How to deal with a roommate who doesn't lock the door leading outside?
October 23, 2014 10:01 PM Subscribe
I live in a shared house (not a college dorm) with 8 others. I am the only woman in the house. One of my roommates refuses to lock the door going outside despite my respectful, reasonable requests to keep the house secure and locked, and he has acted rudely towards me. I emailed the landlord but haven't heard back yet. What should I do?
I live in the basement of a shared house in an area with the occasional shifty-person wandering the streets or yelling as they walk by. Regardless, I feel it is common sense and in the best interest of personal safety (and material safety) to keep the doors in the house leading outside locked. I especially feel vulnerable, being a woman, and the fact that a man once approached me in his car when I was alone at the bus stop, asking me to get in his car. All of the guys keep the outside doors locked and are very respectful, except for my roommate who lives in the room right next to mine, who will henceforth in this question be referred to as Bob.
As the youngest, Bob just turned 18, and he is rather immature. Most of the others in the house, including myself, are 5-10 years older than him, to give an idea of our background. He's an international student and is rather spoiled by his mom, who pays his rent, as he goes to school, so it seems he's used to getting his way. He doesn't clean after himself in common areas, and he is inconsiderate of noise levels at night, as he has wild shenanigans with his friends that I can hear in the next room over. He hasn't exactly been easy to live with, especially as he smokes indoors, which is against the rules of our lease and is irritating to me.
I live in the basement, and in this old, creaky house, sounds are very easily heard. This is especially true for doors opening/closing, and in that regard, Bob slams doors, no matter if it's the front door upstairs or the bathroom door in the basement. So, I can hear him slamming the basement door (so hard it makes the windows and door in my room rattle) and walk to his room, slamming that door too behind him. I noticed by accident once that he didn't lock the basement door after he came in once, and after some time, after I realized how loudly he slams the door, I noticed he never locks the door when he comes in from outside.
This bothers me. It just seems like common sense to lock the door to keep the people inside and the house itself safe. I first started to raise this issue by leaving polite notes on the door to remind my roommates to keep the outside doors locked. It didn't change Bob, so I sent him a very polite email, stating that if he could please lock the door, I would appreciate it. Nothing changed still, and I got no response from him, so about a month later, (yesterday) I asked him in person if he could do that, and he said the door locks automatically. This is not true. The upstairs front door does, but not the basement door. I stated that the door does not lock automatically. He refuted my statement. This went back and forth another time, to which I said, if you could please just make sure it is locked that would be great. He said he would try to do so.
Today after work, I came home to see the basement door once again unlocked. I went over and locked it and thought I heard someone outside, so I opened it in case it was one of my roommates and they didn't have a key (which I now realize wasn't smart, in case it was someone sketchy outside). It was Bob, smoking outside this time. "Oh sorry," I said, and then I remembered that yesterday, I didn't recall that the front door locks by itself, so I thought to make that distinction to him so he could understand, in case he was confusing which door locks by itself, and kind of in a "hey I want to be helpful, the front door locks but not the basement door" way. I did so in a conversational, friendly manner. Bob got testy with me and asked me what my problem was and why I care. He asked me if I don't lock my bedroom door. "No, I do," I told him, and I tried to explain to him why it's important to keep the door locked, so that strangers don't get in, nothing gets stolen, people are safe, we still have to leave our rooms to use the bathroom, kitchen, etc. He very rudely said, "I don't have to do what you say!" And I said, no you dont, but does he understand why I want to keep the door locked? He said it doesn't matter, since my bedroom door is locked and told me that "I'm not going to lock it. It locks automatically. If you want to lock it, you do it! Don't bother me, I'm trying to smoke! Go talk to the landlord!" To which I reiterated that it does not in fact lock automatically and I told him I thought he was rude. He said "I think you're rude! Go away!" and slammed the door in my face.
I promptly sent an email to my landlord, asking if he could do or say anything to Bob, but I haven't heard from him yet. Bob was really disrespectful and immature. I want him to be evicted, because he doesn't care about keeping the roommates and the house we live in safe by just taking a simple one-second step to lock the door, and he is breaking the lease agreement by smoking in his room. I don't know how the other roommates feel- we are all together for financial reasons of low rent and keep to ourselves, aren't friends with each other, etc.
What can I do here? I feel like living in a house that has open doors is something I'm not comfortable with, but I don't want to move to another place soon because I'm planning on relocating for a job in a few months, so it would be a hassle, as I had a hard time finding a place to rent to begin with. Help? Thank you Hive Mind.
I live in the basement of a shared house in an area with the occasional shifty-person wandering the streets or yelling as they walk by. Regardless, I feel it is common sense and in the best interest of personal safety (and material safety) to keep the doors in the house leading outside locked. I especially feel vulnerable, being a woman, and the fact that a man once approached me in his car when I was alone at the bus stop, asking me to get in his car. All of the guys keep the outside doors locked and are very respectful, except for my roommate who lives in the room right next to mine, who will henceforth in this question be referred to as Bob.
