom passed away back in early December. Sometime after the first of the year, I got a call from a guy identifying himself as a "forensic auditor", claiming that he had uncovered previously-unknown funds that belonged to my mother. And, for a 10% fee, he and his firm would take the necessary steps to get the money to us. I hung up, believing this to be some kind of nasty scam.
Then, a week later, I got snailmail from the same guy, explaining what his firm was and what they did, etc. etc. and, once again, repeating the claim that Mom had a large amount of money out there in her name, and they would be happy to dig it loose for us. I tossed the mail.
Today, I got yet another envelope from this guy, stuffed full of more details. The claim is there are funds in Mom's name that they believe total about $17,000. He also included a contract for me to sign and send back as well as a power-of-attorney contract to sign.
Now, I could certainly use the cash. But, this still smells sketchy to me, though I've never run into a scam that was this tenacious. I looked up the firm, and it appears to be a legit business (well, as legit as a business can appear on the web) The guy on the website matches the name on the correspondence and business card I was sent (of course, that doesn't mean anything). They claim that, if I don't act soon, these funds will be scooped-up by the government.
This is all very confusing to me. Sure, if mom has hidden cash out there, it would be great to recover it. OTOH, I'm suspicious of stuff like this and just feel better walking away. Then again, according to the contract, the only money I would be out of would be 10% of anything they recover. So...It sounds safe, yes? I definitely could use some extra cash right now.
Anyone here ever deal with anything like this? Is "forensic auditing" an actual, legit thing? Am I being set-up?
As some of you know, my Mom passed away back in early December. Sometime after the first of the year, I got a call from a guy identifying himself as a "forensic auditor", claiming that he had uncovered previously-unknown funds that belonged to my mother. And, for a 10% fee, he and his firm would take the necessary steps to get the money to us. I hung up, believing this to be some kind of nasty scam.
Then, a week later, I got snailmail from the same guy, explaining what his firm was and what they did, etc. etc. and, once again, repeating the claim that Mom had a large amount of money out there in her name, and they would be happy to dig it loose for us. I tossed the mail.
Today, I got yet another envelope from this guy, stuffed full of more details. The claim is there are funds in Mom's name that they believe total about $17,000. He also included a contract for me to sign and send back as well as a power-of-attorney contract to sign.
Now, I could certainly use the cash. But, this still smells sketchy to me, though I've never run into a scam that was this tenacious. I looked up the firm, and it appears to be a legit business (well, as legit as a business can appear on the web) The guy on the website matches the name on the correspondence and business card I was sent (of course, that doesn't mean anything). They claim that, if I don't act soon, these funds will be scooped-up by the government.
This is all very confusing to me. Sure, if mom has hidden cash out there, it would be great to recover it. OTOH, I'm suspicious of stuff like this and just feel better walking away. Then again, according to the contract, the only money I would be out of would be 10% of anything they recover. So...It sounds safe, yes? I definitely could use some extra cash right now.
Anyone here ever deal with anything like this? Is "forensic auditing" an actual, legit thing? Am I being set-up?
Are you the executor of your mom's estate? If not, I'd pass this off to that person to deal with. Ditto if there was an estate lawyer you could call and ask - might be worth a consult. You can also look into the unclaimed money page run by the government - if it's government-related, it might show up there, and won't requiote third-party services to get to.
posted by restless_nomad at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Yes. Most of what they find is available publicly, but a real PITA to get to because of forms and stuff. A lot of it requires man hours and boots on the ground. To me, a 10% fee sounds reasonable. I know nothing about this specific firm. I did have a guy track down some Disney stock and old dividends for me once.
posted by AugustWest at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 11:03 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I would add that sometimes firms like this are used in divorce cases to try to track hidden assets.
posted by AugustWest at 11:04 AM on February 16, 2016
posted by AugustWest at 11:04 AM on February 16, 2016
It's possible you are next of kin to someone who bequeathed funds to your mother. Forensic auditors spend their own money looking for relatives of a deceased person and only get paid a finders fee. They will probably have a contract of some kind. Have it reviewed but it will probably be fee simple.
posted by parmanparman at 11:04 AM on February 16, 2016
posted by parmanparman at 11:04 AM on February 16, 2016
It sound sketchy yet at the same time could be (at least somewhat) legit....your state probably has a "missing money/unclaimed funds" website you can check to see if there is anything listed under her name.
