Why won't you go to sleep? Question #46233: almost 4 year old version

June 8, 2015 9:42 AM

Our big little man is a few months south of four, he's home with Mom for the summer, and he Will. Not. Nap. He won't even rest. Bed times at the end of the day aren't bad, but for some reason naps are for suckers, and he's no sucker, except without a nap he turns into a tiny terror. How do you deal with your little pistols? Details below the fold.

Our older son will turn 4 in August, but he still needs to nap in the afternoon, otherwise he throwing tantrums when he doesn't get his way, won't listen to adults, and hits people then laughs. When he's rested, he doesn't do this, and he rested better (and acted better) when he went to daycare five days a week.

But now Mrs. filthy light thief is home for the summer, and she's with both big boy Thing #1 and little baby (almost 6 month old) Thing #2. Thing 1 won't really fight going into his bedroom or any of the nap procedures (get tucked in, read a story or two, then the lights get turned off), but then he starts wiggling, kicks off the sheets, pushes all the sheets off the bed, and pretty literally bounces off the walls - kicking, punching, thwacking things on the wall, etc.

What we've tried (and what has failed):

Leaving him alone - he doesn't rest, even after being alone for a few hours like that;

Constant reinforcement that you need to be still to rest - going in to get him to lie back down and stop kicking the walls. He'll rest for a moment, then starts writhing around again, and as this proceeds, he gets more worked up with more parental interaction;

Resting with him - I tried to lead by example yesterday, but I ended up getting poked and prodded after about 15 minutes of relative calm;

Rewarding the good behavior - Mom set up a chart good things for the day, which can lead to a sticker at the end of the day, and enough stickers means something bigger - this doesn't work (yet?), but we'll keep on it;

Setting a timer for an hour - the next attempt to help him realize nap time isn't forever.

His days generally start close to 7 AM, sometimes waking up at 6:30, other times closer to 7:30. Breakfast is between 8 and 9 AM, lunch between 11 and Noon, and the nap process starts between 1 and 1:30 PM. Bed time unfortunately ranges from 6 to 8 PM, depending on how long it takes to get him wound down and into bed. It's hard to make bedtime any earlier, as the days are so light so early, and daylight seems to mean "play time" to Thing 1. Everything else is play, with some PBS in the mornings.

He's potty trained, so he also uses potty breaks as a way to delay naps, and also comes out to tell us he's hungry.

posted by filthy light thief to Health & Fitness (33 answers total)

As someone with a 4-year-old who stopped napping around his fourth birthday.... while I understand he is better behaved in the evenings when he does nap, if he's sleeping 11+ hours at night, he may be getting enough total sleep and aging out of naps. It is a thing that happens. The one thing that I can think of that you haven't tried yet is pushing bedtime a little LATER so that he sleeps less at night and is more tired in the afternoon.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:50 AM on June 8, 2015 [17 favorites]

Is there any chance that "rest time" rather than "nap time" would still give you some of the benefits of a nap, without the fight? My five-year-old son hasn't napped since he was two, but he does a lot better when he gets about an hour after lunch where he's playing quietly and not interacting with anyone. (So much so that his preschool has actually arranged to let him hang out in the office with a board game during this time.) If he doesn't mind the "getting ready for bed" stuff, you could try reading a story and then leaving him alone with some art supplies, an audiobook, legos, etc.
posted by cogitron at 9:52 AM on June 8, 2015

Have you tried reframing it? Rather than Nap Time, it's just Quiet or Reading Time?

One trick we used with our oldest was an appliance timer plugged into a little stained glass butterfly-shaped lamp. When the lamp came on, it was OK to come out. This is how we trained her to stay in her room instead of popping in to see what Mom and Dad were up to at 5AM.
posted by jquinby at 9:52 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

I also have a child who Will. Not. Sleep. Ever. If things don't progress at all, I really recommend www.babysleepsite.com. They changed my life. (And I totally sound like a shill for them, as I've recommended them before, but seriously. Best $150 I ever spent. I think it may have saved my marriage and my sanity).
posted by mrfuga0 at 9:56 AM on June 8, 2015

My older one stopped napping way earlier than that. We just switched it up to "quiet bedroom time". She did start taking real naps again for a while once kindergarten started (I guess it was much more exhausting than preschool was?).
posted by padraigin at 9:56 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

I had a no sleeper, too. I did nap rides. Quiet music, cosy clothes, and no interaction. It wasn't a terrible time for me either. You can see a lot of road in an hour and a half (had to keep driving - if I stopped for more than a moment or 2 two he woke up).
I drove the country side comparing library architecture and scouting out ice cream outings.
posted by ReluctantViking at 10:13 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Naps are dead you now. I'm so sorry. Some people believe that, when you die, naps will be waiting for you in a beautiful bed with clean linens, and then you get to cross into heaven together. (passes kleenex).

