How much wine is too much wine?
July 15, 2015 7:45 PM   Subscribe

Friend called expressing concern about my recent drinking habits. Not sure if she has cause to be legitimately concerned or if she's overreacting.

As someone who used to drink very rarely due to IBS (I'd have maybe one to two shots of vodka per year at most), I've recently found that I can tolerate some wines pretty well. As a 5'4" 115 lbs female with almost zero tolerance, I'm a bit of a lightweight and started very slowly.

Started with about one bottle every two weeks, small sips each night, trying different kinds, getting used to the flavors. Gradually tried a little more, found it kind of relaxing to come home and have a small glass at night, and went through that next bottle in about a week. I thought of it mostly as a small treat, just something to look forward to at the end of a day that tasted nice.

Then over the weekend, a bunch of things in my life took a turn for the worse and I was having an extremely rough night. After I tried reaching out to some close friends with a "Hey, I'm having a very rough night and could really use some company and a hug if you are available." and getting no replies, it culminated in a night where I was home alone and drank way too much. Friends later returned my calls, concerned, and my roommate came home to find me hungover the next day. I know drinking alone is not generally advised, but it felt nice to just be able to let go of shit when everything felt so overburdening and unmanageable. Felt pretty terrible the next day, but figured something like this happens to everybody at some point and brushed it off.

I've had up to two glasses a night since then, and while I am aware this is much different from my previous habits of close to zero alcohol ever, I don't believe it is anything over the top. More just a relaxing way to kind of temporarily take a break from everything going on right now after I come home each day.

Until tonight, where I got a call from a friend who expressed extreme concern at my getting drunk the other night, asked if I had been drinking since then, and then told me that if I am having more than two or three glasses per week that I am drinking too much.

I know my escalating drinking habits are probably not the BEST thing in the world, but don't believe them to be a PROBLEM in particular, or that I am drinking an excessive amount of alcohol. She, on the other hand, expressed concern that she is afraid I am going down the path of my ex (who had a drinking problem) and that she wasn't happy with how much I have been choosing to drink.

So this got me thinking and wondering - how much wine is too much? When is it okay, and when does it start becoming a problem? Is she right to be concerned?
posted by Malleable to Food & Drink (29 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Here's an article from the NIH. It seems to suggest that more than one drink per day is not recommended. It also gives some information on when they consider it to be harmful (under the "Women and Problem Drinking" section).
posted by that girl at 7:50 PM on July 15, 2015 [2 favorites]


I don't think it's necessarily a matter of amount unless you are doing yourself physical harm (which is debatable at your weight/consumption). Could you stop for a week? Two? A month? Is the thought troubling? Unbearable? I think that would bring more clarity to the situation.
posted by desjardins at 7:54 PM on July 15, 2015 [6 favorites]


If that was the one and only time you got drunk and acted out, I don't see a problem with a glass or two of wine at night, but I wouldn't go beyond that. Maybe see if you can go a night or two without drinking.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:55 PM on July 15, 2015 [3 favorites]


A couple of glasses/night for a week is not really a habit. However, it seems problematic that your express and only purpose in drinking is to take a break/relax alone. And you are describing a drastic step up in regular/daily consumption over a short period of time, which seems to be clearly linked to you coping with life's stresses. So that is a concern. Two glasses/day is way beyond a 'treat', which is an infrequent thing. Find other ways to relax at the end of the day.
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:58 PM on July 15, 2015 [18 favorites]


Best answer: I think two things are true here: 1) You're increasing the amount you drink every night/every week, and you should keep an eye on that to make sure you can keep it under control. And 2) Your friend totally overreacted to your one bad night, and that is likely more about her relationship with alcoholism (either in herself or loved ones) than it is about what you did that one night.

Give your friend a pass, if you want, for being reactionary. And, make sure you're not going down a bad road. It's easier to get off that road now than it is later, if that's truly where you're headed.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:00 PM on July 15, 2015 [45 favorites]


As long as your "regular" drinking is closer to one or two glasses of wine per night than it is to a hangover every morning, you honestly have nothing to worry about. It's when two glasses turns in to "well, I'll just finish the bottle, because it's open" that you should question your drinking.
posted by pdb at 8:25 PM on July 15, 2015 [4 favorites]


I'm a teetotaler, so keep that in mind.

Alcohol consumption varies greatly across people, cultures and context.

The amount isn't really the issue.

