Are there rules for coin choice in returning change from machines?
July 3, 2015 9:28 AM Subscribe
A person on FaceBook has pondered why self-service checkouts always return two 20p and one 10p coin (UK obviously) as opposed to a single 50P coin.
Which led me to wonder - is there a general approach for choice of returned coins in programming coin-operated machines?
Do you get rid of the lower-value shrapnel first? Or do you try to strike a balance somehow to ensure availability of most combinations of returned values?
Some of those coin accepters can recognize and accept more coin types than they can sort and dispense. For example, one we have at work has separate bins for 25 cent and 5 cent coins with machinery to give these out as change. Everything else it'll take (10 cent, $1 and $2) all goes together in a big bin that can only be emptied manually.
posted by FishBike at 9:37 AM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by FishBike at 9:37 AM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
The machine probably dumps all received coins into a hopper rather than loading them into its change-maker mechanism. It's probably more expensive to build and stock a change-maker that includes an extra tube and dispenser for 50p coins when you could just dispense 50p worth of other coins instead. I'm sure they'd love to just dispense all change in pennies, but people would complain.
posted by contraption at 9:38 AM on July 3, 2015
posted by contraption at 9:38 AM on July 3, 2015
Do you know for sure that they ever return 50p coins?
Most coin-op machines I've used in the US will dispense the least number of coins possible, which means they need all coin denominations loaded. It's probable that there's some legacy mechanical equipment (or a lineage of legacy equipment that nobody has felt compelled to change because the expense outweighed the value) that only stocked/dispenses 10p and 20p coins. You can imagine that this same hardware or its similar predecessor was used in machines from years ago, prior to inflation, and there hasn't been enough pressure from buyers (of coin-dispensing machines, and consequently from their customers) to change to 50p.
Hardware-wise, the coin-dispensing element is visibly a direct ancestor of the thumb-operated coin-dispensers that you'd see on the belt of someone making change on a bus (or so Monty Python and other older TV tells me-- it's before my time and you're across the pond). Now take all that and put a robust coin sorter on top to stock the dispensers, and that's kinda what you're seeing.
On preview, I definitely agree with FishBike and contraption (relevant name) that one can't take it for granted that coins paid in are definitely being channeled into the payout system in the machine-- sometimes you just have to pay someone to stock coins and that's life.
All told, one of the other market pressures towards a 50p-dispensing system, if it's not now common, is that if more people are putting 50p coins into the machine that go nowhere, it would be easier to sell a self-stocking 50p dispensing machine to reduce the number of trips a human has to take to stock the machine.
posted by Sunburnt at 9:48 AM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Most coin-op machines I've used in the US will dispense the least number of coins possible, which means they need all coin denominations loaded. It's probable that there's some legacy mechanical equipment (or a lineage of legacy equipment that nobody has felt compelled to change because the expense outweighed the value) that only stocked/dispenses 10p and 20p coins. You can imagine that this same hardware or its similar predecessor was used in machines from years ago, prior to inflation, and there hasn't been enough pressure from buyers (of coin-dispensing machines, and consequently from their customers) to change to 50p.
Hardware-wise, the coin-dispensing element is visibly a direct ancestor of the thumb-operated coin-dispensers that you'd see on the belt of someone making change on a bus (or so Monty Python and other older TV tells me-- it's before my time and you're across the pond). Now take all that and put a robust coin sorter on top to stock the dispensers, and that's kinda what you're seeing.
On preview, I definitely agree with FishBike and contraption (relevant name) that one can't take it for granted that coins paid in are definitely being channeled into the payout system in the machine-- sometimes you just have to pay someone to stock coins and that's life.
All told, one of the other market pressures towards a 50p-dispensing system, if it's not now common, is that if more people are putting 50p coins into the machine that go nowhere, it would be easier to sell a self-stocking 50p dispensing machine to reduce the number of trips a human has to take to stock the machine.
posted by Sunburnt at 9:48 AM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: The machine probably dumps all received coins into a hopper rather than loading them into its change-maker mechanism.
The datasheet for NCR's self-checkout machines [pdf] says that it has a recycling coin acceptor/dispenser, but as others suggest, the hardware may recycle some coins and not others because it's easier than having an extra tube for 50ps.
It may also be a byproduct of some self-checkout machines being US-origin products, where there are only four and a half coins actively circulating -- the dollar coin doesn't circulate much, the half-dollar is a rarity -- and the largest coin you'll get in self-checkout change is 25¢. The UK has eight coin values in active circulation, as does the Euro; Canada has seven, including the discontinued 1¢.
posted by holgate at 10:46 AM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
The datasheet for NCR's self-checkout machines [pdf] says that it has a recycling coin acceptor/dispenser, but as others suggest, the hardware may recycle some coins and not others because it's easier than having an extra tube for 50ps.
It may also be a byproduct of some self-checkout machines being US-origin products, where there are only four and a half coins actively circulating -- the dollar coin doesn't circulate much, the half-dollar is a rarity -- and the largest coin you'll get in self-checkout change is 25¢. The UK has eight coin values in active circulation, as does the Euro; Canada has seven, including the discontinued 1¢.
posted by holgate at 10:46 AM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Another thing to consider: when machines give change made up from money they receive, the retailer has to deal with complaints like "your machine gave me foreign coins!" Dealing with these complaints is expensive and troublesome.
Many countries have coins that are the exact size and weight of coins from other countries, and you sometimes get them in your change even though they're not legal tender. In fact, I presume that people who receive foreign coins in their change are likely to try to pass them off in a vending machine, so this would be a regular problem for vendors. So it actually makes sense for vendors to refill machines using coins that they've checked themselves, even though it requires somewhat more trips to empty and restock the dispensers.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:04 PM on July 4, 2015
Many countries have coins that are the exact size and weight of coins from other countries, and you sometimes get them in your change even though they're not legal tender. In fact, I presume that people who receive foreign coins in their change are likely to try to pass them off in a vending machine, so this would be a regular problem for vendors. So it actually makes sense for vendors to refill machines using coins that they've checked themselves, even though it requires somewhat more trips to empty and restock the dispensers.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:04 PM on July 4, 2015
Just anecdotally, for 5-6 years, I've used the vending machine at work to convert my Euro 20c, 10c, and 5c into 50c coins. I'd just load all my shrapnel in then push the cancel button and out would come 50c coins (Max I ever did was around 8.50 euros in shrapnel). I'd only do it every couple of months. Within the last month however, the machine just gives me back the same coins as I put in, even if I put in just 20, 20, 10 or several euros worth of small coins. Weird.
posted by guy72277 at 4:23 AM on July 7, 2015
posted by guy72277 at 4:23 AM on July 7, 2015
« Older Why don't I get my forwarded emails? | How do I handle this interview/job offer situation... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:36 AM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]