If there is money under her name that you can recover it is really something you could likely do on your own for free (or for pretty cheep)...the company that contacted you is just sort of selling a service to recover said cash...and even if you don't want to deal with it on your own a lawyer may be able to do it for you for way less.
posted by Captain_Science at 11:04 AM on February 16, 2016
If there is money under her name that you can recover it is really something you could likely do on your own for free (or for pretty cheep)...the company that contacted you is just sort of selling a service to recover said cash...and even if you don't want to deal with it on your own a lawyer may be able to do it for you for way less.
posted by Captain_Science at 11:04 AM on February 16, 2016
Don't know about this firm but it is a legitimate real line of business. 10% is not unusual.
posted by H. Roark at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by H. Roark at 11:10 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Here is a NYT article about a case where the company had totally legit information, although the family balked at paying the fee.
posted by acidic at 11:13 AM on February 16, 2016
posted by acidic at 11:13 AM on February 16, 2016
10% is very reasonable as a finder's fee. Get a lawyer's eyes on the contract and PoA, though.
If they ever ask you to advance money, though, it's time to cut the line.
posted by Sunburnt at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
If they ever ask you to advance money, though, it's time to cut the line.
posted by Sunburnt at 11:14 AM on February 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Here is a NYT article about a case where the company had totally legit information, although the family balked at paying the fee.
posted by acidic at 2:13 PM on February 16 [+] [!]
Actually my takeaway from that article was that the company had legit information that the family was already aware of and then claimed a finders fee on assets the family had already found. Basically they charged them fee to get to money they already know about. If your mother left you any known assets I would secure those first and see if these people still persist in calling.
posted by edbles at 11:22 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by acidic at 2:13 PM on February 16 [+] [!]
Actually my takeaway from that article was that the company had legit information that the family was already aware of and then claimed a finders fee on assets the family had already found. Basically they charged them fee to get to money they already know about. If your mother left you any known assets I would secure those first and see if these people still persist in calling.
posted by edbles at 11:22 AM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've gotten them and my husband has gotten the same letters, they have always been for unclaimed property which is publicly available information and not actually that difficult to claim yourself.
I've done it once for myself (for $600 in CA) and once for my husband (for $1400 in TX). Both times the form was relatively short, the most difficult part was finding the proof that we lived at that address (which the people offering to do this for you would need you to do anyway).
For the record, the government unclaimed property page isn't just for government related funds. All companies are supposed to escheat unclaimed funds to the state government after a certain period of time, things like unclaimed security deposits, bank accounts, uncashed pay checks, etc.
posted by magnetsphere at 11:35 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've done it once for myself (for $600 in CA) and once for my husband (for $1400 in TX). Both times the form was relatively short, the most difficult part was finding the proof that we lived at that address (which the people offering to do this for you would need you to do anyway).
For the record, the government unclaimed property page isn't just for government related funds. All companies are supposed to escheat unclaimed funds to the state government after a certain period of time, things like unclaimed security deposits, bank accounts, uncashed pay checks, etc.
posted by magnetsphere at 11:35 AM on February 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Not meaning to threadsit, but, since some have asked...
• I am/was the executor.
• Mom left us nothing. She was in a nursing home on Medicaid. All her assets had to be liquidated prior to being approved for Medicaid support. That included property, insurance policies, annuities and any known investments and/or stocks. As far as we could determine, all that was dealt with.
• I've used both my state and the federal unclaimed property sites and have always come up empty.
She was never a wealthy person. She lived off Social Security and a widow's pension, which makes this so questionable. There is only about $2,000 left in her checking account, which is sitting there in case Medicaid decides they need reimbursed or if she owes taxes again this year, whichever comes first.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:38 AM on February 16, 2016
• I am/was the executor.
• Mom left us nothing. She was in a nursing home on Medicaid. All her assets had to be liquidated prior to being approved for Medicaid support. That included property, insurance policies, annuities and any known investments and/or stocks. As far as we could determine, all that was dealt with.