But going from no alcohol to the start of a habit seems like a possible indication of a problem. Also, drinking alone feels very different than drinking socially to me.

No one can really answer the question but you. If you were my friend and I knew your history of near abstinance, I might express concerns about this too.
posted by jclarkin at 8:53 PM on July 15, 2015


More just a relaxing way to kind of temporarily take a break from everything going on right now after I come home each day. This has a tinge of medicating/escapism to it.

I tried reaching out to some close friends with a "Hey, I'm having a very rough night and could really use some company and a hug if you are available." and getting no replies, it culminated in a night where I was home alone and drank way too much. This is full out medicating/escaping.

Two glasses of wine in the evening because you love it, sure. Two glasses because it allows me to take a break from everything going on right now, be careful.

When alcohol begins to become a vehicle to take you away from the present, to not deal with things, you will find yourself developing an unhealthy relationship with it. That is a relationship that can't be fixed once it goes south.
posted by incolorinred at 9:01 PM on July 15, 2015 [30 favorites]


My brother asked me a similar question at one point, I think in response to guidelines indicating that generally, men shouldn't drink more than ten drinks in a week and women no more than five. Thing is, my brother is a big guy and he's really active physically and socially. 10 drinks a week means he's gone overboard if he has a beer after work Monday through Friday, plus two each on Saturday and Sunday. That doesn't sound crazy to me. Likewise, if I have a glass of wine with dinner every night of the week plus a mimosa with brunch on Saturday, that puts me over five drinks a week and again, to me, that doesn't sound problematic.

I think it's more important to think about whether you can stop and if not, why not. Or maybe just stick to having no more than one drink alone. Your friend seems concerned by a one-off incident. So show her and yourself that it was a one-time thing by not letting it happen again and I think you're in the clear.
posted by kat518 at 9:07 PM on July 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


Best answer: My personal opinion is that no, a couple of glasses of wine in the evening is not too much.

But it sounds like you're new at this, and it's not at all clear that two glasses per evening is indeed going to be your baseline. So I'd like to suggest that, if you are truly interested in watching this, that you keep an honest journal of your drinking for a few months.

(and I mean, really, be honest: you never need to show this to anyone else).

I trust you see the point in this? Right now it is unclear whether or not your wine consumption will level off at 2 glasses / night or if it's going to turn into a hyperbolic curve that goes right off the top of the graph. If you keep an accurate record, you'll know for sure where this is taking you.

Disclaimer: I don't drink, I don't really like the way it feels. But some people like to drink to relax, and I don't have a problem with that.
posted by doctor tough love at 9:09 PM on July 15, 2015 [4 favorites]


If you're drinking two glasses/night right now for the buzz, be aware that it's not going to last. Your tolerance will increase and two glasses won't do nearly as much. You'll still feel it, but a lot less than what you get now.

That's when you're going to have to think a bit more on what you want to do, or not do.

If you stay at two glasses, then you'll be fine. If you try to keep up the same perceived amount of buzz/drunk, then you'll find yourself increasing the amount you drink over time.
posted by ryanrs at 9:24 PM on July 15, 2015 [4 favorites]


Your friend is concern trolling and brainwashed by the "Just Say No" and extremist religious "temperance league" dating to the 1820's.

As long as you're not breastfeeding and you're not constantly doing stuff that you regret the next day, I'd say that your current alcohol intake is perfectly fine.
posted by porpoise at 9:25 PM on July 15, 2015 [3 favorites]


I started drinking a glass of wine at night a little while ago as a treat and a way to relax at the end of the day. I know myself, I have tendencies towards taking things too far. I quit smoking a couple years ago and there's no way I want to replace one bad habit with another. As far as the wine goes though I occasionally forget to restock or get busy and forget to have my nightly glass or just skip it because I'm full from diner or something. As long as I am able to have this kind of casual relationship with it I figure I'm fine. It's when you start centering your whole evening, every evening around your "nice relaxing drink" that you need to watch out. And yeah, no more binge drinking because you're lonely and bored. Seriously though, I think you're fine right now.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 9:51 PM on July 15, 2015 [2 favorites]


Best answer: Your wine consumption trajectory, if we leave aside That Weekend (which, if I'm interpreting correctly, was actually this past weekend?), seems pretty sane and moderate to me: You didn't drink for a long time because of health issues, you discovered that some wine is tolerable, you experimented with it for a while and figured out what worked and what you liked, and now you drink a glass or two every night.

