Shady co-worker, but maybe I don't even care - report or ignore?
March 10, 2015 11:26 AM Subscribe
I had a weird situation at work and I'm not sure if I should do anything about it or just ignore it. Part of me is motivated to do something about it because I find it shady and inappropriate. Part of me wonders if there is a way to use this to my advantage at all since office politics is something I do not do. Sorry of this is too long for something that isn't very scandalous.
My office is working on a big project that they want to be top secret. Basically, we are targeting our competitors directly. I am doing some research for the project and I came across something that seemed like it may seriously jeopardize the strategic attack we are going to launch soon. I was in a meeting with three other colleagues, all who are aware of it, while two of them are directly in the meetings around the planning of it. As we were waiting for the meeting to begin, I mentioned this potential problem I came across because I was wondering what two of my colleagues in the meeting made of it. I told them what I said was only for that room and not to say anything about it.
Well, one of the people in the meeting (we will call him Chris -- he was the one not directly involved in the project) mentioned it to another co-worker of mine who we will call Bob. Chris should not have told Bob, obviously, because I said not to say anything. I'm not even sure it was a huge deal to keep this secret, but I did ask and Chris totally ignored it, and then I had to deal with Bob bugging me. I told Chris that wasn't cool for him to share that as I had asked it not leave the room. He apologized. Whatever. Lesson learned re: Chris.
Bob is relatively new and, in my opinion, intense and weird. He doesn't know when to shut up in a meeting, and he is also nosey and awkward. We have an open office plan and when I am talking to my subordinates, like trying to explain something, Bob will say "What are you talking about" and come over from the other side of the desk and sit down and look at the screen and insert himself in the conversation. Sometimes he will come over and ask for something and then when the coversation ends, he will just sit there to the point where I've actually had to eventually say "Did you need something else?"
So anyway, Bob chats me and asks if he can "bend (my) ear." I think it's a work question so I say sure. He pulls me in a private meeting room and says Chris told him I found something that could destory our whole project. (Bob is aware of this project, but not involved.) I say no, it's not a big deal and other people in the organization don't seem too worried. He asks what it is. I tell him that was supposed to be a private conversation directed toward another department head and I really shouldn't get into it. He persists and I try to continue to say it's not a big deal, but that conversation was really just for that room and Chris was out of line to mention it. Bob then tells me that if he asks his friends who work for our competitors, they'll be able to tell him. I said "No, it's nothing they would be aware of." I reiterate it was meant to be a private conversation and not worth getting into. He sits and stares and doesn't say anything. It's incredibly awkward so I finally say, "Okay, I'm gonna go back to my desk now" and I leave. He stays sitting in there, but my desk is visible from the door, and I can see him looking at me from where he is sitting in the private meeting room. It was weird.
Afterward, he gchats me (on the record) and says something like, "I just don't like being told no, to explain my reaction." I respond and reiterate it was a private conversation about a project that doesn't affect him, his tone was inappropriate and his threat to reach out to our competitor was not cool as something like that leaking would be damaging to the organization. He apologized, said he made a mistake, and said he didn't mean to make a threat but he understood how it sounded that way. He said he wasn't thinking that far ahead and realized after our conversation he would've had to tell our competitors about the project to ask them why it would fail, which he wouldn't do. I didn't have anything else to say and he says "You don't have to respond but I'm sorry I put you in that situation." The whole conversation is on the record.
I'll be honest -- I don't care for Bob. Aside from how awkward he is, I also frankly think he sucks at his job. Not his fault, he should have never been hired for his position in the first place, but it's created extra work as I have to fix what he does, and we have completely different roles. People in my office realize I have to fix his work and I've made sure I've covered myself so people realize I am devoting time on it if they are expecting other stuff from me. In an ideal world, he would never bother me again because I don't like him and he should do his own job.
That being said, in two weeks, I am moving. I will continue to do my same job with my same office, but they are letting me work remotely. I will never have to see Bob or deal with his weirdness face-to-face again. Yay! I will still have to deal with him over email or gchat, but it's easier to manage because I can ignore him and set the terms of our communication. It's been much easier over email and gchat to say to him "I'm gonna do this, you do this" and set the terms of how things will work and keep things separated.
My questions:
Should I bother letting anyone know that Bob maybe kind of threatened to undermine this project that is a top priority for the organization? He later told me on gchat that what he said was not meant to be a threat. Should I bother pointing out that he seems to have some boundary issues? I've already flagged that he is ill-equipped for his job (luckily, I am not the only one to say it) but I worry if I flag this incident, then it looks like I just resent that he is bad at his job. Also, if I am moving and probably can manage my relationship with him much easier remotely, would it be pointless to stir this up? Should I just ignore it? Would I seem petty for doing it, or loyal the the organization and trustworthy? Again, I'm not entirely sure this conversation absolutely needed to be a secret -- clearly my superiors do not think it will destroy the project -- but the aggressive way he questioned me really turned me off and made me not want to tell him anything. It was odd to me. That said, will I look like a douche-bag who is trying to withhold info to feel important? I don't think I would get in trouble for mentioning the situation in front of Chris -- I don't think it was a huge deal and Chris was the one who behaved inappropriately.
So, what would you do? What do you think I should do? And why?
