How can I gently encourage a housemate to go live elsewhere?
October 7, 2014 6:59 PM Subscribe
My wife and I bought a house, moved in, and rented one of the bedrooms out to one of her friends. She and I later broke up, and she is now living elsewhere. Her friend still lives here, and I've since rented out the third bedroom as well. My desire is more about sharing a home with friends than about simply making money renting rooms, though divorce is expensive and the money certainly helps. My ex's friend is a perfectly reasonable tenant who pays his rent on time, doesn't trash the place, doesn't cause drama, and while he's a bit slobby he does follow through on his agreements when we negotiate about chores. He deserves better than to just be kicked out because I happen not to prefer his company. At the same time, this isn't the living situation I want and it only exists because of the chain of events leading to my divorce. How can I make progress toward organizing the home environment I want to live in without treating my ex's friend unfairly?
Let's call this guy K. He has a very loud, crass, sort of obnoxious personality, which he parlays into dark humor. His conversation is mostly a series of rants, full of remarks which are as horrifying as they are funny, and when he's talking you can hear him from the far end of the house. My ex loved his style; the two of them would hang out in the back yard drinking beer and shooting the breeze, and I was happy that she was happy. With her gone, though, K isn't someone whose company I would ever seek out, and I would prefer not to live with him anymore.
Beyond the personality differences, our lifestyles have no synergy. I like art and music and cooking, and I love to have people over for shared meals and cocktail parties and the like. It makes me really happy when the house looks tidy and feels welcoming. I care a lot about arranging the space so that guests feel comfortable and happy to linger. K is indifferent to aesthetics, mostly eats takeout and microwave meals, loves to talk at length about pro wrestling, and socializes with his friends by playing video games and yelling at the screen together. I'm happy for him to live his life the way he wants, but his is not at all the kind of life I want, and his presence in my home only makes it harder for me to get what I want out of the place.
My newer housemate, M, is not a close friend but her social circle overlaps with mine and when her friends come over they are often people I already know and like. Her decorating style is much more cluttered than mine, but she is an artist with a sensitive eye and we definitely have in common the desire to make our home a beautiful and welcoming space. I am happy to share the house with her, and I've recently learned that her feelings about K are similar to mine. K seems to be happy where he is, but both M and I would breathe a sigh of relief if he announced an interest in moving out.
I am torn and don't know what to do or how to do it. K is a decent person and I want to treat him well. He deserves to feel secure in his home as much as anyone else. I don't know how to bring this topic up without creating a feeling of obligation, since I am technically his landlord!
On the other hand, I bought this house with some specific goals in mind, and K's presence in the house is making it really difficult to create the kind of social environment and entertaining space I had imagined. I don't want this to go on forever; I want him to leave so I can find someone else who will fit in better with M and me.
I don't have any idea what to do with this. I suspect that my usual arsenal of communications tools are not up to the job and I would appreciate advice.
Let's call this guy K. He has a very loud, crass, sort of obnoxious personality, which he parlays into dark humor. His conversation is mostly a series of rants, full of remarks which are as horrifying as they are funny, and when he's talking you can hear him from the far end of the house. My ex loved his style; the two of them would hang out in the back yard drinking beer and shooting the breeze, and I was happy that she was happy. With her gone, though, K isn't someone whose company I would ever seek out, and I would prefer not to live with him anymore.
Beyond the personality differences, our lifestyles have no synergy. I like art and music and cooking, and I love to have people over for shared meals and cocktail parties and the like. It makes me really happy when the house looks tidy and feels welcoming. I care a lot about arranging the space so that guests feel comfortable and happy to linger. K is indifferent to aesthetics, mostly eats takeout and microwave meals, loves to talk at length about pro wrestling, and socializes with his friends by playing video games and yelling at the screen together. I'm happy for him to live his life the way he wants, but his is not at all the kind of life I want, and his presence in my home only makes it harder for me to get what I want out of the place.
My newer housemate, M, is not a close friend but her social circle overlaps with mine and when her friends come over they are often people I already know and like. Her decorating style is much more cluttered than mine, but she is an artist with a sensitive eye and we definitely have in common the desire to make our home a beautiful and welcoming space. I am happy to share the house with her, and I've recently learned that her feelings about K are similar to mine. K seems to be happy where he is, but both M and I would breathe a sigh of relief if he announced an interest in moving out.
