How to enjoy life with a baby?
May 26, 2015 11:59 AM   Subscribe

I'm looking for tips on how to have more fun during the early months of parenting a baby.

My wife and I have a baby – now around eight weeks old. We’re both self-employed, and have pretty flexible work schedules, and both pretty committed to sharing parenting responsibilities as equally as we can. She breastfeeds, we take turns doing shifts looking after the baby.

I’m not yet head-over-heels in love with him, though the bond is growing every day, which is nice, and which makes caring for him a lot more enjoyable. (I expect that bond will continue to grow, as it has so far. I gather it’s not unusually, especially for dads, for this bond to come slowly).

We’re not crazy sleep-deprived. We’re not overwhelmed and stressed out. I’m not asking “how to survive this” as others have. I’m just looking for ways to make these months a little more enjoyable.

( For example: until recently our baby was always happy if taken out in a stroller. I’ve been using those walks to talk to old friends on the phone (when they’re around) or listen to audiobooks (when they’re not). Recenlty, the stroller seems like a less reliable source of comfort to him, which is hard for me…)

The things I miss are: seeing friends, the intellectual stimulation and emotional rewards of getting work done, spending time alone with my wife, getting physical exercise. Ways that I can combine these experiences (or others) with baby-care would be welcome, as would any other tips. What did you do with your baby that helped the experience be more enjoyable?
posted by RedArgyleSock to Human Relations (29 answers total) 20 users marked this as a favorite
 
If baby is no longer a fan of the stroller, have you tried a baby carrier? That's another good way to get those long walks in.
posted by telepanda at 12:04 PM on May 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


I enjoyed taking my newborn baby out, especially once he hit the 2-month mark and received his first round of shots. Do you like museums? Sporting events? Nature walks? With little to no advance prep, you can take a baby almost* anywhere. Have you worn the baby in a carrier yet? Give that a shot (if you don't have one yet, look into getting an Ergo). Great way to calm baby and travel light at the same time.

*Alas, babies are not allowed at live theater. Give my regards to Broadway!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:04 PM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Have you tried wearing your baby in a sling or wrap or other baby carrier while going for walks? My kid was never a fan of the stroller but did really like being carried in a wrap for the first months of his life. Babies at that age are pretty portable, too, and mine did come with us to a few dinner parties and backyard BBQs with friends.

Also, one of the best things a (dad) friend of mine told me was that after 6 months, it just keeps getting better and better. Very true in my experience! His lack of comment on the first six months is very telling, I think.
posted by jillithd at 12:06 PM on May 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


You're past the worst of it.

The "fuck-my-life" traps many of my friends fell into:

1. thinking they couldn't take the baby anywere. You really can, especially if you get it ear-muffs and a baby carrier. 3-7 months is the golden time of baby carriers. Go to bars, go to sporting events, travel, etc, before long that kid will be it's own plane ticket.

2. not trusting babysitters.
If you haven't already; Get that baby sat. Start with an hour or two move on up to evenings. Other people can totally watch your baby. Hell if you're 8 weeks in, chances are they have a lot more expeirence watching a baby than you. This will allow for time to do things you simply can't do with a baby strapped to you and also increase your appreciation of the time you do spend around baby.
posted by French Fry at 12:13 PM on May 26, 2015 [10 favorites]


Unless you have some kinda spine issue, BABY CARRIER! That thing turned my life around. When I started viewing "taking the baby out" as a fun, impulsive thing (because it only required popping the kid in the carrier and a diaper in my back pocket), rather than a Shackleton-esque expedition, I started going EVERYWHERE with the kid, and that's what made things fun. A few times, I actually had to stop and tell myself "Dude, you're wearing a baby, you CANNOT go into that [bar/adult video store/Mapplethorpe exhibition]".

Also, try to hew as closely as possible to a minimal/idle parenting worldview: doesn't matter if the kid is slightly grubby, or slightly too hot/cold, or occasionally has ice cream for dinner, or is out past their bedtime. What matters is that everyone is basically safe and content and fulfilled.
posted by julthumbscrew at 12:13 PM on May 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: (for those who asked: Yes! I have been using the carrier. He loves it a lot. As he gets bigger, and the weather gets warm, it starts to feel a little impractical for very long walks. But it is definitely an awesome thing, and I appreciated any carrier-related tips)
posted by RedArgyleSock at 12:17 PM on May 26, 2015


When you take your baby out in the stroller, do you interact with him at all? Because even a grown adult would bore of excursions outside the home when nobody is paying any attention to them and there's nothing to interact with.