My office is working on a big project that they want to be top secret. Basically, we are targeting our competitors directly. I am doing some research for the project and I came across something that seemed like it may seriously jeopardize the strategic attack we are going to launch soon. I was in a meeting with three other colleagues, all who are aware of it, while two of them are directly in the meetings around the planning of it. As we were waiting for the meeting to begin, I mentioned this potential problem I came across because I was wondering what two of my colleagues in the meeting made of it. I told them what I said was only for that room and not to say anything about it.
Well, one of the people in the meeting (we will call him Chris -- he was the one not directly involved in the project) mentioned it to another co-worker of mine who we will call Bob. Chris should not have told Bob, obviously, because I said not to say anything. I'm not even sure it was a huge deal to keep this secret, but I did ask and Chris totally ignored it, and then I had to deal with Bob bugging me. I told Chris that wasn't cool for him to share that as I had asked it not leave the room. He apologized. Whatever. Lesson learned re: Chris.
Bob is relatively new and, in my opinion, intense and weird. He doesn't know when to shut up in a meeting, and he is also nosey and awkward. We have an open office plan and when I am talking to my subordinates, like trying to explain something, Bob will say "What are you talking about" and come over from the other side of the desk and sit down and look at the screen and insert himself in the conversation. Sometimes he will come over and ask for something and then when the coversation ends, he will just sit there to the point where I've actually had to eventually say "Did you need something else?"
So anyway, Bob chats me and asks if he can "bend (my) ear." I think it's a work question so I say sure. He pulls me in a private meeting room and says Chris told him I found something that could destory our whole project. (Bob is aware of this project, but not involved.) I say no, it's not a big deal and other people in the organization don't seem too worried. He asks what it is. I tell him that was supposed to be a private conversation directed toward another department head and I really shouldn't get into it. He persists and I try to continue to say it's not a big deal, but that conversation was really just for that room and Chris was out of line to mention it. Bob then tells me that if he asks his friends who work for our competitors, they'll be able to tell him. I said "No, it's nothing they would be aware of." I reiterate it was meant to be a private conversation and not worth getting into. He sits and stares and doesn't say anything. It's incredibly awkward so I finally say, "Okay, I'm gonna go back to my desk now" and I leave. He stays sitting in there, but my desk is visible from the door, and I can see him looking at me from where he is sitting in the private meeting room. It was weird.
Afterward, he gchats me (on the record) and says something like, "I just don't like being told no, to explain my reaction." I respond and reiterate it was a private conversation about a project that doesn't affect him, his tone was inappropriate and his threat to reach out to our competitor was not cool as something like that leaking would be damaging to the organization. He apologized, said he made a mistake, and said he didn't mean to make a threat but he understood how it sounded that way. He said he wasn't thinking that far ahead and realized after our conversation he would've had to tell our competitors about the project to ask them why it would fail, which he wouldn't do. I didn't have anything else to say and he says "You don't have to respond but I'm sorry I put you in that situation." The whole conversation is on the record.
I'll be honest -- I don't care for Bob. Aside from how awkward he is, I also frankly think he sucks at his job. Not his fault, he should have never been hired for his position in the first place, but it's created extra work as I have to fix what he does, and we have completely different roles. People in my office realize I have to fix his work and I've made sure I've covered myself so people realize I am devoting time on it if they are expecting other stuff from me. In an ideal world, he would never bother me again because I don't like him and he should do his own job.
That being said, in two weeks, I am moving. I will continue to do my same job with my same office, but they are letting me work remotely. I will never have to see Bob or deal with his weirdness face-to-face again. Yay! I will still have to deal with him over email or gchat, but it's easier to manage because I can ignore him and set the terms of our communication. It's been much easier over email and gchat to say to him "I'm gonna do this, you do this" and set the terms of how things will work and keep things separated.
My questions:
Should I bother letting anyone know that Bob maybe kind of threatened to undermine this project that is a top priority for the organization? He later told me on gchat that what he said was not meant to be a threat. Should I bother pointing out that he seems to have some boundary issues? I've already flagged that he is ill-equipped for his job (luckily, I am not the only one to say it) but I worry if I flag this incident, then it looks like I just resent that he is bad at his job. Also, if I am moving and probably can manage my relationship with him much easier remotely, would it be pointless to stir this up? Should I just ignore it? Would I seem petty for doing it, or loyal the the organization and trustworthy? Again, I'm not entirely sure this conversation absolutely needed to be a secret -- clearly my superiors do not think it will destroy the project -- but the aggressive way he questioned me really turned me off and made me not want to tell him anything. It was odd to me. That said, will I look like a douche-bag who is trying to withhold info to feel important? I don't think I would get in trouble for mentioning the situation in front of Chris -- I don't think it was a huge deal and Chris was the one who behaved inappropriately.
So, what would you do? What do you think I should do? And why?
Nope. Bob didn't actually do anything. He sounds weird, but there was no wrongdoing involved. Say nothing.
posted by natteringnabob at 11:39 AM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by natteringnabob at 11:39 AM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think there's anything you need to do here. Your explanation to Bob of why he was being inappropriate was good and clear and I think that's as far as it needs to go.
