Bully brat children
May 11, 2015 10:55 PM Subscribe
Hi there,
[disclaimer: i love children]
I'm an adult and go to a local indoor gym that is short on space and so members are often milling around within close proximity of each other.
It's a specialty gym that's actually geared toward adults, and so imagine my surprise when within the last few months enrollment with the primary and middle school crowd spiked and now the gym has become overrun with poorly behaved children from 1PM - 5 PM (the only time I can use the gym).
Switching my schedule is not an option.
I've noticed that many women in general tend to take an instant dislike to me, but these primary and middle school girls seem to think that they're among peers and have been targeting me in rude ways.
These girls have been shoulder checking me, yelling obscenities towards me on occasion (towards, not at, if you can tell the artful difference), to the point where when I go with friends or my boyfriend they stand there in shock at how these little brats are subtly behaving behind their guardian's backs. Since they're children, I don't know how to handle it- and I feel petty for even caring but I refuse to allow these ill-bred school aged kids to treat me like a peer that they can bully- I am not.
If a woman were to do the things that these kids are doing, I would put a stop to it without fear the very instant it occurred. I feel like on some level many children know that adults are afraid of dealing with children because of how easy it is for a child to tell a tall tale and land that adult in hot water, and this is why they treat me, an adult, in this way. I'm not saying that I think that this will happen, I'm just saying that we live in a culture of hesitancy when it comes to interacting with other people's children- children are very intelligent and aware of subtle social undercurrents.
So how do I deal with the behavior of these boundary pushing children so that I can continue on with my workout happily and then go home? Thanks for your insight :)
These girls have been shoulder checking me, yelling obscenities towards me on occasion (towards, not at, if you can tell the artful difference), to the point where when I go with friends or my boyfriend they stand there in shock at how these little brats are subtly behaving behind their guardian's backs. Since they're children, I don't know how to handle it- and I feel petty for even caring but I refuse to allow these ill-bred school aged kids to treat me like a peer that they can bully- I am not.
If a woman were to do the things that these kids are doing, I would put a stop to it without fear the very instant it occurred. I feel like on some level many children know that adults are afraid of dealing with children because of how easy it is for a child to tell a tall tale and land that adult in hot water, and this is why they treat me, an adult, in this way. I'm not saying that I think that this will happen, I'm just saying that we live in a culture of hesitancy when it comes to interacting with other people's children- children are very intelligent and aware of subtle social undercurrents.
So how do I deal with the behavior of these boundary pushing children so that I can continue on with my workout happily and then go home? Thanks for your insight :)
Is there no age restriction re: "unaccompanied minors" at your gym? I should think that under-16s shouldn't be free to run around by themselves, if only for liability reasons. So yes, definitely speak to management at your gym and - even if they are legally entitled to be there - at the least their behaviour should be controlled by management (there must be general rules re: appropriate behaviour for everyone, regardless of age).
P.S. I understand your frustration: I was once bullied/harassed by an outrageously aggressive 6-year-old when I was an adult and felt at a loss as to how to deal with the situation!
posted by Halo in reverse at 12:53 AM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
P.S. I understand your frustration: I was once bullied/harassed by an outrageously aggressive 6-year-old when I was an adult and felt at a loss as to how to deal with the situation!
posted by Halo in reverse at 12:53 AM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yes, talk to Management.
If a kid picks on you or 'shoulder checks' you? Ask them once, nicely, to please leave you alone. If that doesn't work, and the behavior doesn't cease? Go talk to Management right then, and don't try to engage the kid any more.
posted by spinifex23 at 1:15 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
If a kid picks on you or 'shoulder checks' you? Ask them once, nicely, to please leave you alone. If that doesn't work, and the behavior doesn't cease? Go talk to Management right then, and don't try to engage the kid any more.
posted by spinifex23 at 1:15 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would deepen and raise your voice and tell them in no uncertain terms to leave you alone and that if they dare touch you or speak to you again, you will be contacting their parents, their school principal (if you can tell what school they are from) and management and they will be in deep, deep trouble. HAVE YOU MADE YOURSELF CLEAR?! They think you're a peer. Show them you're an adult with adult powers. And if the parents are around and hear, so much the better. You can have quite the chat about their child's lack of manners and their lack of parenting.
posted by Jubey at 1:23 AM on May 12, 2015 [22 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 1:23 AM on May 12, 2015 [22 favorites]
I'd want to talk to the parent the second the event occurred, since they'd be right there in the gym anyway ("supervising", right?). Stop what you're doing, get serious, look the kid in the eye, and say, "Where is your mom or dad? We're going to talk to them right now". (Just don't touch the child, obviously.) Explain the event to the parent and tell them it's unacceptable behaviour. Stand your ground if the kid lies. Then take the whole circus to the manager, immediately (workout will be interrupted).
