best friends + ex's = DOOM?
November 2, 2005 11:45 PM Subscribe
This has been killing me.... my best friend (we call each other brother) is now seeing my ex girlfriend.
She and I broke up in July after a long distance relationship found me moving 400 miles away to be with her this past June. Timeshift to late September/early October. She fairly suddenly fell for him bad, and he and I got together one night where I gave him my blessing for them to see each other & he really wanted to hit it. He was happy with this but was insistent on me understanding that "if I said the word, he'd never talk to her again." After seeing them on their first night of lovey-dovey-ness, I realized that this arrangement disgusted me.
Sadly, I had moved to be with her and was living in her apartment. After a day or two, since she and I were still friendly, I let her know this. Her reply, to quote "if you tell him his & fuck this up for me, I'll kick you out to the curb at the end pf the month and make you wish you never moved to this city!" Blackmail! She knew I was moving in 3 weeks and needed 3 weeks to be able to afford the move; the end of the month was barely a week away. I dealt with the blackmail, moved back 3 weeks later, and then told him my feelings.
3 weeks was too long, and it seems he's fallen into her trap. I can't even think of my brother now without the horrible mental image of them fucking... it literally makes me vomit. And since he's a good friend, I think of him often... ad nauseum... no pun intended. I can't even talk to him without getting sick.
Question: Do I have any right to be angry? Should I just get over this? This really disgusts & repulses me. WTF is wrong with me?
She and I broke up in July after a long distance relationship found me moving 400 miles away to be with her this past June. Timeshift to late September/early October. She fairly suddenly fell for him bad, and he and I got together one night where I gave him my blessing for them to see each other & he really wanted to hit it. He was happy with this but was insistent on me understanding that "if I said the word, he'd never talk to her again." After seeing them on their first night of lovey-dovey-ness, I realized that this arrangement disgusted me.
Sadly, I had moved to be with her and was living in her apartment. After a day or two, since she and I were still friendly, I let her know this. Her reply, to quote "if you tell him his & fuck this up for me, I'll kick you out to the curb at the end pf the month and make you wish you never moved to this city!" Blackmail! She knew I was moving in 3 weeks and needed 3 weeks to be able to afford the move; the end of the month was barely a week away. I dealt with the blackmail, moved back 3 weeks later, and then told him my feelings.
3 weeks was too long, and it seems he's fallen into her trap. I can't even think of my brother now without the horrible mental image of them fucking... it literally makes me vomit. And since he's a good friend, I think of him often... ad nauseum... no pun intended. I can't even talk to him without getting sick.
Question: Do I have any right to be angry? Should I just get over this? This really disgusts & repulses me. WTF is wrong with me?
You said he could hit it with your ex whilst you were living in her apartment? Christ. Well, good thing she was so nice about it.
You should have told him to wait until you were out, at least.
I think the only possible solution here is time. Get out of both of their lives for a while. Your friend is still a good guy, and he at least asked your permission (although that never really works), so I'm not sure I blame him much. Just explain to him what's going on in your head, be sure to tell him you don't blame him, and then get the fuck out of there.
Come back in a while to see your brother, but really mate - there's no way to get over this while they're both still around you.
posted by metaculpa at 11:53 PM on November 2, 2005
You should have told him to wait until you were out, at least.
I think the only possible solution here is time. Get out of both of their lives for a while. Your friend is still a good guy, and he at least asked your permission (although that never really works), so I'm not sure I blame him much. Just explain to him what's going on in your head, be sure to tell him you don't blame him, and then get the fuck out of there.
Come back in a while to see your brother, but really mate - there's no way to get over this while they're both still around you.
posted by metaculpa at 11:53 PM on November 2, 2005
Response by poster: Well, the hit it thing was agreed upon that he'd wait until I left.
Your advice echoes what I'm thinking, but damn, I guess it hurts either way.
posted by starscream at 12:00 AM on November 3, 2005
Your advice echoes what I'm thinking, but damn, I guess it hurts either way.
posted by starscream at 12:00 AM on November 3, 2005
The literal gut reaction you're having -- the nausea, the feelings of vomiting, words like sicken/disgust/repulse -- reminds me of a very physical reaction to deep, painful emotion. I used to react similarly (for many years) to really serious anxiety or grief -- I'd gag, dry heave, sometimes actually vomit. The problem, for me, was that I wasn't processing the actual feelings -- I couldn't (for various reasons) admit I was sad or angry (in fact, I constantly told myself I "didn't have the right" to ever feel angry or sad!), and so I couldn't actually express that sadness or anger in any authentic way (e.g., cry, yell, punch a pillow), so my body expressed the pain in another way.
What I'm saying is that of course, you have every right to feel angry -- anger's simply a feeling, there's no "right" or "wrong" to it. You also have the right to feel sad -- you lost your girlfriend! To the man you consider your brother! In front of your eyes! You may be feeling shocked, betrayed, helpless, scared, lonely -- all sorts of pain. This is a big deal. It sucks. It hurts. It'll take time to heal. I'm sorry you're hurting so much.
posted by scody at 12:01 AM on November 3, 2005
What I'm saying is that of course, you have every right to feel angry -- anger's simply a feeling, there's no "right" or "wrong" to it. You also have the right to feel sad -- you lost your girlfriend! To the man you consider your brother! In front of your eyes! You may be feeling shocked, betrayed, helpless, scared, lonely -- all sorts of pain. This is a big deal. It sucks. It hurts. It'll take time to heal. I'm sorry you're hurting so much.
posted by scody at 12:01 AM on November 3, 2005
No one said being a grownup was easy, and you do not have to like this. No need to beat yourself up; you're a human, not an automaton.