I am torn and don't know what to do or how to do it. K is a decent person and I want to treat him well. He deserves to feel secure in his home as much as anyone else. I don't know how to bring this topic up without creating a feeling of obligation, since I am technically his landlord!
On the other hand, I bought this house with some specific goals in mind, and K's presence in the house is making it really difficult to create the kind of social environment and entertaining space I had imagined. I don't want this to go on forever; I want him to leave so I can find someone else who will fit in better with M and me.
I don't have any idea what to do with this. I suspect that my usual arsenal of communications tools are not up to the job and I would appreciate advice.
I bet he's known for a while that this would be a possibility. If you have a lease in place, tell him you won't be renewing it. If you don't, give him a couple months notice; that should be plenty of time to find a new place. (Of course, double check the minimum notice you are required to give him by law and definitely abide by that.) If you can be flexible about his end date (e.g. if he finds a place he can move to very quickly, don't charge him that last half month or whatever), that would be a great kindness, as it's often hard to get move-out & move-in dates to line up just right.
I'm sure some genius will pop in here with a script shortly, but that's basically the gist of it.
posted by ktkt at 7:26 PM on October 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm sure some genius will pop in here with a script shortly, but that's basically the gist of it.
posted by ktkt at 7:26 PM on October 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
tenants carry along with them all sorts of laws depending on your jurisdiction. If he has a lease, you could let it run out, and not renew it for him, depending on your local laws. If thats a long time, and you prefer not to wait, you could offer him money to leave early.
If its more casual or month to month, then its in that human relations category of question i have no advice about, other than you should investigate what rights your tenants have, so you can stay on the safe side.
posted by TheAdamist at 7:26 PM on October 7, 2014
If its more casual or month to month, then its in that human relations category of question i have no advice about, other than you should investigate what rights your tenants have, so you can stay on the safe side.
posted by TheAdamist at 7:26 PM on October 7, 2014
Are you on good enough terms with your ex to discuss this with her? It's possible as she was better friends with K that she can either act as a go-between or at least give you advice on how to approach him. In the event that she is a go-between I would not have her contact him without you present, or it would look passive-aggressive; but having her present might make it possible to open a discussion without him feeling like you are taking out frustration with the divorce /anger at your ex on him by asking him to leave.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:27 PM on October 7, 2014
posted by caution live frogs at 7:27 PM on October 7, 2014
You've put this under human relations, but a lot is going to depend on where you're located and if you have a lease, and this is really more of a legal question. As a tenant, even without a lease, he's going to have certain rights, which no one can help you with without knowing where you are. The standard advice here is to talk to a lawyer.
From a human relations standpoint, I'd just talk to the guy, and certainly give him plenty of notice before he has to be out, but again, IANAL, IANYL, and you need to find out what the laws are where you are.
posted by Weeping_angel at 7:27 PM on October 7, 2014
From a human relations standpoint, I'd just talk to the guy, and certainly give him plenty of notice before he has to be out, but again, IANAL, IANYL, and you need to find out what the laws are where you are.
posted by Weeping_angel at 7:27 PM on October 7, 2014
I feel that this a situation that really calls for polite, face saving lie.
Say you want to talk to him. That the divorce has been really hard on you and you know this is horribly unfair of you, but having him around just reminds you too much of your ex and the good times you had and all that you lost. Tell him you realize you are being ridiculous and you thought the feeling would past, but it just isn't and you feel that you need a totally clean slate to move on. Apologize profusely and tell him that if he needs a few months or his deposit back early that's fine, but you really need him to move out.
posted by whoaali at 7:30 PM on October 7, 2014 [82 favorites]
Say you want to talk to him. That the divorce has been really hard on you and you know this is horribly unfair of you, but having him around just reminds you too much of your ex and the good times you had and all that you lost. Tell him you realize you are being ridiculous and you thought the feeling would past, but it just isn't and you feel that you need a totally clean slate to move on. Apologize profusely and tell him that if he needs a few months or his deposit back early that's fine, but you really need him to move out.
posted by whoaali at 7:30 PM on October 7, 2014 [82 favorites]
It seems like what you're looking for is a kind way to explain why you want him out of the house. I would frame it around the fact that, since he only moved in because of his friendship with your ex, his presence in the house is a painful reminder of your divorce/separation from your wife. Maybe explain that you are trying to move into a new phase, and you want to make a clean break from the things/people that were part of your old life as a couple. I assume this is all at least somewhat true.
