Dealing with anxiety and self-doubt as a new public defender
January 4, 2015 11:06 PM Subscribe
I got my "dream job." I love it and don't want to do anything else. It is also completely insane and impossible. Help.
I graduated from law school last spring and started a job as a public defender. I am lucky in that my office is financially better off than many systems which are just in a total crisis. But there also are just literally not enough hours in the day to do a good job on everything that comes my way, and I'm not capable of working insane hours constantly without burning out.
I DO have an anxiety disorder, which I'm sure doesn't help, but I think this job overwhelms pretty much everyone. At the same time, while I vent somewhat with coworkers, I don't want to tell people at work just how much stress I am feeling (I don't see how being seen as someone who can't handle it could help things).
Basically, I am struggling with major self-doubt and have been getting into a procrastination shame-spiral as well. I would appreciate the advice of anyone who deals with similar issues, particularly in a similar environment (or other PD's), on how to deal with these problems. I'll try to break it down below with concrete examples of what I think creates these problems.
The self-doubt problem: I have to make BIG decisions, often with very little time to think, with no assurance of how things will turn out. Issues here:
-The system I'm in is majorly insane and unfair and not remotely constitutional in many ways. It's definitely "guilty until proven innocent." Prosecutors literally NEVER turn over Brady (exculpatory) information as they are ethically and legally required to do. Judges are unpredictable and even ones that I've gotten good results with sometimes decide to completely and blatantly ignore the law. (I'm not talking obscure points. I recently watched a trial where the usually-not-so-bad judge allowed prosecutor to completely make case based on hearsay of what alleged victim said to police in their investigation, then sentenced the defendant to the maximum--I THINK for no other reason than that the judge was annoyed at the public defender that day.)
-Yes, the decisions of whether to go to trial or take a plea are my clients', but realistically, they are relying on my experience and evaluation of the case to help make those really hard decisions
-Morally I feel that fighting, when in doubt, is the right way to go, both because (1) my clients deserve to have someone stand up for them and (2) caving is not the way to improve the system. I try to remember that almost all the time, when we have been willing to go to trial, it has improved the outcome for my clients. I try to remember the girl who cried and thanked me and said every other public defender would have just told her to plead guilty. But crazy shit happens. And when that crazy shit happens, I feel responsible.
-There ARE no right answers. We get next to no training at work. If I ask the same question to three different people (and sometimes very concrete questions) I get three different answers. So I just end up going with my gut...which is scary for someone with 5 months of experience.)
The time management problem: I could devote all of my hours to this job and it wouldn't be enough. I couldn't live my life like that either. Right now, I'm getting into the stressful habit of procrastination, so that I work only around 8 hours a day when nothing has to be done RIGHT NOW, and then working very late (sometimes only getting a few hours sleep) before a trial docket. Things I think contribute to this:
-This is perversely logical because a lot of work goes nowhere. Spend an hour interviewing a witness, who then doesn't show up. Then, a client shows up in court who you've never met because their phone number is out of service, and it turns into a big thing that takes over the day.
-I am plain overwhelmed by the flood of little things. The paperwork piles up. I get back from court at 4PM and there's 20 messages, and I DREAD and put off returning phone calls, to the point where I feel like I'd get in trouble about it if it was known how behind I was on that. Many are from people I've never heard of. Many are from clients/former clients/family members who got serious misinformation somewhere which has made them pissed off about how I handled things and/or want me to do something I can't do (and those kind of conversations are important but can be a major time suck). A few are just rational messages asking to set up interviews or other reasonable things. I also screen my calls, which makes me feel guilty, but I have so many interruptions already without potentially having to deal with some random person.
-It is really hard to get things done that require focus during regular 8-5 business hours because it seems like someone wants something every minute of the day. And then after that I am so tired that I just want to go home. Then I decide I'll come in on the weekend. Which I have a hard time getting myself to do once the weekend comes.
-I HAVE been thinking about how to manage time better. I think if I could consistently put in about 10 hours a day that could save me from the last-minute pile up. It is really hard for me to do, though--and, within that, it's really hard to make sure I'm getting the right amount of time for the most important things, when the "urgent" but less important things can easily take over.
TL/DR: I am struggling with self-doubt and procrastination in a rewarding but high-stress profession, and would really appreciate advice from anyone who has dealt with these issues in a similar environment.
I graduated from law school last spring and started a job as a public defender. I am lucky in that my office is financially better off than many systems which are just in a total crisis. But there also are just literally not enough hours in the day to do a good job on everything that comes my way, and I'm not capable of working insane hours constantly without burning out.
I DO have an anxiety disorder, which I'm sure doesn't help, but I think this job overwhelms pretty much everyone. At the same time, while I vent somewhat with coworkers, I don't want to tell people at work just how much stress I am feeling (I don't see how being seen as someone who can't handle it could help things).
Basically, I am struggling with major self-doubt and have been getting into a procrastination shame-spiral as well. I would appreciate the advice of anyone who deals with similar issues, particularly in a similar environment (or other PD's), on how to deal with these problems. I'll try to break it down below with concrete examples of what I think creates these problems.
The self-doubt problem: I have to make BIG decisions, often with very little time to think, with no assurance of how things will turn out. Issues here:
-The system I'm in is majorly insane and unfair and not remotely constitutional in many ways. It's definitely "guilty until proven innocent." Prosecutors literally NEVER turn over Brady (exculpatory) information as they are ethically and legally required to do. Judges are unpredictable and even ones that I've gotten good results with sometimes decide to completely and blatantly ignore the law. (I'm not talking obscure points. I recently watched a trial where the usually-not-so-bad judge allowed prosecutor to completely make case based on hearsay of what alleged victim said to police in their investigation, then sentenced the defendant to the maximum--I THINK for no other reason than that the judge was annoyed at the public defender that day.)
-Yes, the decisions of whether to go to trial or take a plea are my clients', but realistically, they are relying on my experience and evaluation of the case to help make those really hard decisions
-Morally I feel that fighting, when in doubt, is the right way to go, both because (1) my clients deserve to have someone stand up for them and (2) caving is not the way to improve the system. I try to remember that almost all the time, when we have been willing to go to trial, it has improved the outcome for my clients. I try to remember the girl who cried and thanked me and said every other public defender would have just told her to plead guilty. But crazy shit happens. And when that crazy shit happens, I feel responsible.
-There ARE no right answers. We get next to no training at work. If I ask the same question to three different people (and sometimes very concrete questions) I get three different answers. So I just end up going with my gut...which is scary for someone with 5 months of experience.)
The time management problem: I could devote all of my hours to this job and it wouldn't be enough. I couldn't live my life like that either. Right now, I'm getting into the stressful habit of procrastination, so that I work only around 8 hours a day when nothing has to be done RIGHT NOW, and then working very late (sometimes only getting a few hours sleep) before a trial docket. Things I think contribute to this:
-This is perversely logical because a lot of work goes nowhere. Spend an hour interviewing a witness, who then doesn't show up. Then, a client shows up in court who you've never met because their phone number is out of service, and it turns into a big thing that takes over the day.
