Employment contract question
July 22, 2015 9:07 PM Subscribe
I signed a contract with an employer and once I started I found out they were not honest with me regarding the type and volume of work to be done. They said I have a lot of two types of exams when I have few of those, and I have many exams of a type I have little experience in and do not care for. They also told me it would be a busy environment but in reality it is very slow, some days I do none, or maybe one or two exams all day. There is not enough work to justify having a person in my profession on as full time.
In addition, taking the job has been cost prohibitive for me because I am stuck in a lease in one city I am paying for and have an apartment that I have to pay for here, and the cost of driving back and forth. I have not found any rentals in this small town that will allow pets, so I have to keep mine back in the big city. I did the budget before moving but I realized too late I left off my student loans so I am in the red each month by about $200, which is frightening for me financially.
Also, I am just depressed here. I am bored and lonely, there is nothing to do. I cannot afford cable or internet, there are no movie theaters, bars, or other places to go out and be social, and they have no good restaurants.
To make matters worse I have now been I formed by the cardiologist that my heart condition has significantly progressed and he doesn't feel it is in my best interest to be so far (3 hours) from the nearest hospital with appropriate facilities.
The contract I signed required 60 days notice prior to termination, but I gave them two weeks when I was offered a job at a higher rate of pay in the city I live. I honestly forgot about that clause, otherwise I would have planned this diffrently. What should I expect from my employer? Would they sue me? Would I be forced to stay until they find a replacement for me? My lawyer doesn't think they will do these things as it would not be in their best interest and make folks less likely to come out to the boonies if they did sue, but I worry (because I have nothing else to do).
The new job is at a big facility that would be much busier and I would be near my family and friends. I want it because I am so freaking lonely here, and if I have to stay here the opportunity may not come back around.
Please be nice. I realize I made a mistake taking this job. I took it because I was desperate and running out of money and was afraid I wouldn't find a place to hire me so I took the first job I was offered.
In addition, taking the job has been cost prohibitive for me because I am stuck in a lease in one city I am paying for and have an apartment that I have to pay for here, and the cost of driving back and forth. I have not found any rentals in this small town that will allow pets, so I have to keep mine back in the big city. I did the budget before moving but I realized too late I left off my student loans so I am in the red each month by about $200, which is frightening for me financially.
Also, I am just depressed here. I am bored and lonely, there is nothing to do. I cannot afford cable or internet, there are no movie theaters, bars, or other places to go out and be social, and they have no good restaurants.
To make matters worse I have now been I formed by the cardiologist that my heart condition has significantly progressed and he doesn't feel it is in my best interest to be so far (3 hours) from the nearest hospital with appropriate facilities.
The contract I signed required 60 days notice prior to termination, but I gave them two weeks when I was offered a job at a higher rate of pay in the city I live. I honestly forgot about that clause, otherwise I would have planned this diffrently. What should I expect from my employer? Would they sue me? Would I be forced to stay until they find a replacement for me? My lawyer doesn't think they will do these things as it would not be in their best interest and make folks less likely to come out to the boonies if they did sue, but I worry (because I have nothing else to do).
The new job is at a big facility that would be much busier and I would be near my family and friends. I want it because I am so freaking lonely here, and if I have to stay here the opportunity may not come back around.
Please be nice. I realize I made a mistake taking this job. I took it because I was desperate and running out of money and was afraid I wouldn't find a place to hire me so I took the first job I was offered.
Trust your lawyer. Relax. This will be fine. Seriously.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:15 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by J. Wilson at 9:15 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I am freaked out, I do my very best to follow through with my commitments and so I already felt bad leaving before the end of my contract, coupled with being depressed (this is not a single counselor in this town. Not one. WTF) I feel panicked and scared.
posted by spacecowgirl at 9:24 PM on July 22, 2015
posted by spacecowgirl at 9:24 PM on July 22, 2015
The contract I signed required 60 days notice prior to termination,
In my experience, this is typically scare language just to keep workers at their desks and compliant. In practice I've only ever seen it enforced once, and that was a very special situation with some very shady closed door "hah hah we actually convinced this guy to stay" meetings taking advantage of a kid who was too nice and inexperienced to fight. Your employer certainly wouldn't give you 60 days' notice before terminating you, so you're all clear on the ethical front, too.
Trust your lawyer, let this play out, and try not to worry about it too much in the meantime.
posted by phunniemee at 9:24 PM on July 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
In my experience, this is typically scare language just to keep workers at their desks and compliant. In practice I've only ever seen it enforced once, and that was a very special situation with some very shady closed door "hah hah we actually convinced this guy to stay" meetings taking advantage of a kid who was too nice and inexperienced to fight. Your employer certainly wouldn't give you 60 days' notice before terminating you, so you're all clear on the ethical front, too.