As the youngest, Bob just turned 18, and he is rather immature. Most of the others in the house, including myself, are 5-10 years older than him, to give an idea of our background. He's an international student and is rather spoiled by his mom, who pays his rent, as he goes to school, so it seems he's used to getting his way. He doesn't clean after himself in common areas, and he is inconsiderate of noise levels at night, as he has wild shenanigans with his friends that I can hear in the next room over. He hasn't exactly been easy to live with, especially as he smokes indoors, which is against the rules of our lease and is irritating to me.
I live in the basement, and in this old, creaky house, sounds are very easily heard. This is especially true for doors opening/closing, and in that regard, Bob slams doors, no matter if it's the front door upstairs or the bathroom door in the basement. So, I can hear him slamming the basement door (so hard it makes the windows and door in my room rattle) and walk to his room, slamming that door too behind him. I noticed by accident once that he didn't lock the basement door after he came in once, and after some time, after I realized how loudly he slams the door, I noticed he never locks the door when he comes in from outside.
This bothers me. It just seems like common sense to lock the door to keep the people inside and the house itself safe. I first started to raise this issue by leaving polite notes on the door to remind my roommates to keep the outside doors locked. It didn't change Bob, so I sent him a very polite email, stating that if he could please lock the door, I would appreciate it. Nothing changed still, and I got no response from him, so about a month later, (yesterday) I asked him in person if he could do that, and he said the door locks automatically. This is not true. The upstairs front door does, but not the basement door. I stated that the door does not lock automatically. He refuted my statement. This went back and forth another time, to which I said, if you could please just make sure it is locked that would be great. He said he would try to do so.
Today after work, I came home to see the basement door once again unlocked. I went over and locked it and thought I heard someone outside, so I opened it in case it was one of my roommates and they didn't have a key (which I now realize wasn't smart, in case it was someone sketchy outside). It was Bob, smoking outside this time. "Oh sorry," I said, and then I remembered that yesterday, I didn't recall that the front door locks by itself, so I thought to make that distinction to him so he could understand, in case he was confusing which door locks by itself, and kind of in a "hey I want to be helpful, the front door locks but not the basement door" way. I did so in a conversational, friendly manner. Bob got testy with me and asked me what my problem was and why I care. He asked me if I don't lock my bedroom door. "No, I do," I told him, and I tried to explain to him why it's important to keep the door locked, so that strangers don't get in, nothing gets stolen, people are safe, we still have to leave our rooms to use the bathroom, kitchen, etc. He very rudely said, "I don't have to do what you say!" And I said, no you dont, but does he understand why I want to keep the door locked? He said it doesn't matter, since my bedroom door is locked and told me that "I'm not going to lock it. It locks automatically. If you want to lock it, you do it! Don't bother me, I'm trying to smoke! Go talk to the landlord!" To which I reiterated that it does not in fact lock automatically and I told him I thought he was rude. He said "I think you're rude! Go away!" and slammed the door in my face.
I promptly sent an email to my landlord, asking if he could do or say anything to Bob, but I haven't heard from him yet. Bob was really disrespectful and immature. I want him to be evicted, because he doesn't care about keeping the roommates and the house we live in safe by just taking a simple one-second step to lock the door, and he is breaking the lease agreement by smoking in his room. I don't know how the other roommates feel- we are all together for financial reasons of low rent and keep to ourselves, aren't friends with each other, etc.
What can I do here? I feel like living in a house that has open doors is something I'm not comfortable with, but I don't want to move to another place soon because I'm planning on relocating for a job in a few months, so it would be a hassle, as I had a hard time finding a place to rent to begin with. Help? Thank you Hive Mind.
I'd call the landlord and tell him that the combination of doors that don't lock automatically + Bob's failure to abide by the house rules are creating a dangerous situation in the house. If I were the landlord, I'd evict Bob for smoking anyway, but even more so if I thought I was going to someday be liable for another tenant being attacked because the house was unsecured. Landlord can choose between evicting Bob or fixing the doors so they do lock automatically.
Might be useful to check local crime stats before you make this call. If you can truthfully say there have been burglaries in the neighborhood, landlord may pay more attention.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:22 PM on October 23, 2014 [9 favorites]
Might be useful to check local crime stats before you make this call. If you can truthfully say there have been burglaries in the neighborhood, landlord may pay more attention.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:22 PM on October 23, 2014 [9 favorites]
does the door to bob's room lock?
bet you he'd start locking the exterior doors if he got robbed or came home to a room that looked like it was robbed.
if you can afford it, get renter's insurance for yourself. it's really cheap and at least covers your belongings even if you don't keep them in your room at all times (covers stuff like phones, laptops, bike).
or ask your landlord in writing to repair exterior doors so that they lock automatically, which is standard.
posted by zdravo at 10:24 PM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
bet you he'd start locking the exterior doors if he got robbed or came home to a room that looked like it was robbed.
if you can afford it, get renter's insurance for yourself. it's really cheap and at least covers your belongings even if you don't keep them in your room at all times (covers stuff like phones, laptops, bike).
or ask your landlord in writing to repair exterior doors so that they lock automatically, which is standard.
posted by zdravo at 10:24 PM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
Hopefully you can get him evicted over the smoking, especially if you can convince the landlord it's a recurring problem and not a one-off event. Are you keeping a log of when he smokes in the house (or the other inappropriate behaviour)? Can the other roommates verify your story with the landlord?