Now, about That (This?) Weekend: while going on a bender after a life-alteringly shitty weekend is not the healthiest idea on earth, you are correct that it's something that many people have done at least once. I think your friend's concern is not just, and maybe not even primarily, about that (I assume you didn't do anything more flamboyant than sending a few drunk texts/voicemails), but also is probably partly unresolved guilt about not being available or not being sure how to support you (it sounds like there's some ongoing stuff, yeah?), and it coming out in a way that is kind of nosy and weird.
posted by kagredon at 9:56 PM on July 15, 2015 [4 favorites]


when does it start becoming a problem?

When you can't stop.

Stop drinking now, and don't touch a drop for the next week. If you can do that, you don't have a problem.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 10:34 PM on July 15, 2015 [1 favorite]


Your friend is completely overreacting. You went through some shit and got hammered one time. Now you know not to do that. Drinking one or two glasses of wine a day over the course of, what, two weeks? Whatever. Unless you're drinking crazy-expensive wine or something, there's hardly a problematic pattern of behaviour there.

But: How much is "a glass of wine"? This is where drinking alone can get iffy. With other people around, a glass of wine is that socially acceptable "just to the top of the round bit at the bottom" -- realistically one-third or one-half of a glass, at most; when nobody's looking, it might tend to get filled to the brim.

Anti-but: That said, I always drink way more when I drink with other people, because of social anxiety and peer pressure and free and/or unlimited booze!, whereas when I'm alone, without those bad influences, it's dead easy to stick to a one-drink-a-day-if-that maximum. YMMV.

If you've got a bottle-a-week habit, set yourself some rules and stick to them:
1. Don't ever have more than one bottle in the house at any given time.
2. Don't ever buy more than one bottle in a given week. (Only buy on Fridays, for example.)
...and the bonus:
3. Never spend more than $20.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:39 PM on July 15, 2015


Best answer: and then told me that if I am having more than two or three glasses per week that I am drinking too much.

Just ignore this person. What a busybody.

They are projecting some weird-ass beliefs onto your life. This is not a you thing. They are way out of the norm. I'd have infinitely more sympathy for it if it wasn't presented the way you presented it to us. It reminds me way too much of the people i know who thought that if you smoked one joint you were a mary-ja-wanna addict were going to turn your brain to jello. I think porpoise is on the right track there.

I mean it might be that i have family on one side of my own, and both sides of my partners families that's directly-just-moved-here or one generation out European, but that's a very low amount of wine to be drinking. And getting "pretty drunk" once in a while/as an exception is also normal.

I think pretty much anything in the 1-3 drinks a night range is normal.
posted by emptythought at 11:53 PM on July 15, 2015 [7 favorites]


This is really individual. I know that drinking two glasses of wine every night -- even though it is a small amount -- would be very problematic for me because after half a glass, I am perceptibly impaired. I also have a history of substance addiction and a family history of alcoholism, so I am cautious there. My husband, on the other hand, drinks 3 cans of 4.3% beer most nights and I have no concerns about his drinking patterns.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:23 AM on July 16, 2015


If I were your friend, I'd be concerned too. Not about the quantity of drinking per se, but about whatever crappiness is going on in your life that you've essentially gone from zero to 2 drinks a night in what, a month? That's not a huge amount to drink, but it's a pretty big increase in a short time.

How much is too much? Culturally (I'm in Australia, a nation of drinkers though), I'd say you're fine. No-one I know would say more than 2-3 drinks/week is too much. Though I'd have to say that most people I know would have at least 1 or 2 alcohol free nights. Medically - well the Australian guidelines say no more than 2 standard drinks a day (don't forget a "standard" drink here is 100mls of wine so a generously poured glass can easily be 2 standard drinks according to that guideline).

When is it a problem? When it's a problem. If you can't function without it, if you're turning down other activities to have your 2 glasses, if you need to regularly drink more to get the buzz, if it impairs you, if you regret either drinking or something you did while you were drinking. If you wish you could stop but just can't seem to. Doesn't sound like you have a problem at the moment, but if you find yourself drinking more, then be careful. stock.
posted by pianissimo at 5:19 AM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]


Many people I know drink daily and don't consider themselves alcoholics. I drink once a week or so and my husband considers me an alcoholic because of the reason and way I drink. People who don't believe they are alcoholics aren't, they're considered alcohol abusers, but people who consider themselves alcoholics are. This means that someone who drinks a fifth of vodka a day and doesn't consider themself an alcoholic is an alcohol abuser. Part of being an alcoholic is acknowledging and labeling oneself as such. Either way, alcohol abuse isn't healthy either, and that's what it sounds like your label would be to many folks here. Or, you are completely normal.
posted by waving at 6:45 AM on July 16, 2015


Best answer: Stop drinking now, and don't touch a drop for the next week. If you can do that, you don't have a problem.