"I respond and reiterate it was a private conversation about a project that doesn't affect him, his tone was inappropriate and his threat to reach out to our competitor was not cool as something like that leaking would be damaging to the organization."
It sounds like he's motivated by being nosy as all get out, which should be a failing that will come back to bite him in the ass in other ways especially if he's not good at his job. Arguably, your colleague that told him anything in the first place committed just as big a mistake, and if you wouldn't go to that person's boss to tattle on them, you shouldn't do it for Bob.
posted by MsMolly at 11:39 AM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
"I respond and reiterate it was a private conversation about a project that doesn't affect him, his tone was inappropriate and his threat to reach out to our competitor was not cool as something like that leaking would be damaging to the organization."
It sounds like he's motivated by being nosy as all get out, which should be a failing that will come back to bite him in the ass in other ways especially if he's not good at his job. Arguably, your colleague that told him anything in the first place committed just as big a mistake, and if you wouldn't go to that person's boss to tattle on them, you shouldn't do it for Bob.
posted by MsMolly at 11:39 AM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm trying to decide from your tale if Bob is "nosy" or "meddlesome".
If he's just being "nosy"--that is, sticks his nose in where it's not wanted to satisfy his curiosity, but little else-- then I'd be inclined to let it slide.
If he's "meddlesome"--that is, Bob takes the info he gleans from being "nosy" and tries to use it in some fashion to take action; maybe to make himself look good, maybe because he thinks he can do your job better than you, maybe because he's offended that you wouldn't indulge his curiosity--then to save the project I probably would say something to the higher-ups.
posted by magstheaxe at 11:45 AM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
If he's just being "nosy"--that is, sticks his nose in where it's not wanted to satisfy his curiosity, but little else-- then I'd be inclined to let it slide.
If he's "meddlesome"--that is, Bob takes the info he gleans from being "nosy" and tries to use it in some fashion to take action; maybe to make himself look good, maybe because he thinks he can do your job better than you, maybe because he's offended that you wouldn't indulge his curiosity--then to save the project I probably would say something to the higher-ups.
posted by magstheaxe at 11:45 AM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
"I just don't like being told no, to explain my reaction."
He sounds threatening.
Document everything. If you have run ins with him again you can document a clear pattern.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:46 AM on March 10, 2015 [30 favorites]
He sounds threatening.
Document everything. If you have run ins with him again you can document a clear pattern.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:46 AM on March 10, 2015 [30 favorites]
To me this sounds like "weird guy with poor boundaries who says something that sounds - on paper - way more inappropriate than it actually was". I would say that unless you literally, actually think that Bob is going to do something to imperil the project (not just be kind of weird in conversation) you should let it alone. If Bob is equally weird/boundaryless again over chat or email, that's the point to kick things upstairs - but "Oh, I have friends at Rival, I could just ask them" sounds more like the sort of stupid thing people think because they cross the friends/work categories in their heads.
This is all relying on your account where Bob comes across as more awkward than intentionally, consciously badly behaved.
If you were staying longer, I think it would be great to have a discreet conversation with Bob where you say "look, when I am having a conversation with a colleague, please don't assume that's an open conversation and just jump in; I will be sure to include you if I am in need of your expertise".
I always think it's worthwhile to give people a chance to learn the norms, because some folks come from really unusual work environments or need extra time but do not mean any harm. Also, I work with someone I thought was super creepy for, like, the first two years I was here....and then I realized that I had been totally, totally wrong based on a couple of misinterpretations and a bit of bad luck (and I am glad that I kept my impressions to myself, because I was so very wrong). I know you're actually sitting with the guy, so that presents a lot more data, but it's worth letting someone settle in before filing them in the "creepy" file.
posted by Frowner at 11:52 AM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
This is all relying on your account where Bob comes across as more awkward than intentionally, consciously badly behaved.
If you were staying longer, I think it would be great to have a discreet conversation with Bob where you say "look, when I am having a conversation with a colleague, please don't assume that's an open conversation and just jump in; I will be sure to include you if I am in need of your expertise".
I always think it's worthwhile to give people a chance to learn the norms, because some folks come from really unusual work environments or need extra time but do not mean any harm. Also, I work with someone I thought was super creepy for, like, the first two years I was here....and then I realized that I had been totally, totally wrong based on a couple of misinterpretations and a bit of bad luck (and I am glad that I kept my impressions to myself, because I was so very wrong). I know you're actually sitting with the guy, so that presents a lot more data, but it's worth letting someone settle in before filing them in the "creepy" file.
posted by Frowner at 11:52 AM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
I would give a heads up to someone higher up in the organization simply because if you don't, and this guy does spill the beans about the project to a competitor, it's on the record that you know he threatened to do so and you chose not to tell anyone. You don't want to be drawn into that sort of badness. In order to protect yourself, I think it makes sense to notify a higher up and let them take whatever action they think is necessary. I think it is appropriate to couch it as "I'm not sure what to make of this incident, or even whether I should be reporting it, but I figured it was better to be safe than sorry down the line."