Trust your lawyer, let this play out, and try not to worry about it too much in the meantime.
posted by phunniemee at 9:24 PM on July 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
I feel panicked and scared.
This may not be what you are looking for, but if you are panicked and scared and are having trouble sleeping or otherwise functioning ( or dealing with depression), and don't have a counselor or someone to talk to, you may consider calling a Suicide or Crisis Hotline. Don't get freaked out by the terminology, they are really just meant for people who are "panicked and scared". I worked at one for a while, and rarely did I actually speak to someone who was suicidal, it was usually people freaking out over a variety of issues. There are 800 numbers you can call, and just ask to talk to someone who can help calm you down.
posted by Toddles at 9:41 PM on July 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
This may not be what you are looking for, but if you are panicked and scared and are having trouble sleeping or otherwise functioning ( or dealing with depression), and don't have a counselor or someone to talk to, you may consider calling a Suicide or Crisis Hotline. Don't get freaked out by the terminology, they are really just meant for people who are "panicked and scared". I worked at one for a while, and rarely did I actually speak to someone who was suicidal, it was usually people freaking out over a variety of issues. There are 800 numbers you can call, and just ask to talk to someone who can help calm you down.
posted by Toddles at 9:41 PM on July 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
In fairness, most of the things in your question are not relevant to your employment contract - budget, boredom, loneliness, pets, family, desperation. None of that is relevant to your employment contract. Even the hospital issue is probably not an employment issue unless there is a disability. Does your contract specify the type or volume of exam? Is there also a clause in your job description that says something to the effect of other duties as assigned?
Basically, you are breaking your employment contract outside of the conditions to which you agreed. Listen to your lawyer. You are not in a great position here, but the expense and bother of taking you to court isn't worth it to a large company. Your lawyer can advise you. Employment contracts are written to give the employer options - that doesn't mean they have any intention of exercising those options.
In the meantime, it sounds like your need someone to talk you through some panic. If you don't want to call a crisis hotline, you can look in your employee benefits and see if there is an Employee Assistance hotline often called EAP. You're a current employee and it's a benefit available to you. (It's confidential.)
posted by 26.2 at 9:57 PM on July 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Basically, you are breaking your employment contract outside of the conditions to which you agreed. Listen to your lawyer. You are not in a great position here, but the expense and bother of taking you to court isn't worth it to a large company. Your lawyer can advise you. Employment contracts are written to give the employer options - that doesn't mean they have any intention of exercising those options.
In the meantime, it sounds like your need someone to talk you through some panic. If you don't want to call a crisis hotline, you can look in your employee benefits and see if there is an Employee Assistance hotline often called EAP. You're a current employee and it's a benefit available to you. (It's confidential.)
posted by 26.2 at 9:57 PM on July 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Seriously, don't worry. If you have a Cardiologist who can back you up on it being necessary for you to quit, no HR department is going to want to go up against that.
posted by LilithSilver at 10:06 PM on July 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by LilithSilver at 10:06 PM on July 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
coupled with being depressed (this is not a single counselor in this town. Not one. WTF)
Hey, hang in there. One thing to consider that a primary care physician can help with medical solutions to depression and anxiety, if you think something like that would be warranted. I had been seeing a counselor for awhile, and he directed me back to my primary physician to discuss things like xanax (quick acting for moments of anxiety) and wellbutrin (along with other longer term treatments). It was a life-changing move for me that has helped for those moments in life that are difficult, and also my longer term well-being. So, if you have a doctor in your town, you likely have access to some things that can really be helpful for coping with depression and anxiety. Also, even if you are not religious, some churches have counselors who can be a good ear for you to process stuff (most counseling is about being a good listener) without putting pressure on you to have similar religious leanings.
Again, hang in there. Sometimes depression really distorts the lens through which we see life, even such that depression feels sort of "normal," or we can't imagine how we might feel better. I wish you much peace as you navigate possible solutions.
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:07 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hey, hang in there. One thing to consider that a primary care physician can help with medical solutions to depression and anxiety, if you think something like that would be warranted. I had been seeing a counselor for awhile, and he directed me back to my primary physician to discuss things like xanax (quick acting for moments of anxiety) and wellbutrin (along with other longer term treatments). It was a life-changing move for me that has helped for those moments in life that are difficult, and also my longer term well-being. So, if you have a doctor in your town, you likely have access to some things that can really be helpful for coping with depression and anxiety. Also, even if you are not religious, some churches have counselors who can be a good ear for you to process stuff (most counseling is about being a good listener) without putting pressure on you to have similar religious leanings.