-I am plain overwhelmed by the flood of little things. The paperwork piles up. I get back from court at 4PM and there's 20 messages, and I DREAD and put off returning phone calls, to the point where I feel like I'd get in trouble about it if it was known how behind I was on that. Many are from people I've never heard of. Many are from clients/former clients/family members who got serious misinformation somewhere which has made them pissed off about how I handled things and/or want me to do something I can't do (and those kind of conversations are important but can be a major time suck). A few are just rational messages asking to set up interviews or other reasonable things. I also screen my calls, which makes me feel guilty, but I have so many interruptions already without potentially having to deal with some random person.
-It is really hard to get things done that require focus during regular 8-5 business hours because it seems like someone wants something every minute of the day. And then after that I am so tired that I just want to go home. Then I decide I'll come in on the weekend. Which I have a hard time getting myself to do once the weekend comes.
-I HAVE been thinking about how to manage time better. I think if I could consistently put in about 10 hours a day that could save me from the last-minute pile up. It is really hard for me to do, though--and, within that, it's really hard to make sure I'm getting the right amount of time for the most important things, when the "urgent" but less important things can easily take over.
TL/DR: I am struggling with self-doubt and procrastination in a rewarding but high-stress profession, and would really appreciate advice from anyone who has dealt with these issues in a similar environment.
I am not in a similar situation and I don't know if this will be helpful to you, but some of what you're saying here is reminiscent to me of what's called "over-efforting," which describes a response people often have when they are new to something, and feeling overwhelmed and incapable. Basically, they feel ashamed and lonely, isolate themselves and don't confide in others, and just put their head down and try harder.
That doesn't work. The reality is, other people are doing this job, and have found a way to not burn out. You need to find out from them how they do it.
The literature advises people in your situation to build a network. Talk with more experienced colleagues and find out what systems or practices they've developed. Hang out with your peer group and kick around ideas and share tips. You're not the first person to have this problem, and over time (just like everyone else did) you will learn how to handle it. Good luck :)
posted by Susan PG at 4:24 AM on January 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
That doesn't work. The reality is, other people are doing this job, and have found a way to not burn out. You need to find out from them how they do it.
The literature advises people in your situation to build a network. Talk with more experienced colleagues and find out what systems or practices they've developed. Hang out with your peer group and kick around ideas and share tips. You're not the first person to have this problem, and over time (just like everyone else did) you will learn how to handle it. Good luck :)
posted by Susan PG at 4:24 AM on January 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
The good news: this is exactly what this job is like, and how it's been described to me by everyone who's ever had it. It's torturous, impossible and insane. So you're not crazy, and you're not dealing with it that much worse, if it all, than anyone else.
The person above has really good advice, but: "The reality is, other people are doing this job, and have found a way to not burn out. You need to find out from them how they do it." That's not really true! EVERYONE who has had this job has burnt out. That's why people do it right after law school, and then move on. But this is the truest thing ever: "The literature advises people in your situation to build a network."
Get a mentor who's been there. Call them at least once a week. Stop suffering in silence, and tell your lunch buddies how utterly fucked you feel you are. Realize that you can waste your time asking three different people the same question but it's not worth it, because you're going to get three different answers, and so stop doing that and just make a choice and move on.
The whole PREMISE of throwing you people into working in this terrible system is that you become accustomed to mistakes, conflict, disaster, strife and stress. The best people do the best they can. You actually CANNOT manage your way through or out of this perfectly. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. The task is impossible. Do what you can to be of the most service and help you can be and walk away from the burning smoldering car crash of the rest of it.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 5:51 AM on January 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
The person above has really good advice, but: "The reality is, other people are doing this job, and have found a way to not burn out. You need to find out from them how they do it." That's not really true! EVERYONE who has had this job has burnt out. That's why people do it right after law school, and then move on. But this is the truest thing ever: "The literature advises people in your situation to build a network."
Get a mentor who's been there. Call them at least once a week. Stop suffering in silence, and tell your lunch buddies how utterly fucked you feel you are. Realize that you can waste your time asking three different people the same question but it's not worth it, because you're going to get three different answers, and so stop doing that and just make a choice and move on.
The whole PREMISE of throwing you people into working in this terrible system is that you become accustomed to mistakes, conflict, disaster, strife and stress. The best people do the best they can. You actually CANNOT manage your way through or out of this perfectly. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. The task is impossible. Do what you can to be of the most service and help you can be and walk away from the burning smoldering car crash of the rest of it.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 5:51 AM on January 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
Stay organized about your cases so you can quickly look up similar cases, motions, etc. Maybe a folder for a type of case, or for a statute, or whatever you think makes the most sense. Once you have been there for a while you will be able to reuse much of your previous work.
Also, contact other PDs in your state who I'm sure would be willing to talk things over with you on short notice or send draft motions or whatever else you need.
Also, hammer them for Brady violations. Write a good motion now and file it every time it is relevant--a judge shouldn't over look this.
posted by unreasonable at 7:10 AM on January 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
Also, contact other PDs in your state who I'm sure would be willing to talk things over with you on short notice or send draft motions or whatever else you need.
Also, hammer them for Brady violations. Write a good motion now and file it every time it is relevant--a judge shouldn't over look this.
posted by unreasonable at 7:10 AM on January 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
Welcome to the fray. I'm a former DA, and though we didn't quite have the same client-based stresses as you do (the State as a social construct rarely calls us up to complain about things), the workload was similar, at least in my jurisdiction. Here are some thoughts:
-The system I'm in is majorly insane and unfair and not remotely constitutional in many ways. It's definitely "guilty until proven innocent." Prosecutors literally NEVER turn over Brady (exculpatory) information as they are ethically and legally required to do. Judges are unpredictable and even ones that I've gotten good results with sometimes decide to completely and blatantly ignore the law. (I'm not talking obscure points. I recently watched a trial where the usually-not-so-bad judge allowed prosecutor to completely make case based on hearsay of what alleged victim said to police in their investigation, then sentenced the defendant to the maximum--I THINK for no other reason than that the judge was annoyed at the public defender that day.)
I'm biased on this point, but I expect that DAsdo not literally never turn over Brady material, though I'm sure it happens at times, either with or without the prosecutor's intent. As a DA, I had a lot better working relationship with the PDs who were not convinced that I was the enemy and out to get them. The improved relationship was better for me, better for the PDs, and better for those PDs' clients. Though it may seem so at times, I expect your prosecutors are not evil and not out to get you and your clients -- they are recent grads like you that are trying to do their best in a tough job where they, too, are up to their eyeballs in more work than they can handle. As much as you can, see them as equals, and try to go from there. The more you can develop a culture of mutual respect and trust, the better life will be. And when I say trust, I don't mean that the two sides will have the same interests, but as a prosecutor if I said the offer would be X and would not change before trial, the PDs learned they could trust that. And I could trust a number of PDs when they said "you should take a closer look at this case because you should soften your offer given the circumstances," it was actually a case I should take a closer look at and it wasn't the same speech they gave every DA on every case.
