Inexpensive Graphics PC Workarounds
December 30, 2015 3:22 PM Subscribe
Recommendations for a super-cheap, portable PC that can run Rhino (3D modeling graphics software)?
I'm looking for an easy, relatively inexpensive (<$400) way to run Rhino (3D modeling graphics software) for Windows. I have a Macbook Pro and love Rhino for Mac, but a lot of the add-ons that I'm starting to use only work in the Windows version.
I've been running Parallels with Windows 7 in order to do this, but I'm not satisfied - it takes a long time to start up, and slows down my computer significantly. I've played with some of the settings and noticed some improvement, but it's still less than ideal. It feels silly to burden my computer in this way just to access this one software package. I think I'd feel similarly about something like Bootcamp. I work on several things simultaneously, so I have trouble limiting my computer to one function at the expense of others. So:
-Is there a laptop in my price range that could capably run Rhino and its add-ons? This would be the only function that I care about at all for this machine, and everything else could be super-sparse. I would also prefer to not use Windows 10 given everything I've been hearing about it.
-Is there some sort of portable desktop PC (the equivalent of a Mac Mini) that I could potentially hook into my Macbook (for its monitor) in order to run Rhino? I wouldn't be too thrilled for a full-on desktop, but something that has some level of portability would be great.
-Is there something that I could build myself to achieve this? I haven't built a computer before, but I'm generally good at figuring things out. I just have no idea of the first place to start for this. I just know that I need the very basics here, and can outsource things like keyboard and monitor if need be.
-Is there a very obvious solution to all of this that I've overlooking?
Thanks!
I'm looking for an easy, relatively inexpensive (<$400) way to run Rhino (3D modeling graphics software) for Windows. I have a Macbook Pro and love Rhino for Mac, but a lot of the add-ons that I'm starting to use only work in the Windows version.
I've been running Parallels with Windows 7 in order to do this, but I'm not satisfied - it takes a long time to start up, and slows down my computer significantly. I've played with some of the settings and noticed some improvement, but it's still less than ideal. It feels silly to burden my computer in this way just to access this one software package. I think I'd feel similarly about something like Bootcamp. I work on several things simultaneously, so I have trouble limiting my computer to one function at the expense of others. So:
-Is there a laptop in my price range that could capably run Rhino and its add-ons? This would be the only function that I care about at all for this machine, and everything else could be super-sparse. I would also prefer to not use Windows 10 given everything I've been hearing about it.
-Is there some sort of portable desktop PC (the equivalent of a Mac Mini) that I could potentially hook into my Macbook (for its monitor) in order to run Rhino? I wouldn't be too thrilled for a full-on desktop, but something that has some level of portability would be great.
-Is there something that I could build myself to achieve this? I haven't built a computer before, but I'm generally good at figuring things out. I just have no idea of the first place to start for this. I just know that I need the very basics here, and can outsource things like keyboard and monitor if need be.
-Is there a very obvious solution to all of this that I've overlooking?
Thanks!
Best answer: Also, try downloading VMWare Fusion (they have a 30 day free demo) and see if the performance is better than Parallels for your purposes.
posted by Candleman at 4:32 PM on December 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Candleman at 4:32 PM on December 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think there is a good solution for less than $400 that would run Rhino nearly as well as running it on your Macbook Pro with Boot Camp. A bare bones desktop will run you $400 without factoring in the cost for a new monitor.
posted by demiurge at 4:35 PM on December 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by demiurge at 4:35 PM on December 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Without knowing Rhino's exact requirements: you can get some really impressive computers secondhand for that price.
posted by egg drop at 6:08 PM on December 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by egg drop at 6:08 PM on December 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: -Is there a very obvious solution to all of this that I've overlooking?
You may well already have looked into this, but as a possible alternative: would Rhino will run adequately under CrossOver (or Wine, the open-source package it's based on)? A lot of Windows software won't run this way, but a quick search suggests at least some people have got versions of Rhino working, albeit possibly with some limitations.