Again, hang in there. Sometimes depression really distorts the lens through which we see life, even such that depression feels sort of "normal," or we can't imagine how we might feel better. I wish you much peace as you navigate possible solutions.
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:07 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I have to be honest, I am so bored and depressed here I cannot stand it. If they were to force me to stay I feel kind of fearful for my mental wellbeing because of that and the bad financial situaion. I know I got myself into this, I took the first job that came along. They misrepresented the job and now I am stuck. There is nothing in the contract that specifies type or volume of exam, that all came from speaking with the former CEO, HR, and the previous person in the position. I feel like I am going to lose no matter what here. If I stay, I will just fall farther into debt and be more and more dperessed, and if I go and they sue me I may be stuck with whatever bill they make me pay. No win is how I feel.
posted by spacecowgirl at 10:09 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by spacecowgirl at 10:09 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I would not go to the doctors here. I work with them and they are pill dispensers, not physicians. The hospita has a zero tolerance policy for drugs, so even though I have a standing valium script I cannot take it, I would be immediately terminated.
I might call the help line. Years ago when I worked for a substance abuse program we gave that number out a lot, so I know how it works. I just feel bad using resources someone else needs more. Though as I read over my posts maybe I should do that. I knew I was depressed but I didn't realize until now how truly bad it has gotten.
posted by spacecowgirl at 10:15 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I might call the help line. Years ago when I worked for a substance abuse program we gave that number out a lot, so I know how it works. I just feel bad using resources someone else needs more. Though as I read over my posts maybe I should do that. I knew I was depressed but I didn't realize until now how truly bad it has gotten.
posted by spacecowgirl at 10:15 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Even if hey sue you it's worth leaving a situation that makes you unhappy. Get yourself to a better place and then deal with any (unlikely) fallout.
posted by 26.2 at 10:15 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by 26.2 at 10:15 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Also, medical reasons are not exempt. It states specifically in the contract medical conditions do not void any clause or the duration written into the contract.
posted by spacecowgirl at 10:17 PM on July 22, 2015
posted by spacecowgirl at 10:17 PM on July 22, 2015
Does your lawyer actually say that they can sue with a clause like that? Most jobs are at-will and that goes both ways. They can terminate you at any time and you can leave at any time. It could be one of those things where having the clause doesn't actually override normal laws (like how my company has an anti-competitive clause in my contract, but they can't actually enforce it in CA).
posted by just.good.enough at 10:38 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by just.good.enough at 10:38 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
When you started employment, did you receive a signing bonus, relocation costs, moving costs, or anything like that? That's the kind of stuff they're more likely to want to get back.
posted by ryanrs at 10:54 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ryanrs at 10:54 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
You are making the right decision for yourself, even if your current employer is upset by it. You didn't plan to leave on these terms, but this is what is best. Stand strong and know you are making the right choice.
posted by samthemander at 12:20 AM on July 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by samthemander at 12:20 AM on July 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
It states specifically in the contract medical conditions do not void any clause or the duration written into the contract.
Ask your lawyer about non-enforceability of contracts containing unconscionable provisions.
posted by flabdablet at 1:57 AM on July 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
Ask your lawyer about non-enforceability of contracts containing unconscionable provisions.
posted by flabdablet at 1:57 AM on July 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
I've rarely seen anyone try to force someone to stay through the termination clause period, although theoretically they could. I've done it once as a manager, but then I had easy leverage in that the employee wanted to be released from their non-compete clause and I refused to do that unless she stayed long enough to train her replacement. I would not have gone to court to stop her had that leverage been lacking. You will certainly not be able to use them as a reference, but I guess you know that.
posted by frumiousb at 2:25 AM on July 23, 2015
posted by frumiousb at 2:25 AM on July 23, 2015
Right, I don't think the medical condition clause could be enforced. And your lawyer has looked at it. So please don't worry about the contract.
It's going to be ok. Take deep breaths and fix your eye and your mind a little further out than where it's focusing now. Instead of thinking of the next day or week, think about how your life will be in three or six months. How you'll be back in your apartment with your animals, closer to friends and family, working at a place you like. Keep that vision in your mind when you feel panicky. You are going to be ok. It's all going to be ok.
posted by dawkins_7 at 3:24 AM on July 23, 2015
It's going to be ok. Take deep breaths and fix your eye and your mind a little further out than where it's focusing now. Instead of thinking of the next day or week, think about how your life will be in three or six months. How you'll be back in your apartment with your animals, closer to friends and family, working at a place you like. Keep that vision in your mind when you feel panicky. You are going to be ok. It's all going to be ok.
posted by dawkins_7 at 3:24 AM on July 23, 2015
What should I expect from my employer?