The bad news, though, is that depending on the jurisdiction, it might take a month or two for the eviction process to conclude. So you might want to consider other options.
Maybe have a talk with your roommates. If Bob bugs them, they can talk to him, too. He seems like the kind of guy who's maybe a bit sexist and doesn't respond to feedback from women.
posted by Banknote of the year at 10:24 PM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
The bad news, though, is that depending on the jurisdiction, it might take a month or two for the eviction process to conclude. So you might want to consider other options.
Maybe have a talk with your roommates. If Bob bugs them, they can talk to him, too. He seems like the kind of guy who's maybe a bit sexist and doesn't respond to feedback from women.
posted by Banknote of the year at 10:24 PM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
If he smokes often enough in the room, I doubt you'd even have to "document" because the place will reek.
I do think having some other roommate try to impress him with his penis ah, might be a good idea. Is he from a place where women are treated like crap?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:32 PM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
I do think having some other roommate try to impress him with his penis ah, might be a good idea. Is he from a place where women are treated like crap?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:32 PM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
You could attempt to enlist your other housemates - who may well also dislike his smoking - but frankly, I think you should toss Bob under the bus and get his immature ass evicted, stat. The smoking should do it, I would think.
posted by doctor tough love at 10:46 PM on October 23, 2014 [19 favorites]
posted by doctor tough love at 10:46 PM on October 23, 2014 [19 favorites]
Another vote for asking your landlord to change the door mechanisms so they all lock automatically. This is probably more efficient than getting the landlord to somehow change the behavior of the door users. After that's done, you and your other housemates can tackle the larger your-housemate's-an-ass issues.
posted by charmedimsure at 10:51 PM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by charmedimsure at 10:51 PM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]
Leaving the door unlocked will invalidate any renters insurance you have.
You need to stop being nice, stop beating around the bush, stop dragging this out. "Bob, I'm not going to argue with you any more. In this country outside doors are always locked and you need to lock the door". Then when he argues and whines and whatever "I don't care, lock the door". When he starts with "I don't have to do what you tell me" then reply "Actually, yes you do, this is how it works in this country, lock the damn door". Although, really, you should have walked away before he gets to that point. Stop being dragged in, stop trying to make him like you, start asserting your rights to a secure house. If he hates you so what? He's a dick and probably already does anyway.
You really need to get all the other room mates on board also, since they are at as much risk as you are. Point out to them they aren't insured when their house isn't secured and get everyone to start riding Bob about locking the damn door. He might listen to a bunch of guys more than you, sad to say. Also keep locking it whenever you see it open, and if he's out there smoking then too bad. "This wouldn't happen, Bob, if you locked the damn door".
Keep following up with the landlord but I'd be surprised if they even care. If you can get a self locking door set up that would be best, although I would expect to find Bob propping it open or similar so he can keep smoking out there whenever he liked. So I wouldn't hold my breath for that being the answer to anything. Really, the only way to deal with this is to leave. Which it seems like you'll be doing in a few months anyway. In the meantime: "Bob, lock the door".
posted by shelleycat at 11:20 PM on October 23, 2014 [11 favorites]
You need to stop being nice, stop beating around the bush, stop dragging this out. "Bob, I'm not going to argue with you any more. In this country outside doors are always locked and you need to lock the door". Then when he argues and whines and whatever "I don't care, lock the door". When he starts with "I don't have to do what you tell me" then reply "Actually, yes you do, this is how it works in this country, lock the damn door". Although, really, you should have walked away before he gets to that point. Stop being dragged in, stop trying to make him like you, start asserting your rights to a secure house. If he hates you so what? He's a dick and probably already does anyway.
You really need to get all the other room mates on board also, since they are at as much risk as you are. Point out to them they aren't insured when their house isn't secured and get everyone to start riding Bob about locking the damn door. He might listen to a bunch of guys more than you, sad to say. Also keep locking it whenever you see it open, and if he's out there smoking then too bad. "This wouldn't happen, Bob, if you locked the damn door".
Keep following up with the landlord but I'd be surprised if they even care. If you can get a self locking door set up that would be best, although I would expect to find Bob propping it open or similar so he can keep smoking out there whenever he liked. So I wouldn't hold my breath for that being the answer to anything. Really, the only way to deal with this is to leave. Which it seems like you'll be doing in a few months anyway. In the meantime: "Bob, lock the door".
posted by shelleycat at 11:20 PM on October 23, 2014 [11 favorites]
It sounds like you and your roommates have a zillion reasons to kick Bob out, so I'd focus on just getting rid of him.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:23 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacqueline at 11:23 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yes, tell the landlord and get the other roommates on his case for being an ass. He's not taking you seriously. If I were you, I would turn into a horrible, screaming bitch. Bam on his door loudly and tell him he forgot to the lock the door AGAIN and do it EVERY SINGLE TIME the door is left unlocked. Stop being nice. Scream lock the fucking door. Again and again and again. Who gives a shit if he thinks you're crazy?
posted by shoesietart at 11:28 PM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by shoesietart at 11:28 PM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]
Eh, I think that would make him leave it actually ajar just to be spiteful, since he sounds like a giant stupid diaper baby.