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:53 AM on March 10, 2015 [78 favorites]
posted by rainbowbrite at 11:53 AM on March 10, 2015 [78 favorites]
My read is that he is a stubborn, nosy person who may become single-minded when he wants to find something out and may throw out scenarios as an attempt to finagle information (e.g., the "what happens if I talk to other people" ruse). I am guilty of this trait as well. His explanation indicates to me he is aware of this trait and feels bad for his actions. I wouldn't pursue it further.
posted by megancita at 12:00 PM on March 10, 2015
posted by megancita at 12:00 PM on March 10, 2015
Yes, let your higher-ups know of this immediately, and documentdocumentDOCUMENT everything: Bob may be a nosy weirdo with poor boundaries and/or interpersonal office skills, but he's basically just threatened to sink the entire project if you don't give in to his blackmail and let him know everything --- which, by the way, would only risk even more info he could pass on to your competitor.
posted by easily confused at 12:05 PM on March 10, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by easily confused at 12:05 PM on March 10, 2015 [16 favorites]
"I just don't like being told no, to explain my reaction."
He sounds threatening.
I actually took that to mean he was trying to be self-aware. He apologised and admitted his mistake on-record. It sounds to me like he's more on the nosy than meddlesome end of the spectrum, got carried away with a bit of perceived drama, and then realised he'd been out of line. He might just want to be more involved with people in general, hence butting in to conversations, so he could be a little lonely or needy which you're reading as "weird and intense". Personally I'd leave it alone.
posted by billiebee at 12:07 PM on March 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
He sounds threatening.
I actually took that to mean he was trying to be self-aware. He apologised and admitted his mistake on-record. It sounds to me like he's more on the nosy than meddlesome end of the spectrum, got carried away with a bit of perceived drama, and then realised he'd been out of line. He might just want to be more involved with people in general, hence butting in to conversations, so he could be a little lonely or needy which you're reading as "weird and intense". Personally I'd leave it alone.
posted by billiebee at 12:07 PM on March 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
I find it extremely odd that a new hire and someone of lower office rank would call a meeting and insist that you divulge information about a confidential matter, and then continue to insist that you do so, in the face of your flat out telling them it is inappropriate for them to know about the issue to begin with.
Tell someone, cover your ass. That's not just awkward and poorly socialized, that's socialized in an aggressive and potentially dangerous manner, and it might not blow up with regards to this project, but sooner or later, someone else is going to make a complaint about having been cornered by this guy in a way that made them feel uncomfortable, and you are going to want the history on the books to make the case to fire him.
posted by instead of three wishes at 12:13 PM on March 10, 2015 [39 favorites]
Tell someone, cover your ass. That's not just awkward and poorly socialized, that's socialized in an aggressive and potentially dangerous manner, and it might not blow up with regards to this project, but sooner or later, someone else is going to make a complaint about having been cornered by this guy in a way that made them feel uncomfortable, and you are going to want the history on the books to make the case to fire him.
posted by instead of three wishes at 12:13 PM on March 10, 2015 [39 favorites]
Yes, he does sound like someone with major boundary and social skill issues, but the fact that he does pose a danger, intentionally or not, to the project offsets that. Not malicious, but not harmless either. The risk is that he will talk about it with his friends for the same awkward reasons he talked with you, regardless of what he or you agree to. I agree with rainbowbrite.
posted by mmiddle at 12:14 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mmiddle at 12:14 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seconding rainbowbrite that you should at least let your supervisor - or whoever assigned you this project - know what happened. Not only so the situation is documented, but also so that it then becomes their responsibility to figure out whether this is A Thing or not.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:14 PM on March 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:14 PM on March 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
(Just to add -- not everyone is as capable of standing up for themselves when aggressively cornered on a subject like this. Seriously, help protect your co-workers who are going to be left behind to deal with this guy).
posted by instead of three wishes at 12:15 PM on March 10, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by instead of three wishes at 12:15 PM on March 10, 2015 [19 favorites]
He later told me on gchat that what he said was not meant to be a threat.
In other words, he admitted saying it, for the record.
It sounds like regardless of where you physically work, the success or failure of this project will affect your company's future, and by extension yours. "Bob" sounds like he went out of his way to make himself a risk to that project.
My philosophy at work is to let behavior slide up to the point where it becomes a risk to my own livelihood -- though since I'm a consultant, that barrier is relatively low; one instance of bad consultant behavior can lead to the relationship with the entire company being terminated -- and in this case I'd say "Bob" definitely crossed that line.
It won't be your role to decide what action to take, if any, but your superiors should know of this incident. Let them worry about what to do about "Bob."
posted by Gelatin at 12:15 PM on March 10, 2015 [8 favorites]
In other words, he admitted saying it, for the record.
It sounds like regardless of where you physically work, the success or failure of this project will affect your company's future, and by extension yours. "Bob" sounds like he went out of his way to make himself a risk to that project.
My philosophy at work is to let behavior slide up to the point where it becomes a risk to my own livelihood -- though since I'm a consultant, that barrier is relatively low; one instance of bad consultant behavior can lead to the relationship with the entire company being terminated -- and in this case I'd say "Bob" definitely crossed that line.
