They say it can't be done: raising the level of water in the toilet bowl

June 29, 2015 11:19 AM

Google says that raising the level of a new 1.6 version toilet bowl (not the tank) cannot be done because the water level is determined by the S-bend design in the porcelain tank. Almost any time I hear "can't be done" it means that "a bit of hacking needs to occur before it can be done".

Wouldn't the water level be raised if I put a big rock in the toilet bowl? Or could I modify the S-bend by adding something to the shape internally to allow for the level of water in the bowl to be higher? This link was helpful to me, but I'm still trying to figure it out: http://www.explainthatstuff.com/howtoiletswork.html
Also, there is nothing wrong with the toilet, no clogs, leaks etc. Thanks for your input!

posted by Arachnophile to Home & Garden (24 answers total)

willing to share why you want the level higher? there might be another solution...
posted by acm at 11:22 AM on June 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

Try pouring a bucket of water into the toilet and you'll see why this won't be easy to do - after a certain amount of extra weight in water is added to the bowl, the toilet simply flushes itself.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:24 AM on June 29, 2015 [5 favorites]

If you put a rock in the toilet bowl it will just use less water to fill the toilet to the same level. If you add something internally you risk clogging up the works.

It would take some Mythbusters-scale tweaking to modify a modern porcelain toilet enough to allow you to raise the water level.

Also, I realize AskMe doesn't really need to know why someone is asking a question but ever since I modified my behavior and became a sit wiper (I was a stander until... the incident.) I have occasionally accidentally dipped my hand in poo water so I have to ask, why would you want to increase the chances that this could happen?
posted by bondcliff at 11:29 AM on June 29, 2015 [7 favorites]

You have a bowl with a hole in the side. Any water you add that is above the hole will drain out.

> Wouldn't the water level be raised if I put a big rock in the toilet bowl?

Yes. But then the water above the hole will drain out immediately.

> Or could I modify the S-bend by adding something to the shape internally to allow for the level of water in the bowl to be higher?

Yes, you can maybe change the hole in your bowl, but keep in mind that you *want* the water to drain out. Changing the hole could impede that, and it sounds like the kind of problem that will be unpleasant to re-re-engineer.
posted by cmiller at 11:39 AM on June 29, 2015 [7 favorites]

Response by poster: Ah, all good answers, thanks! As for the why, it's a bit embarrassing, but it's not the wiping that is the problem, it's that the waste tends to land above the water bowl level, and the flush doesn't flush it down. Even bits of toilet paper from the swirling water get stuck above the water line. Come to think of it, the holes on the upper side of the bowl from which the water emerges during the flush work well at the front but not at the back. Is there a way to make those holes in the back stronger? Perhaps those are clogged? Thanks again!
posted by Arachnophile at 11:40 AM on June 29, 2015

I have a toilet with a far-too-low water level and it gets horrendously skidded up every single time, so that might be the "why".
posted by ftm at 11:40 AM on June 29, 2015 [2 favorites]

The S-bend in a toilet is cast into the porcelain, so there's not going to be any way to change that. Even assuming you could modify that, you would also need to modify the tank because a fuller bowl would require more water to initiate the flush (and without modifying the overall size of the bowl you may end up overflowing it in the flush attempt as all that stored water rushes in to the bowl). So, you would need to do these things:

-Modify S-bend so it is higher
-Increase the tank size to hold more water
-Adjust the valves and floater in the tank to accommodate the extra water (possibly replace these)

Might as well just buy a new toilet at this point.

Is there a way to make those holes in the back stronger? Perhaps those are clogged?

Yes, very likely if you have hard water and don't clean up there frequently. Try scraping them out, and clean under the bowl rim more often to keep the holes clear.
posted by backseatpilot at 11:45 AM on June 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

As for the why, it's a bit embarrassing, but it's not the wiping that is the problem, it's that the waste tends to land above the water bowl level, and the flush doesn't flush it down.

If you're willing to replace the whole thing you might want to google around about this. It's a, um, a thing. Some toilets are better at flushing than others. Even in our house we have one toilet that clears up every bit and another that tends to leave an occasional mess.
posted by bondcliff at 11:45 AM on June 29, 2015

   \           |
    \          |   ____   
     \         |  /  _ \
      \        |_/  / \ \ 
       \___________/  | |
           ^    ^ ^  ^   
           a    b c  d

When the water in the bowl (a) reaches the height of the s-bend (d), it starts a siphon, draining the bowl. This stops when the water level drops to the top of the bottom part of the curve (b), at which point the siphon is broken and all the water before the bend (c) falls back into the bowl. The volume of the bowl (a) doesn't matter for this process, so adding a rock won't help. If you increase the height of d, you'll have to add more water before it starts draining. If you increase the height of b it will stop draining sooner. If you increase the with of c more water will fall back into the bowl when it stops draining.

This is all completely independent of the flush mechanism with the tank. You can see all this by pouring a bucket of water into the bowl (which is really all that happens when you pull the lever on the tank).