I would work on getting your other roommates behind the idea of kicking this loser out of the house share and ideally into the garbage where he belongs.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:32 PM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
I would work on getting your other roommates behind the idea of kicking this loser out of the house share and ideally into the garbage where he belongs.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:32 PM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
He is an international student? How does his culture interact with females? You need to get your other housemates on your side and have a chat with Bob about this. Team up for the safety of all involved.
posted by MultiFaceted at 11:52 PM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by MultiFaceted at 11:52 PM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
Bob sounds like a pretty unhappy person, and it sounds unpleasant for anyone who has to live with him.
That having been said, notes are one of the worst ways to communicate with housemates; they are often seen as passive aggressive (maybe particularly if you try hard to word them sweetly). It's best to treat your housemates like adults and actually talk to them in person (even if they aren't acting like adults). Of course if you rarely see them in person, you have to go for other means-- but direct communication (phone, text, or email) is much less likely to be misread.
Also, your standards on locking may be higher than most, even in your area- I first assumed this was someone who did not lock the house door when leaving the house, but it sounds like you are equally concerned about not locking it when entering. Of course if you asked me in person to lock the door both ways, I'd do my best to remember, so your housemate is clearly being a jerk. But he is being a jerk because he didn't respond to your (reasonable) request, not because he is obviously violating a known standard about locking doors.
For these reasons, with your landlord, I'd focus on the smoking indoors thing. It's against your lease and it'll decrease the value of the room to the landlord. (And at least in the US, is a much more common standard.) Many landlords will refuse to get involved in other household disputes, but if someone is violating the lease, they might take action.
For your roommate, communicate in person and civilly when possible. Get one of your other housemates (sigh, yes, a male one, if Bob has a problem with women) to join you in asking him to lock the door, but stick to just that issue. One issue at a time, attention spans aren't very big.
When you hear him come in without locking, stick your head out and say "hey please lock the door". When he smokes in his room, knock on the door and say "please don't smoke in here, I can smell it and it bothers me." When he's loud past reasonable hours (reasonable may vary, again; ask your other housemates to get a consensus), knock on the door and ask them to quite down (bonus points if he has buddies over-- even if he's a clueless jerk, his friends may not be and might be better able to change his behavior than you can).
Do each of these things right after the infraction, every single time. Start out nice (there's always room for yelling later), but be relentless.
Do you know of any houses that are looking for an extra roommate and might be closer to his living style? Mention them, every time you see him. "Hey did you look at that other house yet?" He might want to leave but not know where else to go.
And above all be thankful you're leaving soon yourself. This too shall pass.
posted by nat at 1:40 AM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
That having been said, notes are one of the worst ways to communicate with housemates; they are often seen as passive aggressive (maybe particularly if you try hard to word them sweetly). It's best to treat your housemates like adults and actually talk to them in person (even if they aren't acting like adults). Of course if you rarely see them in person, you have to go for other means-- but direct communication (phone, text, or email) is much less likely to be misread.
Also, your standards on locking may be higher than most, even in your area- I first assumed this was someone who did not lock the house door when leaving the house, but it sounds like you are equally concerned about not locking it when entering. Of course if you asked me in person to lock the door both ways, I'd do my best to remember, so your housemate is clearly being a jerk. But he is being a jerk because he didn't respond to your (reasonable) request, not because he is obviously violating a known standard about locking doors.
For these reasons, with your landlord, I'd focus on the smoking indoors thing. It's against your lease and it'll decrease the value of the room to the landlord. (And at least in the US, is a much more common standard.) Many landlords will refuse to get involved in other household disputes, but if someone is violating the lease, they might take action.
For your roommate, communicate in person and civilly when possible. Get one of your other housemates (sigh, yes, a male one, if Bob has a problem with women) to join you in asking him to lock the door, but stick to just that issue. One issue at a time, attention spans aren't very big.
When you hear him come in without locking, stick your head out and say "hey please lock the door". When he smokes in his room, knock on the door and say "please don't smoke in here, I can smell it and it bothers me." When he's loud past reasonable hours (reasonable may vary, again; ask your other housemates to get a consensus), knock on the door and ask them to quite down (bonus points if he has buddies over-- even if he's a clueless jerk, his friends may not be and might be better able to change his behavior than you can).
Do each of these things right after the infraction, every single time. Start out nice (there's always room for yelling later), but be relentless.
Do you know of any houses that are looking for an extra roommate and might be closer to his living style? Mention them, every time you see him. "Hey did you look at that other house yet?" He might want to leave but not know where else to go.
And above all be thankful you're leaving soon yourself. This too shall pass.
posted by nat at 1:40 AM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Mod note: From the OP:
Thanks all for the responses so far. Bob is from Japan and would mention to me how his mom basically does everything for him, including just wiring money to him when he asks without even asking what for, so he's very entitled. I think you're right that I need to corral help from the guy roommates here to confront him about locking the door and getting him evicted. Does anyone have any tips for getting Bob out of here? How should I address this with my landlord? Thanks again.posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 2:46 AM on October 24, 2014
"Bob, 20% of women in this country are sexually assaulted. I'm not going to be next because of you. Lock the door."