Philosophically, Aristotle tells us that the virtuous fall into two categories, those who are naturally inclined to virtue, and those who are inclined to vice but practise virtue through self-discipline. Most of us are in the second class.
As long as you're committed to being a man of your word, I'd suggest binge drinking, trips out of town, and casual sex with near strangers. Make whatever excuses you need to maintain your personal space and avoid the happy couple until you've calmed down.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:09 AM on November 3, 2005 [2 favorites]
Philosophically, Aristotle tells us that the virtuous fall into two categories, those who are naturally inclined to virtue, and those who are inclined to vice but practise virtue through self-discipline. Most of us are in the second class.
As long as you're committed to being a man of your word, I'd suggest binge drinking, trips out of town, and casual sex with near strangers. Make whatever excuses you need to maintain your personal space and avoid the happy couple until you've calmed down.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:09 AM on November 3, 2005 [2 favorites]
You screwed up by giving him your "blessing" but he's not much of a friend for doing in the first place.
posted by madajb at 12:17 AM on November 3, 2005
posted by madajb at 12:17 AM on November 3, 2005
Response by poster: As long as you're committed to being a man of your word
It's funny you say that, since I take great pains to keep my word, always! It sometimes ends up biting me in my ass, but I still feel better for it. This time though, I really felt that I had to retract my blessing and tried to explain why, but he wouldn't listen.
I'm sad that I had to say that, but I guess I might be even sadder that he didn't keep his end of the bargain. I think this is part of my confusion, because it really isn't cool to hold people to higher standards than what you would hold yourself to. But at the same time this feels a lot like betrayal.
posted by starscream at 12:19 AM on November 3, 2005
It's funny you say that, since I take great pains to keep my word, always! It sometimes ends up biting me in my ass, but I still feel better for it. This time though, I really felt that I had to retract my blessing and tried to explain why, but he wouldn't listen.
I'm sad that I had to say that, but I guess I might be even sadder that he didn't keep his end of the bargain. I think this is part of my confusion, because it really isn't cool to hold people to higher standards than what you would hold yourself to. But at the same time this feels a lot like betrayal.
posted by starscream at 12:19 AM on November 3, 2005
Response by poster: You screwed up by giving him your "blessing" but he's not much of a friend for doing in the first place.
posted by madajb at 12:17 AM PST on November 3
Yeah, damn straight I did. This mistake has cost me much more than I have ever imagined.
posted by starscream at 12:25 AM on November 3, 2005
posted by madajb at 12:17 AM PST on November 3
Yeah, damn straight I did. This mistake has cost me much more than I have ever imagined.
posted by starscream at 12:25 AM on November 3, 2005
Years from now, many years from now, you and he will be drinking beers and laughing about this.
But right now, you need to cut both of them out of your life, completely, for a good long time. Move out, make new friends, keep busy, see someone new. But cut off al contact. Don't feel like you have to explain, you don't, you can't. Just take care of yourself.
posted by LarryC at 12:32 AM on November 3, 2005
But right now, you need to cut both of them out of your life, completely, for a good long time. Move out, make new friends, keep busy, see someone new. But cut off al contact. Don't feel like you have to explain, you don't, you can't. Just take care of yourself.
posted by LarryC at 12:32 AM on November 3, 2005
Shot or hung. If you hadn't given your blessing they both would have hated you.
Here's the thing: your blessing don't mean shit to the stars. Yeah, we can tell ourselves it's the adult thing to do and they can tell themselves it's the adult thing to ask, but that's besides the point. And the point is that adults, like all creatures, do whatever brings them the most pleasure. We all move towards what we think will make us happy.
What will make you happy in this scenario? Accept--don't think it, don't say, "yeah", don't deny it--ACCEPT that you are the only person that controls what you think, say, feel, and do. As Eleanor Roosevelt said, "No one can make you miserable without your consent."
It won't be easy but you've got to move past this. Do it however you need to. Don't talk to them till you know it's past if that's what it takes. Suck it up and play happy if that's what it takes. But realize that your friend and your ex are, for now at least, a couple, and there's nothing you can do about it. And that's the way it should be.
Are you right for feeling angry? There's no right and wrong in this equation. You're not feeling angry, you're being angry. Choosing to be, whether you admit it or not. Choose to be something else.
Lastly, time heals all wounds. The cliche is true. Yeah, there are exceptions and I know that while I was going thru those exceptions it was nice to tell myself that I was going thru them, but with hindsight, I can't remember exactly what those exceptions were. Time heals ALL wounds.
posted by Manhasset at 12:32 AM on November 3, 2005
Here's the thing: your blessing don't mean shit to the stars. Yeah, we can tell ourselves it's the adult thing to do and they can tell themselves it's the adult thing to ask, but that's besides the point. And the point is that adults, like all creatures, do whatever brings them the most pleasure. We all move towards what we think will make us happy.
What will make you happy in this scenario? Accept--don't think it, don't say, "yeah", don't deny it--ACCEPT that you are the only person that controls what you think, say, feel, and do. As Eleanor Roosevelt said, "No one can make you miserable without your consent."
It won't be easy but you've got to move past this. Do it however you need to. Don't talk to them till you know it's past if that's what it takes. Suck it up and play happy if that's what it takes. But realize that your friend and your ex are, for now at least, a couple, and there's nothing you can do about it. And that's the way it should be.
Are you right for feeling angry? There's no right and wrong in this equation. You're not feeling angry, you're being angry. Choosing to be, whether you admit it or not. Choose to be something else.