-Yes, the decisions of whether to go to trial or take a plea are my clients', but realistically, they are relying on my experience and evaluation of the case to help make those really hard decisions
This is entirely true. You need to learn to trust your decisions on what advice to give your clients otherwise you will go nuts. Practice handicapping your cases and share that information with your clients -- i.e. you have X chance of being convicted, which will result in Y. But if you plead, here is what will happen. I advise X because of Y. If you can't get comfortable giving them that kind of advice and sleeping at night, this may not be the gig for you. I also expect that you're in county court or its equivalent in your jurisdiction, which is where you can allow yourself to make some small mistakes without ruining anyone's life. If someone on his second DUI does 35 days instead of 30 because you messed up, it is not the end of the world.
-Morally I feel that fighting, when in doubt, is the right way to go, both because (1) my clients deserve to have someone stand up for them and (2) caving is not the way to improve the system. I try to remember that almost all the time, when we have been willing to go to trial, it has improved the outcome for my clients. I try to remember the girl who cried and thanked me and said every other public defender would have just told her to plead guilty. But crazy shit happens. And when that crazy shit happens, I feel responsible.
Perhaps this sounds defeatist, but it's going to be a hard road if you're single-mindedly devoted to changing the system. I think politics is a better forum for that -- I see your role as giving your clients the best possible representation and best possible outcome. If the best option for this particular client is trial, go to trial. If the best option is a plea, even if it plays into the "system," you should be advising your client to plead. Framing that as "caving" is detrimental to you and your representation -- you're not there to engage in a battle of wills with the DAs, you're there to get the best possible result for your client.
-There ARE no right answers. We get next to no training at work. If I ask the same question to three different people (and sometimes very concrete questions) I get three different answers. So I just end up going with my gut...which is scary for someone with 5 months of experience.)
Our office had "staffing" days where everyone would bring their problematic cases to a conference room to shop them around with the other DAs to see if they can get a consensus on what the proper offer or tactic should be. If you have a similar opportunity, take advantage of it. If not, find a mentor whose judgment you trust and ask them these questions rather than taking a poll. See above re: learning to trust your gut.
-This is perversely logical because a lot of work goes nowhere. Spend an hour interviewing a witness, who then doesn't show up. Then, a client shows up in court who you've never met because their phone number is out of service, and it turns into a big thing that takes over the day.
Time management is a problem for everyone in these jobs. Farm out what you can to paralegals, assistants, and investigators. Focus on triaging things. What needs to be done NOW? What might go away and can wait? What can be ignored altogether? Get control of your inboxes and if something can be handled in less than 2-5 minutes, do it NOW rather than spend time thinking about it 3-4 more times before it actually gets done. Take good case notes so you don't waste time repeating things that have already been addressed.
-I am plain overwhelmed by the flood of little things. The paperwork piles up. I get back from court at 4PM and there's 20 messages, and I DREAD and put off returning phone calls, to the point where I feel like I'd get in trouble about it if it was known how behind I was on that. Many are from people I've never heard of. Many are from clients/former clients/family members who got serious misinformation somewhere which has made them pissed off about how I handled things and/or want me to do something I can't do (and those kind of conversations are important but can be a major time suck). A few are just rational messages asking to set up interviews or other reasonable things. I also screen my calls, which makes me feel guilty, but I have so many interruptions already without potentially having to deal with some random person.
It sounds like you're being too nice on some of these things. I expect you're a very empathetic person, like many PDs, but you can't spend half an hour talking to someone about their sister who is in jail who you can't help -- you don't have the half hour to spare. Make a conscious effort to get people off the phone if you can't help them or if they can't help you.
-It is really hard to get things done that require focus during regular 8-5 business hours because it seems like someone wants something every minute of the day. And then after that I am so tired that I just want to go home. Then I decide I'll come in on the weekend. Which I have a hard time getting myself to do once the weekend comes.
See above re: triaging. You need to constantly make decisions about what is the best use of your time at any given point and use your time that way, even if it means being rude to someone who is demanding that you turn your attention to their thing at this very minute.
-I HAVE been thinking about how to manage time better. I think if I could consistently put in about 10 hours a day that could save me from the last-minute pile up. It is really hard for me to do, though--and, within that, it's really hard to make sure I'm getting the right amount of time for the most important things, when the "urgent" but less important things can easily take over.
There isn't much else to do here but suck it up. Being a PD is not a 40 hour a week job. And the extra hours need to be spent getting ahead, rather than just trying to get caught up. Often defendants will be on something like a 30 day cycle between court appearances. I found it was helpful to set a clean inbox day for myself, so that on, say, the end of each month, I was caught up on all of the not-pressing stuff that had to be done, even if it meant working all Saturday in the office by myself. Of course, stuff would come flooding in on the first, but at least I knew nothing was stagnating for more than 29 days.
Good luck. This is a hard, but important job. If you'd like to chat about this or what it looks like from the other side of the fence, feel free to MeMail me.
posted by craven_morhead at 9:27 AM on January 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
-The system I'm in is majorly insane and unfair and not remotely constitutional in many ways. It's definitely "guilty until proven innocent." Prosecutors literally NEVER turn over Brady (exculpatory) information as they are ethically and legally required to do. Judges are unpredictable and even ones that I've gotten good results with sometimes decide to completely and blatantly ignore the law. (I'm not talking obscure points. I recently watched a trial where the usually-not-so-bad judge allowed prosecutor to completely make case based on hearsay of what alleged victim said to police in their investigation, then sentenced the defendant to the maximum--I THINK for no other reason than that the judge was annoyed at the public defender that day.)
I'm biased on this point, but I expect that DAsdo not literally never turn over Brady material, though I'm sure it happens at times, either with or without the prosecutor's intent. As a DA, I had a lot better working relationship with the PDs who were not convinced that I was the enemy and out to get them. The improved relationship was better for me, better for the PDs, and better for those PDs' clients. Though it may seem so at times, I expect your prosecutors are not evil and not out to get you and your clients -- they are recent grads like you that are trying to do their best in a tough job where they, too, are up to their eyeballs in more work than they can handle. As much as you can, see them as equals, and try to go from there. The more you can develop a culture of mutual respect and trust, the better life will be. And when I say trust, I don't mean that the two sides will have the same interests, but as a prosecutor if I said the offer would be X and would not change before trial, the PDs learned they could trust that. And I could trust a number of PDs when they said "you should take a closer look at this case because you should soften your offer given the circumstances," it was actually a case I should take a closer look at and it wasn't the same speech they gave every DA on every case.