Be generous about giving him time to find a new place, since this might be unexpected, but definitely give him a deadline for moving out and stick to it. You can negotiate this with him, give him a couple of months if he says he really needs them, but make sure there's a date.
posted by fermion at 7:35 PM on October 7, 2014 [6 favorites]
Be generous about giving him time to find a new place, since this might be unexpected, but definitely give him a deadline for moving out and stick to it. You can negotiate this with him, give him a couple of months if he says he really needs them, but make sure there's a date.
posted by fermion at 7:35 PM on October 7, 2014 [6 favorites]
I work with va repossessed homes. Some of them have tenants. In certain circumstances the va offers these people "cash for keys"; in other words, money to move. Would this be an option for you?
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:35 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:35 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
When I bought my current condo, I moved in with my then-roommate and then-boyfriend. Boyfriend then became husband. Roommate was still there. Roommate became an issue - privacy, messiness, etc. We didn't know how to ask him to move out because he was a generally decent person. Finally we just said "hey, we want to live alone" and he said "ok, can I have a couple of months to save up to move?" and all was well.
That said, look up any relevant tenant laws in your area, but you may just be able to ask him to find a new place and it might be fine.
posted by bedhead at 8:43 PM on October 7, 2014
That said, look up any relevant tenant laws in your area, but you may just be able to ask him to find a new place and it might be fine.
posted by bedhead at 8:43 PM on October 7, 2014
"Hey K, it's time for you to move on. You've been a great housemate, I'd just like to live with folks I feel closer to. Take as long as you need to find a place—up to three months, but sooner is better, OK?"
One of the great things about loud guys who like pro wrestling is that they tend not to get butthurt about stuff like this. Hopefully it will be no big deal.
posted by ottereroticist at 8:53 PM on October 7, 2014 [7 favorites]
One of the great things about loud guys who like pro wrestling is that they tend not to get butthurt about stuff like this. Hopefully it will be no big deal.
posted by ottereroticist at 8:53 PM on October 7, 2014 [7 favorites]
As others have said, first take a look at your landlord-tenant laws in your jurisdiction. Start by figuring out if you are legally a landlord -- in a lot of places, a renter who shares a kitchen and/or bath with the homeowner is not legally a tenant and has far fewer protections. I'm not suggesting this so that you can evict him, because that is obviously not how you want to start, but so that you know if you can evict him if he doesn't want to go.
Be prepared to offer a generous amount of time (say 3 months, which is 1 more month than is typical notice in a formal rental situation) or until the end of his current lease for him to leave. Be prepared to offer cash to help him with first/last elsewhere if you think that might be necessary (cash for keys, basically).
Then, I think you probably just need to come out and ask. Dave is not going to become a different person, so there's no way to negotiate his presence in the house into one that's okay with you. You are not treating him unfairly as long as you give him plenty of time to find a new place to live. People who rent rooms in other people's houses occasionally have to move. It isn't fair or unfair, it just is.
"Dave, when Jane was here, it was great to have you here, but I think we've probably both noticed since she left that we're not a great personality fit as roommates. It's not something that needs to happen immediately, but I think it's time for you to find somewhere else to live." Then go from his reaction in terms of negotiating a date, any cash or foregone months of rent you might be able to offer, etc.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:55 PM on October 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
Be prepared to offer a generous amount of time (say 3 months, which is 1 more month than is typical notice in a formal rental situation) or until the end of his current lease for him to leave. Be prepared to offer cash to help him with first/last elsewhere if you think that might be necessary (cash for keys, basically).
Then, I think you probably just need to come out and ask. Dave is not going to become a different person, so there's no way to negotiate his presence in the house into one that's okay with you. You are not treating him unfairly as long as you give him plenty of time to find a new place to live. People who rent rooms in other people's houses occasionally have to move. It isn't fair or unfair, it just is.