Enforced quiet-play-in-your-room-time is an option, though.
posted by Ausamor at 10:16 AM on June 8, 2015 [16 favorites]

As far as actual advice goes, could you switch the PBS in the am with the afternoon quiet time? Does he watch quietly on the couch or whatever? I mean, I get the whole time to yourself aspect of napping, but if it's becoming a struggle, then no one is getting any rest anyway. Could you tell him that TV time will now commence at 1 pm and he gets an hour of (whatever kids watch these days ... I'm assuming something like Peppa Pig or whatever?), but he can only watch it if he lies on the couch quietly? That might be incentive enough to get him to rest and potentially would be soporific enough to put him to sleep (on the couch, but you know, a win is a win).

A thing I learned from our sleep coach is that you need to get them used to the bed/crib as a napping space and a place to play quietly if napping does not happen. So perhaps he can practice sitting on his bed when you are reading to him or when he's playing with his Lego or whenever.
posted by mrfuga0 at 10:29 AM on June 8, 2015

I'm not sure about how you feel about "screen time" - but when I was a kid and a bad napper, my mom would have me watch Sesame Street for an hour. Sometimes I'd sleep, sometimes not, but either way it was rest time.
posted by Toddles at 10:31 AM on June 8, 2015

Our son stopped napping when younger than yours, and I too thought he really -needed- those naps because he was as such a wreck without them. But after a few weeks (three or four), he adjusted; we just had to wait that out. (And whoo boy did bedtime get easier without the naps!)
posted by wyzewoman at 10:32 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

Blackout shades may keep him in bed later so that he's not so much of a terror without a nap. Agreed that this sounds pretty par for the course with nap dropping. It'll be better for him to just let the nap go so that he can adjust his nighttime sleep. Enforced quiet time is a nice idea but, speaking as someone who had a kid just like this, it often does not work. An hour of quiet screen time can be a good alternative.
posted by devinemissk at 10:37 AM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

I think you're in the "yuck zone" - still kind of needs a nap but isn't able to take it. You can move to a slightly later bedtime or earlier wakeup for a while to see if that helps him nap in the afternoon, but I'd bet within a month you'll have a kid who doesn't need to nap and doesn't act out without one.

So I guess my advice kind of boils down to "muscle through it and it'll be over soon". I'd enforce an hour or so of quiet time since that'll be handy to mom and he seems willing to do it right now, possibly keep working on the sticker chart in case it suddenly works, and being consistent but gentle with acting out in the evenings when he's tired. There's nothing you can do to force anyone to sleep at any age, and it really sounds like he can't, even if he still needs it.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 10:40 AM on June 8, 2015

Could there be something missing from the daily routine that was provided at daycare? Would he be better off on a mat on the floor where your wife is doing other things? Does he need more active time in the mornings before nap to get his yayas out?

Perhaps even at daycare he was phasing out of naps but they managed to keep him quiet and laying down for the duration and that did the trick.
posted by vunder at 11:01 AM on June 8, 2015

Another vote for "quiet time". It's a while since my kids were this age so I can't remember exactly how we structured it, but it involved sitting or lying quietly, reading was okay but not screentime I think. YMMV anyway as to what works. I think we also moved bedtime a little later like some others have suggested.
posted by crocomancer at 11:05 AM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

I agree that he is at the normal age -- even possibly on the older side -- to be aging out of naps. The transition is crummy -- cranky kid, yes -- but it passes quickly.
posted by kmennie at 11:14 AM on June 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

My daughter naps like a champ at daycare, but won't nap at home (this weekend she napped on both days. That's probably the first time that's happened in a year). Things that we can do that sometimes work include sitting on my lap while I read her stories in a boring voice, taking her for a walk in the stroller, or going for a drive. Alas, she knows that the purpose of the first two is to get her to nap, so she'll fight them, and the latter does require that we have somewhere to go that is far enough away (transferring her out of the car is iffy).

