Can I eat this? Berry edition
July 1, 2015 11:49 AM Subscribe
I found a huge brambling thicket of black raspberries the other day. I want to pick them but am worried about where I found them: an old industrial site. What are my next steps?
Hooray, a legit "Can I eat this?" question! I am now a true Mefite.
I found a huge thicket of black raspberries while out walking my dog. I am a fan of black raspberries and have picked them in the wild many times before. But this thicket is in an old industrial area near my house in the Cities. Are they safe to eat?
I would have zero qualms about picking these in the wild, but I feel like I should be careful here. The industrial site is currently abandoned on one side and has an auto repair shop on the other. The field nearby (maybe 50 feet away at the closest?) was sprayed about 6 weeks ago.
Should I call the City? What should I ask? When they respond, how do I weigh their response to decide whether or not it's okay to pick and eat the berries? I don't even know WHAT to ask, let alone what to do with the information they give me. If it is something like "Yeah, the ground has been saturated with plutonium" of course I will not eat the berries. If it is something like "The auto business has been there for 20 years and before that it was a plastic bag factory", then what do I do with that information?
FWIW, I would probably make jam out of them so at least they would be boiled.
I suppose time is of the essence because the berries are getting ripe and I want to get my hands on them ASAP.
Hooray, a legit "Can I eat this?" question! I am now a true Mefite.
I found a huge thicket of black raspberries while out walking my dog. I am a fan of black raspberries and have picked them in the wild many times before. But this thicket is in an old industrial area near my house in the Cities. Are they safe to eat?
I would have zero qualms about picking these in the wild, but I feel like I should be careful here. The industrial site is currently abandoned on one side and has an auto repair shop on the other. The field nearby (maybe 50 feet away at the closest?) was sprayed about 6 weeks ago.
Should I call the City? What should I ask? When they respond, how do I weigh their response to decide whether or not it's okay to pick and eat the berries? I don't even know WHAT to ask, let alone what to do with the information they give me. If it is something like "Yeah, the ground has been saturated with plutonium" of course I will not eat the berries. If it is something like "The auto business has been there for 20 years and before that it was a plastic bag factory", then what do I do with that information?
FWIW, I would probably make jam out of them so at least they would be boiled.
I suppose time is of the essence because the berries are getting ripe and I want to get my hands on them ASAP.
When I've read about eating things from contaminated soil (usually lead), it's almost always cautioned about tubers or other root crops, not fruiting plants. And even then the advice is just to wash the root crop really well and perhaps even peel it. When you say the field nearby was sprayed--for what? Mosquitoes?
Also, if something bad enough was going on at that site: you wouldn't be able to access it.
I'd eat 'em up.
posted by resurrexit at 11:56 AM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, if something bad enough was going on at that site: you wouldn't be able to access it.
I'd eat 'em up.
posted by resurrexit at 11:56 AM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Your likely best bet is to take a soil sample of the soil where the thicket resides, then send it off to an agricultural extension or professional testing service that will test for soil contaminants like lead, arsenic, and other pollutants.
posted by Karaage at 11:56 AM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Karaage at 11:56 AM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: The field nearby is a park - soccer field, etc. I assume it was sprayed to make the grass grow greener.
posted by Elly Vortex at 12:01 PM on July 1, 2015
posted by Elly Vortex at 12:01 PM on July 1, 2015
I wouldn't. Those sprays can travel quite far and there's a connection between pesticide exposure and neurological conditions (such as Parkinson's) so I'd be kind of wary.
posted by Aranquis at 12:13 PM on July 1, 2015
posted by Aranquis at 12:13 PM on July 1, 2015
Best answer: Odds are very good that if you do ask the city, the city will look at you and go "Hunh?"
The better place to check for records about this property is your state environmental agency -- many of them have online databases, for example Minnesota's What's In My Neighborhood?. That being said, many older industrial sites have been senescent for some time and may not have had the type of assessments that lead to data for state agencies, so even if it's not listed, there still could be contaminants.