-Yes, the decisions of whether to go to trial or take a plea are my clients', but realistically, they are relying on my experience and evaluation of the case to help make those really hard decisions
This is entirely true. You need to learn to trust your decisions on what advice to give your clients otherwise you will go nuts. Practice handicapping your cases and share that information with your clients -- i.e. you have X chance of being convicted, which will result in Y. But if you plead, here is what will happen. I advise X because of Y. If you can't get comfortable giving them that kind of advice and sleeping at night, this may not be the gig for you. I also expect that you're in county court or its equivalent in your jurisdiction, which is where you can allow yourself to make some small mistakes without ruining anyone's life. If someone on his second DUI does 35 days instead of 30 because you messed up, it is not the end of the world.
-Morally I feel that fighting, when in doubt, is the right way to go, both because (1) my clients deserve to have someone stand up for them and (2) caving is not the way to improve the system. I try to remember that almost all the time, when we have been willing to go to trial, it has improved the outcome for my clients. I try to remember the girl who cried and thanked me and said every other public defender would have just told her to plead guilty. But crazy shit happens. And when that crazy shit happens, I feel responsible.
Perhaps this sounds defeatist, but it's going to be a hard road if you're single-mindedly devoted to changing the system. I think politics is a better forum for that -- I see your role as giving your clients the best possible representation and best possible outcome. If the best option for this particular client is trial, go to trial. If the best option is a plea, even if it plays into the "system," you should be advising your client to plead. Framing that as "caving" is detrimental to you and your representation -- you're not there to engage in a battle of wills with the DAs, you're there to get the best possible result for your client.
-There ARE no right answers. We get next to no training at work. If I ask the same question to three different people (and sometimes very concrete questions) I get three different answers. So I just end up going with my gut...which is scary for someone with 5 months of experience.)
Our office had "staffing" days where everyone would bring their problematic cases to a conference room to shop them around with the other DAs to see if they can get a consensus on what the proper offer or tactic should be. If you have a similar opportunity, take advantage of it. If not, find a mentor whose judgment you trust and ask them these questions rather than taking a poll. See above re: learning to trust your gut.
-This is perversely logical because a lot of work goes nowhere. Spend an hour interviewing a witness, who then doesn't show up. Then, a client shows up in court who you've never met because their phone number is out of service, and it turns into a big thing that takes over the day.
Time management is a problem for everyone in these jobs. Farm out what you can to paralegals, assistants, and investigators. Focus on triaging things. What needs to be done NOW? What might go away and can wait? What can be ignored altogether? Get control of your inboxes and if something can be handled in less than 2-5 minutes, do it NOW rather than spend time thinking about it 3-4 more times before it actually gets done. Take good case notes so you don't waste time repeating things that have already been addressed.
-I am plain overwhelmed by the flood of little things. The paperwork piles up. I get back from court at 4PM and there's 20 messages, and I DREAD and put off returning phone calls, to the point where I feel like I'd get in trouble about it if it was known how behind I was on that. Many are from people I've never heard of. Many are from clients/former clients/family members who got serious misinformation somewhere which has made them pissed off about how I handled things and/or want me to do something I can't do (and those kind of conversations are important but can be a major time suck). A few are just rational messages asking to set up interviews or other reasonable things. I also screen my calls, which makes me feel guilty, but I have so many interruptions already without potentially having to deal with some random person.
It sounds like you're being too nice on some of these things. I expect you're a very empathetic person, like many PDs, but you can't spend half an hour talking to someone about their sister who is in jail who you can't help -- you don't have the half hour to spare. Make a conscious effort to get people off the phone if you can't help them or if they can't help you.
-It is really hard to get things done that require focus during regular 8-5 business hours because it seems like someone wants something every minute of the day. And then after that I am so tired that I just want to go home. Then I decide I'll come in on the weekend. Which I have a hard time getting myself to do once the weekend comes.
See above re: triaging. You need to constantly make decisions about what is the best use of your time at any given point and use your time that way, even if it means being rude to someone who is demanding that you turn your attention to their thing at this very minute.
-I HAVE been thinking about how to manage time better. I think if I could consistently put in about 10 hours a day that could save me from the last-minute pile up. It is really hard for me to do, though--and, within that, it's really hard to make sure I'm getting the right amount of time for the most important things, when the "urgent" but less important things can easily take over.
There isn't much else to do here but suck it up. Being a PD is not a 40 hour a week job. And the extra hours need to be spent getting ahead, rather than just trying to get caught up. Often defendants will be on something like a 30 day cycle between court appearances. I found it was helpful to set a clean inbox day for myself, so that on, say, the end of each month, I was caught up on all of the not-pressing stuff that had to be done, even if it meant working all Saturday in the office by myself. Of course, stuff would come flooding in on the first, but at least I knew nothing was stagnating for more than 29 days.
Good luck. This is a hard, but important job. If you'd like to chat about this or what it looks like from the other side of the fence, feel free to MeMail me.
posted by craven_morhead at 9:27 AM on January 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
I'm a PD. If you want to talk in detail about this, feel free to MeFi Mail me. I had a lot of wonderful people mentoring and advising and reassuring me when I was in your shoes (and we've all been in your shoes), so I'd be delighted to "pay it forward" by chatting with you.
But no matter what, just know that this is very, very normal. For the first six months I had my job, literally all of my dreams were nightmares about my work, about having missed something, about accidentally screwing over a client by making a bad mistake, about being unprepared for court, etc. It does get better. And it gets better more quickly than you might expect. And all of your colleagues who are new at this, even the ones who seem totally together and organized and calm, are secretly freaking the fuck out. I promise.
Getting Things Done has saved my life. I don't do all of it, but here are the parts that are most important in our job:
I agree with the DA who posted above that you can't be trying to change the system. In addition to being impossible, it's also not fair to your clients. Each client deserves a lawyer who is trying to make her/his individual situation better, and if you're thinking about the system, you're not putting that client first. What's good for your client may be bad for criminal justice reform writ large and that's ok. It's someone else's job to fix the system. Your job is to help your individual client.
I disagree with the DA above that prosecutors are just good people doing their best. And we're just going to have to agree to disagree about that, because I doubt I'm going to change his mind. Nearly all of the prosecutors where I work are actively scheming to break the rules and the law to put people in prison. The culture at their office encourages Brady violations and unfair dealing and hiding evidence and lying and a win-at-all-costs mentality. That is bad and wrong, and they are bad and wrong for doing it. They may be influenced by a broken system and bad supervision and a culture that makes them thing it's okay, but "just following orders" has never been an acceptable excuse, and most of the prosecutors I know are bad people. That said, I agree that you should pretend to like them and make nice with them and always, yourself, be as above-board as possible, because it will get you better plea deals and make the prosecutors take you seriously when you say, "this client is actually innocent and you will not win this trial." You want to build up credibility with them. Which is surprisingly easy to do considering how slimy and dishonest most of them are.