There's much less overhead using CrossOver/Wine versus Parallels/VMWare Fusion/VirtualBox since it's just a translation layer for the programme instead of a full emulator. It's also a lot faster to start up.
posted by Temagami at 6:21 PM on December 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
You may well already have looked into this, but as a possible alternative: would Rhino will run adequately under CrossOver (or Wine, the open-source package it's based on)? A lot of Windows software won't run this way, but a quick search suggests at least some people have got versions of Rhino working, albeit possibly with some limitations.
There's much less overhead using CrossOver/Wine versus Parallels/VMWare Fusion/VirtualBox since it's just a translation layer for the programme instead of a full emulator. It's also a lot faster to start up.
posted by Temagami at 6:21 PM on December 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you all for your answers so far. Any additional recommendations for good, reliable sources for purchasing secondhand computers aside from the company's own secondhand websites?
posted by taltalim at 6:29 PM on December 30, 2015
posted by taltalim at 6:29 PM on December 30, 2015
For thinkpads specifically, there's at least one dedicated forum that's good, albeit low traffic. The prices are usually good, though there's much more variety and sometimes much better prices on eBay (occasionally you see something amazing like this but that doesn't happen too often, unfortunately). Depending on where you live, craigslist could be either a great option or a terrible one - it really seems to vary by city. And of course there's eBay.
Sometimes buying used can be a crapshoot, but then again so can buying new. I've had pretty great experiences.
posted by egg drop at 7:19 PM on December 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sometimes buying used can be a crapshoot, but then again so can buying new. I've had pretty great experiences.
posted by egg drop at 7:19 PM on December 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you go with an official refurb, the best deals site that I tend to use is Techbargains. I understand that Fatwallet is also good, but IIRC, they require signing up and other obstacles that caused me to not bother.
posted by Candleman at 8:16 PM on December 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Candleman at 8:16 PM on December 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Is there a very obvious solution to all of this that I've overlooking?
Yes, it's that you already have a Macbook that is generally superior in specs to anything you'll find for $400, that will run Windows no problem (which version depends on your hardware). You have nothing to lose (except hard disk space and a bit of hassle, I guess) by trying Bootcamp. VMs are nice but they're pretty worthless for realtime applications, and I doubt Parallels is even virtualizing your GPU.
If you feel silly having a 50GB Rhino install sitting around on your laptop, just get an external hard drive (fastest possible connection, probably USB3) and install Windows on that, then plug it into the Mac and boot off it using the Option key. This is, in essence, your "computer you could hook up to your Macbook in order to run Rhino."
There's much less overhead using CrossOver/Wine versus Parallels/VMWare Fusion/VirtualBox since it's just a translation layer for the programme instead of a full emulator. It's also a lot faster to start up.
This is worth trying first because it's far less hassle. Crossover works much better than a VM, if the app will run on it, and 3D acceleration is supported (it's commonly used for games).
posted by neckro23 at 1:03 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes, it's that you already have a Macbook that is generally superior in specs to anything you'll find for $400, that will run Windows no problem (which version depends on your hardware). You have nothing to lose (except hard disk space and a bit of hassle, I guess) by trying Bootcamp. VMs are nice but they're pretty worthless for realtime applications, and I doubt Parallels is even virtualizing your GPU.
If you feel silly having a 50GB Rhino install sitting around on your laptop, just get an external hard drive (fastest possible connection, probably USB3) and install Windows on that, then plug it into the Mac and boot off it using the Option key. This is, in essence, your "computer you could hook up to your Macbook in order to run Rhino."
There's much less overhead using CrossOver/Wine versus Parallels/VMWare Fusion/VirtualBox since it's just a translation layer for the programme instead of a full emulator. It's also a lot faster to start up.
This is worth trying first because it's far less hassle. Crossover works much better than a VM, if the app will run on it, and 3D acceleration is supported (it's commonly used for games).
posted by neckro23 at 1:03 AM on December 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you all for your responses. I will first try the CrossOver/Wine option, then booting from an external hard drive, then a refurbished computer as a last resort.
Neckro, I'm having trouble finding a good tutorial for booting Windows off of an external drive on a Mac. Any recommendations?
posted by taltalim at 12:57 PM on December 31, 2015
Neckro, I'm having trouble finding a good tutorial for booting Windows off of an external drive on a Mac. Any recommendations?
posted by taltalim at 12:57 PM on December 31, 2015
Is your Macbook SSD based? Virtual machines (like Parallels) tend to benefit from all sorts of performance factors, but startup times/launch times definitely will improve by a significant margin if you go from HDD to SSD (assuming you haven't already). Anything with a lot of drive I/O will benefit significantly.