Lastly, time heals all wounds. The cliche is true. Yeah, there are exceptions and I know that while I was going thru those exceptions it was nice to tell myself that I was going thru them, but with hindsight, I can't remember exactly what those exceptions were. Time heals ALL wounds.
posted by Manhasset at 12:32 AM on November 3, 2005
If you told him to drop her, and he didn't keep his word, then he's made his choice.
Now you have to make yours.
Either suck it up and learn to live with them together or move on.
If it makes you feel better about the choice you need to make:
My best bud(friends for coming up on 20 years) has been through 3 wives, all of whom hated my guts.
We'd go years or more without hanging out together, but in the end, they're all gone, and we're still buds.
Good friendships are like that.
posted by madajb at 12:38 AM on November 3, 2005 [1 favorite]
Now you have to make yours.
Either suck it up and learn to live with them together or move on.
If it makes you feel better about the choice you need to make:
My best bud(friends for coming up on 20 years) has been through 3 wives, all of whom hated my guts.
We'd go years or more without hanging out together, but in the end, they're all gone, and we're still buds.
Good friendships are like that.
posted by madajb at 12:38 AM on November 3, 2005 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Good friendships are like that.
Good advice, I appreciate that.
Just out of curiosity, was there any bad blood between you two that might've been caused by the wives?
posted by starscream at 12:44 AM on November 3, 2005
Good advice, I appreciate that.
Just out of curiosity, was there any bad blood between you two that might've been caused by the wives?
posted by starscream at 12:44 AM on November 3, 2005
Man, you're in a bad spot. You have my sympathy, but it's worth nothing. The only thing that helps is time. And falling in love with somebody else. It may seem impossible now, but it will happen.
posted by keijo at 1:41 AM on November 3, 2005
posted by keijo at 1:41 AM on November 3, 2005
I should also mention thaty it's his birthday tomorrow. I've gotta call. But seriously, for once.... I really don't want to.
It takes a lifetime to find a man you can call brother.
It takes a few successful dates to find a woman you can call girlfriend.
If you are calling each other brother then he has earned birthday wishes and you really should rejoice the day of his birth.
The distress he is inadvertently causing you now is a few grains of sand in the hourglass of your brotherhood. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you are glad that he was born.
Call your brother now and wish him a happy birthday.
Call him now.
Read this after calling your brother:
"if you tell him his & fuck this up for me, I'll kick you out to the curb at the end of the month and make you wish you never moved to this city!"
Judging by her poor treatment of a person in her care (and at her mercy), her coarse language and her idle threats, it sounds like this ex-girlfriend is no prize (to put it generously). What will happen when the novelty of their sex wears off and your brother takes off the rose-tinted glasses? He will behold the poverty of her character, recall the way she treated a man he calls brother and their relationship will end.
Your relationship with your brother, on the other hand, ends when either of you dies.
posted by cup at 2:00 AM on November 3, 2005 [1 favorite]
It takes a lifetime to find a man you can call brother.
It takes a few successful dates to find a woman you can call girlfriend.
If you are calling each other brother then he has earned birthday wishes and you really should rejoice the day of his birth.
The distress he is inadvertently causing you now is a few grains of sand in the hourglass of your brotherhood. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you are glad that he was born.
Call your brother now and wish him a happy birthday.
Call him now.
Read this after calling your brother:
"if you tell him his & fuck this up for me, I'll kick you out to the curb at the end of the month and make you wish you never moved to this city!"
Judging by her poor treatment of a person in her care (and at her mercy), her coarse language and her idle threats, it sounds like this ex-girlfriend is no prize (to put it generously). What will happen when the novelty of their sex wears off and your brother takes off the rose-tinted glasses? He will behold the poverty of her character, recall the way she treated a man he calls brother and their relationship will end.
Your relationship with your brother, on the other hand, ends when either of you dies.
posted by cup at 2:00 AM on November 3, 2005 [1 favorite]
You screwed up by giving him your "blessing"
I disagree. If you truly care about someone, you'd want them to be with whomever makes them happy. When that person isn't us, it hurts a lot (which in turn will manifest into other emotions like anger; both are human reactions like i_am_joe's_spleen said).
In the meantime, keep yourself distracted. Move out of that apartment. Becoming more independent wouldn't hurt either. I always tell people after they separate with someone that they should never hang out with their ex until they're ready to hang out with their ex's new significant other too. Otherwise, hang in there.
posted by spiderskull at 2:03 AM on November 3, 2005
I disagree. If you truly care about someone, you'd want them to be with whomever makes them happy. When that person isn't us, it hurts a lot (which in turn will manifest into other emotions like anger; both are human reactions like i_am_joe's_spleen said).
In the meantime, keep yourself distracted. Move out of that apartment. Becoming more independent wouldn't hurt either. I always tell people after they separate with someone that they should never hang out with their ex until they're ready to hang out with their ex's new significant other too. Otherwise, hang in there.
posted by spiderskull at 2:03 AM on November 3, 2005
I'd go with LarryC's advice.
I was actually in your friend's position. My best friend met my current gf first, and immediately had the hots for her. But right from the time I first met her, there was an undeniable chemistry between us. She initially rejected my friend's advances, but acted very warmly towards me, to the point where my friend mentioned that she was obviously very taken with me and asked if I was interested in her. Although I liked her immediately, I wasn't sure whether I wanted to date her (I was on the rebound).
So a few weeks passed, and eventually my friend and the girl got together. Their relationship was rocky from the start -- he liked her a lot, but she was barely tolerating him. She started ditching him early most nights and hanging out with me. Eventually, she was spending more time with me than him, which obviously upset my friend, but because our relationship was still platonic he brought himself to accept it.
