Rather, uh, enthusiastic workplace (snowflake)
October 23, 2014 11:41 AM Subscribe
I need to survive here, since transferring out hasn't worked (yet).
I've been at this company nearly 15 years, and gotten moved around a few times. That's fine, that's what they do. Last time, though, I got moved into hell. I am in cubicle-land surrounded by some raging extroverts who yell over their cubes all day long. When I say all day long, I mean "all day long." I have people on all sides.
I have a couple conditions that make it somewhat difficult to concentrate (my doctor agrees with me). In a post similar to this, someone suggested Strattera but I would be unable to take that--I've already checked with my doctor. I've read a couple other posts in askmetafilter about similar situations, and I've used headphones with Simply Noise cranked up and I can still hear them. No one has said anything about the headphones to me, but a few calls have also gone to voicemail because I didn't hear them (Ninety percent of the calls are non-urgent). My guess is they would NOT spring for a special phone light. All of these people (the extroverts) are one or more layers above me, so I have really mixed feelings about asking them to accommodate ME.
The EAP woman I spoke to suggested going to their supervisor/director. My boss spoke to HR about moving me. HR said to make a meeting with Mrs. Director. My direct supervisor and I did have a meeting scheduled with her but it was canceled due to a conflict. She's a very important woman and I'm guessing it will take another couple months to get in to see her.
I'm horrible about conflict and don't know how appropriate it would be to ask them to help me, even though they are in a field that would very likely understand "special needs." I should mention that these are really nice people, all of them (if lacking in social skills--often they walk by first thing in the morning without speaking. Hey, I am the furthest thing from a morning person, but I can manage a "Good Morning"! I won't get into how you are either, the most annoying question on the planet. Another time I held a door for someone with a big load and she breezed blithely through without acknowledgement--as if it were her due).
It's a good job, comfortable working conditions (except the constant yammering) with some benefits. I've made mistakes (not fatal, just embarrassing) because of the distractions. I've applied for every other job I was qualified for, but I believe I don't interview well, although I am positive and upbeat and do not speak of my current job in a negative fashion. (Or maybe they just know who they wanted for the job?)
Please keep in mind I started in the workforce later in life and am pretty clueless about office politics, and well, everything. Right now I feel like a dog ready to chew my leg off to escape out of the trap.
I've been at this company nearly 15 years, and gotten moved around a few times. That's fine, that's what they do. Last time, though, I got moved into hell. I am in cubicle-land surrounded by some raging extroverts who yell over their cubes all day long. When I say all day long, I mean "all day long." I have people on all sides.
I have a couple conditions that make it somewhat difficult to concentrate (my doctor agrees with me). In a post similar to this, someone suggested Strattera but I would be unable to take that--I've already checked with my doctor. I've read a couple other posts in askmetafilter about similar situations, and I've used headphones with Simply Noise cranked up and I can still hear them. No one has said anything about the headphones to me, but a few calls have also gone to voicemail because I didn't hear them (Ninety percent of the calls are non-urgent). My guess is they would NOT spring for a special phone light. All of these people (the extroverts) are one or more layers above me, so I have really mixed feelings about asking them to accommodate ME.
The EAP woman I spoke to suggested going to their supervisor/director. My boss spoke to HR about moving me. HR said to make a meeting with Mrs. Director. My direct supervisor and I did have a meeting scheduled with her but it was canceled due to a conflict. She's a very important woman and I'm guessing it will take another couple months to get in to see her.
I'm horrible about conflict and don't know how appropriate it would be to ask them to help me, even though they are in a field that would very likely understand "special needs." I should mention that these are really nice people, all of them (if lacking in social skills--often they walk by first thing in the morning without speaking. Hey, I am the furthest thing from a morning person, but I can manage a "Good Morning"! I won't get into how you are either, the most annoying question on the planet. Another time I held a door for someone with a big load and she breezed blithely through without acknowledgement--as if it were her due).
It's a good job, comfortable working conditions (except the constant yammering) with some benefits. I've made mistakes (not fatal, just embarrassing) because of the distractions. I've applied for every other job I was qualified for, but I believe I don't interview well, although I am positive and upbeat and do not speak of my current job in a negative fashion. (Or maybe they just know who they wanted for the job?)