"Dave, when Jane was here, it was great to have you here, but I think we've probably both noticed since she left that we're not a great personality fit as roommates. It's not something that needs to happen immediately, but I think it's time for you to find somewhere else to live." Then go from his reaction in terms of negotiating a date, any cash or foregone months of rent you might be able to offer, etc.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:55 PM on October 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
Have you and M talked to K about how his behaviours affect the two of you? Because even though it sounds like K won't ever be a perfect fit, many of the things that bug you about him are totally legitimate grievances. Roommates work through these kinds of issues all the time, and it's OK to ask him to change his behaviours.
For example: "His conversation is mostly a series of rants, full of remarks which are as horrifying as they are funny, and when he's talking you can hear him from the far end of the house." What I'm hearing here is that (1) he's a serious noise disturbance and (2) the content of his conversation bothers you. It's OK to ask M to keep his voice down, and to avoid intemperate remarks when he's around you.
If M improves his ways, then you're getting a home life that's closer to what you want without needing to give M the boot. If he's still a bull, then you've communicated about your problems, and it won't be as hard to ask him to leave. Maybe he'll even get the hint and look for a new place on his own.
posted by Banknote of the year at 9:04 PM on October 7, 2014
For example: "His conversation is mostly a series of rants, full of remarks which are as horrifying as they are funny, and when he's talking you can hear him from the far end of the house." What I'm hearing here is that (1) he's a serious noise disturbance and (2) the content of his conversation bothers you. It's OK to ask M to keep his voice down, and to avoid intemperate remarks when he's around you.
If M improves his ways, then you're getting a home life that's closer to what you want without needing to give M the boot. If he's still a bull, then you've communicated about your problems, and it won't be as hard to ask him to leave. Maybe he'll even get the hint and look for a new place on his own.
posted by Banknote of the year at 9:04 PM on October 7, 2014
If you rent a room in a house in which the owner landlord lives, you expect to have to move at some point sooner rather than later. Now is the time.
posted by 724A at 9:32 PM on October 7, 2014
posted by 724A at 9:32 PM on October 7, 2014
I guess I'm hearing a totally different question than others are, not just how to communicate this to him, but that part of you doesn't really want to do it. I would say at least give him two months, which I don't consider to be "plenty of time", really. I usually start thinking about moving way more than two months ahead of time, and if I was comfortable and feeling at home in a place I'd want way more than two months. Maybe talk to him about what makes it easier for him? Giving him more time might be a compromise with yourself. You're just trying to avoid having him still there years from now right? I don't think there's any way around that you might hurt his feelings. Just be really nice to him. You want a different kind of environment so it's not like you dislike him personally and hopefully he'll see that. You won't be treating him unfairly if you consider him, but you might if you just do what ever your lease allows you to do, regardless.
posted by Blitz at 9:33 PM on October 7, 2014
posted by Blitz at 9:33 PM on October 7, 2014
You're his landlord, you're his housemate, but you're not his friend, right? So - give him notice. You don't owe him an explanation, you owe him whatever the law in your area says about fair notice of end of tenancy, and about returning deposits. If you're in an area that does landlord references, assure him you'll give him a good reference, and move on.
It's your house. You don't have to live with anyone you don't choose, and you don't have to provide an explanation of your housemate's bad fit with your lifestyle (and indeed I'd discourage one - telling someone why you don't like them is hurtful and pointless when it's something harmless and unmodifiable.)
"Circumstances have changed, and I have some new plans for your room."
posted by gingerest at 9:53 PM on October 7, 2014 [7 favorites]
It's your house. You don't have to live with anyone you don't choose, and you don't have to provide an explanation of your housemate's bad fit with your lifestyle (and indeed I'd discourage one - telling someone why you don't like them is hurtful and pointless when it's something harmless and unmodifiable.)
"Circumstances have changed, and I have some new plans for your room."
posted by gingerest at 9:53 PM on October 7, 2014 [7 favorites]
Whoaali's got it.
posted by klangklangston at 9:58 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by klangklangston at 9:58 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
I like whoaali's idea, but be prepared for the possibility that he'll see right through it.
One of the great things about loud guys who like pro wrestling is that they tend not to get butthurt about stuff like this.