The bottom line is that this is one of the hardest, most stressful, craziest jobs there is. When I first started, I was also binge-watching Grey's Anatomy (because I didn't have the energy to consume media with any actual substance), and all the times they talked about being terrified that they'd accidentally killed someone really resonated with me. Because that is what it's like. Your job is very important, and the little decisions you make can change the course of someone else's life forever, for better or for worse. That's what's great about it, but it can also eat you alive.
Seriously, MeMail me. Let's be friends. But above all, know that you are okay, and that it will get better. :-)
posted by decathecting at 9:40 AM on January 5, 2015 [17 favorites]
But no matter what, just know that this is very, very normal. For the first six months I had my job, literally all of my dreams were nightmares about my work, about having missed something, about accidentally screwing over a client by making a bad mistake, about being unprepared for court, etc. It does get better. And it gets better more quickly than you might expect. And all of your colleagues who are new at this, even the ones who seem totally together and organized and calm, are secretly freaking the fuck out. I promise.
Getting Things Done has saved my life. I don't do all of it, but here are the parts that are most important in our job:
- have one to-do list, and keep it in one place, preferably the same place as your calendar. I use an electronic calendar, so I have an ironclad rule that the first thing I do when I get back from court is unload all the files I've just frantically scribbled in and log all of my due dates and next hearings and whatever in my electronic calendar (actually, the first thing I do when I get back from court is change out of my suit, but the calendar thing is second, always).
- write everything down, and store all the written stuff in your file. Ev. Don't try to keep stuff in your head, or in your phone, or wherever. Write down what happens in court, and write down all the phone numbers you get and write down the names of everyone you speak to. Keep that all in your file. Even if the file itself isn't well organized, it's good to know that all of your info is in there.
- Do not keep a "to file" pile on your desk. Everything goes immediately into its case file. If you make a plan to file it later, you never will, and then you will lose stuff, and that's really bad.
- Just do something. Do your best to let go of asking yourself whether you are making optimal use of your time, and just do something. Doing even the least urgent item on your to-do list is better than procrastinating, so go ahead and do that.
- Let go of environmentalism. At least at work, accept that you will waste a ton of paper and file folders and whatnot. By all means, reuse and recycle, but give yourself permission to write one sentence on a piece of paper and file it, without worrying that you are killing trees. You are, and that's probably bad, but it's less important than your clients' safety and liberty and your sanity.
- Remind yourself that your phone/email/etc. are for your convenience, not for the convenience of people who are trying to contact you. You absolutely have to screen your calls. I have about an hour a day when I take phone calls. I have a Google Voice number for clients, and I let them and their families know at the start that text is usually the fastest way to reach me (and if your client base is anything like mine, they prefer text to voice too), and that allows me to text back, "Hey, is this urgent? Or can I call you back at 5 today when I have more time to talk?" Set up appointments for phone calls (like, "hey, I can't talk now for very long, but I can talk for at least 30 minutes at 10am tomorrow") just like you would for an office visit. And try not to feel guilty if you tell a little white lie like, "I'm about to run to court," to cut a conversation short when it's no longer productive, especially when you're talking about pissed off family members or other people you don't actually represent. Your responsibility is to give your clients the best representation you can. It is not to make their moms happy. Prioritize the former over the latter.
I agree with the DA who posted above that you can't be trying to change the system. In addition to being impossible, it's also not fair to your clients. Each client deserves a lawyer who is trying to make her/his individual situation better, and if you're thinking about the system, you're not putting that client first. What's good for your client may be bad for criminal justice reform writ large and that's ok. It's someone else's job to fix the system. Your job is to help your individual client.
I disagree with the DA above that prosecutors are just good people doing their best. And we're just going to have to agree to disagree about that, because I doubt I'm going to change his mind. Nearly all of the prosecutors where I work are actively scheming to break the rules and the law to put people in prison. The culture at their office encourages Brady violations and unfair dealing and hiding evidence and lying and a win-at-all-costs mentality. That is bad and wrong, and they are bad and wrong for doing it. They may be influenced by a broken system and bad supervision and a culture that makes them thing it's okay, but "just following orders" has never been an acceptable excuse, and most of the prosecutors I know are bad people. That said, I agree that you should pretend to like them and make nice with them and always, yourself, be as above-board as possible, because it will get you better plea deals and make the prosecutors take you seriously when you say, "this client is actually innocent and you will not win this trial." You want to build up credibility with them. Which is surprisingly easy to do considering how slimy and dishonest most of them are.
The bottom line is that this is one of the hardest, most stressful, craziest jobs there is. When I first started, I was also binge-watching Grey's Anatomy (because I didn't have the energy to consume media with any actual substance), and all the times they talked about being terrified that they'd accidentally killed someone really resonated with me. Because that is what it's like. Your job is very important, and the little decisions you make can change the course of someone else's life forever, for better or for worse. That's what's great about it, but it can also eat you alive.
Seriously, MeMail me. Let's be friends. But above all, know that you are okay, and that it will get better. :-)
posted by decathecting at 9:40 AM on January 5, 2015 [17 favorites]
You are not alone in this. You have compassion fatigue and that's totally normal for someone in your job. I am a former traffic prosecutor married to a defense attorney and I get what you're feeling, I really do.
Your calendar has to be your bible. Figure out a system that works for you and stick with it. Mr. NotJustTheFish writes all hearing dates on the front cover of his file, and calendars them electronically and on a paper calendar the minute he returns to his office. I used to write them on the inside cover of my file, and immediately create an electronic appointment on my calendar as well. Also, accept the fact you can control your calendar but you can't control your client's. You can't make them show up for court, and if you notified (or attempted to notify) them of the hearing date, you did your job. My husband does a lot of PD work and spends most of his time tilting at windmills and trying to find his clients. When you get a big win, write it down somewhere so you remember. That way, the next time you have a client get a bench warrant or an angry girlfriend start yelling at you for not doing a better job, you can remember that acquittal and why you do this.
You need a hobby that isn't lawyerish too. We have a standing bar trivia date with our friends. Even when I'm overwhelmed at work, I make it most weeks because it's good to be around other people who aren't lawyers and get out in the "real world."
You are doing important work that matters, but taking care of yourself is also important work that matters. Make sure you find time each week to do some basic self-care because if you aren't in good shape, you can't fight as hard for your clients.
If you have EAP through work, I'd encourage you to use it. Cognitive behavioral therapy did a world of good for my anxiety. I still have anxiety disorder and I'm going to have it every day of my life, but the thought pattern that causes my anxiety is the same thought pattern that makes me an awesome attorney.