The most important part of all of this seems, to me, to be missing, here. You already turned in notice, right? So... what did your employer actually say about it? There are tons and tons of things in life where someone would have the option to sue you over it, even if they might not win, but the thing that makes this not a total nightmare is that it's relatively rare for anybody to actually do it. This shouldn't be that opaque, it's extremely unlikely that they'll act like it's fine to your face and then try to sneak up on you to enforce it in court. Not impossible, but unlikely. Your first guide for expectations here should be how they've treated your notice.
posted by Sequence at 5:08 AM on July 23, 2015
The most important part of all of this seems, to me, to be missing, here. You already turned in notice, right? So... what did your employer actually say about it? There are tons and tons of things in life where someone would have the option to sue you over it, even if they might not win, but the thing that makes this not a total nightmare is that it's relatively rare for anybody to actually do it. This shouldn't be that opaque, it's extremely unlikely that they'll act like it's fine to your face and then try to sneak up on you to enforce it in court. Not impossible, but unlikely. Your first guide for expectations here should be how they've treated your notice.
posted by Sequence at 5:08 AM on July 23, 2015
Response by poster: The HR lady was sad, but not angry. She and I had a good conversation about why I needed to leave and ways I thought they could make the department and hospital better. She said they were sad to see me go.
The CEO, however, is furious and has apparently gone on a rampage over it (I know it sounds silly but she has rampages often ) and she has been shown to be vindictive.
I put up notices in professional groups for replacement and they have has multiple applications already and the position isn't even posted officially. I thought that would help but apparently not for the CEO. She is what started my panic yesterday.
posted by spacecowgirl at 5:49 AM on July 23, 2015
The CEO, however, is furious and has apparently gone on a rampage over it (I know it sounds silly but she has rampages often ) and she has been shown to be vindictive.
I put up notices in professional groups for replacement and they have has multiple applications already and the position isn't even posted officially. I thought that would help but apparently not for the CEO. She is what started my panic yesterday.
posted by spacecowgirl at 5:49 AM on July 23, 2015
I'm going nth down on encouraging you to just do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. Let your lawyer handle the contractual shit. It's going to all work out and you'll be soooo much happier in a month or two when you are in a better place (physically, emotionally, employment, etc.).
As to the specific question, it doesn't sound like this clause in the contract was defined with specific outline of consequences. In other words, if they actually were to pursue any action against you, they would need to start by inventing some story to tell the judge about additional expenses they incurred in operating their business due to only two weeks notice which they would have not incurred with the 60 days notice. Your lawyer would have a field day shooting holes in this story. They should know that. So, in the end it is only worth pursuing for them in the manner of bluster and temper tantrums. Hopefully the CEO will get something else to distract her soon enough - vindictive egos are indeed frightening. Then, life goes on and you get to be much happier.
posted by meinvt at 6:29 AM on July 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
As to the specific question, it doesn't sound like this clause in the contract was defined with specific outline of consequences. In other words, if they actually were to pursue any action against you, they would need to start by inventing some story to tell the judge about additional expenses they incurred in operating their business due to only two weeks notice which they would have not incurred with the 60 days notice. Your lawyer would have a field day shooting holes in this story. They should know that. So, in the end it is only worth pursuing for them in the manner of bluster and temper tantrums. Hopefully the CEO will get something else to distract her soon enough - vindictive egos are indeed frightening. Then, life goes on and you get to be much happier.
posted by meinvt at 6:29 AM on July 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Here are the questions I would ask my lawyer:
1. Is the notice provision enforceable?
2. If it is enforceable, will the remedy be damages, or could they actually make me stay and keep working here?
3. If the remedy is damages, is there a liquidated damages clause, and if not, how would we estimate their damages?
4. Is there a noncompete agreement that will prevent me from working at the next job that I have lined up?
These are all fairly easy questions, and your attorney should be able to answer them with a fairly high degree of confidence. I suspect your attorney will tell you, at the very least, that they can't specifically enforce the notice clause (i.e., get a court to order you to stay), but I don't know the answer to that and your attorney does.
