How would you characterize these behaviors?
September 7, 2014 8:11 AM Subscribe
I got a gym membership and was referred to a personal trainer/CrossFit coach. While a nice guy, and helpful, he has displayed some weird and annoying behavior.
Early on he good gamed me out the blue during a workout. I wasn't in shape but he regularly cussed me for stopping when tired and would verify that I threw up, when I told him that's what I was doing. He likes to say he doesn't hate my guts but knows I can do what he expects. He got where he would critique my form, even when training other clients during their session. I entered the gym as he was with a client one day and he was staring dead at me. He didn't break his gaze until I was out of his view. A separate time when I waited to work with him, he came in the room and said, "Good morning, Sunshine."
I've gotten compliments from him on a new haircut, and he gets physical. First, it started that he'd pat my shoulders or chest but eventually, he started putting his hand on my back or side, or have me push him to demonstrate a balance technique or he would simply come up and hug me or ask for a hug. His behavior has always been weird, considering he's married. There are tons of other things he has done. Do you think his intent was to run me off?
Early on he good gamed me out the blue during a workout. I wasn't in shape but he regularly cussed me for stopping when tired and would verify that I threw up, when I told him that's what I was doing. He likes to say he doesn't hate my guts but knows I can do what he expects. He got where he would critique my form, even when training other clients during their session. I entered the gym as he was with a client one day and he was staring dead at me. He didn't break his gaze until I was out of his view. A separate time when I waited to work with him, he came in the room and said, "Good morning, Sunshine."
I've gotten compliments from him on a new haircut, and he gets physical. First, it started that he'd pat my shoulders or chest but eventually, he started putting his hand on my back or side, or have me push him to demonstrate a balance technique or he would simply come up and hug me or ask for a hug. His behavior has always been weird, considering he's married. There are tons of other things he has done. Do you think his intent was to run me off?
I would categorize them as unprofessional and dangerous (you should not be vomiting during a workout), and I would stop paying him money to grope and hurt me.
posted by jaguar at 8:21 AM on September 7, 2014 [40 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 8:21 AM on September 7, 2014 [40 favorites]
Bummer, you've found an unprofessional trainer, who thinks that because you're friendly to him in this particular context he can be over-familiar with you. the touching is not cool and you should speak up to him about it if it makes you uncomfortable. he may not realize that is crossing a boundary.
This: "I wasn't in shape but he regularly cussed me for stopping when tired and would verify that I threw up, when I told him that's what I was doing," concerns me because if he's training you his job is to push you while also being aware of safety and injury prevention. Making you puke is not doing his job well, and I don't care how hardcore he is trying to be/how the Crossfit culture plays into this.
Do you know what pukey, fatigued people do in the middle of a workout, even if they are in shape? Their form and agility slips, since they're pukey and fatigued, and then they get hurt. Once hurt they stop training while they recover, and they lose their gains in endurance and/or put the weight back on that they might have just lost. Eff that. A good trainer knows to minimize that risk while still getting results. Because it's counterproductive! If necessary set boundaries about how hard you'll push yourself and ignore his teasing.
If I were you I'd ask to work with another trainer in the gym if possible and then limit my interaction with him. Blandy polite hello/goodbye but definitely no hugs or touching.
posted by zdravo at 8:22 AM on September 7, 2014 [6 favorites]
This: "I wasn't in shape but he regularly cussed me for stopping when tired and would verify that I threw up, when I told him that's what I was doing," concerns me because if he's training you his job is to push you while also being aware of safety and injury prevention. Making you puke is not doing his job well, and I don't care how hardcore he is trying to be/how the Crossfit culture plays into this.
Do you know what pukey, fatigued people do in the middle of a workout, even if they are in shape? Their form and agility slips, since they're pukey and fatigued, and then they get hurt. Once hurt they stop training while they recover, and they lose their gains in endurance and/or put the weight back on that they might have just lost. Eff that. A good trainer knows to minimize that risk while still getting results. Because it's counterproductive! If necessary set boundaries about how hard you'll push yourself and ignore his teasing.
