Question on the ethics of storytelling
July 12, 2015 6:28 AM Subscribe
I write and I am a white Southern woman. I have a fantastic idea for a novel set in the far future, five hundred years from now, in a particular town in the South where I grew up. It would feature no white viewpoint characters. Should I do this?
(Assume that the work would be technically competent. I have written one novel, and this is my concept for my next.)
This is a novel that would be very much about place. I do not imagine this town or region having a significant population of European-Americans in the future, for various reasons involving ongoing white flight, current/future foreign investments, and immigration due to climate change. The demographics would consist of African-Americans, Hispanics, East and South Asians, and their mixed descendants. Racism is not erased, but it is qualitatively different. There will be no white savior figures, no “magical Negroes," no flipped scripts, and nothing else I can strike off from the list of cliches.
The worldbuilding has been awesome and fascinating to me, but I continue to ask myself: by what right do I do this? For example, I wrote about a kinship system where families customarily consist of a brother and a sister raising the sister's children, not a couple of parents. Then I thought: is that just promulgating an ugly narrative about non-white families, even though I don't mean to?
That's just one example with a project that may be doomed by a thousand hours of inquiries like that. I have already read Writing the Other and have relevant personal experience, but it is never going to be enough. I have been thinking of posting this question for a while, but I decided to do so after reading this article about the comic Strange Fruit, which is a comic written by white men that is problematic. The author posits that even if it had been successfully done, it would have contributed to the “erasure of black voices” in telling their own stories. I don't want that.
Although I have friends of color, I don't consider it their job to answer this kind of question, and would never ask. It's not your job, either, except insofar as you read AskMeFi and presumably want to answer questions. I don't expect to get any cookies; I just want to write something worth reading. Can it be done?
(Assume that the work would be technically competent. I have written one novel, and this is my concept for my next.)
This is a novel that would be very much about place. I do not imagine this town or region having a significant population of European-Americans in the future, for various reasons involving ongoing white flight, current/future foreign investments, and immigration due to climate change. The demographics would consist of African-Americans, Hispanics, East and South Asians, and their mixed descendants. Racism is not erased, but it is qualitatively different. There will be no white savior figures, no “magical Negroes," no flipped scripts, and nothing else I can strike off from the list of cliches.
The worldbuilding has been awesome and fascinating to me, but I continue to ask myself: by what right do I do this? For example, I wrote about a kinship system where families customarily consist of a brother and a sister raising the sister's children, not a couple of parents. Then I thought: is that just promulgating an ugly narrative about non-white families, even though I don't mean to?
That's just one example with a project that may be doomed by a thousand hours of inquiries like that. I have already read Writing the Other and have relevant personal experience, but it is never going to be enough. I have been thinking of posting this question for a while, but I decided to do so after reading this article about the comic Strange Fruit, which is a comic written by white men that is problematic. The author posits that even if it had been successfully done, it would have contributed to the “erasure of black voices” in telling their own stories. I don't want that.
Although I have friends of color, I don't consider it their job to answer this kind of question, and would never ask. It's not your job, either, except insofar as you read AskMeFi and presumably want to answer questions. I don't expect to get any cookies; I just want to write something worth reading. Can it be done?
You're doing right to ask. You can find something different to write, and it will be great. Learning to give up things that aren't yours (ours) without fuss is part of dismantling white privilege.
posted by lokta at 6:48 AM on July 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by lokta at 6:48 AM on July 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
I think it could be done but you'd have to be very careful about the language used by the characters, and you'd never want to specify "no white characters" anywhere. This fact should percolate subtly into the reader's mind, not be trumpeted up front. If you do this carefully, with some detachment, as if you're examining an alien culture with consideration, I don't think racial politics has to come into it. This is the future. Humans are now more "mixed race" than ever. And so on.
posted by zadcat at 6:57 AM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by zadcat at 6:57 AM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Learning to give up things that aren't yours (ours) without fuss is part of dismantling white privilege.
I agree with this 1000 % IF it's about appropriating real experiences of the present. I think the ethics are a lot murkier when we're talking about futuristic fiction or sci-fi. I don't think writers from positions of race, gender or class privilege are necessarily ethically prohibited from literary leaps into imagining the consciousness of characters who are not from that same position. That's part of how fiction works.
posted by third rail at 6:58 AM on July 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
I agree with this 1000 % IF it's about appropriating real experiences of the present. I think the ethics are a lot murkier when we're talking about futuristic fiction or sci-fi. I don't think writers from positions of race, gender or class privilege are necessarily ethically prohibited from literary leaps into imagining the consciousness of characters who are not from that same position. That's part of how fiction works.
posted by third rail at 6:58 AM on July 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
I think it's less likely to be problematic because it's set in the future. You aren't trying to step into the shoes of actual real people and their experiences. Your life is very different from your characters' more because of their time period than their race. Additionally, you would be rightly criticized if a book like this contained *no* PoC, so I'm not sure why *all* PoC would be as problematic.