Well, you know where this is going. After a couple months of friendship, the girl and I became an item. It was a very confusing time, because we were having this hot and heavy relationship, but it felt like an affair because we kept it from my friend, and she hadn't dumped him yet (although he confided to me that she hadn't slept or even made out with him for several weeks, which coincided with the time we'd been together).
Eventually we couldn't hide it anymore, and I told my friend what had been going on, fully expecting him to punch me in the nose. He didn't hit me, but he was hurt, and he vandalized my car instead. But after a while he admitted the girl and I always seemed like a much more natural fit, and he got over it.
At the time I felt very guilty, but this girl and I had fallen in love with each other, so it wasn't just a case of someone screwing their best friend's girl for a cheap thrill. Years and years have passed, and we're still together, and my friend got over the hurt pretty quickly. He told me we should give him a finder's fee.
This anecdote doesn't help you at all, does it? I guess I'm saying your friend and the ex might end up being together for life and having kids etc., and that should lessen the sting you're feeling, but your friend's motives are suspect because he asked if "he could hit it", and that's not how most people talk about the love of their life.
posted by Devils Slide at 2:11 AM on November 3, 2005
I was actually in your friend's position. My best friend met my current gf first, and immediately had the hots for her. But right from the time I first met her, there was an undeniable chemistry between us. She initially rejected my friend's advances, but acted very warmly towards me, to the point where my friend mentioned that she was obviously very taken with me and asked if I was interested in her. Although I liked her immediately, I wasn't sure whether I wanted to date her (I was on the rebound).
So a few weeks passed, and eventually my friend and the girl got together. Their relationship was rocky from the start -- he liked her a lot, but she was barely tolerating him. She started ditching him early most nights and hanging out with me. Eventually, she was spending more time with me than him, which obviously upset my friend, but because our relationship was still platonic he brought himself to accept it.
Well, you know where this is going. After a couple months of friendship, the girl and I became an item. It was a very confusing time, because we were having this hot and heavy relationship, but it felt like an affair because we kept it from my friend, and she hadn't dumped him yet (although he confided to me that she hadn't slept or even made out with him for several weeks, which coincided with the time we'd been together).
Eventually we couldn't hide it anymore, and I told my friend what had been going on, fully expecting him to punch me in the nose. He didn't hit me, but he was hurt, and he vandalized my car instead. But after a while he admitted the girl and I always seemed like a much more natural fit, and he got over it.
At the time I felt very guilty, but this girl and I had fallen in love with each other, so it wasn't just a case of someone screwing their best friend's girl for a cheap thrill. Years and years have passed, and we're still together, and my friend got over the hurt pretty quickly. He told me we should give him a finder's fee.
This anecdote doesn't help you at all, does it? I guess I'm saying your friend and the ex might end up being together for life and having kids etc., and that should lessen the sting you're feeling, but your friend's motives are suspect because he asked if "he could hit it", and that's not how most people talk about the love of their life.
posted by Devils Slide at 2:11 AM on November 3, 2005
"...she hadn't slept or even made out with him for several weeks, which coincided with the time we'd been together)."
I should note that my current gf stopped having a physical relationship with my friend shortly after she started hanging out with me, not just after we'd slept together. I broke the news to my friend about 10 days after she and I had consumated our relationship, so it's not we were having an affair for several weeks while she was stringing him along.
posted by Devils Slide at 2:47 AM on November 3, 2005
I should note that my current gf stopped having a physical relationship with my friend shortly after she started hanging out with me, not just after we'd slept together. I broke the news to my friend about 10 days after she and I had consumated our relationship, so it's not we were having an affair for several weeks while she was stringing him along.
posted by Devils Slide at 2:47 AM on November 3, 2005
Get rid of them both and move on.
posted by angry modem at 3:05 AM on November 3, 2005
posted by angry modem at 3:05 AM on November 3, 2005
Do whatever you have to do, but MOVE OUT NOW. ***Nothing*** good can come from sitting there in that apartment. Once you move out, give yourself two-three months to settle in/settle down, then you can go back to hanging out with him, if you want. Just tell him the truth, if he's your brother - tell him it's a lot more difficult than you imagined, but you want the best for him and so moving out is a way for everyone to be happy.
posted by pomegranate at 3:53 AM on November 3, 2005
posted by pomegranate at 3:53 AM on November 3, 2005
Well, you both messed up pretty badly. Your friend made a huge mistake by moving in on her, regardless of your blessing. You made an even bigger mistake by giving him the 'OK.' I can't imagine what either of you were thinking. I always thought the 'absolutely no exes' rule was obvious.
Still, this isn't worth losing your friendship. You'll meet somebody else and this girl will become a distant memory. Like LarryC said, one day you'll be laughing at this royal fuckup and you'll be glad your friendship was strong enough to survive it, despite your best efforts.
As for the feelings of nausea, perhaps you need to get everything off your chest. Tell your friend how you feel and don't hold anything back. Do it with a letter if you can't handle the phone. Hopefully, expressing your feelings will let you get a handle on them. Let your friend know that he's still your friend but you can't be around him right now. You'll see him in $X months to work this out. Putting a specific date on the coming reconciliation is usually good for both you and the friendship. Just don't overestimate yourself; if you need six months tell him so.
posted by nixerman at 4:58 AM on November 3, 2005
Still, this isn't worth losing your friendship. You'll meet somebody else and this girl will become a distant memory. Like LarryC said, one day you'll be laughing at this royal fuckup and you'll be glad your friendship was strong enough to survive it, despite your best efforts.