If I were you I'd ask to work with another trainer in the gym if possible and then limit my interaction with him. Blandy polite hello/goodbye but definitely no hugs or touching.
posted by zdravo at 8:22 AM on September 7, 2014 [6 favorites]
For whatever it's worth, I'm really creeped out by your description of this guy. You have this internet stranger's permission to stop working with him if he makes you uncomfortable.
posted by horizons at 8:22 AM on September 7, 2014 [20 favorites]
posted by horizons at 8:22 AM on September 7, 2014 [20 favorites]
I would characterize them as abusive, sadistic, and dangerous. I would find out whether he holds any certifications, and report him to the certifying body. I would also report him to the gym and let them know that he is endangering the safety of their members and that he was harassing you in an inappropriate manner.
posted by decathecting at 8:23 AM on September 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by decathecting at 8:23 AM on September 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
I did Crossfit for a bit, and it really seemed like there were two kinds of gyms- those who would work with you as you were and try to help you become your best self, and those who would try to employ boot camp-esque psychological torture in a misguided attempt to remold you into a Crossfit machine. The latter are unprofessional dickbags, and they will eventually hurt you by coaching you to ignore your own body telling you to stop.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:24 AM on September 7, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:24 AM on September 7, 2014 [11 favorites]
Most of this sounds like badass/hardass persona, which you either respond well to or don't.
Mixing that up with asking for hugs? Comical, good material for a TV show, but not a good sign for you. He'll keep escalating the touching until you do or say something. Find a new trainer now and skip that part of the story.
posted by mattu at 8:33 AM on September 7, 2014
Mixing that up with asking for hugs? Comical, good material for a TV show, but not a good sign for you. He'll keep escalating the touching until you do or say something. Find a new trainer now and skip that part of the story.
posted by mattu at 8:33 AM on September 7, 2014
Response by poster: Due to early contract termination fees that exceed what I can afford, I stayed with this gym. He is the only instructor for the class I needed but the gym knew his behavior but didn't seem able to quell it and in some ways encouraged it.
posted by Brainytexan at 8:56 AM on September 7, 2014
posted by Brainytexan at 8:56 AM on September 7, 2014
I would raise a holy stink about not being able to drop the gym when you're being sexually harassed by an instructor there.
posted by jaguar at 9:09 AM on September 7, 2014 [14 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 9:09 AM on September 7, 2014 [14 favorites]
Your state attorney general's office may have some consumer protection resources related to gyms/health clubs that might help you get out of your membership penalty-free and/or jolt them into doing something about this trainer.
posted by Schielisque at 9:10 AM on September 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Schielisque at 9:10 AM on September 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: In a particularly humiliating instance, he informed me that I was leaning too far forward while performing squats. He came, stood in front of me and told me to do them. I had to move him to the side but he re-positioned his body in front of mine.
posted by Brainytexan at 9:16 AM on September 7, 2014
posted by Brainytexan at 9:16 AM on September 7, 2014
Yeah, document the hell out of that. Maybe talk up other gym members and see if anyone else is concerned about his behavior, make a record of every instance of behavior that has made you uncomfortable, and take these things to gym management. I wouldn't be surprised if they just let you quietly out of your contract to avoid making a fuss.
This is of course assuming that leaving is what you want. Maybe it's not, maybe you like this gym and you don't want to stop going just because of an asshole, which I understand. In that case I'd still document, just in case you eventually have to take it to management, but maybe start yelling back? The trainer/trainee relationship can be a really odd one at times because in a way you are paying this person to tell you what to do, so maybe this particular trainer is taking advantage of being put in a position where he gets to tell you what to do. He does not. He gets to tell you what he WANTS you to do. You get to decide if you want to do it. "Gimme a hug?" "No." "Punch me" "No". " Do squats in front of me." "Either move to the side or I'm leaving the gym."