Having been a landlord, evicting is inexpedient (at least in my state) since tenants are in less of a power position and are given every benefit of every doubt. I had a tenant who was in obvious violation of a half dozen clauses in the lease and it still took close to six months of due process to get them out. More likely you (collectively) are going to get charged to clean up after him. While that is not ideal from a landlord's poitn of view, it is expedient.
posted by plinth at 3:28 AM on October 24, 2014
Having been a landlord, evicting is inexpedient (at least in my state) since tenants are in less of a power position and are given every benefit of every doubt. I had a tenant who was in obvious violation of a half dozen clauses in the lease and it still took close to six months of due process to get them out. More likely you (collectively) are going to get charged to clean up after him. While that is not ideal from a landlord's poitn of view, it is expedient.
posted by plinth at 3:28 AM on October 24, 2014
When I lived in Japan, one of my friends who is a police detective here in the US came to visit. I hadn't had time to make a key to my apartment for him, so when I left for work in the morning I told him that when he went out to just leave the door unlocked. I knew it would be just fine. My friend however was very skeptical about this, so after I left, he walked down several floors in the apartment building where I lived (eleven-storied building in downtown Tokyo) randomly knocking on doors. If no one answered the door, he tried the knob. Most of the the doors were unlocked, the apartments unoccupied.
When I told my Japanese co-workers about this later, most of them told me that they didn't carry keys to their apartments, they just left them unlocked. Why? The old way into houses was sliding paper doors that anyone could walk into at any time of day. (This is still true in many old school parts of Tokyo even and especially freaked me out when I traveled around the country and stayed in traditional inns where there were no locks anywhere, including on individual rooms.) So--?
So Bob comes from one of the safest countries in the world. (And yes, sons are incredibly highly valued there and mothers do anything for them, leading to many spoiled, entitled men.) But that's not where he is now and he needs to be taught that.
How?
Japan is also a place where group harmony is highly valued and group pressure is particularly effective. In JP, I'm sure you've heard, the nail that sticks up gets hammered down. So make Bob the nail. Assemble all your housemates--the ones in agreement with you anyway--and put Bob in the spotlight. Have everyone in the house make it clear to him that his behavior (whether locking the door or smoking in his room) is completely unacceptable to everyone, not just the annoying, ignorable broad in the basement. Stress that it could lead to everyone getting in trouble and losing their damage deposit(s) not just him. (This may or may not be true, but I leave the ethics behind using it up to you.)
If that doesn't work, hit up the landlord with the smoking/nuisance complaint and get him tossed out. (Though don't be surprised if that doesn't work for some reason like his rent-plus was paid a year in advance along with some large sum of non-refundable "gift"/key money as is the norm in JP. In which case, start apartment hunting for your next place.)
posted by GoLikeHellMachine at 3:32 AM on October 24, 2014 [45 favorites]
When I told my Japanese co-workers about this later, most of them told me that they didn't carry keys to their apartments, they just left them unlocked. Why? The old way into houses was sliding paper doors that anyone could walk into at any time of day. (This is still true in many old school parts of Tokyo even and especially freaked me out when I traveled around the country and stayed in traditional inns where there were no locks anywhere, including on individual rooms.) So--?
So Bob comes from one of the safest countries in the world. (And yes, sons are incredibly highly valued there and mothers do anything for them, leading to many spoiled, entitled men.) But that's not where he is now and he needs to be taught that.
How?
Japan is also a place where group harmony is highly valued and group pressure is particularly effective. In JP, I'm sure you've heard, the nail that sticks up gets hammered down. So make Bob the nail. Assemble all your housemates--the ones in agreement with you anyway--and put Bob in the spotlight. Have everyone in the house make it clear to him that his behavior (whether locking the door or smoking in his room) is completely unacceptable to everyone, not just the annoying, ignorable broad in the basement. Stress that it could lead to everyone getting in trouble and losing their damage deposit(s) not just him. (This may or may not be true, but I leave the ethics behind using it up to you.)
If that doesn't work, hit up the landlord with the smoking/nuisance complaint and get him tossed out. (Though don't be surprised if that doesn't work for some reason like his rent-plus was paid a year in advance along with some large sum of non-refundable "gift"/key money as is the norm in JP. In which case, start apartment hunting for your next place.)
posted by GoLikeHellMachine at 3:32 AM on October 24, 2014 [45 favorites]
Honestly after dealing with multiple chode roommates over time, i think you need to do two things here, sooner is better than later.
1. Take the temperature of your other housemates and see how much they care about this. Are they bothered? Does it ACTUALLY bother them, or are they just annoyed but wouldn't want to publicly state that or get in to any kind of confrontation and would fold like a paper tiger and go "well i mean uh, idk, i wasn't going to make a big deal out of it" or whatever if you tried to rally them? Because if you end up in a situation where you're the only one truly bothered by this and they all kinda get wishy washy and back down, it's going to look like a you problem even if it really shouldn't be and everyone will write you off as having some higher than normal standard even if this is blatantly ridiculous.
2. Assuming you don't get traction on that front, i'd probably skip the landlord step. Find a new place where this isn't going on.