Taking a walk with the kidlet should be a time to explore the world together and not catch up on your personal matters while leaving him alone. He's counting on you to show him things and explain this planet! Even though he's 2 months old and can't speak back...he's listening and watching.

But that's just my experience as a parent.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:21 PM on May 26, 2015 [11 favorites]


Dude, you're wearing a baby, you CANNOT go into that [bar

Eh, depending on the bar / your friends / the time of day, you might want to go into that bar. babyozzy went to so many bars / breweries when she was small. Your child may vary, but ours was comforted by ambient noise and was happy to look around at people / things when she was awake, and very often nodded off once she'd had her fill. Like French Fry, above, I found taking a small baby out fairly easy (especially if you can bottle-feed; ours was a bit tricky in that regard because she really didn't like the bottle at first).

And as far as alone time goes, start working on regular bedtime as soon as it seems your child is ready. We spent a lot of time dealing with a fussy baby in the late evening, and I suspect that if we had pushed a regular bedtime a bit earlier, we all would have been happier.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:22 PM on May 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


When my son was an infant, it was a game changer to realize that we could order food at a restaurant, immediately ask for the check and pay it, and then eat our meal. Not being tied down to 'waiting for the check' was so goddamn rad because if furnace.baby freaked the fuck out in the middle of the restaurant you just get up, and walk away. The servers appreciated it, and upon our hasty exit, the other customers appreciated it too.

And FWIW, I took my son to a number of bars this way. Sometimes very late at night to get him out of the house and to give mama a break. and me a break. It was pretty glorious. At least one of those bars was not a family friendly pub.
posted by furnace.heart at 12:27 PM on May 26, 2015 [17 favorites]


My husband was the at-home parent with our son for the first year. He just went where he wanted to do, with the kid in a sling or backpack. Hardware store, auto supply, wherever. They'd go to the local firehouse, and my husband would point out fire engines and boots and sirens to the largely un-comprehending baby. I know it sounds like you're talking to yourself, but you aren't--your son is listening, even if he doesn't know what he's listening to. So, rather than listen to your headphones or talk on the phone--talk to the kid. Point out the birds, the flowers, the kitty cat on the block. Let him smell the flowers, touch the tree, feel the wind or the shiny metal pointy things in the bins at the store.
You could find a gym with a daycare center attached, or get a babysitter so you can go work out.
posted by Ideefixe at 12:28 PM on May 26, 2015 [6 favorites]


Another vote for using a babysitter. I did not, because I have terrible control issues -- I just didn't trust anyone else with our baby. (Well, except for my husband, but that was no help when what I wanted to do was go out on a date with him, without the baby!) Our kids are all grown up now, but that is one of the parenting things that I regret, looking (way) back.
posted by merejane at 12:36 PM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Do look for a baby wearing /carrier training class. It makes such a difference if you know a little more than just what the internet says about baby carrying and if you can actually try different carriers and which one will suit your body size (and maybe it is different from what fits your wife). If it feels impractial or uncomfortable do some research. Sometimes in big cities baby shops offer classes, or any place that would offer parenting classes.
I tried various ones for the different ages, and it really depends also on your own body size and then age and weight of baby what will be a comfortable and safe way for you to carry the baby. Once you find the way that works for you take baby whereever you go. This wont last forever, for us it was over by about 9 months, he wanted out when awake.

And, I know while this is a need all new parents have, do try not to just yak into the phone while out with the baby. Save it for when she sleeps.
The best part is, it all changes so rapidly. Just when you think it is impossible to go on, something new changes, she learns something, stuffs her fist into your mouth or whatever, and you realise how fast they grow.
posted by 15L06 at 12:47 PM on May 26, 2015


Oh my gosh, yes, get yourself a good ergonomic carrier like a Tula or an Ergo or a Boba and hit the town! I bet your baby is less comforted in the stroller now because he wants to be interacted with a bit more. If he's in a carrier, he can choose his level of interaction - if he's overwhelmed, he can snuggle into you. If he wants action, he can look out at stuff or at you and babble and it's great.