I just want to caution you about using this as your sole metric, as I've known plenty of alcoholics who could stop drinking for a set period of time, so long as there was a definite end point. Hell, my very alcoholic dad would occasionally abstain for half a year or more. You could always tell when his internally-set 'end date' was coming up, as he would grow visibly happy and upbeat in the days before (it got to a point where excessive happiness on his part became a source of real concern and suspicion to the rest of our family). In my experience, alcoholism isn't quite so cut-and-dry.

I think you're doing a good thing by asking this question, and I do agree with the people who say that the amount you're drinking isn't that concerning, but the reasons you say you're drinking could be. My personal experience has been that drinking to alleviate stress can VERY easily get out of hand, and you would do well to seek therapy if you really are self-medicating with alcohol (there's truly no shame in seeking therapy, and you don't need to be having a major life crisis to benefit from it). There are MUCH more effective and healthy ways of taking the edge off.

So: don't panic, but do monitor, reflect on your reasons for drinking, and consider therapy if you're having trouble handling stress.
posted by DingoMutt at 6:51 AM on July 16, 2015 [9 favorites]


My personal take on this is that it's okay to drink alone. If you are enjoying the end of the day moment alone and it feels like you treat yourself to something special, then that's okay. But if you are drinking something away, because life is full of pain, you know somewhere somehow that it's not about treating yourself to something special and you have arrived in "You probably shouldn't be doing this" town. Good luck!
posted by hz37 at 7:05 AM on July 16, 2015


just a tip from someone who had similar worries: you can buy wine in smaller bottles (both half-bottle size, and smaller, single-serving). often the selection isn't great, but, on the other hand, you can polish the whole thing off in a day or two, and so aren't drinking old, stale wine, and also you don't feel tempted by the open bottle.

i buy the single-serving size and just crack one open when i feel like it, but i don't have more than a (small) bottle a day. this works well for me (and i have no worries about having an "extra" drink or two if i am at an infrequent special occasion, like a meal out or a party)

also, i make sure that at least once a week i have a day without alcohol. i read that as a suggestion somewhere when going through my "worrying about drinking" phase. i think the idea was to give your body a break at some point.
posted by andrewcooke at 7:44 AM on July 16, 2015


My father was an alcoholic: I've regularly drunk too much: I live in a very boozy culture. I don't think there's a test, or a rule, that tells you if you are drinking too much, or what too much might be for you.

I'd step away from thinking about the booze and think about your life in the round. Are you eating well, exercising? Have you got money worries, loneliness, poor relationships? Are you feeling stressed? Identify where things might be better, or where you should be going with your life, and address those issues, and I think the booze will take care of itself.
posted by alasdair at 8:38 AM on July 16, 2015


Best answer: I'm worried for you. It's not a lot of alcohol per se, but it's the context. When it becomes something you do every day as a coping strategy.... and when you get very drunk when you have a bad day... then it means alcohol is being used to numb emotions. And it works, it does numb emotions, but using it in this way creates dependence, and the amount needed to have an effect grows as your tolerance goes up, and eventually you find yourself needing to drink and drink a lot.

Alcoholism is not really about alcohol. It is about pain. Every alcoholic is drinking to help them get through the day and they have good reasons for it - their pain is so great that they need something to numb it. Kicking the habit means facing your emotions and the things you want to escape from (ie. take a break from) and finding healthier ways to regulate yourself and be with these emotions. But this is a major life project. People often recognize the need to do this work after a major life crisis ('hitting bottom' for example). And if the relationship with alcohol is so strong that you need X drinks a day just to stay centred, ie you develop a habit of drinking in response to pain that is so ingrained that it is hard-wired and you literally cant stop even if you want to, then you have am extra handicap -- in addition to facing your emotions you need to re-wire the reward pathways in your brain and de-condition yourself. Which needless to say is incredibly difficult and gets harder the deeper you go.