If you decide to go the dual-boot/external drive route, an SSD in an enclosure, or Samsung's portable SSDs are a good option. This also depends on how much storage you need since SSDs are still at a premium in per-GB pricing (so worth it, though).
The issue is, when it comes to hardware costs, and buying pre-built machines, graphics cards are usually the first thing to be cut to lower the cost. SSDs are typically found in higher-end machines too. So going the pre-built route, I'm not sure there are any good options at a $400 level, from a performance perspective.
Of course, it's not completely clear the "level" of graphics performance you need or have currently. If the Macbook has internal or low-end graphics and it is adequate, then you may be able to find something comparable in your budget for Windows. These programs are different from gaming and don't always need the highest-end card.
posted by kup0 at 1:00 PM on December 31, 2015
If you decide to go the dual-boot/external drive route, an SSD in an enclosure, or Samsung's portable SSDs are a good option. This also depends on how much storage you need since SSDs are still at a premium in per-GB pricing (so worth it, though).
The issue is, when it comes to hardware costs, and buying pre-built machines, graphics cards are usually the first thing to be cut to lower the cost. SSDs are typically found in higher-end machines too. So going the pre-built route, I'm not sure there are any good options at a $400 level, from a performance perspective.
Of course, it's not completely clear the "level" of graphics performance you need or have currently. If the Macbook has internal or low-end graphics and it is adequate, then you may be able to find something comparable in your budget for Windows. These programs are different from gaming and don't always need the highest-end card.
posted by kup0 at 1:00 PM on December 31, 2015
Neckro, I'm having trouble finding a good tutorial for booting Windows off of an external drive on a Mac. Any recommendations?
You just hold down Option while powering on to get the boot selection menu.
Actually installing Windows on the drive from the Mac might be a bit tricky though. I know mine doesn't like to boot off a USB stick at all, so I had to use a DVD, which newer Macbooks don't have a drive for. You could just install it using another PC (Windows isn't as touchy about hardware changes as it used to be), but if you do this I recommend physically disconnecting any other hard drives first, or at least disabling them in BIOS.
You DON'T need to use Boot Camp Assistant for this -- that's just for if you want Windows and OSX to share the same drive. You do want to install (on Windows) the appropriate version of the "Boot Camp support software" which is available from the compatibility page.
posted by neckro23 at 1:52 PM on December 31, 2015
You just hold down Option while powering on to get the boot selection menu.
Actually installing Windows on the drive from the Mac might be a bit tricky though. I know mine doesn't like to boot off a USB stick at all, so I had to use a DVD, which newer Macbooks don't have a drive for. You could just install it using another PC (Windows isn't as touchy about hardware changes as it used to be), but if you do this I recommend physically disconnecting any other hard drives first, or at least disabling them in BIOS.
You DON'T need to use Boot Camp Assistant for this -- that's just for if you want Windows and OSX to share the same drive. You do want to install (on Windows) the appropriate version of the "Boot Camp support software" which is available from the compatibility page.
posted by neckro23 at 1:52 PM on December 31, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you are patient, you can find refurb Dell and Lenovos in that price range that will probably run it fairly well. The graphics card would be the biggest problem so you'd want to confirm that the specific one is adequate.
Is there some sort of portable desktop PC (the equivalent of a Mac Mini) that I could potentially hook into my Macbook (for its monitor) in order to run Rhino?
There's no way to just use a Macbook as a monitor, so you'd have to be running the portable PC in headless mode and using some kind of remote desktop program on the Mac to see what's going on. I don't know if this would be problematic for your purposes.
Is there something that I could build myself to achieve this?
I continue to hold that if one desires a legal copy of Windows, unless one has cheap access through work or school to buy a copy at discount, it is very, very hard to beat the prices that Dell/Lenovo/etc. can offer.
posted by Candleman at 4:31 PM on December 30, 2015 [1 favorite]