(I am a white lady and I could be completely wrong about this, as we often are. Looking forward to hearing other opinions on the subject.)
posted by chaiminda at 6:58 AM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
(I am a white lady and I could be completely wrong about this, as we often are. Looking forward to hearing other opinions on the subject.)
posted by chaiminda at 6:58 AM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
> You can find something different to write, and it will be great.
You can also write this, and it will be great, if you can write it well enough. There would be no literature worth reading if people wrote only about their own experiences. You seem to be avoiding the obvious pitfalls, so carry on, and remember, there will always be someone to object to whatever it is you're trying to do, so don't worry too much about it.
posted by languagehat at 7:06 AM on July 12, 2015 [30 favorites]
You can also write this, and it will be great, if you can write it well enough. There would be no literature worth reading if people wrote only about their own experiences. You seem to be avoiding the obvious pitfalls, so carry on, and remember, there will always be someone to object to whatever it is you're trying to do, so don't worry too much about it.
posted by languagehat at 7:06 AM on July 12, 2015 [30 favorites]
I just want to clarify in light of this further discussion that a futuristic fictional non-White South like this one literally claims its ancestry from people of color living in the present.
posted by lokta at 7:09 AM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by lokta at 7:09 AM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
My black perspective:
It makes me a bit uncomfortable. I don't know, it seems like white people have a fetish for "other people". Any book like this would need a lot of research. White people love to be the hero. I feel like that is why you are writing this. You're better than all those other racist whites - see I even wrote a book! This stuff makes me feel like I'm on display.
posted by Aranquis at 7:19 AM on July 12, 2015 [19 favorites]
It makes me a bit uncomfortable. I don't know, it seems like white people have a fetish for "other people". Any book like this would need a lot of research. White people love to be the hero. I feel like that is why you are writing this. You're better than all those other racist whites - see I even wrote a book! This stuff makes me feel like I'm on display.
posted by Aranquis at 7:19 AM on July 12, 2015 [19 favorites]
The reasons that Strange Fruit is problematic likely won't apply to your novel. It treats the setting, the injustice and the black characters as just local flavor--mere window-dressing for the trials of white people. I don't think it shouldn't have been published but I wouldn't read it.
Your premise, on the other hand, seems fine to me. I'm black, and I'd rather read your novel than typical SF, even if the latter 'doesn't contribute to the erasure of black voices.' Yours is a story about POC in their own setting, with their own plot and lives to be led.
Fleshed-out POC characters that aren't just mouthpieces for some view or plot devices or token spots of diversity are treasures to be cherished.
posted by cost-cutting measures at 7:22 AM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Your premise, on the other hand, seems fine to me. I'm black, and I'd rather read your novel than typical SF, even if the latter 'doesn't contribute to the erasure of black voices.' Yours is a story about POC in their own setting, with their own plot and lives to be led.
Fleshed-out POC characters that aren't just mouthpieces for some view or plot devices or token spots of diversity are treasures to be cherished.
posted by cost-cutting measures at 7:22 AM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Every piece of writing is an act of hubris. Unless we make every character ourselves we have to presume to know white and black, male and female, people of different cultures and experiences.
My rule is: you don't need to write about what you know, you need to know about what you write. Are you willing to do the research to understand your characters? I wrote a recent piece with slaves and slave-owners as characters. It took a lot of research. And that research was necessary unless I wanted to have no more than a shallow understanding and resort to cliches.
So, go for it: but after you understand two hundred years of black experience, Asian experience, immigrant experience (etc.). Then you can see the future with meaning and not just a good idea.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:23 AM on July 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
My rule is: you don't need to write about what you know, you need to know about what you write. Are you willing to do the research to understand your characters? I wrote a recent piece with slaves and slave-owners as characters. It took a lot of research. And that research was necessary unless I wanted to have no more than a shallow understanding and resort to cliches.
So, go for it: but after you understand two hundred years of black experience, Asian experience, immigrant experience (etc.). Then you can see the future with meaning and not just a good idea.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:23 AM on July 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
The worldbuilding has been awesome and fascinating to me, but I continue to ask myself: by what right do I do this
This black dude thinks you're way overthinking this and sabotaging yourself by asking questions like this. This is isn't about rights, but storytelling. I'm kinda horrified that you're framing it as "Do you have a right to do this". Of course you do, anyone does if they've compelled by the story muse.