So: I am concerned because your drinking has escalated rapidly, you seem to be using it as an escape, and you do not seem aware that you have begun digging a hole for yourself that is going to require the effort of a lifetime to climb out of. I strongly encourage you yo see a therapist and start building a relationship with the emotions that you feel compelld to take a break from. It will be so much easier if you do this now instead of when the crisis hits.
posted by PercussivePaul at 8:38 AM on July 16, 2015 [6 favorites]


If you keep getting drunk to cope with your life, as you did over the weekend, then yeah, that is a huge red flag. If you have a glass or two just to enjoy the wine and to relax, that's not a problem so long as it doesn't create any other negative effects. I'd like to mention I'm talking about 4-5 oz glasses, not a wine glass that is filled to the brim with wine. Two of those full glasses and you're really having somewhere between 4-6 drinks in one evening, which is way too much. I suspect everyone here saying two glasses per night is fine is also referring to standard "drinks" by volume.

It's good that you're aware your behavior over the weekend was bad and are assessing your drinking habits honestly. And your friend is just looking out for you and likely comes into the situation with some very different experiences with alcoholism -- I would simply heed her warning about your weekend behavior, because she was at least partly right, and move on.
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:13 AM on July 16, 2015


In general I agree with muddpuppie's answer above, but I wanted to add two things to consider:

1. Your friend's reaction might not have been based solely on what happened that one night, but what hasn't been happening. Are you hanging out with friends less because you are staying home more? Is there another change in your behavior that you don't connect with alcohol but which maybe your friends did?

2. A lot of the answers here suggest testing yourself with rules, like, "If I can drink three days in a row and stop, then I'm not an alcoholic." Making rules about alcohol is a thing alcoholics very often do. Non-alcoholics generally don't have to. I would suggest not making a spurious rule if you don't need it, and if you do need it, then even if you do stop after that third day, you might have a problem.
posted by tofu_crouton at 11:15 AM on July 16, 2015 [4 favorites]


I think the "three drinks a week" rule is pretty extreme, but I also think your friend is probably right to be concerned. Not so much about the amount, but about the context. You've got sort of a powder keg of red flags here:
--drinking alone most of the time, as opposed to as an occasional exception to social drinking
--quickly escalating alcohol consumption
--alcohol as a substitute for human connection
--alcohol as a way to escape your problems/deal with negative emotions

I am also curious how "drunk" two drinks makes you. I'm a woman who's taller/weighs more than you, and would also describe myself as a bit of a lightweight, and two glasses of wine will definitely get me fairly buzzed -- more so than I would want to be every single night of my life. People vary quite a lot in how much alcohol they can handle before really "feeling" it -- I would be concerned if you are getting buzzed enough every single night that, for example, you couldn't drive a car. (Not because you always need to be ready to drive a car, but because it suggests a certain level of impairment/escapism that goes beyond "this is a yummy treat that tastes nice".)

That said, I have certainly been through a couple of periods in my life when I was going through a rough time and, in retrospect, used alcohol as an escape for that more than I probably should have. I would not call myself an alcoholic, I don't think it interfered with my ability to function, and after the stressful period was over, I returned to what I would consider healthier levels of alcohol consumption (currently, a few drinks a week at the most, sometimes none, never alone). But, it's certainly something to be aware of and to recognize as a red flag that you've got something to work on/deal with. And alcohol alone isn't going to fix whatever that is.

Bottom line, I would work on coping mechanisms that don't involve alcohol and directly addressing whatever problems you're dealing with. These things will be beneficial regardless of your level of alcohol consumption.
posted by rainbowbrite at 2:00 PM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]


You kinda have to finish a bottle of wine within 3 days of opening it (and refrigerating it corked).

Personally, I don't think having 2 glasses of wine every night is a good idea at all:

1) It's easy to incrementally increase the volume of alcohol you are drinking beyond "just 2" glasses
2) Wine can be very high calorie and therefore unhealthy
3) It's expensive

As well, there is no good reason to use alcohol to "relax" and "unwind". Go for a walk or do yoga instead.

We generally limit our alcohol consumption to weekends, when, as a couple, we go through a six-pack and two bottles of wine between the two of us from Friday evening to Sunday evening.

Even that seems a bit on the heavy-ish side, but we're not aiming to get drunk or even tipsy. We just like the taste of wine (which loses its taste for me anyway after a couple of glasses) and do not use it to have a good time or relax.
posted by Nevin at 10:38 AM on August 25, 2015


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