That has not been my experience. Sometimes aggro guys like this can go psycho on you. I'm not saying he will, but seriously, be prepared for anything. It may be a good idea to break the news to him in a semi-public place, or come up with a justification for having some other people in the house when you talk to him.
You're not guaranteed to get hit with a lot of drama, but be prepared for bad drama. There may not be any way to get through this without feeling like a jerk and/or really upsetting the guy.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:05 AM on October 8, 2014
One of the great things about loud guys who like pro wrestling is that they tend not to get butthurt about stuff like this.
That has not been my experience. Sometimes aggro guys like this can go psycho on you. I'm not saying he will, but seriously, be prepared for anything. It may be a good idea to break the news to him in a semi-public place, or come up with a justification for having some other people in the house when you talk to him.
You're not guaranteed to get hit with a lot of drama, but be prepared for bad drama. There may not be any way to get through this without feeling like a jerk and/or really upsetting the guy.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:05 AM on October 8, 2014
Don't agonize and don't make excuses.
"Dude, thanks for being my tenant for the past couple of years. I'm making some changes here so I'd like to give you notice to move out. I can be flexible, what works for you one or two months?"
That should do it.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:59 AM on October 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
"Dude, thanks for being my tenant for the past couple of years. I'm making some changes here so I'd like to give you notice to move out. I can be flexible, what works for you one or two months?"
That should do it.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:59 AM on October 8, 2014 [5 favorites]
Just give him lots of notice, that should (TINLA) cover you legally, and karmicly too. You don't owe this guy a permanent place to live forever.
In calculating how much notice to give, take into account whatever your legal relationship is (lease? month-to-month?), and also consider the weather where you live. Three months from today will be the beginning of January. That is a crappy time to move in many places in the world. Maybe you need to give him 6 months so that he can choose the move in the spring?
When you talk to him, propose your timeline, and be open to him reasonably wanting to extend it. When it comes time to move, be flexible with him as far as things like exact move out dates -- maybe he can't get into a new place until the 1st of the month, so it would be helpful for him if he didn't have to completely vacate your place until the 3rd or 4th (without having to pay extra rent).
posted by sparklemotion at 7:31 AM on October 8, 2014
In calculating how much notice to give, take into account whatever your legal relationship is (lease? month-to-month?), and also consider the weather where you live. Three months from today will be the beginning of January. That is a crappy time to move in many places in the world. Maybe you need to give him 6 months so that he can choose the move in the spring?
When you talk to him, propose your timeline, and be open to him reasonably wanting to extend it. When it comes time to move, be flexible with him as far as things like exact move out dates -- maybe he can't get into a new place until the 1st of the month, so it would be helpful for him if he didn't have to completely vacate your place until the 3rd or 4th (without having to pay extra rent).
posted by sparklemotion at 7:31 AM on October 8, 2014
Renters (especially young, non-elderly renters) don't expect to stay in a given apartment/house until they die. Sure, moving can be annoying, but it's part of life as a renter and is not the end of the world. Although it's good to know the laws in your area, I think this can probably be approached, at least initially, as a friendly conversation. I wouldn't get into a big conversation about how you don't like his personality or you think he's too messy or doesn't eat as nice of food as you -- even those most tolerant of people will take offense at that approach. I'd just say something along the lines of "It was great to have you here since you were such a good friend of my ex's, but I need to move on from my shared life with her and as part of that I think it would be better if we were not roommates any longer. How can we make this work for both of us?" Be willing to negotiate the exact move-out date and I don't think it will be overly awkward. I've been part of asking someone to move out of a shared house when NONE of us owned the place (several students living together, one person whose personality was just a terrible fit), and it went fine...a little awkward, but no major drama in the end. I think if you approach it casually and with low drama, you have a good chance of it turning out okay.
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:46 AM on October 8, 2014
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:46 AM on October 8, 2014
Hey, Roomie, one of my oldest friends is moving to Town in 3 months and looking for a place. I've appreciated having you for a roommate, but I really want to live with my old friend. If you see him and he asks you about it after moving out, you can always say that your 'friend's' plans changed, got a job offer in Alaska, met a new sweetie in the old home town, whatever. I usually recommend the truth, but in this case, a harmless lie would be kinder and useful.
posted by theora55 at 12:24 PM on October 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 12:24 PM on October 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jaguar at 7:24 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]