As for the feelings of nausea, perhaps you need to get everything off your chest. Tell your friend how you feel and don't hold anything back. Do it with a letter if you can't handle the phone. Hopefully, expressing your feelings will let you get a handle on them. Let your friend know that he's still your friend but you can't be around him right now. You'll see him in $X months to work this out. Putting a specific date on the coming reconciliation is usually good for both you and the friendship. Just don't overestimate yourself; if you need six months tell him so.
posted by nixerman at 4:58 AM on November 3, 2005
Her reply, to quote "if you tell him his & fuck this up for me, I'll kick you out to the curb at the end pf the month and make you wish you never moved to this city!"
Whoa! I've no idea what exactly went on between you, but if this quotation is any indication of this woman's true character, you may just be better off without her. No matter what the situation, a person should not say this sort of thing to his or her former partner.
Your friend/brother sounds like a good guy. I say just wait this out. Withdraw from both their lives. If possible, cut the woman out of your life completely, but keep a line open to your guy friend. He's going to break up with this girl eventually, ideally sooner rather than later. Judging by the closeness of your friendship, once this woman is out of the picture, you and your brother can have a good relationship once again.
It's going to feel horrible, debilitating, digusting for a while. But it will get better. Whenever I'm in crappy situations like this, I compare it to similar situations in the past. I remember that I did eventually recover; this is consoling.
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 5:58 AM on November 3, 2005
Whoa! I've no idea what exactly went on between you, but if this quotation is any indication of this woman's true character, you may just be better off without her. No matter what the situation, a person should not say this sort of thing to his or her former partner.
Your friend/brother sounds like a good guy. I say just wait this out. Withdraw from both their lives. If possible, cut the woman out of your life completely, but keep a line open to your guy friend. He's going to break up with this girl eventually, ideally sooner rather than later. Judging by the closeness of your friendship, once this woman is out of the picture, you and your brother can have a good relationship once again.
It's going to feel horrible, debilitating, digusting for a while. But it will get better. Whenever I'm in crappy situations like this, I compare it to similar situations in the past. I remember that I did eventually recover; this is consoling.
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 5:58 AM on November 3, 2005
I agree with some of what's been said above. In her own way, she's already given you the best advice. Move as soon as you can. In the meantime, be super nice to them both. Get sugary-sweet about it, even. Put on an act if you have to. Be a classic gentleman, the best friend ever, the greatest roommate, and an all-around nice guy. You'll find, in time, that the hurt will dull and all those behaviors will have made a difference in how you perceive the couple and how you feel about yourself.
This year I had a similar situation. I was living with a gal just as roommates, we became more than that, and it didn't work out. I thought I could handle it if she started seeing other people while we were still roommates. I was wrong. So I did everything within my power to move as soon as possible, and also did what I am advising you above. In the end, she thanked me profusely for what she described as "giving and leaving so much good behind." Now, in the times I've seen the woman since, we're back on old flirty ground. She calls for advice, I've made her dinner, she's invited me to events. We're friendly and affectionate. Though nothing will happen between us again, I still have the friendship of a charming woman. I can't even find the hurt parts of me any more.
posted by Mo Nickels at 5:59 AM on November 3, 2005
This year I had a similar situation. I was living with a gal just as roommates, we became more than that, and it didn't work out. I thought I could handle it if she started seeing other people while we were still roommates. I was wrong. So I did everything within my power to move as soon as possible, and also did what I am advising you above. In the end, she thanked me profusely for what she described as "giving and leaving so much good behind." Now, in the times I've seen the woman since, we're back on old flirty ground. She calls for advice, I've made her dinner, she's invited me to events. We're friendly and affectionate. Though nothing will happen between us again, I still have the friendship of a charming woman. I can't even find the hurt parts of me any more.
posted by Mo Nickels at 5:59 AM on November 3, 2005
lots of good advice above. here's something to think about - what do you believe would happen, or what would it mean to you, if you didn't have your physical reaction (nausea, etc)?
posted by judybxxx at 6:18 AM on November 3, 2005
posted by judybxxx at 6:18 AM on November 3, 2005
Starscream, this very thing happened to me.
It's an awful thing to have to go through. Reading the advice above, I'd say that LarryC is on the mark: eventually you will get through this.
But it will take a long, long time to get to that point. In the meantime, you have to GET OUT OF THERE. You need to get this situation behind you and to do that you need a new environment.
I'd be happy to talk to you more about this, how I eventually worked through it. Please email me if you want to discuss personally.
posted by soiled cowboy at 6:53 AM on November 3, 2005
It's an awful thing to have to go through. Reading the advice above, I'd say that LarryC is on the mark: eventually you will get through this.
But it will take a long, long time to get to that point. In the meantime, you have to GET OUT OF THERE. You need to get this situation behind you and to do that you need a new environment.
I'd be happy to talk to you more about this, how I eventually worked through it. Please email me if you want to discuss personally.
posted by soiled cowboy at 6:53 AM on November 3, 2005
Call him and say "Hey, man, I'm gonna need some time to get over this one, understand? I'm not gonna talk to you for a while. Right now, I'm stuck between being in love with her and realizing that she was a massive bitch to me. I hope that doesn't happen to you. But I gotta get some space for a while. Is that cool? Happy birthday."
Five'll getcha ten that she'll fuck him over royally, and he'll come back to you for sympathy about what an evil woman she is.
posted by klangklangston at 7:17 AM on November 3, 2005
Five'll getcha ten that she'll fuck him over royally, and he'll come back to you for sympathy about what an evil woman she is.
posted by klangklangston at 7:17 AM on November 3, 2005
Response by poster: Thanks for all the thoughtful advice gang! Seems as though there's one small point that I hadn't made clear:
"I dealt with the blackmail, moved back 3 weeks later, and then told him my feelings."