It won't be your role to decide what action to take, if any, but your superiors should know of this incident. Let them worry about what to do about "Bob."
posted by Gelatin at 12:15 PM on March 10, 2015 [8 favorites]
Is it possible Bob is a corporate spy who actually works for your competition and has infiltrated your company to try to find out about the big project and report back? That does happen. In this case Bob is probably too awkward to have been hired as a spy but you never know. This is just another reason to mention the interaction to someone higher up.
posted by hazyjane at 12:37 PM on March 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by hazyjane at 12:37 PM on March 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
I would mention it to my supervisor, but not in a "Bob is dangerous and threatened to tell our rivals about the project" kind of way. More of a what needs to happen so that this doesn't happen again kind of way. "Did you know that Bob knows people at Rival? He's new enough that it seems like he just doesn't get that anything he says to them or about them, that's even vaguely work related, could be considered corporate espionage. Do we cover that in new employee orientation?"
posted by aimedwander at 12:44 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by aimedwander at 12:44 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
I think Bob's comment was rather innocent. I also think you should report it. Why take on this responsibility yourself? That's up to Bob's supervisor. If something bad happens, you don't want to be the person who knew about it and didn't do anything; especially since you don't know what Bob would do if cornered: he clearly can't maintain.
If his supervisor doesn't care, then fine. But don't be the one to make the call.
posted by spaltavian at 12:49 PM on March 10, 2015 [13 favorites]
If his supervisor doesn't care, then fine. But don't be the one to make the call.
posted by spaltavian at 12:49 PM on March 10, 2015 [13 favorites]
Bob is a careless dunderhead, but I don't think his behavior rises to the level of High Alert. Nothing you say makes me think he has made any kind of "threat" or was deliberately trying to undermine you. It sounds more like he was trying to be helpful and failing badly- fortunately you stopped him before he acted on his bad impulses, and he seems to understand why it was wrong.
Was any harm actually done here? No. My advice would be to just let it go. If you absolutely must CYA, let whomever is running the project know that Bob inadvertently discovered some sensitive stuff, and leave it at that.
posted by mkultra at 12:50 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Was any harm actually done here? No. My advice would be to just let it go. If you absolutely must CYA, let whomever is running the project know that Bob inadvertently discovered some sensitive stuff, and leave it at that.
posted by mkultra at 12:50 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I worked with a Bob. I followed Rainbowbrite's suggestions, and it seemed like everyone knew he was awkward and would try to pump people for information, but management did nothing. I eventually left the company for other reasons. He conversationally would continue to tell me about projects, and I would remind him that he was violating company policy by doing so. He continued to tell me about confidential project info - and remember, I was no longer part of his company! I finally called a higher ranking VP at the company and said, you really want to rein this in. Here's what I know about XYZ top secret project. I have said nothing to anyone besides you, but not everyone has the same ethics, and honestly, I don't want to know any more. I haven't heard from Bob in a few months now.
Based on my experience, it's entirely possible that he IS telling people at Rival what he knows, not because he's a spy, but because he Just. Doesn't. Get. It. And by "it", I mean boundaries and why you don't discuss confidential contracts with any random person. He might not be a corporate spy, but he's totally the dude that a corporate spy would want to be friends with.
posted by RogueTech at 12:53 PM on March 10, 2015 [35 favorites]
Based on my experience, it's entirely possible that he IS telling people at Rival what he knows, not because he's a spy, but because he Just. Doesn't. Get. It. And by "it", I mean boundaries and why you don't discuss confidential contracts with any random person. He might not be a corporate spy, but he's totally the dude that a corporate spy would want to be friends with.
posted by RogueTech at 12:53 PM on March 10, 2015 [35 favorites]
It may have been totally innocent but Bob directly threatened the success of what sounds like a fairly high priority project. I would send a brief email to your immediate supervisor on the secret project with a disclaimer that this might be nothing, but you felt obligated to report the conversation, and a just-the-facts summary of what happened, though if possible start it with "Bob found out I had raised a concern in a private meeting and was a little aggressive in asking me what it was" and avoid mentioning the whole Chris thing, which is a distraction. Avoid editorializing, just say it seemed weird and you wanted them to be aware.
Avoid dramatics, editorializing, or involving anyone else besides your immediate supervisor.
As an option b I think just documenting everything but doing nothing else is also an acceptable, if less proactive, course of action. It might even be better if there are broader work or gender politics things happening, but that didn't seem to be the case from your question.
posted by Wretch729 at 1:19 PM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Avoid dramatics, editorializing, or involving anyone else besides your immediate supervisor.
As an option b I think just documenting everything but doing nothing else is also an acceptable, if less proactive, course of action. It might even be better if there are broader work or gender politics things happening, but that didn't seem to be the case from your question.
posted by Wretch729 at 1:19 PM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would tell higher ups. I don't see what you have to lose if you keep it factual. If you tell them what you told us minus the context about him being annoying and sucking at his job, it shouldn't come across as vindictive or anything. At the very least, I'd tell the other two people working on the project. Is he cornering them, too? It's always nice to know if you're not the only one being targeted.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:24 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by small_ruminant at 1:24 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
Agree, CYA with your supervisor, in as factual and unemotional a way as possible. Then move on and let them deal with it.