I regret every time i tried to herd cats and get all my roommates who privately, would not shut the fuck up about TerribleRoommate to actually collectively put their foot down and go "look dude, you need to stop doing Ridiculously Unacceptable Thing(s). We all hate it and if you don't stop we're going to have to kick you out". I got to the group intervention stage once or twice, but never actually got everyone to muscle up and go nope, you have to get the fuck out.
Every time i look back on that time period in my life i wish i had just moved out after about a month of it being a problem, and then trying to solve it and not really getting any traction. I was getting just enough support and traction that i kept thinking i'd finally roll over the top of the hill and solve the problem. It can very easily start to feel like a sunk costs thing where you think you almost have it dealt with, and the place is pretty great anyways so if you could only get that last 10% done of getting everyone who agrees with you to finally step up on tuesday when everyones home then...
So yea, try what GoLikeHellMachine says, but if you don't get any real passionate Yes Lets Confront This Right Now type response from more than like, one person, then start looking for a new place. It's so easy to become the one whiny person with standards higher than everyone else that everyone collectively ignores. Hell, he's just doing something crappy quietly, you're constantly complaining to everyone, maybe you're the annoying roommate!
It's fucking crap and gaslighty, but it happens.
posted by emptythought at 3:47 AM on October 24, 2014 [11 favorites]
1. Take the temperature of your other housemates and see how much they care about this. Are they bothered? Does it ACTUALLY bother them, or are they just annoyed but wouldn't want to publicly state that or get in to any kind of confrontation and would fold like a paper tiger and go "well i mean uh, idk, i wasn't going to make a big deal out of it" or whatever if you tried to rally them? Because if you end up in a situation where you're the only one truly bothered by this and they all kinda get wishy washy and back down, it's going to look like a you problem even if it really shouldn't be and everyone will write you off as having some higher than normal standard even if this is blatantly ridiculous.
2. Assuming you don't get traction on that front, i'd probably skip the landlord step. Find a new place where this isn't going on.
I regret every time i tried to herd cats and get all my roommates who privately, would not shut the fuck up about TerribleRoommate to actually collectively put their foot down and go "look dude, you need to stop doing Ridiculously Unacceptable Thing(s). We all hate it and if you don't stop we're going to have to kick you out". I got to the group intervention stage once or twice, but never actually got everyone to muscle up and go nope, you have to get the fuck out.
Every time i look back on that time period in my life i wish i had just moved out after about a month of it being a problem, and then trying to solve it and not really getting any traction. I was getting just enough support and traction that i kept thinking i'd finally roll over the top of the hill and solve the problem. It can very easily start to feel like a sunk costs thing where you think you almost have it dealt with, and the place is pretty great anyways so if you could only get that last 10% done of getting everyone who agrees with you to finally step up on tuesday when everyones home then...
So yea, try what GoLikeHellMachine says, but if you don't get any real passionate Yes Lets Confront This Right Now type response from more than like, one person, then start looking for a new place. It's so easy to become the one whiny person with standards higher than everyone else that everyone collectively ignores. Hell, he's just doing something crappy quietly, you're constantly complaining to everyone, maybe you're the annoying roommate!
It's fucking crap and gaslighty, but it happens.
posted by emptythought at 3:47 AM on October 24, 2014 [11 favorites]
I hate to say it, but if he's from Japan, the message has to come from a man. So perhaps you can ask one of your roommates, or all if they'd agree, to tell him to keep the door locked.
I'd also call the landlord and tell him that you've repeatedly found the door unlocked and you feel unsafe. Ask if he would install a self-locking mechanism, or, barring that, if it would be okay if you did so.
Or move.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:12 AM on October 24, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'd also call the landlord and tell him that you've repeatedly found the door unlocked and you feel unsafe. Ask if he would install a self-locking mechanism, or, barring that, if it would be okay if you did so.
Or move.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:12 AM on October 24, 2014 [3 favorites]
I think you're muddying the waters a bit by including the door issues with Bob's boorishness. I've lived in a large shared house (that was eight women and two men, coincidentally) where, for god knows what reason, the side door was left unlocked most of the time. Everyone but me thought this was reasonable. To be fair, for someone looking to steal stuff, having someone at home is a big disincentive, but the reality of living in a house with ten people is that you have no idea whether you're the only person home, so not locking the door when you leave is... odd. There wasn't a whole lot I could do besides make sure the door to my room locked and I had a key. You can talk to the landlord and ask if he'd be willing to add a deadbolt to your door (or be okay with you doing so). There are also door locking, er, things that are essentially the equivalent of propping a chair under the doorknob. Or ask the landlord if he'd be willing to change the lock on the basement door to one that locks automatically. (Doorknobs/locks are surprisingly cheap. If the landlord is willing to install it (or will let you do it), you could throw $20 at this and be done.)