I would be prepared for push back on this and I would take care that we were only doing workouts with a full gym and lots of people around. It really sucks that this asshole is getting in the way of your goals and your doing what you want with your body. But if you want to stick it out at this gym, changing the power dynamic, whether or not it changes his behavior, should help you to feel less victimized by this jerk.
posted by theweasel at 9:46 AM on September 7, 2014
This is of course assuming that leaving is what you want. Maybe it's not, maybe you like this gym and you don't want to stop going just because of an asshole, which I understand. In that case I'd still document, just in case you eventually have to take it to management, but maybe start yelling back? The trainer/trainee relationship can be a really odd one at times because in a way you are paying this person to tell you what to do, so maybe this particular trainer is taking advantage of being put in a position where he gets to tell you what to do. He does not. He gets to tell you what he WANTS you to do. You get to decide if you want to do it. "Gimme a hug?" "No." "Punch me" "No". " Do squats in front of me." "Either move to the side or I'm leaving the gym."
I would be prepared for push back on this and I would take care that we were only doing workouts with a full gym and lots of people around. It really sucks that this asshole is getting in the way of your goals and your doing what you want with your body. But if you want to stick it out at this gym, changing the power dynamic, whether or not it changes his behavior, should help you to feel less victimized by this jerk.
posted by theweasel at 9:46 AM on September 7, 2014
Do you think his intent was to run me off?
I think his intent is to have these role-play fantasy interactions with you. He probably has a personal narrative in which he "takes care of" all the people in "his" gym, and the place would fall apart without him, he's very valuable, very good at his job etc etc.
Your choices are to stop going but keep paying until your contract is up, confront him in hopes of getting him to back off, talking to gym management to get him to back off, or talking to gym management to get your money back.
I personally would choose the final option, explaining that the guy doesn't understand boundaries, personal space, etiquette (or the personal or gym variety), and gets off (use those exact words) on this super-trainer/dominant thing to the point that you are no longer interested in ever being in the gym the same time as him, so you'll be leaving and they'll be waiving any associated fees unless they have a reasonable counter-offer for making the gym safe for you. (Maybe they just need one more complaint to finally boot the guy, maybe you will be the final straw for them.)
I myself would not accept "oh, we'll tell him to cool it" as an option, as he should know how to be cool without being told, and how many times have they let this slide already so that he knows there's no consequences? No, being punished for getting him in trouble going forward is not an acceptable solution.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:25 AM on September 7, 2014 [5 favorites]
I think his intent is to have these role-play fantasy interactions with you. He probably has a personal narrative in which he "takes care of" all the people in "his" gym, and the place would fall apart without him, he's very valuable, very good at his job etc etc.
Your choices are to stop going but keep paying until your contract is up, confront him in hopes of getting him to back off, talking to gym management to get him to back off, or talking to gym management to get your money back.
I personally would choose the final option, explaining that the guy doesn't understand boundaries, personal space, etiquette (or the personal or gym variety), and gets off (use those exact words) on this super-trainer/dominant thing to the point that you are no longer interested in ever being in the gym the same time as him, so you'll be leaving and they'll be waiving any associated fees unless they have a reasonable counter-offer for making the gym safe for you. (Maybe they just need one more complaint to finally boot the guy, maybe you will be the final straw for them.)
I myself would not accept "oh, we'll tell him to cool it" as an option, as he should know how to be cool without being told, and how many times have they let this slide already so that he knows there's no consequences? No, being punished for getting him in trouble going forward is not an acceptable solution.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:25 AM on September 7, 2014 [5 favorites]
I wasn't in shape but he regularly cussed me for stopping when tired and would verify that I threw up, when I told him that's what I was doing.
This is as much as you needed to write. Sure, document and cite the unwanted touching if it helps you get out of the contract, but for the purpose of deciding whether to continue with this trainer, I think this statement alone should be all you need.
zdravo is totally right that it is not effective or necessary to train to the point of vomiting in the context of a CrossFit -style workout, especially if you're lifting.