When I say "moved back" I meant moved back to where I was previous to moving in with her. Yes, this is a good thing! :)
posted by starscream at 7:26 AM on November 3, 2005
"I dealt with the blackmail, moved back 3 weeks later, and then told him my feelings."
When I say "moved back" I meant moved back to where I was previous to moving in with her. Yes, this is a good thing! :)
posted by starscream at 7:26 AM on November 3, 2005
I had a similar thing happen to me, except I was the girl. My situation was a little different (perhaps quite a bit different) though. I didn't live with my boyfriend, and I didn't really sleep with his friend, just discussed it in great detail.
Anyway, my boyfriend broke up with me, and a few weeks later I had a few very detailed and descriptive conversations with his friend who had always been attracted to me. I felt awful about it (I was nauseated, in fact), but knew that my boyfriend would be even more upset.
My boyfriend and I stayed extremely good friends, even best friends in the months afterwards. Maybe three or four months after the conversation with his friend had occurred, the two of them went on a road trip and the friend confessed to my boyfriend about the conversation.
My boyfriend was heartbroken, and we were both nauseated, and we could barely talk to each other for months.
Fast forward to today, a couple years later. I am still extremely good friends with the aforementioned boyfriend. He is pretty good friends with his friend still (they ended up sharing an apartment for a while.) I haven't talked to the friend since the incident.
In summary and to repeat what others have said...time will heal the wounds, and I know exactly how you feel.
posted by nekton at 8:05 AM on November 3, 2005
Anyway, my boyfriend broke up with me, and a few weeks later I had a few very detailed and descriptive conversations with his friend who had always been attracted to me. I felt awful about it (I was nauseated, in fact), but knew that my boyfriend would be even more upset.
My boyfriend and I stayed extremely good friends, even best friends in the months afterwards. Maybe three or four months after the conversation with his friend had occurred, the two of them went on a road trip and the friend confessed to my boyfriend about the conversation.
My boyfriend was heartbroken, and we were both nauseated, and we could barely talk to each other for months.
Fast forward to today, a couple years later. I am still extremely good friends with the aforementioned boyfriend. He is pretty good friends with his friend still (they ended up sharing an apartment for a while.) I haven't talked to the friend since the incident.
In summary and to repeat what others have said...time will heal the wounds, and I know exactly how you feel.
posted by nekton at 8:05 AM on November 3, 2005
Starscream, I'm very sorry you had to go through all this. I have a best friend that's like a brother and we've dealt with lots of turmoil over the years, but more than anything, we've agreed a woman will never turn us against each other. Five years from now, or 10, losing the friend will hurt far more than any of the romantic anguish you're feeling about him fucking your ex.
Call him. Wish him happy birthday. Let him know how glad you are to be his friend. Then remind him the relationship with the girl is tearing you up. Tell him you wish he'd have the good sense to end it, but let him know you'll still be his friend no matter what. Take the good advice from these other posters and tell him you may need to keep away from his company for 3 months, 6 months, a year. Then move on, and forgive him and yourself. As for the bitch? Forget about her, wash her out of your thoughts and be glad you're not with such a manipulative blackmailing woman any more.
posted by Happydaz at 8:59 AM on November 3, 2005
Call him. Wish him happy birthday. Let him know how glad you are to be his friend. Then remind him the relationship with the girl is tearing you up. Tell him you wish he'd have the good sense to end it, but let him know you'll still be his friend no matter what. Take the good advice from these other posters and tell him you may need to keep away from his company for 3 months, 6 months, a year. Then move on, and forgive him and yourself. As for the bitch? Forget about her, wash her out of your thoughts and be glad you're not with such a manipulative blackmailing woman any more.
posted by Happydaz at 8:59 AM on November 3, 2005
Choose to look at it as a good thing. You need to get to an emotional point where you can stop being fucked up over exes moving on with their lives. It's harder in this circumstance since she's banging your friend but really, let's be honest with yourself: you have an issue with the fact that she's banging ANYONE and everyone you end a relationship with is going to move on to banging SOMEONE eventually.
Unless you kill them, which I would suggest is a bad plan.
So congrats, you've got a Growth Opportunity. They almost always suck. But you need to learn to Move On when relationships end and part of that is acceptance of things being over and what that means. Another part of it is learning good habits like, say, taking less than four months to find a new place to live once it's over. Or not moving in with someone if you won't be able to leave if it pancakes.
The good news is that you'll get there. If your friend is really a good friend you'll get through this and be friends again. Just don't stew over it. Don't stew over her sleeping with someone else, his sleeping with her, your poor choices, their poor choices, etc. The most important thing is acceptance and it's also the hardest thing. Work at it.
posted by phearlez at 9:28 AM on November 3, 2005
Unless you kill them, which I would suggest is a bad plan.
So congrats, you've got a Growth Opportunity. They almost always suck. But you need to learn to Move On when relationships end and part of that is acceptance of things being over and what that means. Another part of it is learning good habits like, say, taking less than four months to find a new place to live once it's over. Or not moving in with someone if you won't be able to leave if it pancakes.
The good news is that you'll get there. If your friend is really a good friend you'll get through this and be friends again. Just don't stew over it. Don't stew over her sleeping with someone else, his sleeping with her, your poor choices, their poor choices, etc. The most important thing is acceptance and it's also the hardest thing. Work at it.
posted by phearlez at 9:28 AM on November 3, 2005
This happened to me a long time ago. I went through a very nasty nervous breakdown. The only solution was to move far away, not speak to either of them at all, and fill my life with other things.
They eventually split up, but it took me many years to get back to the point where I could be around my friend.
Twenty years later things are cool and the three of us can hang out with no problems. But we never talk about that part of our past. At all. Ever.
In short - Get away. Far away. And start over. Somewhere else.