If you have to do this more than 2 x, i.e. there's no policy change (like the introduction of a safe and separate area for kids), switch gyms and give this one a bad Yelp review. I think you'll have to do that anyway, because they're not going to say no to parents' business, but don't have space for an appropriate childcare area. If they're going to advertise daycare, they should provide it :/
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:33 AM on May 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
If you have to do this more than 2 x, i.e. there's no policy change (like the introduction of a safe and separate area for kids), switch gyms and give this one a bad Yelp review. I think you'll have to do that anyway, because they're not going to say no to parents' business, but don't have space for an appropriate childcare area. If they're going to advertise daycare, they should provide it :/
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:33 AM on May 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
the next time they shoulder checked me I would let out a blood curdling scream "owwwwww oh my god owwww"
The kids will think either think they hurt you and feel bad or think you're insane- both are good.
Fill in an incident report with management (being bumped into aggressively qualifies as an incident in my book)... Management would need to do a risk assessment I would think and for sure those kids would be staying away from you forever more.
posted by flink at 3:15 AM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
The kids will think either think they hurt you and feel bad or think you're insane- both are good.
Fill in an incident report with management (being bumped into aggressively qualifies as an incident in my book)... Management would need to do a risk assessment I would think and for sure those kids would be staying away from you forever more.
posted by flink at 3:15 AM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
I would say you should do what you'd do to an adult who smacked you in the shoulder and yelled obscenities. Tell them that what they are doing is assault and you'll be reporting it.
Also: and ill-advisedly, and because I am a mean cow, I'd lean in to quietly tell them to try that shit one more time and see what the fuck happens to their shoulder.
posted by honey-barbara at 3:57 AM on May 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
Also: and ill-advisedly, and because I am a mean cow, I'd lean in to quietly tell them to try that shit one more time and see what the fuck happens to their shoulder.
posted by honey-barbara at 3:57 AM on May 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
Do not threaten physical violence against anyone, particularly children (WTF?). Talk to their parents and/or complain to management.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:04 AM on May 12, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:04 AM on May 12, 2015 [17 favorites]
While I haven't had to deal with unruly adolescents at my gym, I have had issues with the way some of the private trainers have congregated around machines and workout spaces, basically holding court and essentially blocking usage of large areas. They were also getting in the habit of leaving kit wherever they last used it, leaving it up to the staff and normal instructors to clean up after them. I spoke to the gym manager privately the first time, then more publicly on subsequent occasions. The normal instructors were very much on my side, given they were always having to clean up their mess. I haven't made any friends with the private crew. But the situation has improved.
Maybe a similar approach where you speak with the management. Give them a chance to bring some order. If they are good, they will likely already be aware of the problem and appreciate your issue and can take some sort of effective action through coaching the kids or speaking with the parents.
If it persists, the next time it happens (your next workout, the next day?) stop where you are, make eye contact with the offenders and call for management immediately and make your case clearly, concisely and publicly. Assuming the staff are professionals, I'd like to think they will have a few calm words with the kids and the kids will realise that bullying / inappropriate behaviour in a gym is unsafe and simply won't be tolerated.
If it continues after that and the staff remain ineffective or indifferent, it's probably time to write that bad review and move on.
posted by michswiss at 4:31 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Maybe a similar approach where you speak with the management. Give them a chance to bring some order. If they are good, they will likely already be aware of the problem and appreciate your issue and can take some sort of effective action through coaching the kids or speaking with the parents.
If it persists, the next time it happens (your next workout, the next day?) stop where you are, make eye contact with the offenders and call for management immediately and make your case clearly, concisely and publicly. Assuming the staff are professionals, I'd like to think they will have a few calm words with the kids and the kids will realise that bullying / inappropriate behaviour in a gym is unsafe and simply won't be tolerated.