So, yeah. I hear you.

I like the idea of quiet time and we may try that ourselves. Reinforce the idea that she doesn't have to nap, but it is necessary that she play quietly. Sounds like a good idea.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 11:35 AM on June 8, 2015

My 3.75 year old son is going on several months of naplessness now and he's still kind of a monster in the afternoons. The only way we can consistently get him to rest is for him to fall asleep in the car while driving. Quiet time sometimes work though it's tough because we have to basically shut down the activity in the house because he definitely is not okay with resting in his bed (because God forbid he rest in his room).

I guess I don't have an answer but I'm eagerly anticipating new tricks.
posted by sleeping bear at 11:36 AM on June 8, 2015

Response by poster: Thanks for all the feedback. Unfortunately, we're still (foolishly) looking for nap ideas, because 1) he doesn't actually rest, and 2) his lack of nap or resting seems to lead to him acting out more. And he looks and acts really tired.

If nothing else, the new Plan B (if naps or resting doesn't happen) is that bedtime is really early. We'll see how that goes.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:58 AM on June 8, 2015

We just went through this and it sucks. On the bright side, our kids napped much longer than almost any other kids I know. On the down side, this time sucks. Like yours, my kid still naps at preschool-a combination of peer pressure and much higher levels of physical activity than he gets at home, I think. But he almost never naps at home anymore. Your experience reminds me of our awful transitional period, when he stopped napping but hadn't started sleeping earlier at night, so bedtime was one or two hours of him wandering out and screwing around. We finally got through those painful weeks and now bedtime is so much easier, he falls asleep pretty quickly, and he's much less of an asshole during the evening.

The only other suggestion I'd offer is, if he naps well at school, trying to replicate that environment as closely at home as possible.
posted by purenitrous at 11:59 AM on June 8, 2015

He sounds like he gets physically fidgety. Will he settle down if you read to him? If that works, maybe the modern equivalent of books on tape. To be honest, it is what I do for myself when I have trouble settling down to sleep - I listen to podcasts that are mildly interesting but not too exciting. If keeps my brain focused on the story but allows my body to relax.
posted by metahawk at 12:01 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Have you tried audiobooks? This worked well for both of my daughters. We used anthologies that were at least an hour in length, with the stipulation that they had to stay in their rooms or on their beds until the stories were over. They often fell asleep after one or two stories, and sometimes insisted that the CD player was broken because they didn't hear the rest. You could also try a timer, where, if he can rest quietly on his bed for x time, he can play on his floor afterwards.
posted by SobaFett at 12:04 PM on June 8, 2015

If you're insistent on naps, I wouldn't put him to bed so early. Even if he's a little tired, he's not tired enough to nap, and you can't make him. Our kids that age have not entirely aged out of a nap, and their days are usually 6:-6:30a to 7:30-8p. If they nap they stay up later or don't go to bed as readily. After they're old enough to climb out of a crib and can't be lulled to sleep with a bottle and a blanky, they only nap if they want to, even when they're terrible monsters when they don't nap.
posted by resurrexit at 12:50 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

It's also possible that he was better behaved and/or napped better at daycare because they were wearing him out more. Now that he's home, he's probably not actually doing as much, because, let's face it, one mom is no match for a four year old the same way a team of day care providers is. So my advice is more activity, especially in the morning. Otherwise, drop the nap, start bedtime around six, give it a week, and see if it adjusts.
posted by dpx.mfx at 12:54 PM on June 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

A thing that worked for us in that yucky in-between time with naps was to completely ignore the idea of naps every *other* day, and try for a nap on the other days. Without a nap he was working on a sort of half-a-nap deficit, and he was more likely to nap when it wasn't an every day insistence. Non-nap days would be quieter days in general, nap days would be go-go-go, except for naptime itself.
posted by tchemgrrl at 1:03 PM on June 8, 2015

Since you're still looking for napping ideas, here's one, but you might not like it.