If this is all made out of porcelain it would be hard to alter the shape. If you had a U-shaped tube, you could affix it to the top of b, raising the height at which air can be introduced into the s-bend. The problem with this approach is keeping the tube from getting clogged. Another possible approach would be to effectively alter the geometry by tilting the whole toilet forward. While that would increase the post-flush water level, it would probably also result in reduced flush effectiveness, vis-à-vis waste removal.
posted by aubilenon at 11:49 AM on June 29, 2015 [19 favorites]

And if you do google around, you'll find this extremely strange website from American Standard about their technology for dealing with this issue . . . "no one likes a clinger!"
posted by The Bellman at 11:51 AM on June 29, 2015 [5 favorites]

This is precisely why we replaced all the toilets in our house (and our old house, and my parents' house) with Toto Drake Toilets. They simply don't have this problem, absent a serious intestinal issue. And they have never, ever clogged on us, not once.
posted by dpx.mfx at 12:06 PM on June 29, 2015 [8 favorites]

This won't help at all but so far everybody is assuming that the toilet is being mounted horizontally (i.e. level). If the toilet is mounted so the front of the bowl is lower than the back the nominal water level in the bowl will be higher. I would recommend against doing that, and it would be difficult, but it's just an example to think outside the bowl.
posted by achrise at 12:28 PM on June 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

To avoid skidding up the toilet, I put some toilet paper (folded; not waded) along the back of the toilet with part of it touching the water. The water will start wicking up, such that the tp will usually stick until the flush. If the flush won't even remove toilet paper stuck on the back, then first try cleaning the holes at the back of the toilet (they might be clogged (hopefully just with lime)). If it still won't work, that might be time for a new toilet.

<$150 will get a quite reasonable toilet. An extra $5 for a new wax seal and some time on the web will allow you to swap it out. Actually, buy two wax seals; return one if it's not needed.
posted by nobeagle at 12:30 PM on June 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

> Even bits of toilet paper from the swirling water get stuck above the water line.

An obstruction in the s-bend can very effectively lower the water level in the bowl. You often see this when the toilet is only partially clogged. A restriction in the s-bend will also cause a slow flush, which would also manifest the symptom you described.

Remove the toilet and inspect its s-bend from both ends, using a wooden stick or heavy gauge insulated wire (metal can mar your porcelain). It might be a mess. Don't forget to buy a new wax ring for re-installation. Budget 2 trips to the hardware store, and start your work early in the day.
posted by the Real Dan at 12:38 PM on June 29, 2015

The first generation of toilets that met the new standards were pretty lousy at actually flushing, the new ones (by and large) are much better. We just had a new toilet installed - we considered the Drake, but opted for a Kohler Memoir for aesthetic reasons - and it works great. This cost closer to $300 than $150, though. Toto Drakes, which I've heard are also really good, come in a million variants, some from Home Depot are less than $200.
posted by mr vino at 12:39 PM on June 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

A toilet bowl descaler can help with the clogged holes above the bowl. And a toilet brush is also a useful thing to have. It's fairly standard in most European countries I have visited, and it is more or less essential for a standard German toilet.
posted by brianogilvie at 1:04 PM on June 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: Thank you all! Great ideas. I wish I could respond to every single post but then I'd never get my toilet fixed. Much appreciation for your smart, thoughtful and blunt answers.
posted by Arachnophile at 1:07 PM on June 29, 2015

Repeating nobeagle's suggestion: if you replace the toilet, BUY TWO WAX RINGS. Especially if you've never set a commode before.

achrise, you can't shim the toilet because the interface with the waste stack isn't adjustable. The wax ring deforms and the bowl is bolted to the floor, so you'd have to alter the top of the waste stack and the mounting footprint on the floor to achieve an angled contact surface.
posted by a halcyon day at 1:26 PM on June 29, 2015 [2 favorites]

Come to think of it, the holes on the upper side of the bowl from which the water emerges during the flush work well at the front but not at the back. Is there a way to make those holes in the back stronger?

You have used a mirror to check them out, right? Maybe scale or other crud is partially blocking the holes, a stiff brush or other tool to clear it away might be all you need.
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:59 PM on June 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

Also if you're not getting a "strong enough" flush, check the flushing mechanism inside the tank to make sure that the inflow thingie is where it's supposed to be, and try adjusting the float for a little more water per flush. If you google your toilet brand it's pretty easy to find an image of the mechanism inside the tank and see if yours looks like it ought to.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:33 PM on June 29, 2015

Sit further forward on the seat so you're hitting water rather than porcelain.
posted by cecic at 3:08 PM on June 29, 2015

Response by poster: Thanks cecic, that would work until the inevitable occasional explosive event...sorry for the graphic picture. :(
posted by Arachnophile at 10:38 AM on June 30, 2015

What you could do - though I'd never suggest it- you could run the pipe from the bottom of the toilet (from the flange) back up and then down the height of this pipe before it descends again determines the height of the water in the bowl.
But don't do this.
Listen to everyone else.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:41 AM on July 1, 2015

some people keep a long handled brush next to the toilet or under the sink...
posted by at at 11:53 AM on July 1, 2015