If it continues after that and the staff remain ineffective or indifferent, it's probably time to write that bad review and move on.
posted by michswiss at 4:31 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
The mean girls are probably doing this to kids at their school. Don't feel special. They trained on their peers and now they think they can get away with this with you. Complaining to management when they are beholden to this to new influx of money is probably not going to work.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 4:51 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr. Yuck at 4:51 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
If someone pulled that shit on me I would start yelling for help as loudly as possible.
posted by mareli at 4:53 AM on May 12, 2015
posted by mareli at 4:53 AM on May 12, 2015
I don't know if the management is already aware of the kids' intolerable behavior, but I'd bet you aren't the only one they're doing it to and so I agree with michswiss that they should be glad for the opportunity to restore order.
If your gym has any kind of code of conduct, they're doubtless in violation. I would not confront the kids or the parents at all -- march directly to management and complain that unsupervised children are hassling you during your workout and you expect them to put a stop to it pronto.
posted by Gelatin at 5:06 AM on May 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
If your gym has any kind of code of conduct, they're doubtless in violation. I would not confront the kids or the parents at all -- march directly to management and complain that unsupervised children are hassling you during your workout and you expect them to put a stop to it pronto.
posted by Gelatin at 5:06 AM on May 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
Bring your friend or boyfriend with you and have them video the behavior. If your gym sends out group emails where you can access everyone's emails, then send the video to everyone, just for fun. Or post it on the gym's facebook page.
Normally I would say go to management but, they are the ones who let this get out of control in the first place. And the parents are clearly useless. Public shaming would be your most effective option. Don't comment anything nasty. Just something simple like, "I don't know who these belong to but they need to take them home now."
posted by myselfasme at 5:31 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Normally I would say go to management but, they are the ones who let this get out of control in the first place. And the parents are clearly useless. Public shaming would be your most effective option. Don't comment anything nasty. Just something simple like, "I don't know who these belong to but they need to take them home now."
posted by myselfasme at 5:31 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
1) Yes, absolutely get the gym management involved. It's absurd that these kids are just there milling around.
2) They are children. Total asshole children, but children nonetheless. You are an adult. You have the power to assert yourself here.
Here is my method for dealing with teenagers who are a little too big for their britches:
-Compose your face into business neutral. If you have resting bitchface, now is your time to shine.
-Approach the kids, moving at a steady, even pace. Keep your hands at your side or loosely in your pockets. It's best if you can do this moving toward a wall.
-Get really close. DON'T TOUCH THEM. But get close. Uncomfortably close. Hold yourself up at your full posture.
-Look at them like you're pondering what, exactly, they're up to. Don't say anything. Just look down at them with a vague level of concerned confusion, like they're some burgeoning mildew on the side of your house and you're trying to decide how to remove it.
-After you've given them all a good stern look, brighten slightly and say, "so, what are you guys up to?" in an upbeat voice. Like they're your friends and you just want to see how they're doing. But don't back down physically, the only change is in your voice and facial expression.
-They probably won't answer you, or if they do, it'll be just one of them and she'll say something really shitty. Look the leader kid square in the eye and say, "what are you hoping to accomplish here?" Give them a second to answer. Regardless of how they respond, you should just slightly frown and shake your head a bit, because really, you're sad for them.
-At this point, you can relax your posture a bit. Say, "I see you guys here every day, and you just seem so bored. It looks like you need something to do. I wanted to let you know, I'll talk to the manager for you and see if there are any jobs around here you can help out with. I know they're always looking for people who can wash towels! Anyway, see you guys around!" and turn and walk off (slowly, casually).
-Let them watch you approach the management desk and let them watch you talk to someone, then turn around and point directly at their group, then go back to talking some more, so they know their game is up.
There's something about the one-two punch of the aggro approach + relatively friendly chat that just freaks kids the heck out. Threatening them with the suggestion of hard, demeaning work (even if you have no way to enforce it) does wonders. Your goal here is for them to think you're just aggressive enough that messing with you would make their lives unpleasant so they leave you (and maybe other patrons, fingers crossed) alone.