Please keep in mind I started in the workforce later in life and am pretty clueless about office politics, and well, everything. Right now I feel like a dog ready to chew my leg off to escape out of the trap.
it might be helpful for you to know that if you have a diagnosed medical disability interfering with your ability to perform your job duties without a reasonable accommodation (like a phone light or being moved to another work area) they are required to at least try to accommodate you by law.
you wrote "I'm horrible about conflict and don't know how appropriate it would be to ask them to help me, even though they are in a field that would very likely understand "special needs." - it's not about them understanding you so much as following the rules. but you need to stand up for yourself or they will not do anything. do not wait two months to speak to Mrs. Director again. contact her or her secretary and reschedule asap. the squeaky wheel gets the grease it is owed by law.
if you are getting stonewalled and you feel they are doing that in bad faith, you can bluff: mention you sought legal advice and were advised you on how to make a complaint about disability discrimination (pretty easy to do) but you don't want to make a complaint, you would rather meet and work out a solution now, without getting anyone from outside the company involved.
if they moved you to that work area then presumably it wouldn't be that hard to move you to another one? is there a particular reason why you have to be near those other workers specifically?
posted by zdravo at 11:53 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
you wrote "I'm horrible about conflict and don't know how appropriate it would be to ask them to help me, even though they are in a field that would very likely understand "special needs." - it's not about them understanding you so much as following the rules. but you need to stand up for yourself or they will not do anything. do not wait two months to speak to Mrs. Director again. contact her or her secretary and reschedule asap. the squeaky wheel gets the grease it is owed by law.
if you are getting stonewalled and you feel they are doing that in bad faith, you can bluff: mention you sought legal advice and were advised you on how to make a complaint about disability discrimination (pretty easy to do) but you don't want to make a complaint, you would rather meet and work out a solution now, without getting anyone from outside the company involved.
if they moved you to that work area then presumably it wouldn't be that hard to move you to another one? is there a particular reason why you have to be near those other workers specifically?
posted by zdravo at 11:53 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
First step is to go back to your direct supervisor and get him/her to reschedule the meeting with Mrs. Director as soon as possible.
Absent that, ask if anyone else can approve moving your desk - maybe someone above direct supervisor but below Mrs. Director - even if it's just to another cubicle on the end somewhere so that the shouting isn't over and across you, but is on the other side of the room.
Finally - if you really want to push it - go back to your doctor, describe your working conditions in detail, and get him/her to write a letter stating your "disability" what specific "accommodations" you need in order to do your job effectively. I put these words in quotes because they are specific language that someone will respond to, not out of sarcasm. Perhaps true active-noise-cancelling headphones and a phone light would be enough, or in the alternative, a work location that is not in an open-cubicle format (such as an alcove or an actual office with a door). Take the letter to HR and let them figure it out. They can certainly get Mrs. Director or someone else to approve an appropriate move much faster if they are worried about liability for denying accommodations.
posted by trivia genius at 11:53 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Absent that, ask if anyone else can approve moving your desk - maybe someone above direct supervisor but below Mrs. Director - even if it's just to another cubicle on the end somewhere so that the shouting isn't over and across you, but is on the other side of the room.
Finally - if you really want to push it - go back to your doctor, describe your working conditions in detail, and get him/her to write a letter stating your "disability" what specific "accommodations" you need in order to do your job effectively. I put these words in quotes because they are specific language that someone will respond to, not out of sarcasm. Perhaps true active-noise-cancelling headphones and a phone light would be enough, or in the alternative, a work location that is not in an open-cubicle format (such as an alcove or an actual office with a door). Take the letter to HR and let them figure it out. They can certainly get Mrs. Director or someone else to approve an appropriate move much faster if they are worried about liability for denying accommodations.
posted by trivia genius at 11:53 AM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
If it's loud enough that you're not hearing your phone ring, there really can't be anyone there who will disagree that this isn't a problem. Do make the appointment with Very Important Woman, and try to make it sooner than two months from now. When you set the appointment, remind her/her assistant that she recently cancelled on you.
Also, do go to the supervisor of the loud people. You don't have to make a big stink about it. Just stick to the facts: "It's so loud, I literally don't hear my phone ring." "It's so loud, I hear them through my white noise headphones." "It's so loud (fill in the blank)." Stick to facts, not feelings. Do clients/customers have trouble hearing you on the phone? What are some other business-related facts? "I can only process X widgets per hour in this new spot, whereas when I was in a quieter spot I can process X+Y widgets per hour."
posted by BlahLaLa at 11:55 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also, do go to the supervisor of the loud people. You don't have to make a big stink about it. Just stick to the facts: "It's so loud, I literally don't hear my phone ring." "It's so loud, I hear them through my white noise headphones." "It's so loud (fill in the blank)." Stick to facts, not feelings. Do clients/customers have trouble hearing you on the phone? What are some other business-related facts? "I can only process X widgets per hour in this new spot, whereas when I was in a quieter spot I can process X+Y widgets per hour."
posted by BlahLaLa at 11:55 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
From your question, I understand that your office is very noisy and this interferes with your work.