Just do your homework. Ask your friends of color, this isn't about whether its their job, but getting the "other" right and you're just robbing yourself of valuable resources if you refused to ask your friends. Anyone with a bit of empathy, curiosity and intelligence can write about the"other".
I have been thinking of posting this question for a while, but I decided to do so after reading this article about the comic Strange Fruit, which is a comic written by white men that is problematic. The author posits that even if it had been successfully done, it would have contributed to the “erasure of black voices” in telling their own stories. I don't want that.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion and the author of that article clearly has. It was hard to read it because the author sounds immature and petty with the desire to see stories told this way by these people. I would write more, but feel little need to dwell on that particular gloomy piece.
You've heard "write what you know". There's also "write what interests you, what you're passionate about." Go for it.
Feel free to contact me if you want black opinions about your story.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:26 AM on July 12, 2015 [34 favorites]
This black dude thinks you're way overthinking this and sabotaging yourself by asking questions like this. This is isn't about rights, but storytelling. I'm kinda horrified that you're framing it as "Do you have a right to do this". Of course you do, anyone does if they've compelled by the story muse.
Just do your homework. Ask your friends of color, this isn't about whether its their job, but getting the "other" right and you're just robbing yourself of valuable resources if you refused to ask your friends. Anyone with a bit of empathy, curiosity and intelligence can write about the"other".
I have been thinking of posting this question for a while, but I decided to do so after reading this article about the comic Strange Fruit, which is a comic written by white men that is problematic. The author posits that even if it had been successfully done, it would have contributed to the “erasure of black voices” in telling their own stories. I don't want that.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion and the author of that article clearly has. It was hard to read it because the author sounds immature and petty with the desire to see stories told this way by these people. I would write more, but feel little need to dwell on that particular gloomy piece.
You've heard "write what you know". There's also "write what interests you, what you're passionate about." Go for it.
Feel free to contact me if you want black opinions about your story.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:26 AM on July 12, 2015 [34 favorites]
This is no more racist than a black person writing a book with all white characters.
Don't worry, you won't be silencing anyone else's voice by publishing a book. Everyone else is still free to publish their own work — in fact, more free now than ever before in human history. Minorities do not need to be coddled by you worrying about whether you're allowed to write about fictional characters. Novelists always make up stuff that isn't identical to their experiences. I don't know why exactly you'd want to write about a future with no white people — but then, I don't understand a lot of details in novels. Whether your story is convincing and worth reading will be decided by your audience.
posted by John Cohen at 7:26 AM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Don't worry, you won't be silencing anyone else's voice by publishing a book. Everyone else is still free to publish their own work — in fact, more free now than ever before in human history. Minorities do not need to be coddled by you worrying about whether you're allowed to write about fictional characters. Novelists always make up stuff that isn't identical to their experiences. I don't know why exactly you'd want to write about a future with no white people — but then, I don't understand a lot of details in novels. Whether your story is convincing and worth reading will be decided by your audience.
posted by John Cohen at 7:26 AM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
You might enjoy this take - it'a way different, but
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/12/novels-experience-write-difference-taylor-antrim-immunity
1. that quote about "write difference" is spot on in the firsr paragraph
2. being a novelist entails projecting and writing about what you don't know. it all depends on your skills. be the best you can and research
posted by Sijeka at 7:33 AM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/12/novels-experience-write-difference-taylor-antrim-immunity
1. that quote about "write difference" is spot on in the firsr paragraph
2. being a novelist entails projecting and writing about what you don't know. it all depends on your skills. be the best you can and research
posted by Sijeka at 7:33 AM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I should specify that by SF I meant Science Fiction, not Strange Fruit.
posted by cost-cutting measures at 7:42 AM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by cost-cutting measures at 7:42 AM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
White person, here. Terry Bisson, who is white, wrote a well-regarded science fiction novel called Fire On The Mountain which is set in a (sorta future, partly alternate history) South which is majority black. He drew very heavily on his experience in the John Brown Anti-Klan Committee, work in Black-led radical organizations, his life in the South and just...basically being a white guy with a substantially Black and POC social circle.
Honestly, I love that book, but I would feel a little weird about it if it were written today - it was written in 1988, when there were far, far fewer SF writers of color being published in English and the political climate in SF was very different.
The book is well-regarded by many critics of color and an excerpt was recently included in Octavia's Brood, so it doesn't seem to strike many people as horribly offensive.