The landlord probably doesn't care if Bob locks the door. (Maybe there are insurance implications for the landlord? The idea that you guys have renters insurance is laughable to me, but that's my experience of cheap shared houses talking.) The landlord, however, does care that Bob doesn't smoke in his room because he bothered putting that in the lease (unless he photocopied the lease out of a 'how to be a landlord' book). It's possible that Bob smoking in his room means all of you are breaking the terms of the lease. That's what I'd ask the landlord to address. If you all signed one lease together, Bob isn't akin to the guy who lives in the apartment next door and the landlord expects you to sort out conflicts between yourselves.
posted by hoyland at 5:19 AM on October 24, 2014
The landlord probably doesn't care if Bob locks the door. (Maybe there are insurance implications for the landlord? The idea that you guys have renters insurance is laughable to me, but that's my experience of cheap shared houses talking.) The landlord, however, does care that Bob doesn't smoke in his room because he bothered putting that in the lease (unless he photocopied the lease out of a 'how to be a landlord' book). It's possible that Bob smoking in his room means all of you are breaking the terms of the lease. That's what I'd ask the landlord to address. If you all signed one lease together, Bob isn't akin to the guy who lives in the apartment next door and the landlord expects you to sort out conflicts between yourselves.
posted by hoyland at 5:19 AM on October 24, 2014
What should I do?
I agree with the advice above; rally your other roommates. Even if I didn't care about the door (which I would) I bet they would be unhappy with an obnoxious kid treating other roommates like this. He'll ignore you, but probably not a united front.
posted by spaltavian at 5:34 AM on October 24, 2014
I agree with the advice above; rally your other roommates. Even if I didn't care about the door (which I would) I bet they would be unhappy with an obnoxious kid treating other roommates like this. He'll ignore you, but probably not a united front.
posted by spaltavian at 5:34 AM on October 24, 2014
We had a guy staying with our downstairs neighbour who never locked the front door and often didn't even shut it properly (we live in a high crime area) - we just used to lock him out when we found the door wide open, and if he'd only gone out to the corner shop and hadn't taken his keys with him, too bad (we don't have a doorbell and he didn't have our phone numbers).
A few cold rainy afternoons spent sitting on the step waiting for his housemate to get home from work seemed to do the trick.
posted by tinkletown at 6:02 AM on October 24, 2014 [13 favorites]
A few cold rainy afternoons spent sitting on the step waiting for his housemate to get home from work seemed to do the trick.
posted by tinkletown at 6:02 AM on October 24, 2014 [13 favorites]
Ask your landlord to install a closer on the door. We're in house with four apartments and it's not actually possible to leave the door open. Rally the troops (roommates) on this. And I'd say the smoking issue might get you further with the landlord than the unlocked door issue.
I live in a place where leaving your front door unlocked is still fairly common. Mine is always locked though.
posted by futureisunwritten at 6:52 AM on October 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
I live in a place where leaving your front door unlocked is still fairly common. Mine is always locked though.
posted by futureisunwritten at 6:52 AM on October 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
Is Bob on the lease? What are the tenant laws like in your area? Before you start throwing eviction threats around you need to know where you stand because in places where laws are tenant-friendly it will be extremely difficult and time consuming to get him kicked out based on this behavior alone. If you can get your roommates on your side you'll have a better chance of pressuring him into being more considerate or convincing him to move out, but keep in mind that they need to be willing to actively support you in this and not just passively agree that Bob is a dick. Same thing with the landlord-- depending on the situation they might not care enough about the smoking/security concerns given that he has the financial resources to pay rent without problems. I agree that you'll probably have better luck asking for a door that locks automatically.
You could try being more assertive with Bob, since it seems like his MO is to throw fits when he isn't getting his way in the hopes that you'll back off. But without roommate/landlord support it could potentially just escalate the problem. Sadly, you might have to be the one to move out in this situation.
posted by fox problems at 8:30 AM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
You could try being more assertive with Bob, since it seems like his MO is to throw fits when he isn't getting his way in the hopes that you'll back off. But without roommate/landlord support it could potentially just escalate the problem. Sadly, you might have to be the one to move out in this situation.
posted by fox problems at 8:30 AM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
One of the hardest won and most valuable skills I've learned in life is how to disengage with someone who is not listening. It's almost always a man, and he is almost always a raging misogynist.
Do not argue or try to reason with him. He's just going to ignore what you're saying and start making up stupid shit or trying to deflect.
Discuss this like a grownup with your landlord and other housemates, but with Bob, the answer to everything he says is, "Shut up. Lock the door." And optionally, you can append 'you big stupid diaper baby.'
He is a dumbass and a liar and he doesn't deserve your time or your explanations.
If you find the door unlocked again, lock it, even (especially!) if he's out there smoking. And don't let him back in. That's his problem that he created, and you gave him plenty of warning.
posted by ernielundquist at 8:34 AM on October 24, 2014 [11 favorites]
Do not argue or try to reason with him. He's just going to ignore what you're saying and start making up stupid shit or trying to deflect.
Discuss this like a grownup with your landlord and other housemates, but with Bob, the answer to everything he says is, "Shut up. Lock the door." And optionally, you can append 'you big stupid diaper baby.'
He is a dumbass and a liar and he doesn't deserve your time or your explanations.
If you find the door unlocked again, lock it, even (especially!) if he's out there smoking. And don't let him back in. That's his problem that he created, and you gave him plenty of warning.
posted by ernielundquist at 8:34 AM on October 24, 2014 [11 favorites]
Although tenant laws vary across the country, I think there are not many locations where it would be possible to evict someone in less than a few months (especially if that person is paying rent) -- and you're already moving in a few months anyway. So, I don't think eviction is really going to help you here, even if the landlord wanted to play ball.