• I've used both my state and the federal unclaimed property sites and have always come up empty.
She was never a wealthy person. She lived off Social Security and a widow's pension, which makes this so questionable. There is only about $2,000 left in her checking account, which is sitting there in case Medicaid decides they need reimbursed or if she owes taxes again this year, whichever comes first.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:38 AM on February 16, 2016
Yeah, that NYT article makes this sound potentially scammy, even if there is actually money out there, but given your update, and the fact that you've already looked in the unclaimed property database, I'm not sure what you have to lose (of course, definitely think about having a lawyer look at the contract...).
Maybe ask for some referrals to previous customers who you can verify are real people and talk to in order to make sure they are satisfied?
Also, I can't figure out why you need to give him power of attorney now. You sign a contract, he identifies the money and tells you why he needs power of attorney to get it, then you sign the power of attorney.
posted by _Silky_ at 11:43 AM on February 16, 2016
Maybe ask for some referrals to previous customers who you can verify are real people and talk to in order to make sure they are satisfied?
Also, I can't figure out why you need to give him power of attorney now. You sign a contract, he identifies the money and tells you why he needs power of attorney to get it, then you sign the power of attorney.
posted by _Silky_ at 11:43 AM on February 16, 2016
If your mother's name is relatively common the money may belong to someone else with the same name. It smells fishy to me.
posted by mareli at 11:43 AM on February 16, 2016
posted by mareli at 11:43 AM on February 16, 2016
It's a scam - search for his name here. Take Mentor financial group and search for that - scam warnings all over the place.
Googling Doug Kiehn also returns only bare bones results mostly pointing back to this organization which is another red flag. Searching the organization also returns absolutely nothing (except the website) nor does the phone number give anymore details. He's also not listing his credentials which most accounts gladly list on their website, which to me is a huge red flag. He also doesn't have a LinkedIn which I can't think of one executive (his about me listed him as a CFO) that doesn't have one, especially given his steller about me section - LinkedIn is kinda of an annoying necessity these days, especially if you run your own business. The guy's a ghost which is pointing to a scam albeit an aggressive one.
posted by lpcxa0 at 11:55 AM on February 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
Googling Doug Kiehn also returns only bare bones results mostly pointing back to this organization which is another red flag. Searching the organization also returns absolutely nothing (except the website) nor does the phone number give anymore details. He's also not listing his credentials which most accounts gladly list on their website, which to me is a huge red flag. He also doesn't have a LinkedIn which I can't think of one executive (his about me listed him as a CFO) that doesn't have one, especially given his steller about me section - LinkedIn is kinda of an annoying necessity these days, especially if you run your own business. The guy's a ghost which is pointing to a scam albeit an aggressive one.
posted by lpcxa0 at 11:55 AM on February 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
I've gotten that kind of letter before, and it was just a scuzzball trying to skim something off the top of some unclaimed funds (a check I'd written off from a client that stiffed me) listed on my state government website. And the 10% makes that sound likely, because apparently that's the legal limit that those people can charge in some states once the money has been turned over to the state.
So if you haven't yet, go check the unclaimed funds sites for every state she's lived or done any kind of business in. It may just be sitting there waiting to be claimed with no middleman necessary.This looks like a pretty comprehensive list of sites to check.
If you can't find it there, then I don't know. I'll bet you find it, though.
posted by ernielundquist at 12:22 PM on February 16, 2016
So if you haven't yet, go check the unclaimed funds sites for every state she's lived or done any kind of business in. It may just be sitting there waiting to be claimed with no middleman necessary.This looks like a pretty comprehensive list of sites to check.
If you can't find it there, then I don't know. I'll bet you find it, though.
posted by ernielundquist at 12:22 PM on February 16, 2016
This is also a reputable unclaimed property website that links you to different states' unclaimed property search pages through a map.
posted by interplanetjanet at 12:31 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by interplanetjanet at 12:31 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
If it was this simple/easy for this company to come across your mother's "missing" funds so soon after her death it should be easy for you to find it yourself as well.