I learned this from my dad. I watched him pull this stunt dozens of times with unruly shits when I was growing up, and I've done it myself plenty of times, too (usually with packs of teenage boys who think they're hot shit for saying sex words at older women). And I'm not a scary man with one surly eyebrow like my dad is. It's 100% about the attitude.
posted by phunniemee at 6:13 AM on May 12, 2015 [57 favorites]
2) They are children. Total asshole children, but children nonetheless. You are an adult. You have the power to assert yourself here.
Here is my method for dealing with teenagers who are a little too big for their britches:
-Compose your face into business neutral. If you have resting bitchface, now is your time to shine.
-Approach the kids, moving at a steady, even pace. Keep your hands at your side or loosely in your pockets. It's best if you can do this moving toward a wall.
-Get really close. DON'T TOUCH THEM. But get close. Uncomfortably close. Hold yourself up at your full posture.
-Look at them like you're pondering what, exactly, they're up to. Don't say anything. Just look down at them with a vague level of concerned confusion, like they're some burgeoning mildew on the side of your house and you're trying to decide how to remove it.
-After you've given them all a good stern look, brighten slightly and say, "so, what are you guys up to?" in an upbeat voice. Like they're your friends and you just want to see how they're doing. But don't back down physically, the only change is in your voice and facial expression.
-They probably won't answer you, or if they do, it'll be just one of them and she'll say something really shitty. Look the leader kid square in the eye and say, "what are you hoping to accomplish here?" Give them a second to answer. Regardless of how they respond, you should just slightly frown and shake your head a bit, because really, you're sad for them.
-At this point, you can relax your posture a bit. Say, "I see you guys here every day, and you just seem so bored. It looks like you need something to do. I wanted to let you know, I'll talk to the manager for you and see if there are any jobs around here you can help out with. I know they're always looking for people who can wash towels! Anyway, see you guys around!" and turn and walk off (slowly, casually).
-Let them watch you approach the management desk and let them watch you talk to someone, then turn around and point directly at their group, then go back to talking some more, so they know their game is up.
There's something about the one-two punch of the aggro approach + relatively friendly chat that just freaks kids the heck out. Threatening them with the suggestion of hard, demeaning work (even if you have no way to enforce it) does wonders. Your goal here is for them to think you're just aggressive enough that messing with you would make their lives unpleasant so they leave you (and maybe other patrons, fingers crossed) alone.
I learned this from my dad. I watched him pull this stunt dozens of times with unruly shits when I was growing up, and I've done it myself plenty of times, too (usually with packs of teenage boys who think they're hot shit for saying sex words at older women). And I'm not a scary man with one surly eyebrow like my dad is. It's 100% about the attitude.
posted by phunniemee at 6:13 AM on May 12, 2015 [57 favorites]
Best answer: What is this gym's policy about minors? I would find it extremely unprofessional and hazardous for any place that calls itself a "gym" and caters to adult customers to allow elementary school-age kids to run around unsupervised. Are there special youth classes or childrens' hours? Is there a staff member keeping an eye on these kids at all times? A lot of facilities just don't allow kids under eighteen for these reasons.
My first move would be to talk to the management and bring up these concerns. Don't frame it as them specifically targeting you; they're probably doing it to a lot of people, and management is more likely to be concerned about a general unruly-kid problem than what might be interpreted as a personal grudge. "A lot of these children have been saying rude things loudly enough for other customers to hear, and bumping into people. It's distracting and unsafe, and it makes this an unpleasant environment to work out in."
In the moment, when one of these kids does something rude, immediately say something to them. It should be as non-threatening and non-aggressive as possible, but loud. Loud enough for other nearby adults to hear; too loud for the kid to ignore. Like, "EXCUSE ME, I BELIEVE YOU JUST BUMPED MY SHOULDER. CAN YOU PLEASE BE MORE CAREFUL?" Or "EXCUSE ME, COULD YOU PLEASE KEEP YOUR VOICES DOWN? I'D RATHER NOT HEAR THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE, THANKS." Look right at them. Kids will pull this kind of shit as long as no one calls them out on it, so you can't be afraid to do so. If there are no staff members within sight or earshot (unprofessional!), go find one and tell them what's going on, and ask them if they can keep an eye on them. If at all possible, avoid working out without staff and other (non-parent) gymgoers around.