What I notice about that book, though, is that while it centers Black characters, it also provides one major white character whose viewpoint is used to highlight the failings of liberal white people, and it depicts white people in other ways. I think that changes the way the book works.
Have you read other books by white writers with POC main characters or majority POC? One of my worries - again, as a white person - is that this is really hard for white people to do well. I can think of way more failures (by left writers whose politics I like!) than I can successes - and these are failures that are obvious to me as a white person!
Nisi Shawl and Cynthia Ward wrote a short pamplet called "Writing The Other" which touches on some challenges in writing SF about people of a different background than yourself.
What kind of SF by writers of color have you read? Again, I would recommend Octavia's Brood for an interesting set of futures mainly by writers of color. (Plus, of course, people like Shawl, Nalo Hopkinson, Andrea Hairston, etc etc)
Just as someone who writes a little SF on the side, I find myself wondering if you could use some of this material but incorporate it into a story which addresses whiteness. If you're writing from an openly white standpoint/experience (and, I mean, making it not a fucked up one) that changes the tone. I mean, not a story where a white character is "exploring" a POC space; something with an actual plot.
posted by Frowner at 7:56 AM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Honestly, I love that book, but I would feel a little weird about it if it were written today - it was written in 1988, when there were far, far fewer SF writers of color being published in English and the political climate in SF was very different.
The book is well-regarded by many critics of color and an excerpt was recently included in Octavia's Brood, so it doesn't seem to strike many people as horribly offensive.
What I notice about that book, though, is that while it centers Black characters, it also provides one major white character whose viewpoint is used to highlight the failings of liberal white people, and it depicts white people in other ways. I think that changes the way the book works.
Have you read other books by white writers with POC main characters or majority POC? One of my worries - again, as a white person - is that this is really hard for white people to do well. I can think of way more failures (by left writers whose politics I like!) than I can successes - and these are failures that are obvious to me as a white person!
Nisi Shawl and Cynthia Ward wrote a short pamplet called "Writing The Other" which touches on some challenges in writing SF about people of a different background than yourself.
What kind of SF by writers of color have you read? Again, I would recommend Octavia's Brood for an interesting set of futures mainly by writers of color. (Plus, of course, people like Shawl, Nalo Hopkinson, Andrea Hairston, etc etc)
Just as someone who writes a little SF on the side, I find myself wondering if you could use some of this material but incorporate it into a story which addresses whiteness. If you're writing from an openly white standpoint/experience (and, I mean, making it not a fucked up one) that changes the tone. I mean, not a story where a white character is "exploring" a POC space; something with an actual plot.
posted by Frowner at 7:56 AM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
If only POC were allowed to write about POC, most of Ursula K LeGuin's works would have to be banned.
You have my permission as a POC to go ahead and write this. I look forward to reading the book when it comes out!
posted by monotreme at 8:14 AM on July 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
You have my permission as a POC to go ahead and write this. I look forward to reading the book when it comes out!
posted by monotreme at 8:14 AM on July 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
First of all, I think you should write what you want. What's the worst case? Someone feels uncomfortable with it? I felt uncomfortable reading Memoirs of a Geisha or whatever that book was that Arthur Golden wrote a few years ago. The sky did not fall.
Secondly, I think there's a qualitative difference between Sci-Fi, or any other scenario where you are imagining a hypothetical world, and something like MoaG which co-opts the typical experience of a person in our actual world. The second one has... some potential pitfalls, shall we say. But the first one? Go nuts!
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:07 AM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Secondly, I think there's a qualitative difference between Sci-Fi, or any other scenario where you are imagining a hypothetical world, and something like MoaG which co-opts the typical experience of a person in our actual world. The second one has... some potential pitfalls, shall we say. But the first one? Go nuts!
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:07 AM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is fiction. I think you should write what you want. If it doesn't ring true for other people, they don't have to read it (and they won't). You shouldn't limit your creativity, your empathy, your imagination or your inner voice. I think you should write it as if you are the only one that is going to read it. It's your world you are creating.
After you start showing it to people, you will get feedback as to whether it sounds and feels compelling and then you can choose or not choose to calibrate. But this is about a fictional world you are creating, so I think you should go for it.
posted by gt2 at 10:39 AM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
After you start showing it to people, you will get feedback as to whether it sounds and feels compelling and then you can choose or not choose to calibrate. But this is about a fictional world you are creating, so I think you should go for it.
posted by gt2 at 10:39 AM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Just my opinion, but you shouldn't let thoughts of "what other people might think" influence what you choose to write about. Your only concern should be making it good enough that it reads and sells well.