I know some dedicated runners who talk about vomiting after workouts or races, but they universally consider this a bad thing which they do either accidentally ("oops, guess I shouldn't ramp up that fast") or very rarely in competition ("I was half a step behind him...!"). But that's running, where you're not trying to move a couple hundred pounds of steel through a very precise path. I know of no lifters who exercise to the point of vomiting, probably because those guys are all injured and can't lift any more.
Also, is this one of those CrossFit places that does high-volume, low-weight sets with highly technical lifts? There are some CrossFit places where people try to snatch 25% of their 1RM, thirty times in a row at a 5 second cadence. That's just crazy, and correlates well to other kinds of craziness like what you report here.
posted by d. z. wang at 11:02 AM on September 7, 2014
This is as much as you needed to write. Sure, document and cite the unwanted touching if it helps you get out of the contract, but for the purpose of deciding whether to continue with this trainer, I think this statement alone should be all you need.
zdravo is totally right that it is not effective or necessary to train to the point of vomiting in the context of a CrossFit -style workout, especially if you're lifting.
I know some dedicated runners who talk about vomiting after workouts or races, but they universally consider this a bad thing which they do either accidentally ("oops, guess I shouldn't ramp up that fast") or very rarely in competition ("I was half a step behind him...!"). But that's running, where you're not trying to move a couple hundred pounds of steel through a very precise path. I know of no lifters who exercise to the point of vomiting, probably because those guys are all injured and can't lift any more.
Also, is this one of those CrossFit places that does high-volume, low-weight sets with highly technical lifts? There are some CrossFit places where people try to snatch 25% of their 1RM, thirty times in a row at a 5 second cadence. That's just crazy, and correlates well to other kinds of craziness like what you report here.
posted by d. z. wang at 11:02 AM on September 7, 2014
Response by poster: More than once I addressed not only him but management as well. Problems would subside for a while before it was business as usual. Lyn Never, summed him up perfectly. Management is afraid to lose what they consider their most valuable employee. I was told I needed to show him respect because he feels I have a lot of potential. After one day when he cussed me out so bad and loudly that the entire gym could hear him.
The General Manager threatened to suspend me for 5 days although it was clear to all who witnessed the incident that it was a monologue, on his part. I attempted each exercise he wanted done, without question. I told them I pay monthly membership fees like everyone else who uses the club and the offer was unacceptable. I was adamant to quit over one problem person who was basically given the authority to train me how he wanted. When I can't perform to his standard, he threatens to throw me out of the gym, or calls me a "pussy."
Strangely enough, he sometimes sits close and stares longingly while asking am I okay, or he'll ask how my weekend was. I have to always step away from him because of the odd feeling. When he is treating me like shit, he'll say, "We love you. I know we don't act like it."
"Also, is this one of those CrossFit places that does high-volume, low-weight sets with highly technical lifts? There are some CrossFit places where people try to snatch 25% of their 1RM, thirty times in a row at a 5 second cadence. That's just crazy, and correlates well to other kinds of craziness like what you report here."
That is exactly the case.
I think if there becomes a problem with the remaining balance on my account, I will write corporate and explain everything. Management said I would be released from further payment but did not provide documentation for the resolution when I requested it in December.
posted by Brainytexan at 11:26 AM on September 7, 2014
The General Manager threatened to suspend me for 5 days although it was clear to all who witnessed the incident that it was a monologue, on his part. I attempted each exercise he wanted done, without question. I told them I pay monthly membership fees like everyone else who uses the club and the offer was unacceptable. I was adamant to quit over one problem person who was basically given the authority to train me how he wanted. When I can't perform to his standard, he threatens to throw me out of the gym, or calls me a "pussy."
Strangely enough, he sometimes sits close and stares longingly while asking am I okay, or he'll ask how my weekend was. I have to always step away from him because of the odd feeling. When he is treating me like shit, he'll say, "We love you. I know we don't act like it."