Do not threaten. Do not videotape anyone unless you want some PISSED AS FUCK parents coming after your ass.
If you do have to leave and write that bad review, again, don't make this personal, and don't get too ranty. Keep it simple: "This place is overrun with unsupervised children and teenagers." That's enough to warn most adults away.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:19 AM on May 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
My first move would be to talk to the management and bring up these concerns. Don't frame it as them specifically targeting you; they're probably doing it to a lot of people, and management is more likely to be concerned about a general unruly-kid problem than what might be interpreted as a personal grudge. "A lot of these children have been saying rude things loudly enough for other customers to hear, and bumping into people. It's distracting and unsafe, and it makes this an unpleasant environment to work out in."
In the moment, when one of these kids does something rude, immediately say something to them. It should be as non-threatening and non-aggressive as possible, but loud. Loud enough for other nearby adults to hear; too loud for the kid to ignore. Like, "EXCUSE ME, I BELIEVE YOU JUST BUMPED MY SHOULDER. CAN YOU PLEASE BE MORE CAREFUL?" Or "EXCUSE ME, COULD YOU PLEASE KEEP YOUR VOICES DOWN? I'D RATHER NOT HEAR THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE, THANKS." Look right at them. Kids will pull this kind of shit as long as no one calls them out on it, so you can't be afraid to do so. If there are no staff members within sight or earshot (unprofessional!), go find one and tell them what's going on, and ask them if they can keep an eye on them. If at all possible, avoid working out without staff and other (non-parent) gymgoers around.
Do not threaten. Do not videotape anyone unless you want some PISSED AS FUCK parents coming after your ass.
If you do have to leave and write that bad review, again, don't make this personal, and don't get too ranty. Keep it simple: "This place is overrun with unsupervised children and teenagers." That's enough to warn most adults away.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:19 AM on May 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
Please don't take "shaming" videos of children and send them to "everyone" - goodness, that would be cruel. You don't need cruelty, but you do need assertiveness.
Talk to the parents immediately if you can - tell the kid, you're going to do that, and follow through. If the parents act like jerks about it (most will be mortified, but some will probably be rude to you/tell you to get over it), talk to management.
posted by superlibby at 6:22 AM on May 12, 2015
Talk to the parents immediately if you can - tell the kid, you're going to do that, and follow through. If the parents act like jerks about it (most will be mortified, but some will probably be rude to you/tell you to get over it), talk to management.
posted by superlibby at 6:22 AM on May 12, 2015
Before you post anything on the gyms's facebook page, I would talk to management privately and give themselves a chance to rectify it. If that doesn't work, posting things like that on facebook is a really effective way of getting action because it is basically publicly shaming the venue for failing to act on poor behaviour. Plus, current and future customers will read it which is generally why companies act very quickly on Facebook complaints. It does kind of hold them hostage though, and can really damage business depending on what you post so I would only ever use it as a last resort.
posted by Jubey at 6:23 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 6:23 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm just curious... for all the folks saying to tell the management, what exactly should the management DO once you tell them? If the bullying is lowkey and subtle and nobody sees it except the victim, how do they gather evidence or know which families to ban? Do they post a "hall monitor" in each area to watch behavior and catch it in the act? Put up passive-aggressive signs asking folks to Please Can't We All Just Get Along?
(Seriously, this is one of the biggest reasons I quit teaching 30 years ago - I have no idea how to control other folks' behavior)
posted by CathyG at 6:41 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
(Seriously, this is one of the biggest reasons I quit teaching 30 years ago - I have no idea how to control other folks' behavior)
posted by CathyG at 6:41 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
what exactly should the management DO once you tell them?
"The gym's policy is that minors must be accompanied at all times by an adult."
Seriously, just for liability reasons alone, this should be a no brainer.
And for crissakes, these girls are physically assaulting gym patrons. Someone needs to step in here in a big way.
posted by phunniemee at 7:16 AM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
"The gym's policy is that minors must be accompanied at all times by an adult."
Seriously, just for liability reasons alone, this should be a no brainer.