Specific to the scenario you present: 500 years in the future? Your guess is as good as mine or anyone's. Just go ahead and do it.
Heck, if it turns out to be controversial, that might be a good thing in terms of marketing.
(If it makes you feel any better: it sounds to me like you know in your heart that your vision does not come from a place of hatred or prejudice. If you choose to allow yourself to care about what other people think, this is the Gold Standard. Again: just go ahead and write your book. Frankly, I think that your biggest future issue might be differentiating between genuine and valid constructive criticism, and unqualified criticism based on someone's kneejerk reaction to any random racial theme you write about. So: make sure you find a good editor / proofreader).
posted by doctor tough love at 12:09 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Specific to the scenario you present: 500 years in the future? Your guess is as good as mine or anyone's. Just go ahead and do it.
Heck, if it turns out to be controversial, that might be a good thing in terms of marketing.
(If it makes you feel any better: it sounds to me like you know in your heart that your vision does not come from a place of hatred or prejudice. If you choose to allow yourself to care about what other people think, this is the Gold Standard. Again: just go ahead and write your book. Frankly, I think that your biggest future issue might be differentiating between genuine and valid constructive criticism, and unqualified criticism based on someone's kneejerk reaction to any random racial theme you write about. So: make sure you find a good editor / proofreader).
posted by doctor tough love at 12:09 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Learning to give up things that aren't yours (ours) without fuss is part of dismantling white privilege.
If white people are only allowed to write about white people then that's basically saying that no white people can write realistic far-future scifi ever, given that everyone is eventually gonna be various shades of brown.
posted by Jacqueline at 1:12 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
If white people are only allowed to write about white people then that's basically saying that no white people can write realistic far-future scifi ever, given that everyone is eventually gonna be various shades of brown.
posted by Jacqueline at 1:12 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
As a 20-something queer woman of color, who is tired of looking at white people on the screens and white people in my books and being in their psyches all the time, write the book. Who says white people only have to write white people? That is reproducing white supremacy in content creation form. Cis white guys write all the time about their female characters in the male gaze (and get Pulitzers for it). But that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be female characters, but it means that they need to check themselves and write more honestly and truthfully, rather than just from their perspective.
You just have to be conscious and remember that they are people with their own histories, traumas, joys, and wants and needs, who face societal and institutional barriers even after long they have fallen. They are not stereotypes, they are not tokens, they don't have to be virtous and they don't have to be evil. They deserve a full fledged treatment of their consciousness, like any other character, with an interesting storyline and challenges. You also have blank spots, but you challenging them will make you a better writer.
Also, if you have people of color friends or queer friends or other marginalized folks, and they express a desire to write or do creative work or hold themselves back, be supportive. A way of addressing your white privilege/guilt is also making a conscious effort t support a network of creators, whose voices are shut out of the mainstream, and have faced many obstacles and may not even see it as an option.
There's also tons of resources on tumblr, I'll link some below:
http://writeworld.org/post/38865619233/a-few-tips-and-resources-for-writing-characters-of
http://writingwithcolor.tumblr.com
http://keyboardsmashwriters.tumblr.com/post/40742543949/additional-tips-on-writing-poc-characters
http://readingwithavengeance.tumblr.com/post/110356509198/what-white-writers-worry-about-when-writing-poc
posted by yueliang at 2:18 PM on July 12, 2015 [14 favorites]
You just have to be conscious and remember that they are people with their own histories, traumas, joys, and wants and needs, who face societal and institutional barriers even after long they have fallen. They are not stereotypes, they are not tokens, they don't have to be virtous and they don't have to be evil. They deserve a full fledged treatment of their consciousness, like any other character, with an interesting storyline and challenges. You also have blank spots, but you challenging them will make you a better writer.
Also, if you have people of color friends or queer friends or other marginalized folks, and they express a desire to write or do creative work or hold themselves back, be supportive. A way of addressing your white privilege/guilt is also making a conscious effort t support a network of creators, whose voices are shut out of the mainstream, and have faced many obstacles and may not even see it as an option.
There's also tons of resources on tumblr, I'll link some below:
http://writeworld.org/post/38865619233/a-few-tips-and-resources-for-writing-characters-of
http://writingwithcolor.tumblr.com
http://keyboardsmashwriters.tumblr.com/post/40742543949/additional-tips-on-writing-poc-characters
http://readingwithavengeance.tumblr.com/post/110356509198/what-white-writers-worry-about-when-writing-poc
posted by yueliang at 2:18 PM on July 12, 2015 [14 favorites]
This may be controversial, but I think you need to go for your gut instinct. If this is a story you need to tell, tell it.