Me-mail me if you want to talk more. I'm six years into this, my husband is 10 years in, and I promise you we both feel like we're faking it about half the time. That's okay.
posted by notjustthefish at 12:02 PM on January 5, 2015
Your calendar has to be your bible. Figure out a system that works for you and stick with it. Mr. NotJustTheFish writes all hearing dates on the front cover of his file, and calendars them electronically and on a paper calendar the minute he returns to his office. I used to write them on the inside cover of my file, and immediately create an electronic appointment on my calendar as well. Also, accept the fact you can control your calendar but you can't control your client's. You can't make them show up for court, and if you notified (or attempted to notify) them of the hearing date, you did your job. My husband does a lot of PD work and spends most of his time tilting at windmills and trying to find his clients. When you get a big win, write it down somewhere so you remember. That way, the next time you have a client get a bench warrant or an angry girlfriend start yelling at you for not doing a better job, you can remember that acquittal and why you do this.
You need a hobby that isn't lawyerish too. We have a standing bar trivia date with our friends. Even when I'm overwhelmed at work, I make it most weeks because it's good to be around other people who aren't lawyers and get out in the "real world."
You are doing important work that matters, but taking care of yourself is also important work that matters. Make sure you find time each week to do some basic self-care because if you aren't in good shape, you can't fight as hard for your clients.
If you have EAP through work, I'd encourage you to use it. Cognitive behavioral therapy did a world of good for my anxiety. I still have anxiety disorder and I'm going to have it every day of my life, but the thought pattern that causes my anxiety is the same thought pattern that makes me an awesome attorney.
Me-mail me if you want to talk more. I'm six years into this, my husband is 10 years in, and I promise you we both feel like we're faking it about half the time. That's okay.
posted by notjustthefish at 12:02 PM on January 5, 2015
I wish you had a throwaway so I wouldn't have to tell the internet about having been a young overwhelmed attorney who has spent more than one evening crying in the bathtub.
I'm not a public defender, but I am a government attorney now and I was previously in private practice and most of my cases were appointed criminal defense work.
First - accept that the system is a joke. That sounds so jaded, but once you accept this, you'll stop being anxious and frustrated by asshole prosecutors and tantrum-based judges. Just because you can accept that the system is a joke doesn't mean you have to give up any hope you had in doing your job well and seeing justice served. But you can't fix every problem in every court room your first day on the job; you can only make sure that the system is as small a joke as possible for each of your clients and you can do that by taking care of yourself and being careful with how you approach.
Second - do your job, well. Figure out your time management - even though I'm not in private practice anymore, I track my time as though I were billing. It helps me keep track of projects and priorities. I just use a spread sheet in Excel that I keep running on my desk top.
Create templates and boiler responses for all of the initial defense work - in my jurisdiction, that was an appearance, a discovery demand, a proof of service and a stipulation for electronic service. I created in in a Word form so I could just tab over the specifics with the defendant's name.
Third - know the rules like the back of your hand. Don't worry about every aspect of every stage of a criminal proceeding right now, just focus on what you do every day. Memorize the rules for arraignment, pretrials and prelims. Carry the rule book with you; this will help you recognize when things start to go awry and nip problems in the bud.
Fourth - be polite and professional, but be professional. Absolutely insist on having things done by the book. Prosecutors are also busy and sometimes cut corners, not in major due process ways, but in dropping papers by chambers on the way to the courtroom instead of serving you ahead of time or by sending a redacted police report because someone lost the first copy. Absolutely insist on compliance with the rules at every interaction, while complying with them yourself; this will save you time down the road when prosecutors know what to expect when your name comes up on a case.
Fifth - don't act afraid. File the motion, make the argument, raise the objection, as long as you have a reasonable basis. Podiums and briefcases can hide shaking knees and hands.
Sixth - be nice. Always, always, always be polite and professional to judges and to court administrators - clerks, bailiffs, recorders. If a prosecutor's an asshole, you can be pretty sure these folks have noticed and building relationships with them can get you a set of eyes and ears closer to the chambers should things start to get hinky in the back halls. "Being nice" doesn't mean being a doormat; if a prosecutor or client is stressing you out, seriously, just walk away and return to the situation when your head is clear.
Finally - take time off. Leave shit at work, don't bring it home. I know, you're like, I'll just do that one motion after dinner, but seriously - do you? Or does your laptop sit in the corner and make you feel guilty while you cry in the bathtub? And if you do - how good is the motion, and do you just have to do it again the next day? You must insist on time for yourself. Save your PTO; pick a vacation week, block it off and inform the staff and court that you will be unavailable completely, then use your PTO and leave your cell at home.
If you have the money for it, hire a lawn care company (the same one to snow plow, if applicable) and a house cleaner. Ask the house cleaner if they're game to do your grocery shopping, dog walking, or even some light cooking. You might be surprised.
I'm just getting out of a spiral for feeling terribly guilty that I cannot keep my house clean and have a home cooked meal every night when I'm working 70+ hours a week. Apparently, that's an unrealistic expectation according to my therapist. Speaking of which, check out your state bar for discrete and confidential resources on stress management and mental health self care - more and more state bars are getting the message that it's better to help their attorneys than shame them into self-medicating with booze and coke.
Good luck, anonymous. You're not alone. Someday, we shall retire.
posted by mibo at 12:16 PM on January 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'm not a public defender, but I am a government attorney now and I was previously in private practice and most of my cases were appointed criminal defense work.
First - accept that the system is a joke. That sounds so jaded, but once you accept this, you'll stop being anxious and frustrated by asshole prosecutors and tantrum-based judges. Just because you can accept that the system is a joke doesn't mean you have to give up any hope you had in doing your job well and seeing justice served. But you can't fix every problem in every court room your first day on the job; you can only make sure that the system is as small a joke as possible for each of your clients and you can do that by taking care of yourself and being careful with how you approach.
Second - do your job, well. Figure out your time management - even though I'm not in private practice anymore, I track my time as though I were billing. It helps me keep track of projects and priorities. I just use a spread sheet in Excel that I keep running on my desk top.
Create templates and boiler responses for all of the initial defense work - in my jurisdiction, that was an appearance, a discovery demand, a proof of service and a stipulation for electronic service. I created in in a Word form so I could just tab over the specifics with the defendant's name.
Third - know the rules like the back of your hand. Don't worry about every aspect of every stage of a criminal proceeding right now, just focus on what you do every day. Memorize the rules for arraignment, pretrials and prelims. Carry the rule book with you; this will help you recognize when things start to go awry and nip problems in the bud.
Fourth - be polite and professional, but be professional. Absolutely insist on having things done by the book. Prosecutors are also busy and sometimes cut corners, not in major due process ways, but in dropping papers by chambers on the way to the courtroom instead of serving you ahead of time or by sending a redacted police report because someone lost the first copy. Absolutely insist on compliance with the rules at every interaction, while complying with them yourself; this will save you time down the road when prosecutors know what to expect when your name comes up on a case.