posted by rpfields at 1:37 PM on March 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by rpfields at 1:37 PM on March 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
You might consider whether Bob pulled something similar on Chris to get information out of him in the first place.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 1:40 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 1:40 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
I think it depends how important the confidential project is to your organization and how important the issue you pointed out is to the confidential project. If the competitor finding out about the project and/or the issue you pointed out could pose a threat to your organization or its finances, I would say something like:
"Hey [boss], I just wanted to flag a small issue. Bob came to talk to me the other day and let me know he is friendly with someone who worked for [competitor]. He also bugged me a bit to tell him more about [issue]. I politely ended the conversation and later he apologized and assured me he would respect the confidentiality of the project - he was just being curious. But I wanted to flag this possible conflict of interest so we know whom to include on the project as it progresses."
posted by sallybrown at 1:43 PM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Hey [boss], I just wanted to flag a small issue. Bob came to talk to me the other day and let me know he is friendly with someone who worked for [competitor]. He also bugged me a bit to tell him more about [issue]. I politely ended the conversation and later he apologized and assured me he would respect the confidentiality of the project - he was just being curious. But I wanted to flag this possible conflict of interest so we know whom to include on the project as it progresses."
posted by sallybrown at 1:43 PM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
I've been in a similar situation, and while my instinctive reaction was that "Bob" was too obviously selling information, and nobody could possibly be that stupid, it has recently been discovered that yes, "Bob" was a cooperate spy. Wow. I didn't even really believe such people existed, let alone that they could be that stupid and visible.
So if I were you, I'd have a talk with a higher up. Stick to facts. Move on, it's not your responsibility after you have shared your worries.
posted by mumimor at 1:51 PM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
So if I were you, I'd have a talk with a higher up. Stick to facts. Move on, it's not your responsibility after you have shared your worries.
posted by mumimor at 1:51 PM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
What does it mean that the company "wants" it to be top secret? Either it is and they've said so, or it's just some behind the scenes bizdev (simplifying). In the case of formally compartmentalized information, other companies treat this as a security violation on your part. I know you said it was information learned independently, yadda yadda, and that there's a peripheral sense of independent knowledge relayed to someone outside of clearance, but it speaks to the integrity of the project and that aspects of the project can be gleaned from the information (otherwise you wouldn't be worried). So, you should tell your manager what you did and how it played out, leaving out all the drama and most of what you've described here, and that it was a mistake on your part, not related to you leaving, and so on. Then you can leave with a clear conscience.
Chris and Bob are now known to not be able to keep a secret, for what it's worth, but they didn't violate anything but collegiality.
posted by rhizome at 1:56 PM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Chris and Bob are now known to not be able to keep a secret, for what it's worth, but they didn't violate anything but collegiality.
posted by rhizome at 1:56 PM on March 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Enough with the secrets! There's no reason to be hiding everything and making such a big deal about this. The next time you see your boss, just mention that you had a weird interaction with Bob that left you a little bewildered. No need to make a formal report or anything, just give him or her a quick run-down of what happened. It's actually a pretty normal thing to do.
posted by sam_harms at 2:28 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by sam_harms at 2:28 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Some secrets are necessary for competitive reasons, which this sounds to be. Would you like to see a picture of the official tape that Big Company X puts on the phone cameras and laptop cams of employees-already-subject-to-disclosure-rules when they go into certain meetings?
posted by rhizome at 3:15 PM on March 10, 2015
posted by rhizome at 3:15 PM on March 10, 2015
rhizome, what does that mean? I completely can't parse it.
posted by small_ruminant at 3:30 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by small_ruminant at 3:30 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm willing to grant him awkwardness over maliciousness, but if your company is working on projects that require confidentiality and compartmentalisation, then that kind of awkward is problematic. As rhizome says, this depends a bit on whether the project is formally secret or is more like playing at SEEKRIT PLANZ, given the problem with Chris. If senior management are worried about leaks, report it; if they're not and you think they ought to be, then take that up; if they're still indifferent, shrug and move on.
posted by holgate at 3:36 PM on March 10, 2015
posted by holgate at 3:36 PM on March 10, 2015
small_ruminant: I'm saying there are business cases to be made for secrecy, so saying "enough with the secrets!" is naive.
posted by rhizome at 3:43 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 3:43 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
As rhizome says, this depends a bit on whether the project is formally secret or is more like playing at SEEKRIT PLANZ, given the problem with Chris.
the OP made it very clear this is real, big time secret stuff ... I don't know why everyone insists on doing this demeaning thing where they speculate about "playing at SEEKRIT PLANZ." Have some courtesy for the OP and assume what they stated in the question is true.
posted by jayder at 3:44 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
the OP made it very clear this is real, big time secret stuff ... I don't know why everyone insists on doing this demeaning thing where they speculate about "playing at SEEKRIT PLANZ." Have some courtesy for the OP and assume what they stated in the question is true.
posted by jayder at 3:44 PM on March 10, 2015 [10 favorites]
Rhizome is saying that some companies, even though you've signed the agreements and nodded yes to "this is secret, okay?" will still put black electrical tape over your phone's camera because it's just too valuable to take a chance.
posted by JoeZydeco at 3:58 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 3:58 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ah, thank you. I didn't know that but I guess I'd've been surprised if they didn't. Not sure what they could do about microphones, though?
posted by small_ruminant at 4:10 PM on March 10, 2015
posted by small_ruminant at 4:10 PM on March 10, 2015
Chris is as much the problem as Bob, IMO, and maybe worse.