Fiction is about creating characters that aren't you. I have a big problem with the idea that somebody from any one group simply cannot write a story about another group. People of any ethnicity are free to write stories about people of any other ethnicity, people of any gender are free to write stories about people of any other gender, etc. All that matters is if the stories are good, and you won't know if it's good until you write it. If you have passion for this project and it feels like you need to write it, you should definitely write it. Don't shut yourself down with a lot of preemptive guilt.
I can see potential problems with the kinship family system you describe. It's worth questioning stuff like that. There are special considerations and risks, and it's good to analyze your story for any bad tropes. But try to take your own white lady-ness out of the equation, think of the best story you can and be true to it.
I think it's definitely worth talking to POC for their take, if they are people who are not automatically offended by the idea of a white person writing about POC. If they are, you'll never please them and there's not much point trying to budge them. But if somebody is willing to believe that somebody like you is capable of writing a story like this, it could be a very good idea to get their feedback. They can tell you if the story feels real to them.
Almost anything you write is potentially offensive to somebody somewhere. Even children's books get banned and burned. Just write the best story you can, and if it's good enough and feels true enough, your ethnicity won't matter. In that case, you will probably have many more POC fans than detractors.
And remember, this is sci-fi so you could always just set it on planet Mungo-6 and make everybody blue.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:45 PM on July 12, 2015
Fiction is about creating characters that aren't you. I have a big problem with the idea that somebody from any one group simply cannot write a story about another group. People of any ethnicity are free to write stories about people of any other ethnicity, people of any gender are free to write stories about people of any other gender, etc. All that matters is if the stories are good, and you won't know if it's good until you write it. If you have passion for this project and it feels like you need to write it, you should definitely write it. Don't shut yourself down with a lot of preemptive guilt.
I can see potential problems with the kinship family system you describe. It's worth questioning stuff like that. There are special considerations and risks, and it's good to analyze your story for any bad tropes. But try to take your own white lady-ness out of the equation, think of the best story you can and be true to it.
I think it's definitely worth talking to POC for their take, if they are people who are not automatically offended by the idea of a white person writing about POC. If they are, you'll never please them and there's not much point trying to budge them. But if somebody is willing to believe that somebody like you is capable of writing a story like this, it could be a very good idea to get their feedback. They can tell you if the story feels real to them.
Almost anything you write is potentially offensive to somebody somewhere. Even children's books get banned and burned. Just write the best story you can, and if it's good enough and feels true enough, your ethnicity won't matter. In that case, you will probably have many more POC fans than detractors.
And remember, this is sci-fi so you could always just set it on planet Mungo-6 and make everybody blue.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:45 PM on July 12, 2015
This essay by Mary Anne Mohanraj is a good read that touches on this issue.
posted by xenization at 5:42 AM on July 13, 2015
posted by xenization at 5:42 AM on July 13, 2015
As I've been thinking about this, I've been thinking about several of the comments here that have said that men write women characters all the time, and I've been wondering whether this is really a good parallel to your situation.
I was thinking - I read many male authors who write women characters, but I would find it distinctly odd if a man wrote a future-US SF novel set in a society where there were only women. It would feel creepy to me, no matter how well done. I've tried to think about why, and I think part of it is that by definition, a dude isn't privy to the conversations that women have among themselves, and while you can get a certain amount of that from reading and research, there's usually something a little off when a whole book hinges on a male writer writing conversations among women. Just as white people, by definition, aren't privy to conversations by people of color among themselves. I think it's possible for research and using your brain to carry you through writing some of these conversations well, but a whole book is going to be way more difficult.
I'm going to say that science fiction doesn't get anyone off the hook, too, because science fiction (especially medium-near future SF) can't be detached from us now. Even if you set it on a gas giant five million years in the future, you'd still be writing - from an angle - about how humans think of human interactions. (You can see this by reading some of the SF novels that do excellent jobs of writing truly weird aliens - The Algebraist by Ian Banks, Embassytown by China Mieville, some of Delany's stuff...Suzette Hayden Elgin explores some of these ideas in the otherwise squicky and ressentiment-driven Mother Tongue. Even those books - where the authors are writing as far as possible from regular humans - can't be read except in terms of human relationships.) If you're writing about actual humans, I think it's very difficult to write far future SF that is completely detached from present reality - at the very least, your reader will be from the present, and if you postulate, like, a totally non-racist far, far future society, you're going to end up unconsciously writing things about the present and then saying that they are non-racist, and that will be disturbing. Read Marge Piercy's interesting, influential and also somewhat problematic 1970s novel Woman On The Edge Of Time if you don't believe me. Piercy writes a future non-racist utopia as one plot arc and it reads really weird. It's a neat book in many ways, but you can't look at it without being struck by how strange and reified the racial politics are. (I think she's a fascinating author and I have all her books; I'm not trying to slam her. She was writing a left, anti-racist SF novel in the 1970s and it's still weird, is all I'm saying.)