"Also, is this one of those CrossFit places that does high-volume, low-weight sets with highly technical lifts? There are some CrossFit places where people try to snatch 25% of their 1RM, thirty times in a row at a 5 second cadence. That's just crazy, and correlates well to other kinds of craziness like what you report here."
That is exactly the case.
I think if there becomes a problem with the remaining balance on my account, I will write corporate and explain everything. Management said I would be released from further payment but did not provide documentation for the resolution when I requested it in December.
posted by Brainytexan at 11:26 AM on September 7, 2014
if you spoke with them and they did not resolve it or make a good faith effort to do so, this is a situation where i would not be above "losing" the debit/credit card they have on file (unless you are electronic balance transferring from a checking account), getting a new card with a new number, and fucking right off without worrying about getting charged for termination fees. this guy is definitely not doing his job and is putting you in danger.
posted by zdravo at 11:39 AM on September 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by zdravo at 11:39 AM on September 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Get in touch with corporate pronto. The local management's refusal to fire him is an outrage.
posted by brujita at 12:05 PM on September 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by brujita at 12:05 PM on September 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: The monthly dues were drawn from my debit card, which is now cancelled. I decided not to replace it or update it with them.
I'm going to contact them along with the licensing agencies for the certifications. These have all been helpful answers. I couldn't gain perspective while going through all of it and I was confused.
posted by Brainytexan at 12:43 PM on September 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
I'm going to contact them along with the licensing agencies for the certifications. These have all been helpful answers. I couldn't gain perspective while going through all of it and I was confused.
posted by Brainytexan at 12:43 PM on September 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
"he good gamed me out the blue"
What does this mean?
And, are you male?
posted by JimN2TAW at 1:32 PM on September 7, 2014
What does this mean?
And, are you male?
posted by JimN2TAW at 1:32 PM on September 7, 2014
Response by poster: Good gaming is hitting someone in the ass. Everybody finished an indoor exercise, then started out to run outside. I took it as an accidental bump initially, but when adding everything up, it seemed less an accident.
"And, are you male?"
Yes.
posted by Brainytexan at 1:57 PM on September 7, 2014
"And, are you male?"
Yes.
posted by Brainytexan at 1:57 PM on September 7, 2014
Just chiming in with all the others, to an outsider this looks like abusive harassment, or sexual harassment.
posted by JimN2TAW at 8:20 PM on September 7, 2014
posted by JimN2TAW at 8:20 PM on September 7, 2014
To me this is unprofessional and abusive. Being a "nice guy" and overly friendly some of the time and pushing boundaries by getting touchy-feely is just manipulative and probably makes you feel like you have to go along with it so as to not get him angry and yelling again, right? But there's nothing you can do - he is the problem. Anyway, don't risk serious physical injury trying to do really challenging exercises as fast as you can while an abusive asshole is cursing at you.
posted by citron at 9:12 PM on September 7, 2014
posted by citron at 9:12 PM on September 7, 2014
Who gives a crap what his intent is? He sounds like a macho ass, and he makes you uncomfortable. Get a new trainer.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:18 AM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:18 AM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
He worked you until you puked? Find another trainer and complain to the gym manager. That's not healthy.
posted by mibo at 4:34 AM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by mibo at 4:34 AM on September 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: The issue with a new trainer is that he is the only one at the gym who teaches what I needed. I was at the class portion, long before he was. His supervision says he is a good trainer and eventually increased his responsibilities within the fitness club. He holds at least 3 titles between that club and another. When problems took place it was always turned around on me, although he was clearly the issue. I felt since I was being ganged up on, they will sell corporate the same pitch, outnumbering me.
In fact, I feel management contributed to the problem. I came to workout on my personal time, the GM comes to get me and say this trainer is having me work out with him that day. So I didn't have much choice but go work out with him and he's taking his shirt off. Anytime I express concern over how I'm being treated, I'm "Giving lip," and told by him to shut up, or "I'm the trainer."