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:41 AM on November 3, 2005
They eventually split up, but it took me many years to get back to the point where I could be around my friend.
Twenty years later things are cool and the three of us can hang out with no problems. But we never talk about that part of our past. At all. Ever.
In short - Get away. Far away. And start over. Somewhere else.
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:41 AM on November 3, 2005
This happened to me, but my best friend started in on my ex before he was my ex (unbeknownst to me). After he and I broke up, they continued to sneak around for a few weeks before getting caught. It absolutely destroyed me, especially after I learned that she'd also had flings with other exes of mine in the past. I felt completely betrayed by the two people I was closest to at the time. That's a lot to get over. Make sure that you give yourself the time and space and patience to heal.
Ultimately, this ended up being one of the best things to happen to me. I'm so much happier without those two and I've moved on to a much better life. However, I have lost that friend forever. I'm still working through the anger and it's 4 years later. The ex doesn't even register on the radar (it's almost as if he didn't exist). It sounds like you and your friend might still survive this awfulness, and I wish you the best of luck. It's hard losing a friend.
posted by MsVader at 9:48 AM on November 3, 2005
Ultimately, this ended up being one of the best things to happen to me. I'm so much happier without those two and I've moved on to a much better life. However, I have lost that friend forever. I'm still working through the anger and it's 4 years later. The ex doesn't even register on the radar (it's almost as if he didn't exist). It sounds like you and your friend might still survive this awfulness, and I wish you the best of luck. It's hard losing a friend.
posted by MsVader at 9:48 AM on November 3, 2005
You gave permission? That's a mistake. Put yourself in her shoes when she hears that! She'll show ya who gives permission. Hell has no fury... you cant control people, cardinal sin. You probably meant well.
posted by stbalbach at 10:08 AM on November 3, 2005
posted by stbalbach at 10:08 AM on November 3, 2005
Response by poster: Put yourself in her shoes when she hears that!
Actually, the meeting for the blessing was mostly her idea ;)
posted by starscream at 10:13 AM on November 3, 2005
Actually, the meeting for the blessing was mostly her idea ;)
posted by starscream at 10:13 AM on November 3, 2005
May I suggest consulting the timeless wisdom of the great poets.
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:27 AM on November 3, 2005
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:27 AM on November 3, 2005
Just because you gave your permission does not mean that you're required to be OK with it. If you want to hang on to the man of honor idea, then it might mean you're not allowed to actively fuck with their relationship, but you can't promise to feel a certain way, and they shouldn't hold you any pledge that requires that.
posted by occhiblu at 10:46 AM on November 3, 2005
posted by occhiblu at 10:46 AM on November 3, 2005
As far as her being a bitch, I dunno. You "gave permission" (unneeded for an unmarried adult in all cases except as a bad-idea courtesy) to start the relationship. They start the relationship, then in the best part of a new relationship, the initial "falling for him/her" part, you want them to cool it. You are staying in *her* place, and she tells you (harshly, I agree) that if you do mess it up, then her patience is over and you are kicked out. Seriously, wouldn't you do something like that or at least want to? Can you really not see her side of this?
Her side is that a guy she's doing a favor for tries to screw up a new relationship, while still expecting her to be nice and accommodating to him. My read is that she felt like she was doing you a favor, and you imposed on her goodwill by trying to manage her new relationship. The fact that it is with your friend is irrelevant from that perspective.
I'm not trying to say you are wrong to feel angry, just hoping that some empathy and compassion might melt a little of that anger.
posted by Invoke at 10:48 AM on November 3, 2005
Her side is that a guy she's doing a favor for tries to screw up a new relationship, while still expecting her to be nice and accommodating to him. My read is that she felt like she was doing you a favor, and you imposed on her goodwill by trying to manage her new relationship. The fact that it is with your friend is irrelevant from that perspective.
I'm not trying to say you are wrong to feel angry, just hoping that some empathy and compassion might melt a little of that anger.
posted by Invoke at 10:48 AM on November 3, 2005
You did the right thing in giving them the go-ahead. They were going to be into each other anyway, and if you'd created an obstacle, it would probably have intensified their feelings... and led them to lie to you.
What you're feeling right now must be terrible. Definitely not trying to minimize that in any way.
Eventually, these two will split up, and you and your bud will be close again after a while.
Do the right thing for yourself. Honor your pain (sorry, I'm from California) and distance yourself from them. Tell your brother/friend that you feel awful but you wish them well. You lose nothing this way.
They hardly know each other now, even though they think they know each other well. Odds are their relationship will fade. When it does, your pal is going to realize what he's done, realize how magnanimous you've been, and he's going to owe you. Bigtime.
posted by wryly at 10:49 AM on November 3, 2005
What you're feeling right now must be terrible. Definitely not trying to minimize that in any way.
Eventually, these two will split up, and you and your bud will be close again after a while.
Do the right thing for yourself. Honor your pain (sorry, I'm from California) and distance yourself from them. Tell your brother/friend that you feel awful but you wish them well. You lose nothing this way.
They hardly know each other now, even though they think they know each other well. Odds are their relationship will fade. When it does, your pal is going to realize what he's done, realize how magnanimous you've been, and he's going to owe you. Bigtime.
posted by wryly at 10:49 AM on November 3, 2005
Just because you gave your permission does not mean that you're required to be OK with it.
... yes it does.
That is, you may or may not be okay with it, but you are required to act as if you are.
posted by kindall at 11:32 AM on November 3, 2005
... yes it does.
That is, you may or may not be okay with it, but you are required to act as if you are.
posted by kindall at 11:32 AM on November 3, 2005
I just 100% disagree. The fact that people stick to these unrealistic "rules" they set for themselves rather than listening to their feelings... is what leads them to set up the unrealistic rules in the first place.