In my office we would regard this as completely legitimate, not a symptom of anything deeper, and either move you to another location, or ask everybody else to pipe down.
It's not clear why you are discussing this as a deeper issue, involving "special needs" and medication. It's not clear why any of this is any concern of your boss. If you want a quieter office, that's normal, and you're entitled to it.
My boss spoke to HR about moving me. HR said to make a meeting with Mrs. Director. My direct supervisor and I did have a meeting scheduled with her but it was canceled due to a conflict. She's a very important woman and I'm guessing it will take another couple months to get in to see her.
It's HR's responsibility to set up any necessary meetings, not yours. What is supposed to happen in a meeting with this "important woman"? You will tell her, "My office is incredibly noisy. Please move me to a different room, or department." And she will say, "OK." There's no reason for you to wait a couple of months for such a trivial meeting.
posted by JimN2TAW at 11:58 AM on October 23, 2014
In my office we would regard this as completely legitimate, not a symptom of anything deeper, and either move you to another location, or ask everybody else to pipe down.
It's not clear why you are discussing this as a deeper issue, involving "special needs" and medication. It's not clear why any of this is any concern of your boss. If you want a quieter office, that's normal, and you're entitled to it.
My boss spoke to HR about moving me. HR said to make a meeting with Mrs. Director. My direct supervisor and I did have a meeting scheduled with her but it was canceled due to a conflict. She's a very important woman and I'm guessing it will take another couple months to get in to see her.
It's HR's responsibility to set up any necessary meetings, not yours. What is supposed to happen in a meeting with this "important woman"? You will tell her, "My office is incredibly noisy. Please move me to a different room, or department." And she will say, "OK." There's no reason for you to wait a couple of months for such a trivial meeting.
posted by JimN2TAW at 11:58 AM on October 23, 2014
Response by poster: JimN2TAW: I bring it up because it seems to be the accepted culture in this office to yell all day long and obviously they've figured out how to work in the chaos. I am (except for maybe another woman on the end who won't talk to anyone) the lone dissenter. Since my doc has already told me my condition affects my concentration it seemed like a good point to make.
And I promise I won't thread-sit this!
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 12:03 PM on October 23, 2014
And I promise I won't thread-sit this!
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 12:03 PM on October 23, 2014
My guess is they would NOT spring for a special phone light.
Something like this $24 thing?
I know people here will disagree on principle, but if I were you I'd just buy the damn light myself.
posted by mullacc at 12:06 PM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
Something like this $24 thing?
I know people here will disagree on principle, but if I were you I'd just buy the damn light myself.
posted by mullacc at 12:06 PM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]
(If it's loud enough that you're not hearing your phone ring, there really can't be anyone there who will disagree that this isn't a problem.
The missed calls are caused by the headphones that the OP is wearing to drown out the loud coworkers, not directly by the loudness of the coworkers themselves.)
And yes, buy a phone light for yourself!
posted by poffin boffin at 12:14 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
The missed calls are caused by the headphones that the OP is wearing to drown out the loud coworkers, not directly by the loudness of the coworkers themselves.)
And yes, buy a phone light for yourself!
posted by poffin boffin at 12:14 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Do you work *with* these people, or just *near* these people? Like, if you need to get moved, is that moved to a different division of the company or just a different desk/room? Would it help if you had a corner cubicle instead of one in the middle, and if so could you talk that out with your coworkers (could be a problem if the corner cubicle is coveted)?
Do consider just buying the phone light yourself, but if your office uses a VOIP line (as many do nowadays) I'm not sure if it would work.
posted by mskyle at 12:59 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Do consider just buying the phone light yourself, but if your office uses a VOIP line (as many do nowadays) I'm not sure if it would work.
posted by mskyle at 12:59 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Who is the office manager? Sometimes you can make things happen by going around rather than up. Like you should always, always, always be nice to admins and exec assistants and everyone, really, simply because it's the right thing to do. But sometimes it's helpful as well. There's lots of good advice up there (we have to advocate for ourselves, no one else will do it) but you might want to make nice with the office manager or any logistics-type person on your floor who can get you moved without any huge fuss. Can't hurt to find out.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:39 PM on October 23, 2014
posted by Bella Donna at 1:39 PM on October 23, 2014
I just wanted to note something: your tone in this post is very, er, hostile.