This said, I do think you have to let people know how Bob acted. It may just be boundary issues and it almost certainly is more linked to not wanting to be out of the know than corporate espionage. Still, it's a red flag and if the secrecy is actually important it should be brought up to appropriate management.
posted by frumiousb at 4:54 PM on March 10, 2015
This said, I do think you have to let people know how Bob acted. It may just be boundary issues and it almost certainly is more linked to not wanting to be out of the know than corporate espionage. Still, it's a red flag and if the secrecy is actually important it should be brought up to appropriate management.
posted by frumiousb at 4:54 PM on March 10, 2015
If you report/discuss this up the chain, and I would, don't go easy on Chris just because he's not a weirdo who creeps you out like Bob. Chris was the leak. So if this un-professionalism needs to be addressed, don't single out the one you don't like. From your description, I wouldn't like to work with Bob, for personal AND professional reasons. Bob was out of line in a few different ways. But Chris broke the rules first.
This shared blame actually makes your dilemma easier to deal with, IMO-- you can tell your supervisor there needs to be a clarification of your secrecy policy, and your expectations of how all employees will adhere to confidentiality rules.
In my super-corporate job, all my and other execs' emails were subpoenaed pursuant to a huge DOJ lawsuit and I still have to confirm some facts from time to time. So, far-fetched, but your actions may be questioned even after you leave.
posted by kapers at 5:03 PM on March 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
This shared blame actually makes your dilemma easier to deal with, IMO-- you can tell your supervisor there needs to be a clarification of your secrecy policy, and your expectations of how all employees will adhere to confidentiality rules.
In my super-corporate job, all my and other execs' emails were subpoenaed pursuant to a huge DOJ lawsuit and I still have to confirm some facts from time to time. So, far-fetched, but your actions may be questioned even after you leave.
posted by kapers at 5:03 PM on March 10, 2015 [11 favorites]
I'd venture that, annoying as he may be, Bob didn't break any rules at all.
posted by rhizome at 5:29 PM on March 10, 2015
posted by rhizome at 5:29 PM on March 10, 2015
It sounds like Bob is too clueless to be a functional corporate spy.
It sounds like Bob is too clueless to be a functional employee for your company.
posted by ovvl at 6:08 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
It sounds like Bob is too clueless to be a functional employee for your company.
posted by ovvl at 6:08 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh, my God. YES of course you should tell whoever your supervisor on the secret project is. If that's your manager, great. If that's someone else, tell them. Whoever it is that's in charge of the secret project.
On a personal level, Bob is bizarre, and absolutely likely to - at some point - mischaracterize what happened, to your detriment. On a project level, someone needs to make Chris be quiet, and someone needs to be made aware of Bob's weird behavior and terrible judgment/questionable loyalties.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:11 PM on March 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
On a personal level, Bob is bizarre, and absolutely likely to - at some point - mischaracterize what happened, to your detriment. On a project level, someone needs to make Chris be quiet, and someone needs to be made aware of Bob's weird behavior and terrible judgment/questionable loyalties.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:11 PM on March 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't know why everyone insists on doing this demeaning thing where they speculate about "playing at SEEKRIT PLANZ."
Because of a few things in the original post that the OP also made clear: that Chris blabbing to Bob was "Whatever. Lesson learned." after he apologised for doing so, and that
The grand takeaway is that there needs to be a definition of what secrecy actually entails for such projects, with equally defined consequences for breaching it.
posted by holgate at 7:53 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Because of a few things in the original post that the OP also made clear: that Chris blabbing to Bob was "Whatever. Lesson learned." after he apologised for doing so, and that
I'm not even sure it was a huge deal to keep this secretand
I'm not entirely sure this conversation absolutely needed to be a secret -- clearly my superiors do not think it will destroy the projectI'm taking the OP at their word here. I'll apologise for the tone, but I agree with kapers here: if this is a secret, compartmentalised project, then Chris needs to face the music as much as Bob. In addition, the people on the project need to be made clear that nothing leaves the room, and if it does then they're leaving the office with their stuff in a box. If, instead, you're allowed one blabbermouth moment within the office as long as you apologise, then both Chris and Bob are on a yellow card.
The grand takeaway is that there needs to be a definition of what secrecy actually entails for such projects, with equally defined consequences for breaching it.
posted by holgate at 7:53 PM on March 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Mod note: From the OP:
Not sure if people will see this follow-up, but one thorny issue here is that the supervisor who I would have to talk about Bob potentially undermining the project is also the guy who chose to hire Bob. In some ways, I feel this supervisor is a little under pressure by the fact that Bob seems like a bad hire -- and I think some of that pressure comes from me. People have gone to me for the things Bob is supposed to do because I am better at it, and I've made it clear both to supervisor and another supervisor that I am taking away time from my normal job to assist with Bob's responsibilities. So I worry it could look a bit like I have it out for Bob. If there was another supervisor I'd feel comfortable reporting this to, I would, but really, I'd have to go through the project supervisor who also hired Bob. Does that change the minds of the "report the incident" crowd?posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 8:45 PM on March 10, 2015
In that case: make your discussion about establishing clear boundaries for the project, understood both by those working on it and those who aren't.
posted by holgate at 8:52 PM on March 10, 2015
posted by holgate at 8:52 PM on March 10, 2015
Could Bob's weird reaction have been because he already chatted up someone at Rival and realized what a colossally huge mistake that was?
posted by bluedaisy at 9:40 PM on March 10, 2015
posted by bluedaisy at 9:40 PM on March 10, 2015
In light of your update, OP, I still say report it. Think of it this way: you're reporting the problem, not the people.