It doesn't matter what you "should" feel, it matters what you actually feel, and until you pay attention to those feelings rather than trying to rationalize them away, they will control you.
posted by occhiblu at 11:39 AM on November 3, 2005
It doesn't matter what you "should" feel, it matters what you actually feel, and until you pay attention to those feelings rather than trying to rationalize them away, they will control you.
posted by occhiblu at 11:39 AM on November 3, 2005
Man, you two made all kinds of mistakes. He shouldn't have asked. You shouldn't have agreed. You shouldn't have lied afterward. And once you had lied, you shouldn't have told the truth.
It's a train wreck, and you've gone too far for it to be salvaged. You're just going to have to let it play out. The fling probably won't last, and then the gal will be out of your lives forever; but until then, it's going to be hard for everyone involved. Chalk it up as a learning experience; don't dig this hole again.
posted by cribcage at 11:46 AM on November 3, 2005
It's a train wreck, and you've gone too far for it to be salvaged. You're just going to have to let it play out. The fling probably won't last, and then the gal will be out of your lives forever; but until then, it's going to be hard for everyone involved. Chalk it up as a learning experience; don't dig this hole again.
posted by cribcage at 11:46 AM on November 3, 2005
About feeling sick when you think about it. You say that you keep coming to the image of them fucking (not very pleasent). If you want to lower the impact of this image on you right now, then next time you think of it, immediately make it small, dark and far away, and at the same time bring in an image of what you will be like when you are over it and at the next bright, big phase in your life. Do this a few times and it will quite soon happen automatically and allow you to move forward.
In my opinion you learned about yourself and your friends from this situation. What boundaries you need to protect and how much they are willing to respect them.
posted by blueyellow at 12:28 PM on November 3, 2005
In my opinion you learned about yourself and your friends from this situation. What boundaries you need to protect and how much they are willing to respect them.
posted by blueyellow at 12:28 PM on November 3, 2005
starscream -
Just out of curiosity, was there any bad blood between you two that might've been caused by the wives?
The first time around, yeah.
I was somewhat pissed that he'd taken up with the girl and listened to her over me.
I mean, I'd known him for 8 years, she'd known him for 8 days, ya know?
By the 3rd one, it was more irritation, as in "Dude, why don't you marry a girl that actually likes your friends?"
But as someone upthread said, now it's just something we laugh about over a beer.
posted by madajb at 1:41 PM on November 3, 2005
Just out of curiosity, was there any bad blood between you two that might've been caused by the wives?
The first time around, yeah.
I was somewhat pissed that he'd taken up with the girl and listened to her over me.
I mean, I'd known him for 8 years, she'd known him for 8 days, ya know?
By the 3rd one, it was more irritation, as in "Dude, why don't you marry a girl that actually likes your friends?"
But as someone upthread said, now it's just something we laugh about over a beer.
posted by madajb at 1:41 PM on November 3, 2005
klangklangston has got your birthday greeting right. I happen to be in almost this exact situation right now myself, and honey, it sucks. It hurts, and it's going to hurt. This is the 2nd time something like this has happened to me in the last 3 years. #&(%&# small towns. . .
As for the permission thing, well of course you had to give your permission - what else could you do, and anyway, they were going to do it either way, make no mistake. My friend waited to ask for mine until she and my ex had already gotten together - that was kind of a dead giveaway. It was a horrible couple of days. But. I'm not in a position where I can just move, although I kind of wish I could, and I'm getting over it by avoiding them as much as possible: flat refusing to see him and only seeing her by herself and telling her that no, I don't want to hear graphic descriptions of them together and in fact I don't want to know about it. Since you've already moved out, you're doing well. Just try to stay away from them as much as possible and eventually, eventually it will get better and you'll be able to hang out with your friend again. It helped that my friend made me talk to her - I didn't want to, I was going to just tough it out - but she forced me to talk about it and tell her, yes, you have completely upset me, I am angry and hurt and I feel like shit and it's your fault and it's going to take me a long time to get over this, if in fact I ever do. Just telling her helped, which is why I think the birthday greeting is genius.
posted by mygothlaundry at 5:15 PM on November 3, 2005
As for the permission thing, well of course you had to give your permission - what else could you do, and anyway, they were going to do it either way, make no mistake. My friend waited to ask for mine until she and my ex had already gotten together - that was kind of a dead giveaway. It was a horrible couple of days. But. I'm not in a position where I can just move, although I kind of wish I could, and I'm getting over it by avoiding them as much as possible: flat refusing to see him and only seeing her by herself and telling her that no, I don't want to hear graphic descriptions of them together and in fact I don't want to know about it. Since you've already moved out, you're doing well. Just try to stay away from them as much as possible and eventually, eventually it will get better and you'll be able to hang out with your friend again. It helped that my friend made me talk to her - I didn't want to, I was going to just tough it out - but she forced me to talk about it and tell her, yes, you have completely upset me, I am angry and hurt and I feel like shit and it's your fault and it's going to take me a long time to get over this, if in fact I ever do. Just telling her helped, which is why I think the birthday greeting is genius.
posted by mygothlaundry at 5:15 PM on November 3, 2005
The fact that people stick to these unrealistic "rules" they set for themselves rather than listening to their feelings...
... is called "integrity."
posted by kindall at 8:18 PM on November 11, 2005
... is called "integrity."
posted by kindall at 8:18 PM on November 11, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
This is weighing heavily upon my heart; thus I bare my heart to the collective wisdom on AskMeFi!
posted by starscream at 11:52 PM on November 2, 2005