And for crissakes, these girls are physically assaulting gym patrons. Someone needs to step in here in a big way.
posted by phunniemee at 7:16 AM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
Don't go to parents. They're likely scaled up assholes. Go to management so they are aware there is a problem with loitering minors interrupting workouts. And assert your self. Part or why asshole kids are assholes is because so many people are afraid to confront their asshole behavior. If they are old enough to go about unsupervised and talk to / about adults, they are old enough for adults to talk to them. If they shoulder bump you, tell them LOUDLY to "STOP TOUCHING ME". If they say inappropriate things to you, walk up to them and tell them to shut (the fuck) up, tadpoles.
posted by WeekendJen at 7:16 AM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by WeekendJen at 7:16 AM on May 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
what exactly should the management DO once you tell them?
I would expect literally any business to have some sort of policy about unsupervised minors and to be willing to kick out disruptive customers. What those policies are, and what constitutes a disruptive customer, obviously varies from business to business. I wouldn't necessarily expect much - I wouldn't expect a sudden sweeping change in the rules or for the kid I'm complaining about to be tailed by an employee at all times - but I would expect my complaint to be taken seriously and I would expect some form of action to be taken, even if it's just writing the complaint down in a record somewhere.
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:23 AM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
I would expect literally any business to have some sort of policy about unsupervised minors and to be willing to kick out disruptive customers. What those policies are, and what constitutes a disruptive customer, obviously varies from business to business. I wouldn't necessarily expect much - I wouldn't expect a sudden sweeping change in the rules or for the kid I'm complaining about to be tailed by an employee at all times - but I would expect my complaint to be taken seriously and I would expect some form of action to be taken, even if it's just writing the complaint down in a record somewhere.
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:23 AM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Go to the management and say, look, I like this gym, but it has grown increasingly impossible for me to work out here. The number of unsupervised children is distracting. (Give specific examples).
For better or worse that is the prime time of day for kids at these places (I'm envisioning a climbing wall, but this is also true for pools, tennis courts) and your long term solution may be working out at a different time of day.
posted by k8t at 7:27 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
For better or worse that is the prime time of day for kids at these places (I'm envisioning a climbing wall, but this is also true for pools, tennis courts) and your long term solution may be working out at a different time of day.
posted by k8t at 7:27 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
My gym allows kids but they have to be supervised - either by parents or instructors. Clusters of kids running around being brats are swiftly dealt with. This is how it should be at a public gym. If there's going to be something like a climbing wall open to kids after school, there needs to be more supervision.
I would go to the management and let them know what is going on - and emphasize that these groups of kids acting up and harassing the paying adult patrons is not good for business. Minor children need a parent or guardian present, or else kids' events/classes need a reasonable ratio of instructors to kids, so that the kids are not left to wander.
If you are ignored or blown off by management, then feel free to "hold them hostage" by posting to their Facebook. If you take your concerns to the management first, and there is no improvement, then you are justified in escalating. Businesses don't want to lose clients and they don't want public bad reviews - but they need to do their part and not bring bad reviews on themselves.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:54 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would go to the management and let them know what is going on - and emphasize that these groups of kids acting up and harassing the paying adult patrons is not good for business. Minor children need a parent or guardian present, or else kids' events/classes need a reasonable ratio of instructors to kids, so that the kids are not left to wander.
If you are ignored or blown off by management, then feel free to "hold them hostage" by posting to their Facebook. If you take your concerns to the management first, and there is no improvement, then you are justified in escalating. Businesses don't want to lose clients and they don't want public bad reviews - but they need to do their part and not bring bad reviews on themselves.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:54 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
"The gym's policy is that minors must be accompanied at all times by an adult."
Exactly -- the gym should make clear to parents bringing in minors that it's their job, not the gym's, to supervise the kids, and if they fail to do so they are not welcome at the gym. As others have pointed out, not only do these kids running wild potentially cost the gym other paying customers, but they create a risk of legal liability. No business establishment should find that acceptable.
posted by Gelatin at 8:24 AM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Exactly -- the gym should make clear to parents bringing in minors that it's their job, not the gym's, to supervise the kids, and if they fail to do so they are not welcome at the gym. As others have pointed out, not only do these kids running wild potentially cost the gym other paying customers, but they create a risk of legal liability. No business establishment should find that acceptable.
posted by Gelatin at 8:24 AM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Another strategy may be to get other adults on your side. I could imagine starting with some shared looks between you and an adult when children are taking over the space. And then eventually working up to talking about it... "does it seem like there are way more kids here than their used to be?"... The more adults that don't like this, the more likely the gym is to do something about it.
posted by k8t at 8:52 AM on May 12, 2015
posted by k8t at 8:52 AM on May 12, 2015
You don't need to be a parent to have mom glare and a mom voice. Or more accurately, grownup-glare and grownup-voice. It's just a matter of feeling comfortably authoritative rather than defensive. Stare straight at the kid calmly, and say "stop," or "watch yourself," or "excuse you" in an even, neutral voice, and then go about your business.