To avoid the appearance of a vendetta, you have to be EXTRA careful not to make personal comments. So, not that you would, but do not use words like "weird" or "sucks," and no bringing up past incidents or your personal objections about him like how he lingers awkwardly and expresses himself oddly, or any irrelevant or un-provable info. Or it really will seem like you just have it out for Bob.
Again, Chris was the leak, so this is not a Bob problem and per your update, if you hand-wave what Chris did but harp on what Bob did, it will seem personal.
This doesn't have to be a huge formal meeting of doom. Report the problem, not the people. The problem is that people don't seem clear on confidentiality (including you!) and the incident is an example of that problem and how it can spiral out without a clear policy from the top.
posted by kapers at 11:36 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
To avoid the appearance of a vendetta, you have to be EXTRA careful not to make personal comments. So, not that you would, but do not use words like "weird" or "sucks," and no bringing up past incidents or your personal objections about him like how he lingers awkwardly and expresses himself oddly, or any irrelevant or un-provable info. Or it really will seem like you just have it out for Bob.
Again, Chris was the leak, so this is not a Bob problem and per your update, if you hand-wave what Chris did but harp on what Bob did, it will seem personal.
This doesn't have to be a huge formal meeting of doom. Report the problem, not the people. The problem is that people don't seem clear on confidentiality (including you!) and the incident is an example of that problem and how it can spiral out without a clear policy from the top.
posted by kapers at 11:36 PM on March 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Seconding kapers. You're just making your supervisor know about the incident as a whole, so they can then decide who to act against, or whether to act at all. And just a "hey, just so you know, this happened" thing is enough.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:37 AM on March 11, 2015
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:37 AM on March 11, 2015
Yes, you still need to report it --- both to your direct supervisor and to anybody else you can think of. So WHAT if it looks like you "have it out for Bob"?!? He is a bad hire, in so very many different ways, and it's better for the company to lose Bob (a not-particularly-competent employee who is having you do parts of his job for him, and is either a loose-lipped loudmouth or a corporate spy), or you (a senior employee who I'm assuming is respected and competent and keeps company business private).
posted by easily confused at 6:30 AM on March 11, 2015
posted by easily confused at 6:30 AM on March 11, 2015
If the supervisor is aware that Bob was a bad hire, he or she may be relieve to hear all this. If Bob is threatening to discuss your secret project with his friends at your competitor, it may suddenly become a lot easier for Bob's issues to be escalated to HR, because there's a giant specific rule violation involved, and one that doesn't call into question the supervisor's ability to determine if potential hires are capable of executing whatever tasks will be assigned to them.
Basically, if the job is cog-adjuster and your supervisor hired someone who can't adjust cogs, that reflects badly on him or her. But if it turns out the new cog adjuster is threatening to reveal company secrets to his buddies at Spacely Sprockets...
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:08 AM on March 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Basically, if the job is cog-adjuster and your supervisor hired someone who can't adjust cogs, that reflects badly on him or her. But if it turns out the new cog adjuster is threatening to reveal company secrets to his buddies at Spacely Sprockets...
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:08 AM on March 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
You have nothing to lose by being brief and factual, and putting it in writing. No editorializing, no guess-work.
"Supervisor,
On ABC Date, Bob pulled me as aside into a private room asking about X confidential aspect of project. I responded with Blah. Bob said Blah Blah. Later that afternoon he messaged me about the incident, this written exchange is included.
Regards,
OP"
If you are asked, "I can't speculate because he's not involved with Project. That is what happened. I don't know why he approached me."
I don't think you understand. Bob threatened the organization you work for. Why? Who knows! But that was literally the weirdest response I can think of, "Well if you won't tell me, I'll just go ask our competitor!"
Who says that??
While it is above your pay grade to speculate about Bob, you have a duty to report this exchange since this is a secret project to increase your company's share of the market.
posted by jbenben at 6:34 PM on March 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Supervisor,
On ABC Date, Bob pulled me as aside into a private room asking about X confidential aspect of project. I responded with Blah. Bob said Blah Blah. Later that afternoon he messaged me about the incident, this written exchange is included.
Regards,
OP"
If you are asked, "I can't speculate because he's not involved with Project. That is what happened. I don't know why he approached me."
I don't think you understand. Bob threatened the organization you work for. Why? Who knows! But that was literally the weirdest response I can think of, "Well if you won't tell me, I'll just go ask our competitor!"
Who says that??
While it is above your pay grade to speculate about Bob, you have a duty to report this exchange since this is a secret project to increase your company's share of the market.
posted by jbenben at 6:34 PM on March 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
They should probably wait to fire him until after Project is completed and deployed.
He's a loose canon. Yep. You have to tell higher ups. Sorry.
posted by jbenben at 11:37 AM on March 10, 2015 [31 favorites]