Like magnetsphere and AugustWest mentioned this public information and available in your state's unclaimed property database.
posted by eatcake at 12:35 PM on February 16, 2016
Like magnetsphere and AugustWest mentioned this public information and available in your state's unclaimed property database.
posted by eatcake at 12:35 PM on February 16, 2016
If it was this simple/easy for this company to come across your mother's "missing" funds so soon after her death it should be easy for you to find it yourself as well.
That's the red flag for me. These "unclaimed property" things take YEARS to show up. They don't pop up 60 days after someone is deceased.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:00 PM on February 16, 2016
That's the red flag for me. These "unclaimed property" things take YEARS to show up. They don't pop up 60 days after someone is deceased.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:00 PM on February 16, 2016
She was in a nursing home on Medicaid.
If there is any money, it is likely that it would be clawed back from the estate by Medicaid as repayment for the nursing home care. So, it is unlikely that you would actually receive any money at the end of the day.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:02 PM on February 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
If there is any money, it is likely that it would be clawed back from the estate by Medicaid as repayment for the nursing home care. So, it is unlikely that you would actually receive any money at the end of the day.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:02 PM on February 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm nthing scam, from the information you gave us. I did a search for unclaimed property in California, and they were very thorough - I found an unclaimed $25 or so that was a birthday bonus from my dad's Ace Hardware loyalty card! If your mom was indigent and on Medicaid, I think that any unclaimed money would be more along the lines of $100 or so sitting in a long-forgotten bank account, not in the thousands and worth a commission.
As Mareli said, if your mom had a common first + last name combination there could be many "Linda Smiths" with unclaimed funds, or near-matches like "Lynn Smith" etc.
If you want to double-check, do a search on the unclaimed property databases under your mom's and your dad's names. If you are the executor of her will it should be simple enough to obtain the funds yourself, with a copy of the will and your mom's death certificate.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:47 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
As Mareli said, if your mom had a common first + last name combination there could be many "Linda Smiths" with unclaimed funds, or near-matches like "Lynn Smith" etc.
If you want to double-check, do a search on the unclaimed property databases under your mom's and your dad's names. If you are the executor of her will it should be simple enough to obtain the funds yourself, with a copy of the will and your mom's death certificate.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:47 PM on February 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can't vouch for that guy in particular, but my company has used two different "lost money" finders, both of whom got in touch with us via cold call. In each case we negotiated their fee down to 5% (one wanted 15 and the other wanted 10). And in each case they found money that we couldn't and delivered it to us. Our engagement with them provided that they would prepare documents for our signature, that the check(s) would be sent to our address, and that we would pay them the finders' fee only from proceeds actually received. The last two in particular protected us from the people taking more than their fee or flaking out, because we only owed if we saw real live money. I see that they offer to use an escrow service to route the money; provided that's free to you and you can research the service that seems like a fair way of doing it.
The timing seems okay. I suspect that these guys read death notices, do some searches, and then contact next-of-kin when they get a hit because it's easy money for them. The search takes very little time and though the paperwork/hoops-jumping is a pain in the butt they do it all day every day so they understand what is required and how to most efficiently navigate the maze.
These dudes seem sketchy, because fundamentally their business is a bit sketchy. But if they don't require any money or sensitive information (bank numbers, your SSN, etc.) from you, there's a fair chance that it's a legit service. If I were in your shoes I'd search the unclaimed property database to see if you can find the money first. If not, I'd at least talk to the guy to see if you can get comfortable.
posted by AgentRocket at 9:29 AM on February 17, 2016
The timing seems okay. I suspect that these guys read death notices, do some searches, and then contact next-of-kin when they get a hit because it's easy money for them. The search takes very little time and though the paperwork/hoops-jumping is a pain in the butt they do it all day every day so they understand what is required and how to most efficiently navigate the maze.
These dudes seem sketchy, because fundamentally their business is a bit sketchy. But if they don't require any money or sensitive information (bank numbers, your SSN, etc.) from you, there's a fair chance that it's a legit service. If I were in your shoes I'd search the unclaimed property database to see if you can find the money first. If not, I'd at least talk to the guy to see if you can get comfortable.
posted by AgentRocket at 9:29 AM on February 17, 2016
Response by poster: So, I opted to just ignore this guy. It just seemed far too sketchy to pursue. Thanks all!
posted by Thorzdad at 12:32 PM on March 17, 2016
posted by Thorzdad at 12:32 PM on March 17, 2016
Response by poster: Last update:
So, the auditor guy contacted me again around July. He was really adamant that I stood to miss out on a substantial amount of cash, etc. etc. He even gave me contact info for a lawyer he claims to use for these things "in my area."