I was also thinking about how I find certain stories creepy where the male writers are obviously checking a box - there's a Cory Doctorow story about a chubby gamer girl (she gets thin - muscular and not skinny, but thin! Just like all those fat girl stories from the eighties, helpfully reminding us that you can't be happy or successful unless you are thin!) by the end of the story. It's very clear that Doctorow thinks he's very, very good indeed for writing this sensitive story about a chubby young woman, and to my mind it is an awful story full of misogyny. It passes the Bechdel test handily, and it gives me the creeps.
I would be worried, as a white writer, about my potential for doing this if I were writing characters of color as the only primary viewpoint characters.
You might find Sarah Schulman's novel Shimmer of interest - Shulman is white and two of the main plot arcs in the book are about characters of color, one of whom narrates. It's an interesting book (and seems to me to derive in part from James Baldwin's Another Country) but to me there's always been something sort of thin and weird - a bit formulaic - about those two plot arcs and the dialogue in them. They come across as very stiff and a bit didactic. I really, really like Sarah Schulman and I basically like this novel, but I think it's a great illustration of the perils of being even a very good, very smart, very right-on white (in Schulman's case Jewish; I think she'd say she's white and Jewish if asked) writer.
posted by Frowner at 6:59 AM on July 13, 2015
I was thinking - I read many male authors who write women characters, but I would find it distinctly odd if a man wrote a future-US SF novel set in a society where there were only women. It would feel creepy to me, no matter how well done. I've tried to think about why, and I think part of it is that by definition, a dude isn't privy to the conversations that women have among themselves, and while you can get a certain amount of that from reading and research, there's usually something a little off when a whole book hinges on a male writer writing conversations among women. Just as white people, by definition, aren't privy to conversations by people of color among themselves. I think it's possible for research and using your brain to carry you through writing some of these conversations well, but a whole book is going to be way more difficult.
I'm going to say that science fiction doesn't get anyone off the hook, too, because science fiction (especially medium-near future SF) can't be detached from us now. Even if you set it on a gas giant five million years in the future, you'd still be writing - from an angle - about how humans think of human interactions. (You can see this by reading some of the SF novels that do excellent jobs of writing truly weird aliens - The Algebraist by Ian Banks, Embassytown by China Mieville, some of Delany's stuff...Suzette Hayden Elgin explores some of these ideas in the otherwise squicky and ressentiment-driven Mother Tongue. Even those books - where the authors are writing as far as possible from regular humans - can't be read except in terms of human relationships.) If you're writing about actual humans, I think it's very difficult to write far future SF that is completely detached from present reality - at the very least, your reader will be from the present, and if you postulate, like, a totally non-racist far, far future society, you're going to end up unconsciously writing things about the present and then saying that they are non-racist, and that will be disturbing. Read Marge Piercy's interesting, influential and also somewhat problematic 1970s novel Woman On The Edge Of Time if you don't believe me. Piercy writes a future non-racist utopia as one plot arc and it reads really weird. It's a neat book in many ways, but you can't look at it without being struck by how strange and reified the racial politics are. (I think she's a fascinating author and I have all her books; I'm not trying to slam her. She was writing a left, anti-racist SF novel in the 1970s and it's still weird, is all I'm saying.)
I was also thinking about how I find certain stories creepy where the male writers are obviously checking a box - there's a Cory Doctorow story about a chubby gamer girl (she gets thin - muscular and not skinny, but thin! Just like all those fat girl stories from the eighties, helpfully reminding us that you can't be happy or successful unless you are thin!) by the end of the story. It's very clear that Doctorow thinks he's very, very good indeed for writing this sensitive story about a chubby young woman, and to my mind it is an awful story full of misogyny. It passes the Bechdel test handily, and it gives me the creeps.
I would be worried, as a white writer, about my potential for doing this if I were writing characters of color as the only primary viewpoint characters.