Fifth - don't act afraid. File the motion, make the argument, raise the objection, as long as you have a reasonable basis. Podiums and briefcases can hide shaking knees and hands.
Sixth - be nice. Always, always, always be polite and professional to judges and to court administrators - clerks, bailiffs, recorders. If a prosecutor's an asshole, you can be pretty sure these folks have noticed and building relationships with them can get you a set of eyes and ears closer to the chambers should things start to get hinky in the back halls. "Being nice" doesn't mean being a doormat; if a prosecutor or client is stressing you out, seriously, just walk away and return to the situation when your head is clear.
Finally - take time off. Leave shit at work, don't bring it home. I know, you're like, I'll just do that one motion after dinner, but seriously - do you? Or does your laptop sit in the corner and make you feel guilty while you cry in the bathtub? And if you do - how good is the motion, and do you just have to do it again the next day? You must insist on time for yourself. Save your PTO; pick a vacation week, block it off and inform the staff and court that you will be unavailable completely, then use your PTO and leave your cell at home.
If you have the money for it, hire a lawn care company (the same one to snow plow, if applicable) and a house cleaner. Ask the house cleaner if they're game to do your grocery shopping, dog walking, or even some light cooking. You might be surprised.
I'm just getting out of a spiral for feeling terribly guilty that I cannot keep my house clean and have a home cooked meal every night when I'm working 70+ hours a week. Apparently, that's an unrealistic expectation according to my therapist. Speaking of which, check out your state bar for discrete and confidential resources on stress management and mental health self care - more and more state bars are getting the message that it's better to help their attorneys than shame them into self-medicating with booze and coke.
Good luck, anonymous. You're not alone. Someday, we shall retire.
posted by mibo at 12:16 PM on January 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
there's a lot of great advice above about surviving in this kind of workplace. EAP is great and anxiety medication is a help and setting a boundary between work time and personal time is key to being able to really work during work time. don't start drinking to deal with the anxiety.
this is going to be the unpopular answer, but from one attorney working in government to another: is this **really** your dream job? for years i thought i wanted to do a Thing but it turns out that's a recipe for misery for me. not because i'm incapable or not bright enough or not hardworking or not motivated by the cause - but because i have a brain prone to anxiety and depression and i was immersed in a powerfully dysfunctional environment that made me sicker and sicker until i rage-quit with nothing lined up.
mercifully i found a job in a different organization two months later. it's not my dream job. i wouldn't do it for free. but in the last month or so, while adjusting to this new place, i felt better than i have in YEARS, and i mourn for all the time i was mired in anxiety and near-paralyzing depression trying to force myself to function in a setting where living a healthy, balanced life is impossible. (since i left, five or six of my former coworkers also jumped ship for similar reasons and/or higher pay. so it might not even just be my brain.)
posted by zdravo at 12:55 PM on January 5, 2015
this is going to be the unpopular answer, but from one attorney working in government to another: is this **really** your dream job? for years i thought i wanted to do a Thing but it turns out that's a recipe for misery for me. not because i'm incapable or not bright enough or not hardworking or not motivated by the cause - but because i have a brain prone to anxiety and depression and i was immersed in a powerfully dysfunctional environment that made me sicker and sicker until i rage-quit with nothing lined up.
mercifully i found a job in a different organization two months later. it's not my dream job. i wouldn't do it for free. but in the last month or so, while adjusting to this new place, i felt better than i have in YEARS, and i mourn for all the time i was mired in anxiety and near-paralyzing depression trying to force myself to function in a setting where living a healthy, balanced life is impossible. (since i left, five or six of my former coworkers also jumped ship for similar reasons and/or higher pay. so it might not even just be my brain.)
posted by zdravo at 12:55 PM on January 5, 2015
Zdravo said:
for years i thought i wanted to do a Thing but it turns out that's a recipe for misery for me. not because i'm incapable or not bright enough or not hardworking or not motivated by the cause - but because i have a brain prone to anxiety and depression and i was immersed in a powerfully dysfunctional environment that made me sicker and sicker until i rage-quit with nothing lined up.
... i mourn for all the time i was mired in anxiety and near-paralyzing depression trying to force myself to function in a setting where living a healthy, balanced life is impossible.
I am not a PD, but I do work in a similarly screwed up public system as a public servant. I have dealt with depression (and still am??) and am extremely anxiety-prone.
Here is my story:
I worked in this public sector job for 2.5 years out of school, because I was CONVINCED that it was my life's calling. I dreamed about it when I wasn't doing it, and constantly had ideas about how to improve my practice. But in reality? I quote zdravo again: I was mired in anxiety and near-paralyzing depression trying to force myself to function in a setting where living a healthy, balanced life is impossible. I finally quit my job when the stress of being asked to serve the public in a dysfunctional system that was actively working against me and the public because enough that I would literally lay in bed at night hoping I would die in the middle of the night so I didn't have to go to work the next day.
I ending up quitting abruptly and spending 6 weeks in intensive outpatient therapy and really, really wanting to die to just get away from it all. The guilt, the shame of quitting, the paralyzing thoughts of the clients I failed.
I got a new, much lower-stress job with a nonprofit. I felt unfulfilled and like I wasn't REALLY "serving the public" and "changing the system" the way I wanted to. So a year and half after quitting the first job, I went back to the same field.
I took a job in the same field, but with a slightly lower-stress location of employment. And it was great for the first 6 months... until just this week, when the stress and anxiety and near-paralyzing depression of unrealistic expectations, and to much to do, and never-ending mountains of sometimes-pointless work have started building up to the point that I have spent about 2 hours crying today and am procrastinating doing the work I brought home by answering this question on mefi. And I will stay up toxically late because going to bed means that I have to wake up and go to work tomorrow.
TL;DR: Think very carefully about whether your mental health, or your dream career, is more important to you. I highly value the idea of my profession... and I have friends and co-workers who manage to work sanely in this terrible system... but I am beginning to see that my personality just isn't cut out for this job that I wish I could do. And that someone needs to do! But that someone probably isn't me.
posted by raspberrE at 5:56 PM on January 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
for years i thought i wanted to do a Thing but it turns out that's a recipe for misery for me. not because i'm incapable or not bright enough or not hardworking or not motivated by the cause - but because i have a brain prone to anxiety and depression and i was immersed in a powerfully dysfunctional environment that made me sicker and sicker until i rage-quit with nothing lined up.
... i mourn for all the time i was mired in anxiety and near-paralyzing depression trying to force myself to function in a setting where living a healthy, balanced life is impossible.
I am not a PD, but I do work in a similarly screwed up public system as a public servant. I have dealt with depression (and still am??) and am extremely anxiety-prone.