You don't seem to have any empathy for these people you work with, you snark at your superiors, and you have a kind of pleading / blaming tone. They are required to make the appropriate accommodations of course, but I think things will go better for you if you keep this professional. These people are loud because they don't know how much they are interfering with your work (or how important your work is). Your supervisors are required to support you by law and there's no evidence yet that they won't. So if you go into this with a more positive and empathetic attitude (and don't take all of this so personally), I think you'll get a lot further when you approach them.
posted by 3491again at 1:39 PM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
You don't seem to have any empathy for these people you work with, you snark at your superiors, and you have a kind of pleading / blaming tone. They are required to make the appropriate accommodations of course, but I think things will go better for you if you keep this professional. These people are loud because they don't know how much they are interfering with your work (or how important your work is). Your supervisors are required to support you by law and there's no evidence yet that they won't. So if you go into this with a more positive and empathetic attitude (and don't take all of this so personally), I think you'll get a lot further when you approach them.
posted by 3491again at 1:39 PM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]
Depending on the culture of the workplace, and the physical space available, sometimes you can just claim a new space.
Are there old abandoned desks down the hall? Do you have a corporate library and a laptop?
Just set up some work space somewhere new, with or without telling your boss. If the bosses get cranky about it, tell them you need a bit more quiet and found it in the abandoned area. They will notice that it is a problem that needs addressing and may allow you to take over the area officially or will probably help you find a quieter space for at least some of your hours at work.
posted by littlewater at 1:57 PM on October 23, 2014
Are there old abandoned desks down the hall? Do you have a corporate library and a laptop?
Just set up some work space somewhere new, with or without telling your boss. If the bosses get cranky about it, tell them you need a bit more quiet and found it in the abandoned area. They will notice that it is a problem that needs addressing and may allow you to take over the area officially or will probably help you find a quieter space for at least some of your hours at work.
posted by littlewater at 1:57 PM on October 23, 2014
Please keep in mind I started in the workforce later in life and am pretty clueless about office politics, and well, everything. Right now I feel like a dog ready to chew my leg off to escape out of the trap.
Just from the office politics perspective, escalating stuff like this up to director level is going to mark you out as a problem employee. At some point you have to put some adult pants on and deal with the problem yourself. Walk around and find yourself a new seat that looks quieter. Tell your boss that if nobody minds, your going to move over to this seat. If nobody says you can't do it, just do it. I see nothing in your question about asking people to quiet down -- have you just tried asking people to keep it down around your desk? Boisterous people are not wilting flowers, they can take a little criticism. Don't get all passive aggressive and cranky about the noise, just say "Hey, can you guys keep it down some around my desk?"
posted by empath at 2:16 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Just from the office politics perspective, escalating stuff like this up to director level is going to mark you out as a problem employee. At some point you have to put some adult pants on and deal with the problem yourself. Walk around and find yourself a new seat that looks quieter. Tell your boss that if nobody minds, your going to move over to this seat. If nobody says you can't do it, just do it. I see nothing in your question about asking people to quiet down -- have you just tried asking people to keep it down around your desk? Boisterous people are not wilting flowers, they can take a little criticism. Don't get all passive aggressive and cranky about the noise, just say "Hey, can you guys keep it down some around my desk?"
posted by empath at 2:16 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
Huh. It sounds like you may be having some difficulty navigating interpersonal stuff here. I say that because it sounds like you went straight to EAP and up the chain of command, and usually people don't do that until they've exhausted other options. Doing what you did is considered, I think, a little adversarial. Particularly, invoking your doctor is often interpreted as adversarial even if you don't mean it that way, because a doctor's opinion is necessary for your workplace to be legally obligated to accommodate you, and therefore is often considered to be a court of last resort.
If I were you, I'd tell your boss that you don't want to make a big deal out of this, you just want to move. There's nothing wrong with how your coworkers are behaving, it just makes it hard for you to do your work. I'd ask if it's okay for you to just wander around and try to find a spare cube (ideally near people who do similar work to yours, or with whom you need to interact). If you can find something that looks suitable, then you can ask permission to move there. This doesn't need to be a big deal, it probably doesn't need to involve the director, and it certainly doesn't need to be adversarial.
posted by Susan PG at 3:14 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
If I were you, I'd tell your boss that you don't want to make a big deal out of this, you just want to move. There's nothing wrong with how your coworkers are behaving, it just makes it hard for you to do your work. I'd ask if it's okay for you to just wander around and try to find a spare cube (ideally near people who do similar work to yours, or with whom you need to interact). If you can find something that looks suitable, then you can ask permission to move there. This doesn't need to be a big deal, it probably doesn't need to involve the director, and it certainly doesn't need to be adversarial.
posted by Susan PG at 3:14 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]
I am (except for maybe another woman on the end who won't talk to anyone) the lone dissenter.