So, I duck-ducked the lawyer and noticed they work primarily in the real estate field. I then recalled that this guy in Seattle had a lot of hits dealing with turning properties and the like. That suddenly set-off an alarm in my head.
Those of you following my travails last year dealing with my mom might recall that the old house we grew-up in (which I was having to evict my brother from) was put-up in a tax sale by the county. "What happens," I thought to myself, "if the property in question sells at auction for more than is owed in taxes and fines?"
So, I did my own bit of sleuthing and, lo-and-behold, discovered that any amount over the tax liability is held by the county for the original owner (or their heir) to claim. I made a call to the county assessor's office and spoke with a very helpful young woman* who confirmed to me that there was, indeed, a sizeable stack of Benjamins waiting to be claimed (the exact amount that the auditor quoted) and I had until Sept. 20 to claim it. Which, once I looked into it further, definitely requires an attorney, especially given the "special" complication of my brother.
As so happens, my wife is pretty close to the attorneys her office uses, and had been occasionally asking questions of them as I dug through this. They were, in fact, impressed that I discovered the deal about tax-sale overages being held in escrow (Their main focus isn't real estate law.) So, one of the attorneys volunteered to draw-up and file the necessary papers (before the 20th) for us to claim the overage. He's a really cool guy and told my wife he would give us the double-secret family discount for his time. (He's a single-malt drinker, so if anyone has a recommendation for a reeeeeealy special bottle that can be found in Indiana, I'd appreciate hearing about it.)
Ain't the world weird?
* I asterisk the mention of the woman in the assessor's office because, just like every other instance I've ever had to do business with anyone in a public service like this, I have never had a single complaint. They've always been professional, friendly and very, very helpful, contrary to what a lot of folks seem to believe. I just had to give props.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:22 AM on September 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, the auditor guy contacted me again around July. He was really adamant that I stood to miss out on a substantial amount of cash, etc. etc. He even gave me contact info for a lawyer he claims to use for these things "in my area."
So, I duck-ducked the lawyer and noticed they work primarily in the real estate field. I then recalled that this guy in Seattle had a lot of hits dealing with turning properties and the like. That suddenly set-off an alarm in my head.
Those of you following my travails last year dealing with my mom might recall that the old house we grew-up in (which I was having to evict my brother from) was put-up in a tax sale by the county. "What happens," I thought to myself, "if the property in question sells at auction for more than is owed in taxes and fines?"
So, I did my own bit of sleuthing and, lo-and-behold, discovered that any amount over the tax liability is held by the county for the original owner (or their heir) to claim. I made a call to the county assessor's office and spoke with a very helpful young woman* who confirmed to me that there was, indeed, a sizeable stack of Benjamins waiting to be claimed (the exact amount that the auditor quoted) and I had until Sept. 20 to claim it. Which, once I looked into it further, definitely requires an attorney, especially given the "special" complication of my brother.
As so happens, my wife is pretty close to the attorneys her office uses, and had been occasionally asking questions of them as I dug through this. They were, in fact, impressed that I discovered the deal about tax-sale overages being held in escrow (Their main focus isn't real estate law.) So, one of the attorneys volunteered to draw-up and file the necessary papers (before the 20th) for us to claim the overage. He's a really cool guy and told my wife he would give us the double-secret family discount for his time. (He's a single-malt drinker, so if anyone has a recommendation for a reeeeeealy special bottle that can be found in Indiana, I'd appreciate hearing about it.)
Ain't the world weird?
* I asterisk the mention of the woman in the assessor's office because, just like every other instance I've ever had to do business with anyone in a public service like this, I have never had a single complaint. They've always been professional, friendly and very, very helpful, contrary to what a lot of folks seem to believe. I just had to give props.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:22 AM on September 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by 256 at 11:02 AM on February 16, 2016 [4 favorites]