Later, once he's able to sit unassisted, he can go on your back! My husband still prefers to front-carry our 1yo but back carries are SO much more comfortable to me once they get bigger.

You can do workouts wearing a baby! It obviously depends on the kind of workout, but just think of it as a weight belt, haha. Here's a super short video of a mama doing some moves, just as an example. Or you could put the baby on the floor and do pushups and smooch the baby every time you drop down. Since your wife is breastfeeding, have her practice nursing in the carrier and then you can REALLY be on the go - I never got the hang of it with my first kid and with my second I nurse in the carrier all the time. There's videos all over YouTube on how to nurse in a specific carrier.

Babywearing really opens up your world - you can go so many more places than if you had to lug a stroller around. You can pop into a bakery or a shop or someplace you've been meaning to go but haven't yet and you don't have to struggle with where to put the stroller or how to get in and out of the door and oh gosh, can you tell I love babywearing? It's the best.
posted by meggan at 12:51 PM on May 26, 2015


I did love our MEC and REI baby backpacks. We also had a front carrier too, that was rad. And a sling.

Our youngest son is six and we still don't go to restaurants as he gets bored too quickly. Unless we're in Japan where there are more kid-friendly options (rotating sushi, noodle places, places with tatami mats).
posted by Nevin at 1:05 PM on May 26, 2015


Fortunately, eight weeks is right around the point where babies themselves start getting more enjoyable. For the first couple months, they don't do much other than sleep, eat, and fuss for indecipherable reasons; around 8-10 weeks they relax a little bit, start to interact with the world more, and learn how to smile. I remember my baby suddenly being a LOT more fun around ten weeks, and it just gets better and better from there.

Is it at all possible for you to hire a part-time nanny or find a daycare that can take your son for one or two days a week? If you both work from home, you're both around the baby 24/7, and even though you're not "on duty" the whole time it can build up. You need some time physically away from the baby: to decompress and have some time to yourself, to learn to trust other caretakers, and to get a chance to miss your baby a little bit and come back to him refreshed and ready to interact. It's good for the baby, too. If a nanny or daycare is not in the budget, at least spend some work-from-home time in a coffee shop or shared office space.

Go to restaurants! Take the baby with you. Look for places that are continuously open between lunch and dinner and go at an off hour, like 3 or 4 pm. It gets easier when your little one can sit up unassisted and thus hang out in a high chair, but if you've got one of those car seats that snaps out of the base you can take that in with you.

For less-sweaty carrier walks, try the Boba Air. I haven't used it myself, but I've heard very good things about it.

For exercise: it's not the same as an eight-mile run, but see if the baby will watch you work out at home. Our little guy considers burpees immensely amusing.
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:09 PM on May 26, 2015


There are Babywearing groups on FB that meet up in person. There are Dads only Meetup groups. Dads can totally join Stroller Strides. When our LO was a few months older (crawling) my hubby joined a My Gym class with him. There are parks and rec's classes you can join to get out of the house and have a more interactive experience with your LO.

While it's true that in some cases you may be the only dad, the mom's in the class will dig having you there and will fall all over themselves trying to set up playdates with you and their husbands. It's a great way to make some friends who have kids the same age as yours. And before you know it you'll have a whole new social circle, friends to trade babysitting with, and someone to compare notes with regarding developmental milestones. Truly, parenting a kid under the age of one on a day-to-day basis is BORING unless you have some friends (someone other than your spouse) to share it with.
posted by vignettist at 1:47 PM on May 26, 2015


Never used the stroller. We had one of those carseats where what we called "the bucket" detached. It had a handle and I'd put my arm under the handle and hold the end near his toes. He loved it. I could take him anywhere like that and it made everybody smile. It's kind of like a swing for infants.

Restaurants? Try getting a seat with a view of the kitchen or a busy pedestrian walkway. Ceiling fans are really good too. Parked him on a windowsill when he was 3 days old and we were ravenous. What was happening out that window was fascinating enough that we got through dinner with friends.