The only way to get my similarly-aged child to nap on the weekends at home is to go for a drive or a stroller walk. This does nothing to help the parent rest and may not be possible with a Thing #2 in the house, but that's all I've got for you. (Actually, I once had success with reading a long book at the the critical moment on the couch, but that is not reliable.) Good luck!
posted by chocotaco at 1:30 PM on June 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

I second the "quiet time" option. I used to say that it was for me. The other thing I did with child no. 2 was I took her to the park and wore that girl out. Take him to the park and he has got to just run and play like crazy. Play chase. Throw balls. Borrow a neighbour's dog and make them both run around. Find stairs and run up and down them. Count them. Not sure you counted right? Count them again. Fortunately, it was a phase. Lots of good ideas here from everyone else, though too.
posted by 3kidsonedog at 1:44 PM on June 8, 2015

It sounds like he needs to get some more stimulation - are there any summer programs for preschoolers in the mornings or afternoons (eg 9-12 or 1-3) that he could participate in? That way, mom & baby could have some time together (and nap!), while the older one can do bigger kid stuff.
posted by mogget at 2:51 PM on June 8, 2015

A boy his age needs massive amounts of stimulation in the mornings to fall out for a nap in the afternoon. Rethink your backyard. Can you send him out in it and watch him from a window? Does he have a wide variety of boy play options outside like dirt, rocks, and sticks? Basically, if he doesn't smell like a wet dog at lunch time, you lose, he isn't going to crash. Opt for some television/movie time in a dark, quiet room for two hours.
posted by myselfasme at 2:54 PM on June 8, 2015

A kid that age may need an astonishing amount of physical activity to be sleepy (not just tired) in the afternoons. I know it can feel impossible to get out of the house with two small people to get ready, but my kids really need some intense physical activity early in the day and late in the afternoon in order to be happy. Like, running, climbing, pushing things around, throwing/kicking balls. At daycare, the combination of physical, social, and intellectual stimulation probably wears him out. Can y'all set up some playdates? Maybe work out a regular kid trade with one of his friends?
posted by linettasky at 6:02 PM on June 8, 2015

It sounds like he's phasing out naps. I'm so sorry. I completely get the urge to preserve naptime and I did this too because naptime is ME time and if naps don't happen, I don't get a break during the day, and oh my heck it was driving me insane. THAT SAID, I would recommend starting to come around to the idea that naps may start to be a thing of the past. (Again. So sorry.)

It's a rough transition because yeah, their behavior when they're not napping is awful (our experience was lots of screaming, throwing things, etc.) so it seems like they still need the nap, and they do, but they just. won't. sleep. It's maddening.

When our son did this at just over age 4 (I know how lucky I am and yes, I cherished that time), we moved bedtime up about an hour and a half to make up for the time he wasn't napping. He was pretty tired by the time bedtime rolled around and woke up at the same time in the mornings.

We also instituted "quiet time" for a while, where I didn't really care what he did in his room but he had to do it quietly for approximately half the length of a regular nap. That was only moderately successful, but it helped ME transition from "days with a nap" to "days with no nap" better because he was out of my hair for a little bit. Best of luck to you!
posted by meggan at 8:14 PM on June 8, 2015

We've kind of been in this territory with our newly minted 4yo for the past few months. He would nap at preschool but not at home on weekends. I think part of it was that he thought we were up having a party without him (it was also an issue at bedtime). One thing that worked was actually going to bed for a nap ourselves (we didn't have the difficulty of having a 2nd child at that point). When he got up and came looking for us we were in bed nodding off and told him to go back to bed. The other thing that has worked most consistently is hard physical exercise (swimming) in the morning. He gets home in time to have lunch and then shuffles off to naptime. Again, we didn't have the 2nd kid's schedule to work around, but maybe your wife can get him out for walks/bike rides/scooter rides in the morning.
posted by vignettist at 10:23 PM on June 8, 2015

Response by poster: Audiobook FTW. Right now, it looks like Where the Wild Things Are and Other Stories read by Tammy Grimes was an instant winner, with Thing #1 falling asleep in minutes, after days of rambunctious "quiet time," which at worst lead to Thing #2 waking up from his own nap.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:01 PM on June 20, 2015

Response by poster: OK, I spoke waaay too soon. Apparently Where the Wild Things Are was too scary, according to Thing #1, who rested for about 30 minutes (hiding in his sheets, so he now says), then thrashed around for 30 minutes. Still, this was a marked improvement over prior efforts as he's not even calm for that long. Tomorrow, we'll try Beatrix Potter, or just some nice, quiet lullaby music.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:29 PM on June 20, 2015