What you need to do to activate that Adult Says So authority is to let go of this thing where you think that "women in general tend to take an instant dislike to you," because I'm betting that's confirmation bias and a maybe some projection of insecurities you've got banging around in your head. Women in general and people in general are walking around absorbed in their own stuff, not taking time out to form instant opinions about some stranger apropos of nothing!
And yes, also talk to the management. As you pointed out, you wouldn't tolerate this behavior from adults. The kids either need to be mature enough to share the space respectfully, or they need adult supervision to enforce appropriate behavior.
posted by desuetude at 8:56 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
What you need to do to activate that Adult Says So authority is to let go of this thing where you think that "women in general tend to take an instant dislike to you," because I'm betting that's confirmation bias and a maybe some projection of insecurities you've got banging around in your head. Women in general and people in general are walking around absorbed in their own stuff, not taking time out to form instant opinions about some stranger apropos of nothing!
And yes, also talk to the management. As you pointed out, you wouldn't tolerate this behavior from adults. The kids either need to be mature enough to share the space respectfully, or they need adult supervision to enforce appropriate behavior.
posted by desuetude at 8:56 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is it possible these children belong to staff members who are bringing them there after school? if so, does management know?
posted by tamitang at 6:27 PM on May 12, 2015
posted by tamitang at 6:27 PM on May 12, 2015
I refuse to allow these ill-bred school aged kids to treat me like a peer that they can bully- I am not.
But you are. They're treating you like a peer because you're acting like one. You've gotten into some weirdo "I'm better than you" power struggle with them. You're acting like you're a million times better than them - you call them ill-bred and bratty in this thread, and you know they're aware of your opinion of them. It sounds like they're are a bunch of folks at the gym but they're targeting you. Hmm.
Think of adults who are effective at controlling children. Do they wave their hands going "I'M AN ADULT BE QUIET I'M AN ADULT HEY LISTEN TO ME"? No, they have a calm authority about them. They don't patronize, they either validate ("hey guys, I know we're all really excited about the carnival but I need you to be quiet") or they keep it strictly transactional ("guys, listen up. hey, I'm talking. you need to be quiet when I'm talking"). Don't pretend you have authority you don't: you can't kick them out of the gym, and they know that. So be straight with them: "Guys, knock it off. I'm trying to work out and so are a lot of other people. I need you to stop rough-housing around me. I'm asking you once, and if you can't do that then I'm going to go to the gym manager. There's no reason you guys can't hang out here and I don't want you lose your gym privileges, so please just calm down a little and cool it with the shoving." And then you follow up on that; you go straight to the management. Will it work? Maybe not. But it's respectful and you effectively express your needs.
If a woman were to do the things that these kids are doing, I would put a stop to it without fear the very instant it occurred.
Whatever you're doing to other women that you can't do to a middle schooler is a thing you shouldn't be doing to other women. Do you threaten them? Blow a string of obscenities? Stop that, now. I'm not saying it doesn't happen to everyone on occasion, but if that's your go-to conflict management tool there's a reason women don't like you.
posted by good lorneing at 9:21 PM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
But you are. They're treating you like a peer because you're acting like one. You've gotten into some weirdo "I'm better than you" power struggle with them. You're acting like you're a million times better than them - you call them ill-bred and bratty in this thread, and you know they're aware of your opinion of them. It sounds like they're are a bunch of folks at the gym but they're targeting you. Hmm.