I could always get crying to stop by running down the hall holding him like he was a miniature Superman flying. It is pretty easy to astonish a baby. I suggest it. They wonder about everything and you'd have an easier time being with friends if you filled up that little mind with something beforehand.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 2:18 PM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


I find the thing that added most to my enjoyment of the early months of my children's lives was making time to enjoy the baby. Sit side by side on your bed with the baby on your lap and make faces. Sing songs and read books. Show the baby amazing colors and shapes and textures. Tell your best, funniest stories or dirty jokes. Talk talk talk to the baby all the time, no matter where you are; you don't have an inert ten-pound lump of human flesh and need, you have an awesome tiny person to hang out with all the time who thinks you are a golden god.

You can multitask some of that away, sure, but the years are short and you may come to regret it. Commit to being where you are right now; your workout schedule may slide, your housekeeping may slide, your reading time may slide, but it goes fast.

Oh, and as soon as baby is ready for it, institute an early and vigorously defended bedtime. Such is the key to special mommy-daddy alone time.
posted by Andrhia at 2:37 PM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


By eight weeks, baby ArgyleSock may be kind of adapted to being in the world, in the most basic way. Sounds like the tiny socklet is pretty chill. Yay! Start sharing your world. Don't just make calls while on walks, share your favorite music, sing if possible. Talk to socklet, get in the habit of telling socklet about your work, your day, whatever. Show socklet the night stars, the dogs on your route, the cat asleep in the window. Best of all, rock him to sleep, and hold him for a while asleep in your arms. Everyone will tell you how fast it goes; they're right. Take every single opportunity to slow time.

things I miss are: seeing friends, the intellectual stimulation and emotional rewards of getting work done, spending time alone with my wife, getting physical exercise. Take socklet to a coffee shop to meet with a friend, easier than trying to plan dinner. We had a simple diaper bag and I kept it stocked with diapers and wipes so we could pick up and go. They're more portable as infants than when they toddle and you have to chase them. Get a jogging stroller. Start finding a reliable babysitter or 3 so that sometime soon you and your wife can start going out.
posted by theora55 at 2:43 PM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Ways to combine these experiences (or others) with baby-care: Don't. Or rather, stop trying. If it happens to work out, great.... but stop trying so hard. You baby is a very small new person who deserves some undivided attention.

helped the experience be more enjoyable: I'll be honest, I did not find this period enjoyable.It was hard and brought the same kind of satisfaction that digging a nice deep post hole does. Yelp reviews of newborns are consistently low. (Reading stuff like this helped.)

The way to enjoy life with a baby is to learn to enjoy your baby.

What worked for us: Give in and drink the kool-aid. Just give it up, entirely. Let go. I had an easier time with this than my husband, but it worked for him too; he gave in shortly after I went back to work and he took over parental leave. We both found there was an initial struggle and then a big sort of exhalation. We live in a very individualistic culture where we're able to be independent adults for a long time and it IS sort of "all about you" - of course you don't want to give that up. But there's pressure and expectation in that too. It's not about me anymore, and once I got to that point, it was kind of a relief. You will get to do all those things again in time, but it's not ever going to look like it did before. Once we let go of these types of expections and gave ourselves over to parenting a baby we were a lot happier and a lot more relaxed.

I’m not yet head-over-heels in love with him, though the bond is growing every day... so true, even for me and I'm the mom. I feel so much more bonded to him now at eight months! Now he's a little people, and much less a little grub.

I had a hard time chatting to him too; so instead I read to mine - Winnie the Pooh at that age, as well as TS Eliot and Ogden Nash... he really liked the cadence. This works great until about 3mo when they find their hands and start trying to rip the pages out! Jellicle Cats still makes him crack up. Chatting gets easier in a few months with smiles, better eye contact, and blabbering. Things get a lot better at around 4mo, and again at 6mo, and now at 8 things are more awesome than I could have imagined but you know - it's still baby central. He comes first.

Stop multitasking, save your phone/email/chatting for naps (in the pram, or when you're trapped under a sleeping bub that won't be put down) or after bedtime. Multitasking means you are neither fully enjoying your baby nor are you fully enjoying the other thing - which means neither is quite satisfying. When I'm multitasking, the "other thing" has to be 100% expendable/opportunistic: there wasn't anything in particular I wanted to see at the MCA, but I knew he'd like the light exhibit, and I generally like art (degree in it). If we see friends, it has to be ok to bail at the last minute or at any point. When it stops working, we/I need to just leave and let it go and have it be ok.