Whether the berries will take up pollution depends on what's there. Significant radioactive pollution is relatively rare in the US (thank goodness) but old industrial sites (and auto repair shops, esp. ones that have been around for a while) can frequently mean metals or PCBs or PAHs in shallow soil. This isn't really my area, but casual googling does suggest that berries have in some cases been shown to pick up at least some heavy metals.
Personally, I work in the environmental assessment industry and I wouldn't eat these berries. That being said, if you do decide to go for it, make sure you wash the berries well to remove any dirt or dust, as dirt on the fruit or vegetable being consumed is frequently the primary source of exposure in these cases.
posted by pie ninja at 12:15 PM on July 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
The better place to check for records about this property is your state environmental agency -- many of them have online databases, for example Minnesota's What's In My Neighborhood?. That being said, many older industrial sites have been senescent for some time and may not have had the type of assessments that lead to data for state agencies, so even if it's not listed, there still could be contaminants.
Whether the berries will take up pollution depends on what's there. Significant radioactive pollution is relatively rare in the US (thank goodness) but old industrial sites (and auto repair shops, esp. ones that have been around for a while) can frequently mean metals or PCBs or PAHs in shallow soil. This isn't really my area, but casual googling does suggest that berries have in some cases been shown to pick up at least some heavy metals.
Personally, I work in the environmental assessment industry and I wouldn't eat these berries. That being said, if you do decide to go for it, make sure you wash the berries well to remove any dirt or dust, as dirt on the fruit or vegetable being consumed is frequently the primary source of exposure in these cases.
posted by pie ninja at 12:15 PM on July 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
A soil sample? Call the city? Poppycock I say! Eat the berries. I bet they will be delicious!
posted by chevyvan at 12:16 PM on July 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by chevyvan at 12:16 PM on July 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'd wash the berries well and eat them.
posted by Fig at 12:22 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Fig at 12:22 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I eat things that are left out that other MeFites would be horrified by. I would not eat these berries. Possible industrial pollution, heavy metals, and pesticides used for non-food plants are way scarier than bacterial food poisoning to me (obviously not talking about deadly strains of E. coli, etc).
posted by quince at 12:25 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by quince at 12:25 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Near a park? I'd call that probably a worse thing than the industrial site: in a park they'd be spraying both for weed-suppression and for bug-killing, and like lots of folks say above: berries soak that shit up. As for the old industrial site: any clue what kind of work went on there? That'd make it easier to guesstimate the kinds of chemicals in the ground and groundwater. And, too, how close is the roadway and the vehicle exhaust the berries would also be soaking up?
Sorry, I'd have to give a thumbs down on these.
posted by easily confused at 12:42 PM on July 1, 2015
Sorry, I'd have to give a thumbs down on these.
posted by easily confused at 12:42 PM on July 1, 2015
The good folks at Brooklyn College will screen the soil for lead and other heavy metals for $35 with a 1-2 week turnaround time. That said, the repair shop makes me worry about benzene, toluene, xylene and other chemicals associated with cars that no commercially available soil test is going to detect.
I'd err on the side of caution and either eat only a small amount or avoid them altogether.
posted by ryanshepard at 12:45 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd err on the side of caution and either eat only a small amount or avoid them altogether.
posted by ryanshepard at 12:45 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
In our part of SMPLS - an old/active industrial area - there were arsenic spumes and you have to test the soil before gardening, then do raised-bed if your soil isn't good. On the theory that your part of town probably isn't any better, I would give these a miss.
posted by Frowner at 12:46 PM on July 1, 2015
posted by Frowner at 12:46 PM on July 1, 2015
Don't, like, bake a pie out of them, but for god's sake, think about all the insane chemicals you're already exposed to on a daily basis and the fact that you will die in the next 5 decades or so, and just eat a handful of delicious wild berries with a smile on your face. Geez guys.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:52 PM on July 1, 2015
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:52 PM on July 1, 2015
...I think the fact you found a huge thicket of black raspberries untouched is your clue that other foragers have turned these down.