Think of adults who are effective at controlling children. Do they wave their hands going "I'M AN ADULT BE QUIET I'M AN ADULT HEY LISTEN TO ME"? No, they have a calm authority about them. They don't patronize, they either validate ("hey guys, I know we're all really excited about the carnival but I need you to be quiet") or they keep it strictly transactional ("guys, listen up. hey, I'm talking. you need to be quiet when I'm talking"). Don't pretend you have authority you don't: you can't kick them out of the gym, and they know that. So be straight with them: "Guys, knock it off. I'm trying to work out and so are a lot of other people. I need you to stop rough-housing around me. I'm asking you once, and if you can't do that then I'm going to go to the gym manager. There's no reason you guys can't hang out here and I don't want you lose your gym privileges, so please just calm down a little and cool it with the shoving." And then you follow up on that; you go straight to the management. Will it work? Maybe not. But it's respectful and you effectively express your needs.
If a woman were to do the things that these kids are doing, I would put a stop to it without fear the very instant it occurred.
Whatever you're doing to other women that you can't do to a middle schooler is a thing you shouldn't be doing to other women. Do you threaten them? Blow a string of obscenities? Stop that, now. I'm not saying it doesn't happen to everyone on occasion, but if that's your go-to conflict management tool there's a reason women don't like you.
posted by good lorneing at 9:21 PM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
> for all the folks saying to tell the management, what exactly should the management DO once you tell them
Come up with interesting programming for the kids so they're not bored. That's my perspective as a Y member.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:27 AM on May 13, 2015
Come up with interesting programming for the kids so they're not bored. That's my perspective as a Y member.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:27 AM on May 13, 2015
for all the folks saying to tell the management, what exactly should the management DO once you tell them
They should manage. That's why they are called "management." They can enforce a rule that says children must be accompanied by a responsible adult, they can have unaccompanied children stay in group programs - such as group climbing, or Zumba, or yoga, or whatever, and they can kick out any misbehaving free-range children.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:43 PM on May 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
They should manage. That's why they are called "management." They can enforce a rule that says children must be accompanied by a responsible adult, they can have unaccompanied children stay in group programs - such as group climbing, or Zumba, or yoga, or whatever, and they can kick out any misbehaving free-range children.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:43 PM on May 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: GLOERNING: actually, if you re-read my post you'll see that i've made it clear that i haven't yet approached the children about their behavior. i'm not engaged in a "weird power struggle" since i have yet to even speak to the kids or their parents about their behavior. the children are not aware of my opinion since i don't believe it's right to parent a stranger's child, that's why i've posted on this thread- to find out how to best handle the situation specifically so that it doesn't turn into some weird power struggle between an adult and a group of 9 year olds. and actually, yes, there is a huge difference between interacting with children and interacting with my peers. if my peer were to shoulder check me, i'd walk up to them and let them know that they had just committed assault, and if they dared to do it again i would be going to the authorities. when a child does something like that, it changes things, i'm not going to threaten a child with arrest and give them my "psyco-path stare" . anyway, i ended up taking metro's advice and writing an email to the establishment and i've noticed a huge difference in the behavior of the children. thanks for all of the advice, everyone!
posted by nephilim. at 2:22 PM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nephilim. at 2:22 PM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
if my peer were to shoulder check me, i'd walk up to them and let them know that they had just committed assault, and if they dared to do it again i would be going to the authorities. when a child does something like that, it changes things, i'm not going to threaten a child with arrest and give them my "psyco-path stare"
Again, I would urge you to reconsider using this as your go-to conflict management tool with peers. Alleging assault, threatening with arrest, a psychopath stare. Something like shoulder-checking for instance, is so ambiguous (accident, not paying attention, tripping) that confronting that way can easily escalate the interaction in a very bad way - especially if it was intentional.
The way you (successfully!) handled the conflict with the children would work in the vast sum of bad interactions with peers.
posted by good lorneing at 3:30 PM on May 17, 2015
Again, I would urge you to reconsider using this as your go-to conflict management tool with peers. Alleging assault, threatening with arrest, a psychopath stare. Something like shoulder-checking for instance, is so ambiguous (accident, not paying attention, tripping) that confronting that way can easily escalate the interaction in a very bad way - especially if it was intentional.
The way you (successfully!) handled the conflict with the children would work in the vast sum of bad interactions with peers.
posted by good lorneing at 3:30 PM on May 17, 2015
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posted by klangklangston at 11:04 PM on May 11, 2015 [36 favorites]