If he is asleep *off you* (in bed) spend that time wisely: if you want to have sex or go for a run don't do the dishes first!

Bonus: investing in him now will make things easier as he gets older. Our kid is super chill, because he know's he's included and he's not always struggling to get our undivided attention.
posted by jrobin276 at 4:16 PM on May 26, 2015 [7 favorites]


Oh yeah - nth babysitter. If you want a satisfying, non-interrupted anything the baby needs to not be there. Or rather, you need to not be at home. This is even better, since at home there are a million things to do: at a cafe there is one (coffee, or your friends, or your work). This may not work for breastfeeders, so just having grandma come over and hold him while I showerd and fell asleep reading metafilter was good. Like you mentioned, downtime is it's own thing. Don't be afraid to squander time if you need to (and I did). Again, not a fan of multitasking.

My dad recommended (and it was good advice) to keep a running list of of the three things you most want to get done, and at the very first opportunity, do one immediately. Usually it is some variation of eating, showering, or sex (or physio/exercise at first).

Everything I say goes double for your wife. Breastfeeding is much more demanding, humbling, and physical than I thought.
posted by jrobin276 at 4:45 PM on May 26, 2015


I'm going to go against the grain on the multitasking somewhat. I walked for hours every day with my baby and I would have been terribly bored if some of that time I wasn't talking to a friend or doing something else. I also did a little chore multitasking - very little - and it made me feel happy because I accomplished something. On the flip side, we have found the expression "you get out what you put in" to be very true. Like all things baby related, the key is moderation. Do some multi tasking if it makes you happy, but also make some time to focus on the baby.

Agreed re bed time when you're (he's) able so you get back some of the alone time with your wife.

We also do "adult play dates." Usually they're in the afternoon on weekends and they're just get togethers with the kids where the adults enjoy a couple drinks and some good company while also being around our kids. Now our kids are 3, they mainly play together and drink juice boxes while we drink beer and we all eat the same snacks.
posted by semacd at 5:02 PM on May 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


The things I miss are:
Seeing friends.

This is easy - you can still see friends! Have your friends hold the baby, if the baby is mellow let the baby snooze or play with a toy, bring a friend to a baby friendly coffee shop or restaurant/bar (they have those!) for a beer. Don't feel like you have to give your baby attention 24/7. You can still have a conversation. Also, texting/facebook etc. is a good way to stay connected when you are tied down.

the intellectual stimulation and emotional rewards of getting work done
Coordinate large chunks of time to switch off with your wife and when you need to get work done LEAVE THE HOUSE. I recommend the library or a coffee shop.

spending time alone with my wife,
Babysitter, family or friend(s) to take baby for a few hours.

getting physical exercise
Either go to a gym with babycare or put baby in carrier and go for hikes.

We did all this stuff - and also baby movies(!!!) where you can bring the baby to a movie and there are others with babies and nobody cares.
posted by Toddles at 7:54 PM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


PS I completely disagree with those who told you to give up on your life. Obviously we had to make adjustments, but our lives are still intact. Now baby comes with us on our adventures and we've had ample ones since he arrived.
posted by Toddles at 8:14 PM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Haha, Shylo. It is work, but it is - or gets to be - so much fun.

If you have lived or travelled overseas... having a baby is just like that! It's disorienting. You don't know where you are or speak the language (very well) and you spend a lot of time trying to do really basic things. But there's also novelty, fun, and delight. And as you learn the new place better, doing those basic things gets easier. Soon enough, you do more of your own things - and it might look a little different (working at home vs. a library vs. a cafe) but you figure it out. It might never be "home" ("before") but it does settle down eventually. I assume...

Might help the OP too, to think of parenthood as a foreign country, and baby as a tiny foreign ambassador from a dictatorship...