Also, you mentioned that you have a prescription for valium, but that you would be terminated if you took it. Um, so what? You're quitting. If they want to say "you can't quit, you're fired," doesn't that leave you in the position you want to be in?
posted by J. Wilson at 6:39 AM on July 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
1. Is the notice provision enforceable?
2. If it is enforceable, will the remedy be damages, or could they actually make me stay and keep working here?
3. If the remedy is damages, is there a liquidated damages clause, and if not, how would we estimate their damages?
4. Is there a noncompete agreement that will prevent me from working at the next job that I have lined up?
These are all fairly easy questions, and your attorney should be able to answer them with a fairly high degree of confidence. I suspect your attorney will tell you, at the very least, that they can't specifically enforce the notice clause (i.e., get a court to order you to stay), but I don't know the answer to that and your attorney does.
Also, you mentioned that you have a prescription for valium, but that you would be terminated if you took it. Um, so what? You're quitting. If they want to say "you can't quit, you're fired," doesn't that leave you in the position you want to be in?
posted by J. Wilson at 6:39 AM on July 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
The hospita has a zero tolerance policy for drugs, so even though I have a standing valium script I cannot take it, I would be immediately terminated
It's hard for me to believe a zero tolerance policy for drugs includes prescription medications. I mean, if you were diabetic you'd be allowed to take your insulin, right? In any case, why do you care about being terminated? You want to leave this job...
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:45 AM on July 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's hard for me to believe a zero tolerance policy for drugs includes prescription medications. I mean, if you were diabetic you'd be allowed to take your insulin, right? In any case, why do you care about being terminated? You want to leave this job...
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:45 AM on July 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: It is true, if you have to use prescription pain killers, or antianxiety medication you are required to take off duty if you participate in patient care (which I do) for the time you need the medication.
However, good point about not wanting to get fired. I guess at this point it doesn't matter (that much).
posted by spacecowgirl at 7:50 AM on July 23, 2015
However, good point about not wanting to get fired. I guess at this point it doesn't matter (that much).
posted by spacecowgirl at 7:50 AM on July 23, 2015
You got a start date, right? That means you 95% done with this. Listen to your lawyer and people here: Highly unlikely they'd enforce such a contract. And if they do, well, you might be sick for a few weeks. Get away from them.
posted by LonnieK at 10:35 AM on July 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by LonnieK at 10:35 AM on July 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Don't listen to the panic coming from the CEO's rampage - she rampages about everything, and this is just one of her rampages for the week, probably. Instead,
Listen to your lawyer: it's highly unlikely that they'll do anything to enforce the contract.
Listen to yourself: you have to get out of there for your own health and welfare.
Listen to metafilter: get help, get out, get to your next (hopefully Much Better) job.
Good luck!
posted by ldthomps at 10:55 AM on July 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Listen to your lawyer: it's highly unlikely that they'll do anything to enforce the contract.
Listen to yourself: you have to get out of there for your own health and welfare.
Listen to metafilter: get help, get out, get to your next (hopefully Much Better) job.
Good luck!
posted by ldthomps at 10:55 AM on July 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
Wait a few months, then post an anonymous review on glassdoor.com about the CEO rampage. Because it's unprofessional but also because lols.
posted by ryanrs at 12:08 AM on July 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 12:08 AM on July 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
if you have to use prescription pain killers, or antianxiety medication you are required to take off duty if you participate in patient care (which I do) for the time you need the medication.
Even so, I'd still question the legality (or, hell, the morality) of such a policy. If you have a documented illness, physical or mental, that requires such medication, you take the danged drugs when you need the danged drugs. Example: I take anti-anxiety medication 3x/day. I take a prescription painkiller 2x/day. They're prescriptions written so I can prevent panic attacks and excruciating pain flare-ups. If I don't take them, I'm not functional enough to even think about working. I'd definitely ask your lawyer about this one.
posted by The Almighty Mommy Goddess at 1:37 AM on July 24, 2015
Even so, I'd still question the legality (or, hell, the morality) of such a policy. If you have a documented illness, physical or mental, that requires such medication, you take the danged drugs when you need the danged drugs. Example: I take anti-anxiety medication 3x/day. I take a prescription painkiller 2x/day. They're prescriptions written so I can prevent panic attacks and excruciating pain flare-ups. If I don't take them, I'm not functional enough to even think about working. I'd definitely ask your lawyer about this one.
posted by The Almighty Mommy Goddess at 1:37 AM on July 24, 2015
If you just stopped showing up, wouldn't they terminate you much faster than 60 days? I mean in some professions i can see this causing some sort of ethical dilemma, but if you don't even make enough to afford internet service, then hell with that.
posted by WeekendJen at 10:47 AM on July 24, 2015
posted by WeekendJen at 10:47 AM on July 24, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Toddles at 9:11 PM on July 22, 2015 [6 favorites]