On the door, I agree about asking the landlord to install an auto-locking mechanism. It may be quite easy and inexpensive, and then your problem is solved.
I would also speak to your landlord about the smoking and noise issues. The smoking in particular is going to really hurt his ability to rent out that room in the future, so I think he will care. The roommate may be more willing to listen to an authority figure.
posted by rainbowbrite at 1:50 PM on October 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
On the door, I agree about asking the landlord to install an auto-locking mechanism. It may be quite easy and inexpensive, and then your problem is solved.
I would also speak to your landlord about the smoking and noise issues. The smoking in particular is going to really hurt his ability to rent out that room in the future, so I think he will care. The roommate may be more willing to listen to an authority figure.
posted by rainbowbrite at 1:50 PM on October 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
"In JP, I'm sure you've heard, the nail that sticks up gets hammered down. So make Bob the nail. Assemble all your housemates--the ones in agreement with you anyway--and put Bob in the spotlight. "
When we had a roommate who was so inept at locking the door that we had two separate breakins and the police told us they could do fuck all because there weren't even signs of forced entry, we started calling our roommate Dumb John. Previously, we'd heard that nickname from his coworkers and, you know, didn't really catch on to it because we thought they were kind of dicks. After that second time, we called him Dumb John to his face and to anyone we introduced him to. "Oh yeah, that's my roommate Dumb John. He's too fucking stupid to lock a door, can you believe it?"
He learned to lock doors, though we kept calling him that (for a variety of reasons) long afterward.
At the very least, I'd start calling this guy "Dumb Bob." As in, "Dumb Bob's too fucking stupid to lock a door even after being told to."
posted by klangklangston at 2:50 PM on October 24, 2014
When we had a roommate who was so inept at locking the door that we had two separate breakins and the police told us they could do fuck all because there weren't even signs of forced entry, we started calling our roommate Dumb John. Previously, we'd heard that nickname from his coworkers and, you know, didn't really catch on to it because we thought they were kind of dicks. After that second time, we called him Dumb John to his face and to anyone we introduced him to. "Oh yeah, that's my roommate Dumb John. He's too fucking stupid to lock a door, can you believe it?"
He learned to lock doors, though we kept calling him that (for a variety of reasons) long afterward.
At the very least, I'd start calling this guy "Dumb Bob." As in, "Dumb Bob's too fucking stupid to lock a door even after being told to."
posted by klangklangston at 2:50 PM on October 24, 2014
Mod note: From the OP:
Hey you guys, I came home from work, and here's an update: one roomie came in through the basement, then on the way to make dinner I found door unlocked after Bob came in with one of his female Shenanigan friends. I had enough and confronted him about it angrily, he responded 2x as angrily, third roomie came out as mediator, I ask Bob to lock the door and explain situation to third roomie who says he just came home and it was him (it wasn't, Bob came in right after him), Bob says he won't lock the door and to talk to the landlord, and I ask third roomie to say something because Bob just said he wont lock it. Third roomie reluctantly asks Bob to lock the door, and Bob magically in a calm voice says that he will lock the door from now on, just like that, no problem when a man asks him. Then the cherry on top is at the end when his female friend (also from Japan) says, "Bob always locks the door."posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 9:54 PM on October 24, 2014 [3 favorites]
I had heard from the landlord previously and he asked me if I wanted him to talk to Bob or send an email to the roomies about locking the doors, and I told him that Bob is the problem and to talk to him, and that Bob should be evicted and mentioned the smoking. Didn't hear back from landlord yet, don't know if he will talk to Bob or not or what will happen or if -I- will end up looking like the bad person.
I'm exhausted with this sexist situation and looked for another place to live. Contacted the person in a Craigslist ad and already it ended up being a scam. So I'm torn between just keeping my mouth shut and locking the door myself until I relocate since it's so hard to find a place here and I just have a few months left, or moving out sooner. I think I will go ahead and request that the door be self-locking because after today's incident I don't believe Bob will change his ways and I don't know if I will be alone in this.
Thanks for your help, it helps to know I'm not crazy. And poffin boffin and ernielundquist, you're absolutely right- he will not reason with me and it is a waste of my time to try to reason with him like an adult, because he's not an adult, he's a child. I am upset and have some anxiety about this now, I don't know what to do. Does anyone have any advice for how I should proceed now? Thank you again.
Call the landlord every single time Bob leaves the door unlocked. Every single time. Leave a message if it's after office hours. And continue to let Bob know that he's left it unlocked.
posted by shoesietart at 5:32 PM on October 25, 2014
posted by shoesietart at 5:32 PM on October 25, 2014
Mod note: From the OP:
Update: Bob is moving out in one month, back to Japan. My landlord found that out as he was going to evict him over the smoking. My roommates joined me and called the landlord this weekend when Bob stunk up the house with his pungent cigarette smoke yet again. It felt healing to have the support of my roommates, landlord and you guys. I really wanted Bob to be slapped with an Eviction, but at least he'll be gone soon and the doors will finally remain locked. Thanks you guys.posted by taz (staff) at 11:18 PM on October 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by zachlipton at 10:15 PM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]