posted by glasseyes at 1:06 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by glasseyes at 1:06 PM on July 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would eat them in a heartbeat, but I'm 60 years old, so not overly stressed about long-term consequences. Might not feed them to a child.
posted by she's not there at 1:14 PM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by she's not there at 1:14 PM on July 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: IAARA, IANYRA (I am a risk assessor, I am not your risk assessor). The chances that the city would be able to tell you anything about the soil contaminants, contaminant concentrations, or the resulting risk to human health from plant uptake are slim-to-none.
In order to have risk you need 1) a hazard (likely there are some contaminants in that soil), 2) a receptor (you), 3) an exposure route (berries could take up some contamination that you could then eat), and 4) a dose. It's that 4th item that seems weakest here.
How many gallons of blackberries do you think you can get out of this thicket? Even if they do take up metals, could you eat enough of them to get a significant dose? Most environmental risk assessments these days have moved away from looking at plant uptake because it isn't often a big contributor to risk from contaminants in soil (especially for those otherwise exposed to the soil, ie if one were gardening in it often).
I would not feed these berries to children, because metals are often bad for neurodevelopment and are among the chemicals most often shown to be taken up into produce, so that just seems like the safest choice. But I would eat them myself without compunction. It all comes down to your tolerance for risk and your estimation of what the risk here might be.
I would definitely wash all harvests thoroughly - pie ninja is absolutely correct that washing is one of the most important ways to reduce risk from soil particles and dust.
posted by ldthomps at 1:30 PM on July 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
In order to have risk you need 1) a hazard (likely there are some contaminants in that soil), 2) a receptor (you), 3) an exposure route (berries could take up some contamination that you could then eat), and 4) a dose. It's that 4th item that seems weakest here.
How many gallons of blackberries do you think you can get out of this thicket? Even if they do take up metals, could you eat enough of them to get a significant dose? Most environmental risk assessments these days have moved away from looking at plant uptake because it isn't often a big contributor to risk from contaminants in soil (especially for those otherwise exposed to the soil, ie if one were gardening in it often).
I would not feed these berries to children, because metals are often bad for neurodevelopment and are among the chemicals most often shown to be taken up into produce, so that just seems like the safest choice. But I would eat them myself without compunction. It all comes down to your tolerance for risk and your estimation of what the risk here might be.
I would definitely wash all harvests thoroughly - pie ninja is absolutely correct that washing is one of the most important ways to reduce risk from soil particles and dust.
posted by ldthomps at 1:30 PM on July 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
I should note for completeness that you also need to know the toxicity of your contaminants. For our purposes, I'm assuming that the toxic contaminants are most likely to be metals, which do have published toxicity values and studies about plant uptake. The usual range of metals concentrations found at contaminated sites could could be a risk for gardening, but I'm assuming that because your foraging will yield a relatively low quantity of food, that the risk is relatively low.
posted by ldthomps at 1:52 PM on July 1, 2015
posted by ldthomps at 1:52 PM on July 1, 2015
The city of Minneapolis will test your soil for free. They also have a PDF called A Gardener's Guide to Healthy Soil which has some advice on contaminants and minimizing risk as well as a list of labs that will perform more detailed analysis.
posted by clockwork at 2:20 PM on July 1, 2015
posted by clockwork at 2:20 PM on July 1, 2015
I think the answer to this depends on *your* general attitude to risk and your current consumption patterns: if you regularly buy organic and are concerned about your health, you shouldn't eat the berries. If you buy conventional produce and are more relaxed about health risks (and are super frugal), you should.