Here is my story:
I worked in this public sector job for 2.5 years out of school, because I was CONVINCED that it was my life's calling. I dreamed about it when I wasn't doing it, and constantly had ideas about how to improve my practice. But in reality? I quote zdravo again: I was mired in anxiety and near-paralyzing depression trying to force myself to function in a setting where living a healthy, balanced life is impossible. I finally quit my job when the stress of being asked to serve the public in a dysfunctional system that was actively working against me and the public because enough that I would literally lay in bed at night hoping I would die in the middle of the night so I didn't have to go to work the next day.
I ending up quitting abruptly and spending 6 weeks in intensive outpatient therapy and really, really wanting to die to just get away from it all. The guilt, the shame of quitting, the paralyzing thoughts of the clients I failed.
I got a new, much lower-stress job with a nonprofit. I felt unfulfilled and like I wasn't REALLY "serving the public" and "changing the system" the way I wanted to. So a year and half after quitting the first job, I went back to the same field.
I took a job in the same field, but with a slightly lower-stress location of employment. And it was great for the first 6 months... until just this week, when the stress and anxiety and near-paralyzing depression of unrealistic expectations, and to much to do, and never-ending mountains of sometimes-pointless work have started building up to the point that I have spent about 2 hours crying today and am procrastinating doing the work I brought home by answering this question on mefi. And I will stay up toxically late because going to bed means that I have to wake up and go to work tomorrow.
TL;DR: Think very carefully about whether your mental health, or your dream career, is more important to you. I highly value the idea of my profession... and I have friends and co-workers who manage to work sanely in this terrible system... but I am beginning to see that my personality just isn't cut out for this job that I wish I could do. And that someone needs to do! But that someone probably isn't me.
posted by raspberrE at 5:56 PM on January 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh, and I REALLY want to emphasize this that zdravo said:
not because i'm incapable or not bright enough or not hardworking or not motivated by the cause - but because i have a brain prone to anxiety and depression and i was immersed in a powerfully dysfunctional environment that made me sicker and sicker until i rage-quit with nothing lined up.
When I quit, I really struggled with the shame that I had friends and coworkers who I thought were more capable, or bright, or hardworking, or motivated than me - until my husband pointed out that if I had, say, cancer (or any other visible disease - depression is invisible), that no one would expect me to do this extremely difficult, mentally and physically and emotionally taxing job. Instead, I needed to quit working, get treatment, and recover, just like a cancer patient.
posted by raspberrE at 5:59 PM on January 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
not because i'm incapable or not bright enough or not hardworking or not motivated by the cause - but because i have a brain prone to anxiety and depression and i was immersed in a powerfully dysfunctional environment that made me sicker and sicker until i rage-quit with nothing lined up.
When I quit, I really struggled with the shame that I had friends and coworkers who I thought were more capable, or bright, or hardworking, or motivated than me - until my husband pointed out that if I had, say, cancer (or any other visible disease - depression is invisible), that no one would expect me to do this extremely difficult, mentally and physically and emotionally taxing job. Instead, I needed to quit working, get treatment, and recover, just like a cancer patient.
posted by raspberrE at 5:59 PM on January 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
I agree with everyone who says that if it's not for you, there's no shame in quitting and choosing a different career, even if you always thought this was what I want to do.
But I also think that in PD work, there is little to no correlation between people who have panic attacks in their first year of practice and people who aren't cut out for the job. There are plenty of people who are less stressed than you seem to be who end up not being able to keep doing the work, and plenty of people who are more stressed than you are who get the hang of it in the first year or two, and keep doing the work for a decade or more.
In other words, absolutely don't beat yourself up if you end up deciding to quit. But also, don't quit just because it's hard right now. Because it's hard at this stage for absolutely everyone, and the fact that you're overwhelmed and panicked and stressed out doesn't mean that it will always be this way. Six months or a year from now, you may feel totally different. Stick it out until at least the year mark, and I promise that it will get much easier and better. You may still ultimately decide you want to move on to something else, but at least you'll know that it was because you decided on your own to do something else, not because you didn't give yourself enough time to get over the initial, very steep learning curve.
posted by decathecting at 8:54 PM on January 5, 2015
But I also think that in PD work, there is little to no correlation between people who have panic attacks in their first year of practice and people who aren't cut out for the job. There are plenty of people who are less stressed than you seem to be who end up not being able to keep doing the work, and plenty of people who are more stressed than you are who get the hang of it in the first year or two, and keep doing the work for a decade or more.
In other words, absolutely don't beat yourself up if you end up deciding to quit. But also, don't quit just because it's hard right now. Because it's hard at this stage for absolutely everyone, and the fact that you're overwhelmed and panicked and stressed out doesn't mean that it will always be this way. Six months or a year from now, you may feel totally different. Stick it out until at least the year mark, and I promise that it will get much easier and better. You may still ultimately decide you want to move on to something else, but at least you'll know that it was because you decided on your own to do something else, not because you didn't give yourself enough time to get over the initial, very steep learning curve.
posted by decathecting at 8:54 PM on January 5, 2015
I'm you, exactly two years later, having left law school straight for the dream job as a PD. I still freak the fuck out about things, but in a somewhat more managed and productive way, so it does get better. Everything decathecting said is absolutely correct. MeMail me if you ever want to chat.
posted by SpringAquifer at 5:19 AM on January 6, 2015
posted by SpringAquifer at 5:19 AM on January 6, 2015
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Are you on any medication for your anxiety disorder? A small regular nightly dose of something like clonazepam (Klonopin) might do a lot to dampen your anxiety while you get used to your new job and then you can taper off it later once you've got a better handle on it. I was on 1 mg/night during a bad couple of years and then went off it ~2 years ago after things settled down. It made a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in my ability to function.
Meanwhile, I think you need someone to vent to who isn't a coworker and ideally isn't also a personal friend (friends get sick of it after a while). So I encourage you to find a counselor or anonymous online support group. I agree that constantly complaining to colleagues runs the risk of making you look bad or just be a drag to talk to.
Also, can you find a mentor? Someone who has been a career public defender for decades? If there is no one like that in your district who has time for you, perhaps via a professional organization? Not for venting to, but for asking for specific advice on how to handle the challenges you described in your post.
If you find it difficult to get your job done on less than 10 hours/day for now -- FOR NOW because as you get more experience at your job, things should take you less time, so don't plan on working this many hours forever -- then perhaps you could find ways to streamline the rest of your life so that the not-fun personal chores (errands, shopping, meal prep, commuting, personal financial management, etc.) take up less time so that your work + personal chores time combined is still low enough to leave you adequate time for sleep and relaxation. And if you've got a long commute that you can't shorten, try to find a way to convert it to relaxation time -- read novels on public transit or listen to fun books on tape or podcasts while you drive.
Thank you so much for being a public defender. Your job is incredibly important not only to your clients but the functioning of society at large. I really admire what you do -- hang in there and keep fighting the good fight! :)
posted by Jacqueline at 11:57 PM on January 4, 2015 [7 favorites]