I even brought my fiancee, hoping his manners would improve in front of a woman. He approaches her, asking how do we know each other, how we met and saying, "If you ever need to know anything about him, just ask me. I hope you're okay with me yelling at him, because well, that's just how it is."
I could never shake him. He'd say while training me, "I'm going to give you a hard time about not counting your reps correctly, the rest of your life."
Even as he held class late, he'd say, "Stay in touch. I want you to call me once you move and thank me for everything I've done for you."
I told him his wife was home, waiting for him and he said she was okay.
As I was speaking to the receptionist, having a personal chat, he comes in the room and says, "What are you grinning about? Why are you messing up those papers?"
Even in talking to other members, a guy and I were having a joke, he comes up, "What are you smiling at, boy?"
So it's been complex for me and weird at times. I have since relocated but I feel there should be some reconciliation to the bad things I was forced to put up with.
posted by Brainytexan at 4:55 AM on September 8, 2014
In fact, I feel management contributed to the problem. I came to workout on my personal time, the GM comes to get me and say this trainer is having me work out with him that day. So I didn't have much choice but go work out with him and he's taking his shirt off. Anytime I express concern over how I'm being treated, I'm "Giving lip," and told by him to shut up, or "I'm the trainer."
I even brought my fiancee, hoping his manners would improve in front of a woman. He approaches her, asking how do we know each other, how we met and saying, "If you ever need to know anything about him, just ask me. I hope you're okay with me yelling at him, because well, that's just how it is."
I could never shake him. He'd say while training me, "I'm going to give you a hard time about not counting your reps correctly, the rest of your life."
Even as he held class late, he'd say, "Stay in touch. I want you to call me once you move and thank me for everything I've done for you."
I told him his wife was home, waiting for him and he said she was okay.
As I was speaking to the receptionist, having a personal chat, he comes in the room and says, "What are you grinning about? Why are you messing up those papers?"
Even in talking to other members, a guy and I were having a joke, he comes up, "What are you smiling at, boy?"
So it's been complex for me and weird at times. I have since relocated but I feel there should be some reconciliation to the bad things I was forced to put up with.
posted by Brainytexan at 4:55 AM on September 8, 2014
He's a dick and gym management is on his side. I don't think you're going to get reparation from them. In this case, the best case scenario is leave, never deal with him again, and get revenge by living well. He'll find a new target, and I bet you that in five years, the gym isn't doing well because they mysteriously keep losing customers, and have no idea why.
posted by RogueTech at 10:28 AM on September 8, 2014
posted by RogueTech at 10:28 AM on September 8, 2014
What?! Find a whole new gym. It's a for-profit gym, not the Army. Neither the trainer's behavior nor the management's response is within normal parameters. Is it a franchise? Is there an owner separate from management? It might not only ease your need for reconciliation but be of great interest to them that their employees are driving business away.
posted by mibo at 7:15 PM on September 8, 2014
posted by mibo at 7:15 PM on September 8, 2014
So it's been complex for me and weird at times. I have since relocated but I feel there should be some reconciliation to the bad things I was forced to put up with.
This isn't as complex as you are making it seem. Gym and trainers are your service providers. They work for you. You didn't like their service (because it was terrible, apparently). You complained, they handled that complaint poorly. As a consequence, you no longer purchase their services. This is the normal order of such things.
Write management a letter explaining that you left because of the terrible trainer and their terrible complaint handling. Leave a scathing review on Yelp or whatever. Then forget about this, because it's not worth worrying about now that it's done.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:13 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
This isn't as complex as you are making it seem. Gym and trainers are your service providers. They work for you. You didn't like their service (because it was terrible, apparently). You complained, they handled that complaint poorly. As a consequence, you no longer purchase their services. This is the normal order of such things.
Write management a letter explaining that you left because of the terrible trainer and their terrible complaint handling. Leave a scathing review on Yelp or whatever. Then forget about this, because it's not worth worrying about now that it's done.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:13 PM on September 8, 2014 [2 favorites]
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posted by colin_l at 8:17 AM on September 7, 2014 [5 favorites]