Switch cubicles with whomever sits next to her so you can form your own little quiet(er) space on the end.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:21 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
Switch cubicles with whomever sits next to her so you can form your own little quiet(er) space on the end.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:21 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I was in a similar situation at one point. My doctor ended up writing a note saying that due to anxiety I needed to be moved someplace quieter. HR took the note seriously and moved me quickly after that. Complaining without the note did nothing though.
posted by parakeetdog at 10:29 AM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by parakeetdog at 10:29 AM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Sorry it feels this way, 3481again. I really am at my wit's end. It took me over a year to approach EAP and longer to post here. I'm civil to everyone.
Bella Donna: No office manager, only supervisors and directors.
Good solid advice and feedback. I can't imagine anyone here moving without Mrs. Director's permission.
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 7:55 PM on October 24, 2014
Bella Donna: No office manager, only supervisors and directors.
Good solid advice and feedback. I can't imagine anyone here moving without Mrs. Director's permission.
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 7:55 PM on October 24, 2014
Response by poster: Of course, if I had better interpersonal skills/bigger ovaries I'd just go have a nice chat with each and every one of them.
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 8:01 PM on October 24, 2014
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 8:01 PM on October 24, 2014
If it took you a year to first raise this issue then yeah, it does sound like you're conflict avoidant. It sounds like maybe in your head you've made this into a much bigger and more stressful, adversarial deal than it needs to be. (To be clear, I'm not talking about the noise or the fact that the noise bothers you: I'm talking about the solving of the problem.) Really, in most workplaces this would not need to be a big deal: you'd just tell your boss you need to move so you can focus better, and the two of you would figure something out. Spending a whole year suffering and stressing about it probably isn't necessary.
This is not necessarily relevant but I'm curious why you call the director Mrs. Director. Just a small point of feedback: if I were your boss and you called me that, or I heard you were calling me that, I'd be confused by it, and it might actually make me trust/like you less because I'd wonder if you were being kind of sexist. Based on the way you talk about her it sounds like maybe you resent her authority, and if that's leaking into how you talk about or to her, it's probably not doing you any favours.
posted by Susan PG at 6:12 AM on October 25, 2014
This is not necessarily relevant but I'm curious why you call the director Mrs. Director. Just a small point of feedback: if I were your boss and you called me that, or I heard you were calling me that, I'd be confused by it, and it might actually make me trust/like you less because I'd wonder if you were being kind of sexist. Based on the way you talk about her it sounds like maybe you resent her authority, and if that's leaking into how you talk about or to her, it's probably not doing you any favours.
posted by Susan PG at 6:12 AM on October 25, 2014
Response by poster: Susan PG: I wouldn't read too much into it. I could have easily just as said, the Director, and apparently should have. Everyone around her though, is Miss or Mrs. or Mr. or Mrs. First Name or Miss First Name--the variations are endless. I could have easily said Mrs. LastName. I don't mean anything sinister or disrespectful by it.
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 9:26 AM on October 25, 2014
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 9:26 AM on October 25, 2014
I think that the way to at least start to resolve this is to ask your immediate boss if you can be moved closer to where the other quiet person sits. Explain the situation to your boss, the noise is distracting and you'd prefer to be somewhere quieter. You're not bad-mouthing your workmates either by saying this or asking for a small adjustment (presuming it wouldn't be impossible; office layouts are weird sometimes, I know, and without knowing if your desk/workspace is capable of being moved it's pretty hard to judge is this is even an option ) so it doesn't necessarily have to involve conflict.
posted by h00py at 6:24 AM on October 26, 2014
posted by h00py at 6:24 AM on October 26, 2014
Response by poster: have you just tried asking people to keep it down around your desk? Boisterous people are not wilting flowers, they can take a little criticism
empath: As I noted, they're my superiors and I don't feel comfortable telling them what to do.
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 5:14 AM on October 29, 2014
empath: As I noted, they're my superiors and I don't feel comfortable telling them what to do.
posted by intrepid_simpleton at 5:14 AM on October 29, 2014
This thread is closed to new comments.
As per usual, i'm better at offering technical solutions than social solutions to this sort of thing, but what you want is IEMs with comply tips. The cheapest decent solution to this i could BS up was these with these tips.
I have the regular ones, not the "maximum isolation" ones, and they'd absolutely block out loud-guy-from-dilbert types like this. The maximum ones, which i used to have the equivalent of for my shures, blocked out a dump truck sideswiping the bus i was on. It was like one of those slow motion crash scenes with no sound from an action movie.
You're going to need some sort of phone light though. I actually didn't notice the fire alarm going off in high school because of the equivalent of those max isolation ones.
posted by emptythought at 11:53 AM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]