You might find Sarah Schulman's novel Shimmer of interest - Shulman is white and two of the main plot arcs in the book are about characters of color, one of whom narrates. It's an interesting book (and seems to me to derive in part from James Baldwin's Another Country) but to me there's always been something sort of thin and weird - a bit formulaic - about those two plot arcs and the dialogue in them. They come across as very stiff and a bit didactic. I really, really like Sarah Schulman and I basically like this novel, but I think it's a great illustration of the perils of being even a very good, very smart, very right-on white (in Schulman's case Jewish; I think she'd say she's white and Jewish if asked) writer.
posted by Frowner at 6:59 AM on July 13, 2015
Speaking solely for myself, a black (and queer) American person who writes, I say go for it.
It appears that you have identified, analyzed, and are actively engaged with your subject position; that you are immersed in your research; are aware of the many dangers and pitfalls of writing the story; are sensitive to its nuances and potential negative tropes; and are committed to approaching the subject matter with compassion and care. My one suggestion is that you do engage with a number of people of color to get their criticism on your world building and characterizations and various tropes you might use.
Ultimately, of course, should you decide to write this novel, other people having my subject position may indeed find your choice to be problematic. Depending upon your execution of the story, I might ultimately agree or wince in spots, if I happen to read it. But what you have written in this AskMe signals to me that you will do your very best as a writer confronted with very challenging materials, which speaking again for myself, matters a lot.
posted by skye.dancer at 8:21 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
It appears that you have identified, analyzed, and are actively engaged with your subject position; that you are immersed in your research; are aware of the many dangers and pitfalls of writing the story; are sensitive to its nuances and potential negative tropes; and are committed to approaching the subject matter with compassion and care. My one suggestion is that you do engage with a number of people of color to get their criticism on your world building and characterizations and various tropes you might use.
Ultimately, of course, should you decide to write this novel, other people having my subject position may indeed find your choice to be problematic. Depending upon your execution of the story, I might ultimately agree or wince in spots, if I happen to read it. But what you have written in this AskMe signals to me that you will do your very best as a writer confronted with very challenging materials, which speaking again for myself, matters a lot.
posted by skye.dancer at 8:21 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Write it. Write it quickly, while it is fresh, without any more reading about the ethics or privilege or PC-ness. Then, when it is all done, THEN you take a serious, hard look at the ethical and race questions. I suspect there will be very few, if any, issues reasonable people would object to. But do run it by a focus group, just to make sure.
posted by Jacen at 12:43 PM on July 13, 2015
posted by Jacen at 12:43 PM on July 13, 2015
I agree with Jacen, above - write the whole thing, get your enthusiasm out there on paper, and then think about what to do with it. You may decide to use a different setting or culture that you know better. You may make other decisions that don't occur to you until you've really immersed yourself in the story.
At that point, if you're still going with your original decisions, I really recommend getting people from a black perspective to go through it, especially to point out small oversights. For example, as a comics-reading woman, I get annoyed when male creators show women characters going around town without a bag or purse. That doesn't match any woman I know, and it often comes from the male perspective of having clothes with adequate pockets. I can picture other small details of authenticity possibly getting missed in your story, e.g., hair care routines among family members.
posted by cadge at 1:06 PM on July 13, 2015
At that point, if you're still going with your original decisions, I really recommend getting people from a black perspective to go through it, especially to point out small oversights. For example, as a comics-reading woman, I get annoyed when male creators show women characters going around town without a bag or purse. That doesn't match any woman I know, and it often comes from the male perspective of having clothes with adequate pockets. I can picture other small details of authenticity possibly getting missed in your story, e.g., hair care routines among family members.
posted by cadge at 1:06 PM on July 13, 2015
You may be interested to read The Years of Rice and Salt by Kim Stanley Robinson. It's an alternate history (what if 99% of white people had been wiped out by the Black Plague?), written by a white-appearing man (although I don't know how he identifies).
I think that writers make stuff up, and then send it out into the world, and then they deal with the criticism (with varying degrees of gracefulness). If you decide to move forward, I'd suggest you come up with your answers to the questions people will ask you, and practice them with your friends who are people of color. Good luck!
posted by acridrabbit at 2:36 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think that writers make stuff up, and then send it out into the world, and then they deal with the criticism (with varying degrees of gracefulness). If you decide to move forward, I'd suggest you come up with your answers to the questions people will ask you, and practice them with your friends who are people of color. Good luck!
posted by acridrabbit at 2:36 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've been thinking about this question a lot and taking a look at people's thoughts on race and The Hunger Games series might be useful to you. Suzanne Collins is white, but many of the major characters in her books are POC. She's gotten plenty of flack about stuff in her books but I haven't seen complaints about her depiction of a diverse future. (The movies are another story...)
posted by chaiminda at 8:33 AM on July 14, 2015
posted by chaiminda at 8:33 AM on July 14, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by SemiSalt at 6:32 AM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]