Oh the other thing that helps? We voice what we think the baby's thinking, like in Look Who's Talking. Our kid sounds like a cross between Brad Neely (Wizard People Dear Reader) and Conky (Trailer Park Boys) and is damn sarcastic, let me tell you. But boy, it makes *us* laugh and keeps *us* entertained! (Hm. We should probably stop soon...)

Good grief, I (at least) did not mean give up on your life! Your baby is SO little and will change so fast - you'll be finding ways to do all these things in due time. You might need to be more patient that you think. I had a rough recovery and at 8 weeks I was barely leaving the house. We also had an easy good-natured baby, and it was very tempting to think We should be able to just... shouldn't we? Well, yes and no. It made things easier, but it's still a baby. Spanish is easier to learn than Chinese, but it's not English.

At 8 mo I'm back at work, we go out and do things most weekends, I just finished a college level course (and got an A), have crocheted one glove and a pair of shoes, we cook dinner most nights, my husband gets 40 min of exercise 4-5 days a week, we are back in the sack - and we don't have babysitters! But like a foreign country, you have to let go of your old expectations and habits and adopt new ones. For us that letting go looked like just stopping for a bit more time than we thought - sort of wiping the slate clean in order to learn the lay of the land before we resumed activity.

I actually agree with Toddles. It about how you get to the that place where you are creating a new life as three, vs. attempting to do your old life with a hanger-on.
posted by jrobin276 at 8:33 PM on May 26, 2015


I am really sorry for the repeat postings. I found that when I multitasked with an awake baby it would take forever to get things done (write an email, say) which was frustrating to me, and the partial attention was frustrating for baby (and I'd miss sleep cues and stuff). I enjoyed my baby more when I wasn't trying to accomplish anything specific, and enjoyed concrete goals more when I wasn't around him. So if I'm on baby duty, it's take a walk not hike to X - a general activity, not a goal so much. Specific tasks - homework, call my sister to discuss Y, pay bills are all for babysitting and naps.
posted by jrobin276 at 1:19 AM on May 27, 2015


I had a hard time chatting to him too; so instead I read to mine - Winnie the Pooh at that age, as well as TS Eliot and Ogden Nash... he really liked the cadence. This works great until about 3mo when they find their hands and start trying to rip the pages out!

I actually read half of the Odyssey outloud to my kid when he was 0-3 months old, and it was fantastic. Not only did he like to sit and listen to the sound of my voice, but I got to read something that I would otherwise have had a hard time with. It doesn't even have to be novels, babies will listen to you read anything. My only regret is that I didn't get to finish it before he got too active.

I also really love to cook, and it was something I really missed immediately postpartum. When my kid was 3 months old we bought a high chair (which we still use) that reclined, so I would prop him up in the kitchen at counter-top height where he could watch me cook, with a whole carrot or something to gum. I don't know if it helped develop an interest in cooking, but now at almost two he loooooooooves to help me in the kitchen.
posted by lollymccatburglar at 2:09 AM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


I am not a parent, so take this with the requisite grain of salt, but most of my friends would bring their babies out quite a bit when they were infants. Gatherings at people's houses work especially well for this for obvious reasons, but outdoor things and casual restaurants/low-key bars also seemed to work well.

I know a lot of new parents are worried about how other people will deal with having a (possibly crying, possibly having a full diaper) baby around, but honestly, most people will just be tickled to hang out with a baby, and the rest can just deal.

I take it that's a lot easier when they're portable infants as opposed to mobile toddlers, so definitely take advantage of that opportunity now!
posted by lunasol at 10:49 AM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


For physical exercise, get some of those special baby nappies / diapers and head down to your local swimming pool, if you have one with one of those warm wading pools. You know, the kind that are about chest deep at most and used for hydrotherapy kinds of purposes.

You can get a reasonable amount of exercise just from swooshing the little one around in the water (they love it), and you can add all kinds of variations like running up & down the pool with bubs in your arms, lifting him/her up high above your head & back into the water & so on.

For bonus points, you may be just about the only father there and all the mums will give you looks like you're the best dad ever and then you can high-five yourself "fuck yeah, I sure am!"

Then bubba sleeps in the stroller on the way home after all the excitement, and you can grab yourself a beer if you want. I actually never did that, but the concept remains. Mostly I just went home & got work done, which is another of your goals.
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:09 AM on May 28, 2015


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