Something you can find out through a small bit of research: whether this is or was a superfund site. There have also been a number of studies done on "urban gardens" that show a very high level of lead and other contaminants in produce grown in urban areas. But, in the end, it comes down to your attitude toward risk.
posted by girl flaneur at 3:49 PM on July 1, 2015
Something you can find out through a small bit of research: whether this is or was a superfund site. There have also been a number of studies done on "urban gardens" that show a very high level of lead and other contaminants in produce grown in urban areas. But, in the end, it comes down to your attitude toward risk.
posted by girl flaneur at 3:49 PM on July 1, 2015
I wouldn't. Odds are they're probably fine, but I worked doing environmental remediation in NJ, and nearly every industrial site has at least one of, or some combination of the following in soil and/or groundwater:
-Heavy metals (Lead, Chromium, etc.)
-Arsenic
-Various flavors of oil (Fuel oil #2 is very common)
-Volatile organic compounds (VOCs like Benzene)
-Chlorinated volatile organic compounds (CVOCs, like Trichloroethene and Tetrachloroethene, TCE & PCE, both very common) - and as an aside, nearly every bad compound can be made worse by chlorinating it)
-Pesticides
-Poly Chlorinated Biphenyls (PCBs)
-Semi volatile organic compounds (SVOCs not as bad as the regular VOCs, but still not fun)
Those are just the common ones I can think of.
I was once at a job site I knew to have VOCs, and I was THIS close to eating a raspberry I saw there. Then I remembered where I was and thought better of it.
For the record, boiling would help some - enough boiling would cook off the VOCs, for example, but I don't know how much boiling you would have to do. And that wouldn't help for the heavy metals.
That having been said, I don't really know if plants - specifically raspberries - would take up these compounds or metals, because I'm not a botanist, but frankly, I would be surprised if there was any specific literature about raspberries taking up these compounds at all. I do know that many plants are capable of it and have been used to remediate soils (Fungi, also), but when they do, it stays in the plant - nobody ate those plants/fungi, they just incinerated them.
posted by Strudel at 5:30 PM on July 1, 2015
-Heavy metals (Lead, Chromium, etc.)
-Arsenic
-Various flavors of oil (Fuel oil #2 is very common)
-Volatile organic compounds (VOCs like Benzene)
-Chlorinated volatile organic compounds (CVOCs, like Trichloroethene and Tetrachloroethene, TCE & PCE, both very common) - and as an aside, nearly every bad compound can be made worse by chlorinating it)
-Pesticides
-Poly Chlorinated Biphenyls (PCBs)
-Semi volatile organic compounds (SVOCs not as bad as the regular VOCs, but still not fun)
Those are just the common ones I can think of.
I was once at a job site I knew to have VOCs, and I was THIS close to eating a raspberry I saw there. Then I remembered where I was and thought better of it.
For the record, boiling would help some - enough boiling would cook off the VOCs, for example, but I don't know how much boiling you would have to do. And that wouldn't help for the heavy metals.
That having been said, I don't really know if plants - specifically raspberries - would take up these compounds or metals, because I'm not a botanist, but frankly, I would be surprised if there was any specific literature about raspberries taking up these compounds at all. I do know that many plants are capable of it and have been used to remediate soils (Fungi, also), but when they do, it stays in the plant - nobody ate those plants/fungi, they just incinerated them.
posted by Strudel at 5:30 PM on July 1, 2015
Response by poster: Thank you all for your answers. I've decided to let the berries go to the birds.
I did eat a handful the other day before posting my question. They were good, and I have not sprouted antennae or extra limbs yet. I will keep my eye out for neighborhood birds with glowing wings or extra beaks.
My father-in-law just brought over three ice cream buckets full of cherries, so now I have a different berry situation on my hands. :-)
posted by Elly Vortex at 10:21 AM on July 2, 2015
I did eat a handful the other day before posting my question. They were good, and I have not sprouted antennae or extra limbs yet. I will keep my eye out for neighborhood birds with glowing wings or extra beaks.
My father-in-law just brought over three ice cream buckets full of cherries, so now I have a different berry situation on my hands. :-)
posted by Elly Vortex at 10:21 AM on July 2, 2015
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